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.
02/05/2013 11:20 PM (UTC)
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Nephrite Wrote:
:headache:

How about I change the thread title to "Discussing all things Jade" or something like that and we all start talking other Jade stuff?

I don't know... For example, I loved her Amazonian themed look in Deception and was disappointed it wasn't featured in MK2011. I thought she looked really exotic, smooth and it further set her apart from Kitty and Milly. You know, it gave her a more distinct flavor, so to say. How about you guys?


That'll work, I'm tired of arguing.

I must say I kinda like her MK2011 primary more than the one in Deception. Both are really good costumes, but the one in Deception looks a little weird at certain angles, mostly in the front, to be honest.

The one in MK2011 seems to suit Jade's style and movement, plus it goes well with the whole short-staff, long-staff thing she's got going on.
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RazorsEdge701
02/05/2013 11:27 PM (UTC)
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Nephrite Wrote:
I don't know... For example, I loved her Amazonian themed look in Deception and was disappointed it wasn't featured in MK2011. I thought she looked really exotic, smooth and it further set her apart from Kitty and Milly. You know, it gave her a more distinct flavor, so to say. How about you guys?


I miss her MKD alt the most, the UMK3 remake costume with the ox-horn pigtails. You'd think that costume would've fit perfectly into MK9, what with it being a retelling of 1 thru 3...

Speaking of MKD, anyone else notice that during the Cyberninjas/Sindel attack cutscenes, Jade suddenly has her spear-like MKD staff, but doesn't use it anywhere else, like in gameplay? Might've been a neat touch if they'd actually given her alt costume that staff.
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legoslayer10
02/05/2013 11:46 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Someone who thinks artistic inconsistency, lazy work, and lack-of-attention-to-detail is something that a paid professional "shouldn't take seriously" is exactly the kind of person NRS DOESN'T need more of.
Isn't this under the definition of flaming?

Bottom line: asking what race Jade is is a broad topic. The author did not define race as ethnicity or species, but under nothing. For God's sake, she could be a marathon or 100m by the author's words.
Jade is Edenian. You can't argue that she isn't, and Jade has had dark skin for all eternity, portrayed black or tan, also unarguable against. Edenia is fictional and has undefined ethnicity. Jade, not being of Earthrealm, has unspecified race.
You can't say Li Mei is Asian, as she isn't from Asia. Though having Asian traits, it is impossible to correctly classify her as Asian.
Darrius can't be classified as black, he is Seidan. He has black skin, but his race is not black.
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Nephrite
02/05/2013 11:52 PM (UTC)
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Riyakou Wrote:
I must say I kinda like her MK2011 primary more than the one in Deception. Both are really good costumes, but the one in Deception looks a little weird at certain angles, mostly in the front, to be honest.
The one in MK2011 seems to suit Jade's style and movement, plus it goes well with the whole short-staff, long-staff thing she's got going on.


When it comes to her MK2011 primary costume, I like it too BUT only in the render. In the game it looks like the colors are kind of faded and the V cut reveals way too much of her chest. Also, as Jaded-Raven pointed out so many times, the chains are glued to her legs in the game. So, the transition from the render to the game didn't go to well I'd say. A possible explanation could be that they wanted to make her skin darker in the game than in the render and so maybe they darkened the entire model to get her skin color closer to what it used to be and in the process the costume colors lost the shine. :?:


RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
I miss her MKD alt the most, the UMK3 remake costume with the ox-horn pigtails. You'd think that costume would've fit perfectly into MK9, what with it being a retelling of 1 thru 3...


It seems to me like that's the most beloved Jade look (especially the hairstyle), at least that's the impression I got from various Jade related discussions here on MKO. I like it too and you're right about it fitting better considering the story direction. I'm just a big fan of the Amazonian look so that's why I miss it a lot. I guess her MK2011 primary as it is (but with better in-game execution) and her MKD alt would have made a good combination for MK2011. But then she'd lack an un-masked look so that's a new problem lol.

I just hope the Amazonian look gets back one day (not sure how long we'll have to wait to see Jade again).

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Speaking of MKD, anyone else notice that during the Cyberninjas/Sindel attack cutscenes, Jade suddenly has her spear-like MKD staff, but doesn't use it anywhere else, like in gameplay? Might've been a neat touch if they'd actually given her alt costume that staff.


Now that you brought this up, I actually remember seeing the MKD staff, but never really paid much attention to it. Heh... I think she has it in the scene where Sindel is coming in with a monster scream and she's using the staff (impaled in the ground?) to hold on and not get blown away.

While it would have been nice to see that one added in the game I think they would then need to change her throw animation (and possibly some other moves too) since she uses the "staff-extending move" in her throw.

Oh how I'd love to see classic MK2/UMK3 fans to go along with Kitana's retro skins. And there's no animation issues here either...
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RazorsEdge701
02/06/2013 12:03 AM (UTC)
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legoslayer10 Wrote:
Isn't this under the definition of flaming?


Not really. What I said was that I don't think someone with a "don't take it so seriously" attitude is good enough to work for a team that I want to see more attention-to-detail from.

If you think that's insulting enough to be called flaming, you should hear the stuff I keep to myself...

And I actually would argue that Darrius is a "Black Seidan".

I would also argue that Tuvok from Star Trek: Voyager is a "Black Vulcan" (Not to be confused with the Superfriend of the same name...)

And speaking of Superfriends, Superman comics a couple times have referenced "Black Kryptonians" existing before the planet blew up. I think some of them survived in the Bottle City of Kandor and were roaming around on Earth during the "World of New Krypton" arc.

But honestly, there's no further point debating the matter. Riyakou's long since made his mind up and everyone else, myself included, is tired of talking about it.
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RazorsEdge701
02/06/2013 12:07 AM (UTC)
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Nephrite Wrote:
I guess her MK2011 primary as it is (but with better in-game execution) and her MKD alt would have made a good combination for MK2011. But then she'd lack an un-masked look so that's a new problem lol.


I would've straight-up ditched both her MK9 costumes, personally. Primary would be the UMK3 w/ ox-horns and Alt would be the Amazonian unmasked look.

She doesn't need that Slave Leia outfit at all, and the UMK3 costume would make the MK9 Primary somewhat redundant, and both serve the story much better. Her UMK3 look works perfectly for her time as Kahn's assassin in a retelling of MK2 and 3, and her MKD primary makes her look much more like an Edenian rebel fighting a guerilla war against Kahn's invading forces than the Slave Leia business, which...y'know...makes her look like a belly-dancing sex slave.
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legoslayer10
02/06/2013 12:14 AM (UTC)
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Oops, sorry 'bout that. My Wii just take FOREVER to type on.
So many references...
*lightheaded*
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Icebaby
02/06/2013 12:48 AM (UTC)
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I understand that the topic has now been changed, and with that, I will continue my argument referring to the topic of this thread.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Tell me how it's NOT lazy to get skin color wrong on an alternate costume so that it doesn't match the others.


It wouldn't be considered lazy to get skin color wrong, it would be considered a "mistake that was not caught and fixed." Or, it could obviously be intentional. Who knows, they know, we wouldn't. So of course, our inability to actually get through a creator's head is the reason why we don't have the answers, just assume and automatically going with the answer that most tend to believe.

Jade's skin changes, big deal. There could be a plausible explanation for that, or simply the answer that I posted two pages back that those who work on her may not remember what tone they used during the previous games. Maybe it's a new art team, who knows. The same could be said as to why Kitana's fans change size per render she has. I've made a thread complaining about the sizes of her fans changing every single game.

Lara Croft has changed numerous times, to even a point where she has to be completely remodeled. Hey, guess what, THAT COULD BE THEIR REASONING BEHIND JADE'S APPEARANCE! REMODELING!!!

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Tell me how it's not lazy to cheap out on who gets retro DLC and who doesn't based entirely on which would take the least amount of work to do? (Only ninjas get them because palette swapping is way quicker than making whole new costumes. Smoke doesn't get an MK3 alt and a character who wasn't invented until MK9 does, because giving him one would require changing his voice clips and blood color. MK3 Sub-Zero isn't even wearing the right costume, they just took the UMK3 ninja palette swap outfit and put a different head on it.)


Personally, I never cared for DLC costumes, and I don't have any kind of reference to this thread to use in defense. Oh, I'm lazy!

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
legoslayer10 Wrote:
Isn't this under the definition of flaming?


Not really. What I said was that I don't think someone with a "don't take it so seriously" attitude is good enough to work for a team that I want to see more attention-to-detail from.


(*What he doesn't know, details are my specialty when it comes to character sketches*) wink

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Tell me what there is to defend there. Tell me why I'm wrong to use the word "lazy". What word would YOU use instead, to describe a situation where an artist CHOSE to do what was quick and easy instead of correcting a visual error?


I don't have any one word to use to describe because I don't work for Netherrealm Studios. I don't know what they do every single day, and their behind the scenes in the extras for Deadly Alliance certainly doesn't show me everything. I'm not a creator of Mortal Kombat, but I can at least defend something that I enjoy. You obviously have a different view, but you have this horrible, shitty, fucked up ability to not accept other people's different views because you're Mr. Right. I don't see what they do is lazy, I see various other ways, whether or not people are going to believe me or stick on my side.

So Jade's skin changes. Oh well, it happens, and I'm not that bothered by it because it's not that significant to where I hate the creators in every shape and form. It's skin tone, something that gets covered by blood in this game. It's not that serious to me... of course, this makes me less of a serious artist because I'm not taking "character development" as serious as you are. Well, screw you, I have other views on what I find interesting and take to a serious degree rather than bitching about some tone color that changes per game. I'd rather have them work more on getting their hair animation work properly rather than having them stick to a define brown-color tint for Jade's skin. That is my reasoning behind why I don't take what you take seriously.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
And tell me how you can, with a straight face, both defend them for doing these things AND say to me that you take art as seriously as I do?


I can't make a straight face to you because you cannot see it through a computer screen. I know you take art seriously, and it's insulting to me that you think I don't, just because of the things I talk about on this site. That is the most retarded thing ever, and I can't believe you actually have the nerve to judge me and how I take art seriously based on this entire discussion. You sicken me. This is the only time I will ever get down to a personal degree and call you out. You have NO right to judge me and how I take art because you do not know me. I don't want you to know me on a personal degree. But I don't EVER want the way I take art insulted by a complete stranger.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
You are a hypocrite.


You are too, says the person who got off-topic and bitched at another user for thinking what they said was off-topic. No, I'm not a hypocrite. YOU don't know who I am, nor do I feel like I need to tell you who I am and how I take art. The only thing I will mention is that for twenty-one years, I've been an artist, and throughout those years, I've developed my artistic ability in a way where I don't fuck around with it, proud to show it off, and will always be willing to accept criticism. DO NOT judge me when it comes to art, because you don't know who the hell I am.

Jade's skin color will most likely be changed, and I'm going to laugh if it's another color by next game, with the exception of her zombified state, since obvious reasoning is obvious. But if she has color, I will laugh if it's changed, because I'd rather see that than Kitana's atrocious hair animation flying like it did in the latest game.

Disgusting. All I can say for their hair animation, develop a new program that has it making hair animation move more swiftly and fluently, such as how Pixar did it in Brave. Sure, it might take a while, but hey, if they actually did so, I'd be very impressed and give a standing ovation once I see it. And hey, they'd be considered a team that isn't oh-so lazy, as to one may seem.
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RazorsEdge701
02/06/2013 02:07 AM (UTC)
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Icebaby Wrote:
It wouldn't be considered lazy to get skin color wrong, it would be considered a "mistake that was not caught and fixed."


I define "not catching a mistake", and "catching a mistake but not taking the time to fix it", as acts of laziness.

It's irresponsible and unprofessional not to check your work, or to let an inconsistency go by unresolved.

I'm not even talking about whether Jade is the same color in MK9 that she was in Deception or something like that in this example. I'm talking about different costumes in the same game not matching. I've done similar work before. All of the files and texture maps and stuff for the game would probably, or at least should have been right on the artist's computer or some shared development server, easy to access, and it would take mere minutes at most to open them, compare them, and adjust the color in spots with the right program.

Icebaby Wrote:
Or, it could obviously be intentional.


Having a character's features not match from one skin to the next in the same game on purpose is even worse than doing it by accident.

Icebaby Wrote:
Lara Croft has changed numerous times


Yes, from one game to the next. Characters are sometimes deliberately re-imagined, especially as graphics get richer and the developers can add more detail than they could in previous titles.

But have there been Tomb Raider games where she has a different face or different skin color in two different skins in the SAME game?

If so, then I'd call it the same thing I call it when it happened in MK9: lazy and irresponsible on the part of the artists, who should have caught and corrected that mistake.

Icebaby Wrote:
Personally, I never cared for DLC costumes, and I don't have any kind of reference to this thread to use in defense.


Well you're the one who said it bothered you when I called them out for not giving Smoke a DLC MK3 alt because it would've taken more work than the Cyber-Sub one did. How can you attack my comment if you admit you don't know or care as much about the matter as I do? That does not make sense.

Icebaby Wrote:
I know you take art seriously, and it's insulting to me that you think I don't


Y'know what I find insulting? When you defend professionals who made mistakes and had enough time to spot them and clean them up, but didn't.

I'm offended when you tell me you care as much as I do, then criticize me for caring too much, then point out all the things you don't care about, and don't notice that you've just contradicted yourself.

I'm offended when you accuse me of not tolerating differing opinions, even though YOU are the one who criticized ME first for using the word "lazy" to describe something that I have good reasons to consider to be negligent, unfinished work that took the easy way out.

So yeah, for doing those things, I call you a hypocrite.

Icebaby Wrote:
You have NO right to judge me and how I take art because you do not know me.


Don't criticize me for going off about work that I can prove is below a reasonable standard, and I won't criticize your commitment to art and attention to detail.
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Icebaby
02/06/2013 04:25 AM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
I define "not catching a mistake", and "catching a mistake but not taking the time to fix it", as acts of laziness.

It's irresponsible and unprofessional not to check your work, or to let an inconsistency go by unresolved.


If that's how you interpret, fine, have that as your reasoning. I, on the other hand, view it differently, and I HATE how you keep saying it's wrong when even YOU don't have all the answers.

I've stated this once before in the past, and it continues to get shot down, and I expect it to get shot down by you, but I really don't care. Is the fact that this is their first game after a company bought them. Things obviously changed for this company. Things work differently with them, and they probably either had little time to go back and correct or just made a mistake and not catch something that needed corrected.

It's called "try again next time," and next time is obviously Injustice. Show off what they can do so that they can improve everything with the next Mortal Kombat. They're trying new stuff obviously, maybe they're not familiar with what they're working with. This is how I see it, and if you disagree, fine, you disagree. But don't shut me down or insult me because I'm looking at different standpoints than you are.


RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Well you're the one who said it bothered you when I called them out for not giving Smoke a DLC MK3 alt because it would've taken more work than the Cyber-Sub one did. How can you attack my comment if you admit you don't know or care as much about the matter as I do? That does not make sense.


I never said that it bothered me, I was pointing out that YOU were calling the team lazy when I don't find them doing anything lazy with costumes. I never wrote that. So you're either not reading my posts clearly, or you just keep putting words in my mouth that I never wrote.

I don't sit and look at the character viewer and see all the stuff they did on their 3D models. I don't do that. So if you catch something that's inconsistent, good for you. Take note of that, and I'm sure someone will get back to you. I, on the other hand, just don't look at video games like that. And I'm not sure how that's being a horrible artist or need to insult me for being an artist by not taking the time to look at 3D renders in the video game. There's art sites on the internet that I go on to look at works of art, that's what I do.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Y'know what I find insulting? When you defend professionals who made mistakes and had enough time to spot them and clean them up, but didn't.


A perfect example are the Cubs. I love the Cubs, they are professional baseball players, in case you don't watch sports. They make mistakes all the time, and they're professionals, the best of the best when it comes to baseball. They could have easily caught balls, throw guys out, slide into bases faster, but you know? They make mistakes. We cannot expect everyone to be perfect, and THAT'S why I defend people. Because I don't expect them to be perfect all the time. It's impossible to be perfect. I don't know a single human being on this planet that is completely perfect with everything.

Therefore, I defend Netherrealm Studios. You might think this is stupid, well I don't.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
'm offended when you tell me you care as much as I do, then criticize me for caring too much, then point out all the things you don't care about, and don't notice that you've just contradicted yourself.


I criticized you for telling you to calm down about one's opinion that you thought was wrong and started going ape shit on them when they were contributing to the thread. That's ALL that I did, until you started harassing me, and once I feel offended, I have the RIGHT to defend myself.

And the ONLY thing I pointed out was that I don't take video games to a serious extent, because they're video games, and that I don't care for extra costumes.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
I'm offended when you accuse me of not tolerating differing opinions, even though YOU are the one who criticized ME first for using the word "lazy" to describe something that I have good reasons to consider to be negligent, unfinished work that took the easy way out.


The thing is, you never tolerate anyone's opinions that differs from yours. You have to be so goddamn technical with everything, it's hard to have a friendly conversation with you. You start to act like a child as soon as someone starts thinking differently than you. Riyakou's post is a clear example of how frustratingly annoying you got all because he stated something different. And what's funny, the creator still has yet to come back onto this thread to make a statement about it.


RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Don't criticize me for going off about work that I can prove is below a reasonable standard, and I won't criticize your commitment to art and attention to detail.


And I have my work to show in my signature as well, even though it's not completed. It's more of a work in progress that I'm slowly working on so it can be the best of the best I can show off once it's finished.

And if you criticize that I show off unfinished work... I'll just leave this left to be assumed what could happen.

I'm going to bed now, and to be honest, I'm somewhat done arguing. If there's another post talking back, my tendency to get the last laugh will obviously come out, but I really am tired of arguing with you mainly because I can never get anything I say through to you because, as I've stated before, you're Mr. Right. You know EVERYTHING... when all you're doing is just being one big jerk.
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RazorsEdge701
02/06/2013 05:41 AM (UTC)
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Icebaby Wrote:
You have to be so goddamn technical with everything, it's hard to have a friendly conversation with you.


Well not every conversation can BE friendly.

Sometimes, when people say ignorant and potentially offensive things, like, oh, just for example, "hispanics can't be black"...some outrage and hostility ought to be expected from the other side, because, y'know, that's an ignorant and potentially offensive thing to say. I'd MUCH rather be seen as "childish" or "a jerk" than be the guy who tells dark-skinned people of varying origins whether or not they're allowed to call themselves "black". That seems a little outright racist to me, I dunno. Now, that ain't your fault, that was someone else...but it happened and you didn't exactly stay neutral.

Not to mention that you and I already have had a history of arguing for a long time now, so it's not like we can talk to each other with a fresh start and no bias, we're probably just never going to get along with each other.

If you really want to have a friendly conversation though, a good start is generally to not get in the middle of a heated argument.

Anyway, back to the "laziness" thing...

Icebaby Wrote:
Is the fact that this is their first game after a company bought them. Things obviously changed for this company. Things work differently with them, and they probably either had little time to go back and correct or just made a mistake and not catch something that needed corrected.


Boon specifically said multiple times during the development of MK9 that UNLIKE when they worked for Midway and released unfinished games because they were rushed, Warner Bros. was giving them all the time they needed to finish and polish the game before putting it out.

And they used that time well. The programmers polished the gameplay so nice the game is now part of the tournament scene for...what, the third year in a row this year? Congratulations well deserved.

...But what were the graphics guys doing while the guys on the gameplay side were catching and tweaking all those little things like they're supposed to?

Well...we've already covered the whole "Jade's skin isn't the same color in her retro costume as it is in her main costumes" thing...

But have you ever noticed how in Scorpion's round 1 win pose, if his back is turned towards the camera, he pulls the wrong sword off his back to twirl around and it looks glitchy? (I think this one might only happen in one of his costumes, not all of them, can't remember for sure. But it does happen.)

Ever play story mode with the subtitles on and notice how in the last cutscene, after Kahn is dead and Raiden is talking about burying the fallen and repairing Earthrealm and all that, the subtitles have suddenly turned black, whereas they've been white the entire game up till then, and are nearly-impossible to read?

Ever notice how when you're fighting the subboss version of Shang Tsung, sometimes when he morphs, the yellow glow that flashes whenever a boss ignores your hits will stay stuck on him until the next time you hit him? This one happens to me once or twice almost every time I fight him, so you can't tell me they've never noticed it.

Ever notice how the team even kept patching the game AFTER it came out, but none of the patches fixed these visual glitches?

The funny thing is, while I'm very nitpicky about still images and character designs because they're easy to stare at and study, I'm not normally the kind of person who notices glitches or errors in games and movies when things are moving. It's just that these ones happen so often when I play the game they're kinda hard to miss.

Ed said they had time...

Icebaby Wrote:
It's called "try again next time," and next time is obviously Injustice.


Yeah, Injustice is off to a great start. I noticed that the latest ad for the Collector's Edition shows that it comes with three exclusive DLC alt costumes: Nu52 Superman, Nu52 Batman, and Nu52 Wonder Woman. It also shows the cover of the steelbook that comes with it, which shows off those exclusive skins: Nu52 Superman, Nu52 Wonder Woman, and...Arkham City Batman?

Promotional art showing the wrong costume. Now where have I seen that before? Hmm...Ahh well. At least there's plenty of time for them to change it before the game comes out. Let's see if they do.
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Nephrite
02/06/2013 12:26 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
I would've straight-up ditched both her MK9 costumes, personally. Primary would be the UMK3 w/ ox-horns and Alt would be the Amazonian unmasked look.


I wouldn't mind that, but I suppose a bunch of fans would then complain about her not getting any new costumes.


RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
And they used that time well. The programmers polished the gameplay so nice the game is now part of the tournament scene for...what, the third year in a row this year? Congratulations well deserved.

...But what were the graphics guys doing while the guys on the gameplay side were catching and tweaking all those little things like they're supposed to?


While they have done the best job so far (I'd say) regarding polishing the gameplay there were/are still numerous issues (input bug, round-end invincibility glitch, combo-reset exploits with Cyrax and Smoke, meter-drain glitch, balance issues, ...). It's the community's passion and devotion that kept the game alive on the tourney scene. After all those shitty (high level gameplay-wise) games, the community finally got a super fun and technically a decent one (far from perfect though) and decided to stick with it. It's understandable, the wait has been so long.

I'd say the graphics/design team did just as well, they didn't do a perfect job, but it was still good. I too am bothered by Jade's different skin-color in her retro costume, disgusted with most of the female costumes and their faces etc. On the other hand, we got some amazing looking arenas, badass designs for male characters etc.

The only ones I'm really displeased with are the story guys. sad

So now that I've got to the story guys and in hope we get back to discussing Jade, what did you guys think of her in MK2011's story mode? Many felt her chapter was unnecessary, yet others enjoyed her sassy attitude. Is that how you imagined her before? I always thought she'd be someone who wouldn't talk much or play with words and be more about business. Also, was it a waste to have her killed so rapidly after finally getting some prominent screen time?
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RazorsEdge701
02/06/2013 02:22 PM (UTC)
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Nephrite Wrote:
what did you guys think of her in MK2011's story mode? Many felt her chapter was unnecessary, yet others enjoyed her sassy attitude. Is that how you imagined her before? I always thought she'd be someone who wouldn't talk much or play with words and be more about business. Also, was it a waste to have her killed so rapidly after finally getting some prominent screen time?


I'm kinda glad you asked that, because Jade's portrayal has always nagged at me. My big complaint with the writing of Jade in MK9 is, I don't understand what kind of personality she's supposed to have. I don't get her behavior and motivation.

She's so one-dimensional that she constantly repeats that same "too easy" catchphrase over and over again, to the point where it becomes obnoxious. Why is that all she can think to say over and over again? Were they trying to make her seem cocky like the female version of Johnny Cage or something? Cuz...it didn't work. Sure, other people say she's "sassy", but...it comes off stilted and unnatural to me. Only having one catchphrase and stuffing it into every sentence you possibly can is the opposite of clever. I don't get how calling everything "too easy" is sassy and I don't understand why she's the kind of person who would be sassy.

Where is this cocky "everything is so easy for me" attitude coming from? She's an oppressed slave who works for a brutal dictator that's nearly impossible to please and most of her job is apparently spying and keeping a leash on her best friend, which she apparently feels reluctant and guilty about doing. Her bio reveals that her parents SOLD her to Kahn when she was little. What about that gives her reason to be "sassy"?

And how young was she, anyway? Is she older than Kitana, old enough to remember what Edenia was like before Kahn conquered it? If not, how does she even know she's Edenian? Cuz being from Edenia was kept secret from Kitana, but Jade never "discovers the shocking truth" in any of the games like Kitana had to, she just seems like she knew where she was from all along.

I just don't get what kind of person she's supposed to be. Most of her dialogue is repetition of a poorly written catchphrase that doesn't really mean anything, and her pointless-ass chapter failed to flesh her out in any meaningful way, it just repeated the same "She's loyal to Kahn but her friendship for Kitana makes her change sides instead" shit we already knew about her way back in 1996 without adding anything new to her.
I'm not sure what I would have done different because there's so little to go on, you kinda have to make Jade's personality up from scratch. I think I might have made her shy and submissive at the beginning, like, y'know, a slave who's keenly aware what the consequences of failure or betrayal are would be. Plus, quiet obedience fits a sneaky ninja assassin who started out as a secret character way more than being talky and bratty does. That way, when she's forced to choose between staying loyal to the emperor or saving her best friend's life, there's more of a struggle there because we can see how afraid of disobeying and being punished or killed she is. It should be a hard decision for her to make, it should require courage and growth, we'd get to watch the character evolve from a meek Outworld servant to a proud Edenian patriot. In the game, she turns on Kahn on a fuckin' dime and acts like the same person before and after.
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Icebaby
02/06/2013 02:36 PM (UTC)
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Nephrite Wrote:
While they have done the best job so far (I'd say) regarding polishing the gameplay there were/are still numerous issues (input bug, round-end invincibility glitch, combo-reset exploits with Cyrax and Smoke, meter-drain glitch, balance issues, ...). It's the community's passion and devotion that kept the game alive on the tourney scene. After all those shitty (high level gameplay-wise) games, the community finally got a super fun and technically a decent one (far from perfect though) and decided to stick with it. It's understandable, the wait has been so long.

I'd say the graphics/design team did just as well, they didn't do a perfect job, but it was still good. I too am bothered by Jade's different skin-color in her retro costume, disgusted with most of the female costumes and their faces etc. On the other hand, we got some amazing looking arenas, badass designs for male characters etc.


This pretty much sums up everything I needed to say... except I enjoyed the story.

My only complaint with Jade... "Easy" "Easy" "Easy" Too Easy" "This will be EASY"

"Easy" "Easy" "Easy!!!!"

Oh my goodness, could they make her any more annoying? I'm glad they developed her in a way where she feels extremely fast like how she was during Ultimate, I'm GLAD they brought that back for her. (She was the only female, besides Sindel and Sheeva that I appreciated at lot back during that game) I just wished she had better lines to say in this game because no, it's not easy.
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PickleMendip
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STATE FED LIES CHARM EMPTY EYES. Anon.

02/06/2013 10:17 PM (UTC)
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Nephrite Wrote:Kitty and Milly.


Ha! love these nicknames!

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:But have you ever noticed how in Scorpion's round 1 win pose, if his back is turned towards the camera, he pulls the wrong sword off his back to twirl around and it looks glitchy? (I think this one might only happen in one of his costumes, not all of them, can't remember for sure. But it does happen.)

Yes. Happens on mine so I assume everyone's. Not the end of the world, is it? Certainly not as important as bitching about a character's skin colour/race/ethnicity/whatever. (Just so's we're clear, this comment is aimed at no one person in particular.)

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:Ever play story mode with the subtitles on and notice how in the last cutscene, after Kahn is dead and Raiden is talking about burying the fallen and repairing Earthrealm and all that, the subtitles have suddenly turned black, whereas they've been white the entire game up till then, and are nearly-impossible to read?

No. I hate subtitles, they are distracting. This is not true of when I watch foreign films, though, just because dubbing is even worse.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:Ever notice how when you're fighting the subboss version of Shang Tsung, sometimes when he morphs, the yellow glow that flashes whenever a boss ignores your hits will stay stuck on him until the next time you hit him? This one happens to me once or twice almost every time I fight him, so you can't tell me they've never noticed it.

Yes, noticed, but it does nothing, he doesn't have 'armour' even though the glow is there.

Nephrite Wrote:
Riyakou Wrote:
I must say I kinda like her MK2011 primary more than the one in Deception. Both are really good costumes, but the one in Deception looks a little weird at certain angles, mostly in the front, to be honest.
The one in MK2011 seems to suit Jade's style and movement, plus it goes well with the whole short-staff, long-staff thing she's got going on.


When it comes to her MK2011 primary costume, I like it too BUT only in the render. In the game it looks like the colors are kind of faded and the V cut reveals way too much of her chest. Also, as Jaded-Raven pointed out so many times, the chains are glued to her legs in the game. So, the transition from the render to the game didn't go to well I'd say.
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
I miss her MKD alt the most, the UMK3 remake costume with the ox-horn pigtails. You'd think that costume would've fit perfectly into MK9, what with it being a retelling of 1 thru 3...


It seems to me like that's the most beloved Jade look (especially the hairstyle), at least that's the impression I got from various Jade related discussions here on MKO. I like it too and you're right about it fitting better considering the story direction. I'm just a big fan of the Amazonian look so that's why I miss it a lot. I guess her MK2011 primary as it is (but with better in-game execution) and her MKD alt would have made a good combination for MK2011. But then she'd lack an un-masked look so that's a new problem lol.

I just hope the Amazonian look gets back one day (not sure how long we'll have to wait to see Jade again).

Oh how I'd love to see classic MK2/UMK3 fans to go along with Kitana's retro skins. And there's no animation issues here either...


Oh, god, what's it going to be like when I do Jade for the 'vote for your favourite costume' thread?!
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mwgrant0
02/12/2013 03:26 AM (UTC)
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OK. Lets move on, what does everyone think about the relationship between Kitana and Jade, do you think Jade is Kitana's Bitch or how would you want them to act. Personally, i think Jade should make it out of the Netherrealm and leave Kitana there so she is finally free of Kitana.
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RazorsEdge701
02/12/2013 11:28 AM (UTC)
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mwgrant0 Wrote:
Personally, i think Jade should make it out of the Netherrealm and leave Kitana there so she is finally free of Kitana.


Jade has never wanted to be "finally free of Kitana".

We've always seen that when the choices are "do something evil" or "side with best friend", she picks Kitana, because she's, y'know, not evil. They're so close to one another she tells Mileena "I am more of a sister to Kitana than you". She'd totally sacrifice her own life if it meant Kitana would live rather than abandoning her like you suggest. Kitana seems to be the ONLY thing Jade really cares about in the world in fact, as a result of how underdeveloped of a character she is.

Now granted, she'll be under Quan Chi's mind control in the next game and could be forced to do evil things she wouldn't normally do, but I think a better way to flesh her out wouldn't be to keep going back to that relationship again and trying to put new twists on it, you gotta give Jade some MORE shit to do and to care about that doesn't have anything to do with Kitana one way or the other..

Instead, I'd like to see Kitana off doing something else, perhaps something Edenia or Liu Kang related, while Jade is broken free of Quan Chi's control and/or possessed by that crystal-realm lady in her arcade ending so that we can find out more about who that chick is and what she wants.
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Icebaby
02/12/2013 06:56 PM (UTC)
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mwgrant0 Wrote:
OK. Lets move on, what does everyone think about the relationship between Kitana and Jade, do you think Jade is Kitana's Bitch or how would you want them to act. Personally, i think Jade should make it out of the Netherrealm and leave Kitana there so she is finally free of Kitana.


I wouldn't say Jade is Kitana's bitch, she doesn't come off to me like that in any shape or form.

Jade was one of two characters that I actually enjoyed the story in Deception, despite that I despise the game, and I liked that she teamed with Sindel to help save Kitana and stuff. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing that again, but since Sindel has be killed off, Jade and Kitana are slaves in the Netherrealm, obviously that story is changed greatly.

I wouldn't mind seeing these two go a different route. I liked the "evil" Kitana and Jade, because it just felt right (to me that is) to have them be portrayed as evil rather than good. So, maybe Kitana can finally give Mileena a chance to be together and the three can unite as the Powerpuff Girls... I would like them to be stuck with some evil personality because of where they ended up at the end of 2011. Be some kind of a weird change for once and have Jade and Kitana have something done with them that finally strikes an interest to me.
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Noobsmoke92
03/20/2013 09:16 AM (UTC)
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Regarding Jade's ethnicity:
Jade is an Edenian,who happens to be dark skinned or black. (as Razor pointed out black is not a race in this situation,it is skin color)

If you think that she is Edenian and that's all that matters and they can give her any skin color they want,let's just make Kitana dark skinned or Tanya light skinned or Asian-like,I don't think many people will like it,won't they? I think it is very important to stay consistent with Jade's appearance from now on,she is black Edenian.

Razor,regarding that question about Bo Rai Cho's lifespan and Edenians and interbreed,maaaaan,that was what I actually was thinking several days ago,I am happy I noticed this thread.

What I think is since we were given the reason why Edenians live so long in Rain's bio,I have this theory,since the ruler before Kahn,Onaga was called Dragon King,he was the king of the dragons,who by default live for a long time. Since we don't see so much dragons in Outworld I presume they went extinct (even in MKDA Blaze is guarding what was called the last dragon egg),so maybe some of them interbred with humans to create Shokan species,while the rest were slain by Shao Kahn and somehow their death or some magic of their death got spread on human population or something like that? Because I honestly think there is no other explanation for why Outworld humans live as long as well,it has got to do something with Onaga and dragons.

Now,about Edenians and Outworlders interbreeding,I just happen to think that since those who are half Outworlder half Edenian have part of Edenian in them are given choice by Elder Gods either go to Edenia or stay in Outworld,but to be honest,I don't think there are many interbred children like that because Edenians are the most known rebels of Outworld,so I would think most Edenians hate Outworld and Shao Kahn but can't do anything about it. So I would think they would have this tradition of not crossing path with Outworlder or marrying them.

You gotta also admit that Edenians and Edenia are paradise kind of realm,unlikeÂaOutworld which has this gothic Japanese evil culture about it (even though during Onaga's rule it could have been different,but Edenians were conquered by Kahn,they would never know),so I would also say even if Outworlder or Edenian try to get together,there is this cultural difference so to speak. But all of these are my theories.
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daryui
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03/26/2013 12:59 AM (UTC)
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Speaking of consistency, that is something other fighters get that MK doesn't. I like how the characters in Tekken or Soulcalibur look the same as they did since their debut (aside from the obvious graphical improvements) unlike MK, which can't keep the same eye color, color scheme, or face for its characters.

Noobsmoke92 Wrote:
I think it is very important to stay consistent with Jade's appearance---
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shrairyuwarrior
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PSN:athlos23

10/07/2013 12:42 AM (UTC)
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she looks black in the first game shes in but really i call her more indian as in like india especially the clothes and styles she wears in newer games thats what i identify with personally
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tabmok99
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For the most in-depth, in-detail, Mortal Kombat lore analysis vids, there's only one source:


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11/01/2013 03:03 PM (UTC)
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Since someone bumped this thread already, I'll just pop in with my $0.02...

I feel like it's very short-sighted to say "She's not black, she's Edenian, and that's all she is." Look at Superman. He's not actually a human as in he's an Earthling, he's Kryptonian, but he could pass as a white couple's baby so it's easier to just categorize him as white. Now, Krypton actually had black people. Check out this map of Krypton, released by DC Comics in Superman #239 (July 1971):

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/File:Krypton_Earth-One_Old_Hemisphere.jpg

"Vathlo Island -- Home of highly developed black race"

So if it's okay for Krypton to have a race of black people, I think it's okay for Edenia to have a race of black people too. There's nothing wrong with saying she's both black and Edenian... if indeed that's what she is.

But, I'm not so sure that's the case. In her first appearance, the actress who played her -- Katalin Zamiar -- was the same one who played Kitana & Mileena. She's a Cuban-American. Her skin was just pallette-swapped to make her darker.

So why is her skin darker, is she really a difference race? Are her parents really as dark as her? If so, would they resemble African-Americans? Why does she have straight her, and not curly hair then? I remember reading a fanfic one time, where it said Kitana was locked away in Kahn's tower and so she became very pale, while her friend Jade was forced to spend her time in the desert and so she became very tanned. While a fanfic is certainly non-canon, when considering "Jade's Desert" there was enough reason for me to think that perhaps a black race isn't what the MK team was going for when they originally conceived of Jade.

We'll never know for sure. The MK team was not explicit about Jade's race, the way DC comics had been about the "highly developed black race" on Krypton. They may flesh her out later, or they may skirt the issue altogether. While some may be convinced that she either is or isn't, we should remember that it's all speculation.
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RazorsEdge701
11/01/2013 04:36 PM (UTC)
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]{0MBAT Wrote:
While a fanfic is certainly non-canon, when considering "Jade's Desert" there was enough reason for me to think that perhaps a black race isn't what the MK team was going for when they originally conceived of Jade.


Three points on that:

1)
This sprite is just too brown to say her and Kitana are the same but one is pale and the other is tanned. Besides, when light-skinned people tan a lot, they don't really get dark, they turn a weird shade of orange.
2) Not every dark-skinned person has curly hair. As I pointed out before, some Hispanics and Middle Easterners are "black". And black Edenians needn't have the same physical traits black Earthrealmers have except for being dark skinned, because "black" specifically means skin color, it doesn't mean "of African descent" or "wide nosed and thick lipped" or anything like that, the same way that "White" doesn't automatically specify whether you're of Irish origin or Nordic or English or Jewish or what have you.

3) The desert stage was created quite some time after the actual character was. And it's not even "Jade's" desert anymore, the MK9 version is on Earthrealm, not Edenia or Outworld. It's apparently the location where Sindel killed herself/was buried. Why Earthrealm would have a big Sindel statue beats the hell outta me, but that's MK9 for ya...

It's highly unlikely that at the time MK2 was being developed, anyone thought "Okay, let's make her look like she's from the desert and gets a lot of sun, and then in the sequel we'll introduce the desert".

What IS somewhat likely is for them to have been thinking is "We should have a little more racial diversity in the cast." MK has always been somewhat conscious of that. Hell, according to Boon, Kabal and Kenshi were deliberately created to appeal to the handicapped. So I'm sure that at the time of her creation, Jade was intended to be a "black" character.
Side note: At some point, someone at DC realized how racist the idea that all of Krypton's black people live segregated on one island, and that they have to be described as "highly developed" (because apparently someone might think otherwise if they weren't?) was, so the whole Vathlo Island thing is pretty much only true in the Silver Age and in more modern depictions, like the World of New Krypton story where the Bottle City of Kandor is unshrunk and all its inhabitants are freed for a while, the black Kryptonians are just there along with the white ones.
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tabmok99
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For the most in-depth, in-detail, Mortal Kombat lore analysis vids, there's only one source:


https://www.youtube.com/tabmok99

11/03/2013 04:48 AM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge,

My main intention was to counter the "She's not black, she's Edenian" argument, posted by others on here, since clearly - as with Kryptonians - one can be both.

As to whether her skin is darker as the result of a tan or being a different race, I will concede that you're probably right, and their intention was to make her a member of a black race in Edenia. But, I still maintain that - while unlikely - her darker skin could possibly be the result of tan.

For example, here's an extreme tan that someone got:



(Yes, that's a white girl.) Found it from:

http://way2tan.com/Tan-People/skin-cancer-on-vacation.php
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Spider804
11/03/2013 05:55 PM (UTC)
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wow WOW.
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