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SonOf100Maniacs
06/20/2010 04:14 AM (UTC)
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Yeah, If they can lower the damage of the x-ray moves and, more importantly, make it so the meter only fills when you are on the attack, then it could be a decent and strategic mechanic. But as of right now its a bullshit comeback mechanic like ultra moves from SF4 and rage mode from T6, and of all the things MK needs to learn from fighting games, that is not one of them. You should be rewarded for kicking ass, not getting your ass kicked.

The parry move with Johnny is kinda cool, but why can't they make it a normal move for him? It could kind of work like Dudley's fake stun from SF3.

The one thing I am interested in are the controls and how combo's work. I understand that it is front punch, rear punch, front kick, and rear kick. It is an improvement from 1234 attack, but do the moves still differ in power and speed for each separate punch and kick? It looks like the front punch's are like quick jabs, so maybe combo's work like MVC 2 where you could mix the light attacks and heavy attacks into whatever order you wanted. Anything is better than the stiff, canned combo's from the 3D MK's.

Another thing about the control's, why a throw button? Just do the 2 button throw's from other games, just because you have a lot of buttons doesn't mean you have to use them. Keep MK a 5 button game.
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TheBigCityToilet
06/20/2010 04:21 AM (UTC)
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SonOf100Maniacs Wrote:
Yeah, If they can lower the damage of the x-ray moves and, more importantly, make it so the meter only fills when you are on the attack, then it could be a decent and strategic mechanic.

I only see the meters rising automatically to show off the stronger specials and Brutalities (the name I call "X-Rays" by now). Who said they increase with damage taken?
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SonOf100Maniacs
06/20/2010 04:33 AM (UTC)
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Yeah there would be times the meter would just jump to full, but the meter would also gradually fill every time someone got attacked (and the attacker got nothing). Of course, characters also got a little bit of the meter when they used certain special moves (subby got some for using freeze while scorp would not for using spear) so I understand it's not completely tweaked yet. I just don't want a potentially good MK to go down that road like SF and Tekken.
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Benzo2010
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06/20/2010 04:44 AM (UTC)
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BigCity...
As a whole? I dunno about THAT...maybe the supers can be tweaked or omitted, but the meter itself looks like a decent mechanic.


I'm not talking about the meter as a whole but the X-ray attacks. My point is that they look like they're too damaging and no one I've seen has been able to use a breaker on them. I'm not disagreeing with the meter at all because indeed MK needs a certain level of depth. But MK is known for cheesy gimmicks which inevitably discards it from becoming a serious fighter.
I almost guarantee Boon and his team will not test out thoroughly before releasing the game and the X-ray mechanic will be broken. Trust me it would be an ultimate pleasure to see an MK at an Evolution one day, but untill the result back to the original recipie it will continue to just be an fad.
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SubMan799
06/20/2010 05:37 AM (UTC)
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Sektor combos into this X-Ray move in this video. The damage is heavily scaled back, so it seems like X-Ray moves might not break the game. And since they take a whole bar to use, EX moves cannot be used to combo into them. Very nice
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SonOf100Maniacs
06/20/2010 07:29 AM (UTC)
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It appears that wakeup attacks are in the game as well. In the new video at 2:29 after reptile throws sektor, you'll see the words wakeup attack appear at the bottom right. It seems to be unique, because you see the 1's and 0's from his teleport uppercut appear around him, but unfortunately reptile hits him out of it and you can't see what he does exactly. I'm cool with quick recovery and recovery rolls, but in a 2d game are wakeup attacks really that necessary?
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Benzo2010
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06/20/2010 01:29 PM (UTC)
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Subman:

Sektor combos into this X-Ray move in this video. The damage is heavily scaled back, so it seems like X-Ray moves might not break the game. And since they take a whole bar to use, EX moves cannot be used to combo into them. Very nice

I'm not sure about that sir. Seems to me like the Sector player was able to combo into the X-ray attack AND his bar seemed to fill back up immediately. Kinda hard to tell though because the guy on the left head is in the way. All in all only time will tell. I just want this game to be good that's all...
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robs727
06/20/2010 02:26 PM (UTC)
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SonOf100Maniacs Wrote:
Another thing about the control's, why a throw button? Just do the 2 button throw's from other games, just because you have a lot of buttons doesn't mean you have to use them. Keep MK a 5 button game.


I started a threadregarding what the control system will be and that was one of the things that was brought up.

There seems to be alot of support for a throw button even though it was only implemented from MK:DA onwards.

I'd like to see a 2 button system or even go back to 2D MK and use an attack button that only throws when you're in range.

What's concerning me is that I think I heard someone in some video mention a button for the "x-ray" move. If that is the case, i'd like to know why exactly they need a specific button for a special.
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robs727
06/20/2010 03:21 PM (UTC)
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From the GameSpot 12minute demo at around 4mins Boon mentions "we also have the throw button, we have a move for the x-ray move which is a great feature".

I'm guessing he meant button, not move.

Assuming it is as he said, why would you have another button just pull off a special move, on top of that, if it is as devastating as they are saying and is being noted, why make it so easy to use? Surely a command action would make more sense to add a little risk to the reward?
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TheBigCityToilet
06/20/2010 05:29 PM (UTC)
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robs727 Wrote:
From the GameSpot 12minute demo at around 4mins Boon mentions "we also have the throw button, we have a move for the x-ray move which is a great feature".

I'm guessing he meant button, not move.

Assuming it is as he said, why would you have another button just pull off a special move, on top of that, if it is as devastating as they are saying and is being noted, why make it so easy to use? Surely a command action would make more sense to add a little risk to the reward?

I don't think so. If he meant "button", he would've said "button". He said it right before.

I'm from Chicago too, so I think when he said "move" he most likely meant "button combination". That's the kind of stuff we say over there.
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FlamingTP
06/20/2010 05:38 PM (UTC)
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yeah, he has to mean combo, if he meant button its going to be an even bigger noob fest.
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Joe-Von-Zombie
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06/20/2010 05:56 PM (UTC)
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robs727 Wrote:
SonOf100Maniacs Wrote:
Another thing about the control's, why a throw button? Just do the 2 button throw's from other games, just because you have a lot of buttons doesn't mean you have to use them. Keep MK a 5 button game.


I started a threadregarding what the control system will be and that was one of the things that was brought up.

There seems to be alot of support for a throw button even though it was only implemented from MK:DA onwards.

I'd like to see a 2 button system or even go back to 2D MK and use an attack button that only throws when you're in range.

What's concerning me is that I think I heard someone in some video mention a button for the "x-ray" move. If that is the case, i'd like to know why exactly they need a specific button for a special.


MKDC had two button throws and a throw buttion. I'm sure this will be the case here.
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SonOf100Maniacs
06/20/2010 06:18 PM (UTC)
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robs727 Wrote:
From the GameSpot 12minute demo at around 4mins Boon mentions "we also have the throw button, we have a move for the x-ray move which is a great feature".

I'm guessing he meant button, not move.

Assuming it is as he said, why would you have another button just pull off a special move, on top of that, if it is as devastating as they are saying and is being noted, why make it so easy to use? Surely a command action would make more sense to add a little risk to the reward?


I looked at each x-ray move in the gamespot video. In the 1 on 1 fights I noticed no movement inputs before each x-ray move, which got me worried that there was indeed a button. But in the 2 on 2 fights, both Kung Lao and Mileena had quick movements before their x-ray move, indicating that it is an input combination. Hopefully this means that they added the x-ray button just for demo purposes in the 1 on 1 fights, and used normal inputs in the 2 on 2 because of a lack of buttons (just a guess, face buttons are FP, BP, FK, BK and the shoulder buttons are BLK, THRW, TAG, TAG ASSIST? Or they needed a free button to fill their specials when they wanted.) There needs to be a more complicated input for something as powerful as x-ray moves (like double quarter circle, direction button and half circle, or full circle) and putting it on a button would dumb as hell.

I really wish we could compile all our concerns and send them to the mk team somehow (whether through twitter or an MKO interview.) Yeah it will probably go in one ear and out the other, but they need to know that there are people who are concerned more about gameplay than whether or not baraka or kabal are going to be in (both of which I hope are). Maybe I'm looking a little too much into the video's, but this is the first Mortal Kombat that I have been excited about since MKDA, and looks like the first one to have a promising engine since UMK3. All eye's are on them this time (hell shoryuken.com is even complimenting them on this game), and if they screw it up, they may not recover.
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SubMan799
06/20/2010 08:05 PM (UTC)
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Benzo2010 Wrote:
Subman:

Sektor combos into this X-Ray move in this video. The damage is heavily scaled back, so it seems like X-Ray moves might not break the game. And since they take a whole bar to use, EX moves cannot be used to combo into them. Very nice

I'm not sure about that sir. Seems to me like the Sector player was able to combo into the X-ray attack AND his bar seemed to fill back up immediately. Kinda hard to tell though because the guy on the left head is in the way. All in all only time will tell. I just want this game to be good that's all...


it filled up for demonstration purposes
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TheBigCityToilet
06/21/2010 01:46 AM (UTC)
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Looking at the footage, who else sees short dial-up-combos used to chain between specials and normals?
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Giorgos78
06/21/2010 08:42 AM (UTC)
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i just entered to say this:
FATALITIES MUST BE ONE BUTTON ONLY

im not a big fun but the game has to have that...this is a big fail
every body likes see fatalities....they cant remeber akk the combos.......mercy


i hope i enetred the oficial forums were developers resad what we say like in bad company 2.........
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SubMan799
06/21/2010 08:54 AM (UTC)
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Giorgos78 Wrote:
i just entered to say this:
FATALITIES MUST BE ONE BUTTON ONLY

im not a big fun but the game has to have that...this is a big fail
every body likes see fatalities....they cant remeber akk the combos.......mercy


i hope i enetred the oficial forums were developers resad what we say like in bad company 2.........


not the topic for that stuff
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FlamingTP
06/21/2010 09:40 AM (UTC)
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TheBigCityToilet Wrote:
Looking at the footage, who else sees short dial-up-combos used to chain between specials and normals?
Possible dial-a-combos I noticed from the Gamespot video Chronological order:

Scorp Vs Sub
Throughout: it appears that scorpions multi telepunches might be dialed most likely just good control though.

(note some apparent dialers are just throws)

FIGHT!
1:58-1:59
2:07-2:08 (after spear)
2:22-2:24 (not sure about this one, unusually fast for a mid air freeze)
2:48 (probably not, but possible)
3:01-3:05 (almost certainly DIal-a-combo)
3:08-3:10 (Identical to first mid-air freeze combo?)
3:31-3:33 (identical sword attack from before)
3:47-3:49 (First noticeable scoprion dial-to-special string not counting hellfire)
4:04-4:06
4:21-4:23 (Air-throw dialer to finisher, air-throw dialers are not technically dialers but they are generally meant to acomplish the same basic principle.)

Sektor/Reptile

FIGHT!
ZERO POSSIBLE DIAL-A-COMBOS FOUND ROUND 1! (possibles were only 2 hits not really a combo IMO)
6:48-6:49 (three hit from sektor)
^found one, there it is^
ONE! I ONLY FOUND ONE! THATS IT! ONE! air combos if they were it was really negligible.

Cage,Wolf/ Mileena,Lao (Tag combos will be counted as 2 seperate dialers if they show up)

FIGHT!
8:24-8-25 (failed 3 hit dialer from Mileena)
8:30 (possible start of a dialer by Mileena, Lao finishes with special)
8:32-8:33 (pretty obvious failed 3 hit dialer by Lao)
8:48-8:50 (3 hit dialer into sweepkick, same as first one?)
8:55-8:56 (Tomahawk popper dialer same as MK3 axe popup?)
9:07-9:10 (Dialer into pop-up special followed by 2 hit air to immediate sideways hat special I will count this as one, or maybe the guy just has skill.)
>>>9:20-9:24 XRAY POPUP TO HIT TO SPECIAL<<<
9:41-9:42 (failed combo to special. Glitch or feature?)
9:44
9:59-10:02 (3 hit special popup to 3 hit juggle dial special Identical to 9:07)
10:08
10:11-10:14 (special popup to special juggle, nightwolf this time)
10:59-11:01 (failed dialer to special)
11:06 (shorter version of the above, successful this time)
11:08 (failed beginning of dialer)
11:18 (again, lao this time)


Ok the good news: most dialers are extremely short and mainly used for pops to add custom combos, only a few long classic style dial-a-combos. I hate these combo types but if you shorten them to 3 hits like many were I dont mind so much.

I'm sure they'll add more, they have 9 more months to do it, and that's if they finish on time :(
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FlamingTP
06/21/2010 09:43 AM (UTC)
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Giorgos78 Wrote:
i just entered to say this:
FATALITIES MUST BE ONE BUTTON ONLY

im not a big fun but the game has to have that...this is a big fail
every body likes see fatalities....they cant remeber akk the combos.......mercy


i hope i enetred the oficial forums were developers resad what we say like in bad company 2.........


you mean like that ONE TIME when theBC2 forum was flooded with 50k pissed off gamers because of horrible lag issues? yeah, hard to ignore. MKO? not so hard.
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Joe-Von-Zombie
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06/21/2010 03:23 PM (UTC)
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TheBigCityToilet
06/21/2010 03:33 PM (UTC)
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FlamingTP Wrote:
TheBigCityToilet Wrote:
Looking at the footage, who else sees short dial-up-combos used to chain between specials and normals?


Possible dial-a-combos I noticed from the Gamespot video Chronological order:

Scorp Vs Sub
Throughout: it appears that scorpions multi telepunches might be dialed most likely just good control though.

(note some apparent dialers are just throws)

FIGHT!
1:58-1:59
2:07-2:08 (after spear)
2:22-2:24 (not sure about this one, unusually fast for a mid air freeze)
2:48 (probably not, but possible)
3:01-3:05 (almost certainly DIal-a-combo)
3:08-3:10 (Identical to first mid-air freeze combo?)
3:31-3:33 (identical sword attack from before)
3:47-3:49 (First noticeable scoprion dial-to-special string not counting hellfire)
4:04-4:06
4:21-4:23 (Air-throw dialer to finisher, air-throw dialers are not technically dialers but they are generally meant to acomplish the same basic principle.)

Sektor/Reptile

FIGHT!
ZERO POSSIBLE DIAL-A-COMBOS FOUND ROUND 1! (possibles were only 2 hits not really a combo IMO)
6:48-6:49 (three hit from sektor)
^found one, there it is^
ONE! I ONLY FOUND ONE! THATS IT! ONE! air combos if they were it was really negligible.

Cage,Wolf/ Mileena,Lao (Tag combos will be counted as 2 seperate dialers if they show up)

FIGHT!
8:24-8-25 (failed 3 hit dialer from Mileena)
8:30 (possible start of a dialer by Mileena, Lao finishes with special)
8:32-8:33 (pretty obvious failed 3 hit dialer by Lao)
8:48-8:50 (3 hit dialer into sweepkick, same as first one?)
8:55-8:56 (Tomahawk popper dialer same as MK3 axe popup?)
9:07-9:10 (Dialer into pop-up special followed by 2 hit air to immediate sideways hat special I will count this as one, or maybe the guy just has skill.)
>>>9:20-9:24 XRAY POPUP TO HIT TO SPECIAL<<<
9:41-9:42 (failed combo to special. Glitch or feature?)
9:44
9:59-10:02 (3 hit special popup to 3 hit juggle dial special Identical to 9:07)
10:08
10:11-10:14 (special popup to special juggle, nightwolf this time)
10:59-11:01 (failed dialer to special)
11:06 (shorter version of the above, successful this time)
11:08 (failed beginning of dialer)
11:18 (again, lao this time)


Ok the good news: most dialers are extremely short and mainly used for pops to add custom combos, only a few long classic style dial-a-combos. I hate these combo types but if you shorten them to 3 hits like many were I dont mind so much.

I'm sure they'll add more, they have 9 more months to do it, and that's if they finish on time :(



What video are you going by?

When I check those times, I don't see anything like you're describing, and I'm looking at the original uncut demo from e3 and the footage with only gameplay.
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SubMan799
06/21/2010 10:53 PM (UTC)
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three hit dial a combos are nothing to be afraid of. Just call 'em target combos and no one will rip on them :P
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TheBigCityToilet
06/21/2010 11:15 PM (UTC)
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SubMan799 Wrote:
three hit dial a combos are nothing to be afraid of. Just call 'em target combos and no one will rip on them :P

Witty...
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FlamingTP
06/21/2010 11:17 PM (UTC)
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yeah, I say maybe two standard dial a combos, no larger than 6 hits

oh and it was this video

http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6266626/
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SubMan799
06/21/2010 11:33 PM (UTC)
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none larger than 3
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