I think there is too big a difference between how we see fighting games. I want to play the game to its fullest and try my hardest to win. It sounds like you don't. My end goal is to win. I want a game that has the depth to give me options to win. I don't want to have to not use huge chunks of a game because it was made poorly. If a game sucks, there will be simple, abuseable ways to win. That is a bad game. One of the things that I hate even about MKT for PSX is Noob Saibot because they made him an easily abuseable piece of crap. If it weren't for all the rest of the good in that game, that could make me hate it. Long live UMK3.

On a side note. I suggest everyone try VF4e. But, you have to play it for a long time. If you just start out and hit buttons and stuff it will seem very slow. If you learn the first like 25 or 30 moves for a character and start to use them properly, the game gets sickeningly fast, while remaining insanely precise. The precision is why I compare it to UMK3. UMK3 is the only other game I have played with that pinpoint precision.

Holy crap, someone else actually like VF4:E on these boards?

You're right about it seeming slow at first, but it is amazing if you take the time to learn it.

UMK3 is great as well...I'm thinking that I should start playing the game again...MK II was my favorite, but UMK3 added crazy combo strategies that were sometimes a pain in the ass to pull off, but were really worth it if you got them down. I can't imagine pulling off half the combos in MKKB and whoever elses combo packs.

$a = VF4e + umk3;
$a > $_deity;

Honestly, I wouldn't focus hugely on those combo videos as there isn't really anything in there that can give you a win. You need the proper foundation first, and if you get really good, you can start trying to add modified versions of some of those combos, but in general those videos are just for show.

Back when I was better at UMK3, before that 5 year break from playing it
, I would try really hard to play without specials as much as I could. When I tried that I started to see the power in understanding the use of the Run button and how to take advantage of the rules of disabling and damage protection. Thats when the matches start getting interesting.

Thinking about how I play UMK3, it's funny that I took part in those combo videos, since I rarely if ever finished combos when I played. I would often go dozens of matches without a real complete combo.

One of these days I'll probably get around to Virtua Fighter 4 Evo. I realize it's like the deepest thing out there but honestly I just haven't had the patience for it. One of these days maybe... of course there will probably be like a Virtual Fighter 6 by then, but oh well.

And that's true about the UMK3 combos. A rookie should not focus on replicating huge combos. Personally I suck at big combos; after nearly 10 years of playing the game I still pretty much stick to the basics. Containment or air starter, launcher autocombo, jumpkick, projectile... maybe walk in with an aaHP before the jumpkick, if I'm feeling particularly ambitious. Like Dreemer said, most of the HUGE combos don't really translate to practical gameplay. There are some exceptions though. I have personally felt the wrath of some of MK2KB's greatest hits... like that Reptile combo (elbow-dash volleyball!)... kung lao's dive kick infinite... various Human Smoke/Ermac shenanigans... and a couple other nasty ones. But that is for the masters to worry about; us mortals needn't trouble ourselves with such things.

lol, yeah MK2KB is ridiculous sometimes. Kung Lao's spin infinites tend to be useful I'd say, since they aren't all that tough. In MKT, huge combos with MK2 Kung Lao are also fun just because he does MK2 damage instead of MK3 damage (a big difference when you apply it to autocombos). It's a shame MK2 Raiden didn't have MK2 damage. I love using him and that would have bumped him up pretty well.

True, MK2 Raiden is really fun to use. It warmed the cockles of my heart to see the superman attack brought into the MK3 universe. Reverse lighting was a great way to add a unique, useful move without actually having to make any new frames. Plus he has a launcher and a teleport, which always leads to a good time.

I often thought they were going to include Raiden in MK3 or UMK3 somewhere. They used his select screen picture to fill the empty spots when they were developing MK3. And he is the only MK2 character that does MK3 damage. Even Johnny Cage in MKT does MK2 damage, despite being all redone animations. Poor Raiden missed the damage boat

Dreem,man lets just gree to disagree ok manLOL,you have your opinion and i have min,but your wrong about one thing you said,trust me,i play to win,have fun,and build a rep.First comes winning,because if you want to really win,then you have a passion for MK.This i have,i live and breath for MK man!!!!UMK3 forever and MKT forever!!!!!!!Note: that after you play me you will change your tone about me not being a winner...Deception alone i have 5090 wins 330 losses,not to brag but that is not easy work.....not many people have a record like that,and im not one of those losers that constantly seeks out noobies or pulls like pansies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thats just lame,you can just go on the XBOX live tournament forum if you have your doubts,my peeps their will back me up.
Who do you use Dreem???????I use Ermac as my main character,smoke(robo).....you know what its too tough to say because i can use so many people in MKT or UMK3 20 in MKT,UMK3 at least 19 characters.

I thought Raiden could have used an anti air move to prevent cross up jump kicks/jump punches. Try this with Nightwolf, if someone is rushing you and goes for a cross up jump kick, just simply do his D-F HP motion as the jump over you, but in reverse, don't hesitate, just commit to the move, so you start doing D-B, HP but as they jump over you the game makes it think it's D-F HP, as they are in mid jump kick the axe will connect 99% of the time, it's extremely useful. With Raiden, he could have had a modification of his HP charge grab move, perhaps D-F K would be the anit air grab, so as they jump over he goes into his victory pose and holds them in the air for a few seconds then slams them like a regular throw with an extra bounce like Sheeva's enable a potential juggle. It's very similar in concept to how Raiden could throw you in MK2 even if you were in the air.

Matt

Everybody but Noob. Noob is for Newbs.

Edit: The reason I suggested you don't play to win is that you don't use every method possible to win in the game, because you think that would be cheap or wrong or something. I agree that it would probably be annoying, but that's the game you play. I just don't understand not using all the methods possible to win. And, if you really dislike some of the possible ways you could win, why even bother with the game? That's like playing XvSF and complaining about infinites, 100% damage combos, and heavily abuseable mashing. I will never understand that, so I officially agree to disagree with you.

OOOOOOOOHHHHH i see what your saying Dreem,thats cool man,heres the thing if you think about it,i believe that if you can win a lot of matches without resorting to infinites or gliches or whatever.If you decide to use them,it can only make you better,but i dont know if you can understand where i'm getting at????
Despite whether or not you understand my concept of it,i understand yours now.You feel just like a few other players i know in Deception,about doing everything in your power to win,just as long as theres no cheating with codes or something.
And heres my official answer to you Dreem,i'll admit that i prefer for people to play without gliches,without infinites but i know and understand that everyone doesn't believe in the whole "HONORABLE FIGHTING GIG"
I do believe in that,however that being said don't think for a minute that i wont or can't do an infinite right back at you if you persist to use it on me.
In a nutshell Dreem im prepared to take on any kind of opponent in MK,the players with infinites in mind,the players with strong combos in mind,and players that like to do both.I'm the type of player that can do both and will do both if i must,So if your the type of player that will try to do infinites on me the whole match,trust me you will get it right back.....I always expect the unexpected man.
And i just have one more question for you Dreem,since you believe in the whole infinite gig and using whatever the game beholds in front of you???Then why do you knock deception>You know how many people try to win now just by doing mere infinites???ALOT,especially against a player like myself.They see that i give them a hard time,so what do they do???They depend on infinites to defeat me or attempt......Just a point i feel that i really have,so i am very curious about your answer,speaking as how you hate deception., but yet praise UMK3's infinites,the few they have.or near infinites.

PS version because its cheeper.

Cheaper is often shittier in most cases.

yeah which is quite amazing since in this case cheaper equates to "Undeniably Better"



Matt

It doesn';t really matter that much if you think about it,i mastered trilogy for the N64 then played it on the PSx,once i adjusted to it after a few rounds i killed as usual,not to mention got a lot better in the arcade UMK3 version Both versions are similiar even if they are not the exact same product,and as close as thePSX version is to the arcade,it still isn't exact nor is the N64.But if you get good in either MKT you will improve vastly in the arcade,at least for me.Not to sound conceded or anything.

I like to use every method to win, and I dislike easy, repetative ways to win, like simple infinites and other game breaks. Since I don't like them but also don't like to limit my play, I stay away from games where they exist, such as Deception. Stuff like this turned me off to SFA3 as well, because the v-ism is game breaking to me. Of course any attempts made to balance it angered tons of the SFA3 fans that depended on cookie cutter V-ism repetition to win. And MvC2, since there is such a small top tier. I will still play most of these just for fun, except Deception. I played Deadly Alliance for fun and accepted its brokenness as a result of the completely overhauled gameplay. I thought the gameplay was a very good start towards a really good 3D MK game. But Deception should have been better. It's too sad that they would take the gameplay style and break it further.

If I could, I would add a simple limitation to Kung Lao's spin in UMK3, since that is pretty much the only easily useable infinite. I would also tweak it to get rid of relaunch combos. Those are the only two things, and the relaunch combos are so rare that that wouldn't even need to be done to make me happy with it. Maybe allow characters like Classic Sub to do a couple of repetitions of it since he doesn't have much else.

I would probably also balance Kabal a little, just to keep the pack tighter.

MKT needs a bunch more fixes. Balance Noob. Balance MK2 Kung Lao. Take out the bosses. Take out any easy infinites, like Rain's. Stuff like that. I think to keep as many characters as they have in that they'd probably have to be more aggressive at balancing like make adaptive damage protection that decreases the damage proportional to the number ofhits or something. Something more then just "Damage Protection On" and "Damage Protection Not On"

MK2 Kung Lao just needs regular damage, and a limit on his dash kick since he has a pop up combo.

Kung Lao's one spin limit in MKT is fine, and in Wavenet the limit is 3.

I think Stryker's gun locks at 5 hits before it so you can get a jump punch, 4 hit combo, gun, and then finish it off.

Noob's disabler needs to be slown down, that's it for him, his combos don't do much damage at all.

Rain's roundhouse needs to be limited to just one usage in a combo, not every other hit, that's ridiculous and I can't believe they let that go.

Kabal's spin was slown down or some start up was given to it in Wavenet, but he's still the best character in that. Personally I would just make the spin enable damage protection and keep it as it is so if you do get a spin his combos do even less, and anti air spins wouldn't result in 42%, even with this I bet he would still be number 1, but not as dangerous.

The state the characters are in during pop up combos should be made the same as a regular uppercut. You can do a standing LK that makes the characters stand up after a pop up combo and they can't block it, but after an uppercut cut in the corner a standing LK is always blockable (but comboable),except in one instance where there is a character who can juggle a standing LK after an uppercut on certain characters, I can't remember who, but anyway all standing LK/standing HKs if connected when that game thinks the character should be standing should be made blockable, that would be a universal adjustment and not a huge deal, just tightens the gameplay some more.

Ermac's lift should also always be counted as a hit, and Human Smoke should not have an air throw, I think there was a balance thread a long time ago though so I'm gonna stop, this is all modifcations I would want to make to characters in a mugen MK game, which might be possible once this new mugen MK game comes out in all it's brokenness.

Matt

I'll challenge you anyday. Just pick Smoke, do my special 100% damage, double flawless victory.

lol

Zero beats,if you were talking to me,which i think you were,but if not let me know,anyway believe me,you won't get near me nor will i allow you to trap me in the corner and do that 98% combo to me in the corner or near a corner.Just give me ermac,the minute you mess up your mine.A few 45% combos with ermac does me just fine.

My standard Ermac punisher combo is 75%, upwards to 83% depending on the character.

Matt

Now this is really getting interesting. When you guys all play, be sure and record your fights and post them here.

Again though the Ermac killer kombos you must be able to lure your opponent near or in a corner,i just enjoy doing 45%-50% combos are more than good enough for me.I would really like to face you MK2KUNG if only it was online for the XBOX!!!!!!!!

The near, corner, or punisher ones are probably better all around then other ones for Ermac. It sounds like you are talking about nabbing people with straight out TK slams and that tends to be more dangerous since a blocked one leaves you so open.

My 75% punisher is non corner, I also only use TKS in serious play if a person jumps from around full screen distance or is in recovery from an attack. I also don't have to be completely in the corner necessarily to get a 100% Ermac combo.

Just play on Kaillera.

Matt