After Konqrr and I finish project SZ Im pretty much done with posting up strategies for MKDA. Not that im "retiring", but I wont be around as much. I will definately be back on the scene for MK6 though.

Thk you a lot man for the infos...

Versatile Wrote: Well, Hsu Hao is way to damaging for you to play to play the guessing game, so it's best to stand there and block. Force the Hsu Hao player to attempt Shu Chiao f+2 or f+sm, and if you block it, 2,2,3,3,cs,cs,f+2,2,3,4 for 33%. Just force Hsu to go for low hits. Throw in JKD: d+1 every now and then. It's a great low attack. As for the the back breaker..like i said you should be blocking high..so if your doing that the move shouldn't hit. Make sure that when your d+1 in JKD is getting reversed that you switch to Nunchaku and d+1 instead. It's does more damage, is unreversable and can be missed up with d+3 for a cool low/mid mix up. Hsu Hao appears impossible for an average mid tier like Cage, but hes not too hard to defeat.

Is hell fire guaranteed after a launcher, ninja sword 4,1?

no. however, a lot of things with scorpion give you "almost guaranted" hell fires such as the shove in pi gua and Pi Gua: 4. d+4 in hapkido gives you a guaranteed hellfire

Satyagraha Wrote: Is hell fire guaranteed after a launcher, ninja sword 4,1?

There are a lot of moves that gaurantee a hell fire, but they must be timed properly. In ninja sword, or any combo leading to the 3 attack, you can use the hell fire after the opponent hits the ground after the juggle cause they land or their neck/back and can not roll away.

Other moves that guaratee it
Hapkido: d+3
Pi Gua: Lots of them, 4. 1. basically any move that knocks them down and they can not roll away from.

Yes...you are guaranteed a Hellfire from a laucher w/Scorpion. Any launcher that can't be teched, like Hapkido u+4 or Ninja Sword 3.

Hey lookie, that's all his lauchers
--------------------------------------------
Hey Vers, I haven't had much time since you sent me that first copy of the SZFAQ...but I'm gonna start working on it as soon as I do have time. Sorry about the delay.

"Yes...you are guaranteed a Hellfire from a laucher w/Scorpion. Any launcher that can't be teched, like Hapkido u+4 or Ninja Sword 3."

Yea, I know that, but the guy was asking if you get a guaranteed hellfire off of 4,1.


"Hey Vers, I haven't had much time since you sent me that first copy of the SZFAQ...but I'm gonna start working on it as soon as I do have time. Sorry about the delay."

Guess the cat is out of the bag now. Yea, Konqrr and I are working on "the ultimate SZ FAQ". Expect it soon.

Time to get back to posting up strategies and shit. This topic is dying. Here are the strongest juggles I know for everyone not counting power up(unless it's guanrateed) or walls.

Shang Tsung - Snake: 1,1,2,cs,2,1,1,1,cs - 29%

Sometimes it requires you to tap forward after you press the last 2 so the 1,1,1,cs wont whiff. This gets more flash points than 2,2,1,1,1,cs, but isn't as good because it misses on people like Quan Chi if your doing it from open stance.

Bo Rai Cho - Drunken Fist: 2,2,1,1,cs,2,cs~cs~cs~b+4~cs~cs~3,2,f,b+3 - 36%

Just plain sick. Does about 36% and is fancy as hell. Even though I'd rather go for the infinite this is strong nonetheless.

Quan Chi(who juggles with quan?) - Escrima: 3,1,b+1,b,d+4,4,4,cs- 29%

Kinda useless if you think about it. Anytime this would hit, 1,1,2,3,cs,4,cs would have hit,too. However, when this juggle connect I like to switch to TSD and either 4 for a sweeping,b,d+4 for a mid or reverse if I expect an attack.

Li Mei - Baj Quan: 4,4,cs,b+1,f,d+3,f,2,4~f,f+2 - 33%

One of the flashiest juggles in the game IMO. Very difficult to pull off.

Scorpion - u+4~b,f+1,2,2,cs,2,cs,1,1,3~cs~2,3 - 31%

Fancy little juggle with Scorpion. Not very creative, but hey, it's Scorpion.

Sonya - TKD: 2~d,b+1~cs~cs~sm~cs~2~cs,2,4,b+3 - 53%

Woo wee. This juggle rivals the damage Kenshi and Jax can produce. After this I switch to TKD and wait to see if they tech roll back. If they do not I either b+4 for a low,2 for a re launch or reverse if I expect an attack.

Kenshi(im not too good with him) - Tai Chi: b,d,b+1,b+1~b,d,b+1,b+1~b,d,b+1~d+2~b,d,b+1~d,b+4- 51%

Fancy juggle with kenshi.

Mavado - Long Fist: 1,1,b+2,b+2,cs,1,2,4 - 25%

Meh..they better make Mavado better for MK6. He's officially one of my favorite characters. Anyway, this is for flash points only, for we all know juggling with mavado(outside of walls) is just plain silly. Why do this when you can 2,4,4,b+3 for 35%. Not to mention if that hits you get a low/mid mix up oppurtuinity.

Johnny Cage - JKD: 2,2,3,3,cs~f+2~f~2,3,4 - 33%

I was pissed at this juggle once because it never hit, but I then realized you have to tap forward quickly after f+2 so that the 2,3,4 will always hit. If im low on health i do 2,2,3,3,cs~cs~cs~b+1~sm to get some health back.

Sub Zero - Shoto: 1,2,b+2,b+2~b,d+2~cs~sm~b,1,2,cs - 33%

Sub's strongest juggle outside of the ice shaker stuff. Doesn't lead to much set up wise, but the damage is good.

Kano - Xing Yi: 1,1,2,cs~cs~b+1,b+2 - 25%?

Dunno, im not near my MKDA right now so I forgot how much this does. However, using this is stupid since it's much better to power up off of 1,1,2,cs and then either do d+3 for massive damage or 4,4,3,cs,b+2 for even more damage. Kudos to MKL for this one.

Kung Lao - Mantis: 1,1,1,cs,4,4,cs,b+3,d,b+4 - 35%?

Again, dont play much KL so I forgot how much it does. I'm also not sure whether 1,1,1,cs,4,4,cs>1,1,1,cs,4,4 does more. No real set ups, but KL isn't a set up character. After this just keep up with your 1,1 jabs.

Nitara - Leopard: 1,1,1,cs,1,1,3,cs,2~cs~1,1,1,cs,1,1,3,3 - 60 something damage

I think it was MKL that came up with this one. Solid damage, and if I remember correctly it's instant kill off of a power up.

Drahmin - Iron Club: f,f+2>b+2,b,d+4,b+2,f,f+2 - 20 something damage

On power up this does about 50%. Just a juggle I came up with when playing him.

Hsu Hao - Sun Moon: 2,2,b+1,b+2 - like 20 something damage

Who the hell would waste their time juggling with Hsu Hao? He does more damage branching and throwing than most characters do juggling.

Frost - Tong Bei: 1,1,2,2,cs,4,1,1,u+3,u+3,1,1,cs,1 - 30 something damage

Frost is easily my worst character. In fact, I dont even know if that juggle works. I just remember using it.

Jax - Muay Thai: 2,2,cs,4,b+2,b+2,4,4,cs,4,f,f+3 - 57%

Man, Jax is too friggen good in this game. This baby does 57% regular and 61% on a wall stun(which is very likely). Two of these and you're dead.

Kitana - Eagle Claw - 1,4,4,cs,3,f+3,cs,2,2,2,f+2 - 40%

Haha..the only thing good about kitana is this juggle.

Raiden - Nan Chun - 1,1,2,b+2,b+2,d+1~f,f+1 - 26%

I've been using this juggle for months, which is why it's funny how I saw Saty using it in a Raiden's combo vid. Flashy as hell, and solid damage to boot, but unless you have a huge upperhand I would suggest sticking with Raiden's branch.

Reptile - 1,3,4,cs,1,b+2,cs~cs>1,3,2 - 40%

Cool looking juggle. After this switch to crab for the insane low/mid mix up.

Cyrax - 1,1,b+1,cs,1,1,b+2,f+2,cs - 33%

Looks very cool and does good damage. Also leaves you in pulse blade, which is a good place to be seeing how Cyrax is very safe in it.

Expect me and konqr's SZ FAQ by late july tops. We are about 50% done. It should blow you guys away..hopefully.

yo versatile....what gives bro? you vs mkl and you don't show up?


weak...

devilgene Wrote: yo versatile....what gives bro? you vs mkl and you don't show up? weak...

Man, don't get started! MKL didn't show up in Chicago when he was here and I put my time aside for him, so don't bring up old shit. Plus, this is the wrong thread for that crap...

Hey Vers.,
Combos look good. I'm not sure if some of those are in fact the strongest, if not they're close. For ex: Kenshi has 2 combos (starting in Tai Chi) that start a juggle, then do the slams and extra hits afterwords. You'll get a little more damage out of him.

Also, many of the characters can use their special moves to continue a juggle.

MrSchpfmut Wrote: Man, don't get started! MKL didn't show up in Chicago when he was here and I put my time aside for him,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(1)you should be thankful...saves you yet ANOTHER embarassing azz whoopin...

(2)and as far as versatile goes...this 'match' was 'hyped' by both to ME... and if i wanna 'put the question' to versatile, i will, even if it's in the open like this...

MrSchpfmut Wrote: Man, don't get started! MKL didn't show up in Chicago when he was here and I put my time aside for him, so don't bring up old shit. Plus, this is the wrong thread for that crap...

lol...............i didnt show cuz rayrokka aka the man who beats u all the time was ducking me and said that he refused to show if i came there so dont even get started with that.

DG you can believe what you want. I really don't care about what anyone believes or thinks anymore. Life is way to short for stupid shit like this. However, would someone go out of their way to hype a match up all over aim with all his buds and make a topic to get people to show just to back down in the ending? Wouldn't that be completely idiotic?

Lets save the drama guys. We had a great community going here. Even though minor squabble happened we overcame that shit. Even when people we pissed at MKL we overcame that, but now it's just getting out of proportion. I think it's because of the glue of the crew is basically gone(konqrr and salvidion). I talked to konqster yesterday, but where the hell is SB?

So lets get back to posting strats and stop the arguing.

I think Kano is a lot better than most people give him credit. I've always hated him as a character, but he has a solid moveset. Hes sort of like a miniture jax. Xing Yi: 1 is bdcable, and aikido d+3 is a hella good low attack thats safe. Not to mention is set ups are plain deadly. Top 15 for sure.

Kano is my 2nd best character now, his moves are superb.

I've yet to fully experiment with him, though. I'll post some strategies when I find the time.

Versatile Wrote: where the hell is SB?

HERE I COME TO SAVE THE DAY!

hey guys, sorry i havent been around in a
while,
been busy trying to write a book.

im still playing, almost every day.

been using frost alot latly, she is bad-fukin-
ass.
b+4 in second stance is awsome change up to
her 4,4,u+3.
she sidestepps very well also.
ive gotten good at powering up during a
sidestepp, and starting the combo from behind
them.
also is fun to sidestep and impale them.
i like (from second stance)
4,4,u+3,u+3,slide, then try a freeze.
if you get em on a wall,
4,4,u+3,u+3,1,1,CS to daggers,1,1,1,1
otherwise the branch will only connect the
first dagger hit, then repels them.

if you get your opponent in the acid bath
with her then god help them.

Shang Tsung;
if your opponent is not smart enough to roll
on the ground then u+4,d+4 are great. the
sweep conects on the ground right after the
overhead flip kick.
this is NOT unblockable, but i catch manny
people with it.
follow it up with a fireball of your choosing,
just for good measure.

heres a good one,
if you attack with u+4, and your opponent
blocks,
throw a reversal IMMIDIATELY and it will be
timed perfectly to intercept the retalitory
strike (assuming of course that the retalitory strike is immidiately incomming).
this tactic is awsome.
i catch everyone with it sooner or later.
it actually dissapoints me everytime the u+4 connects when i try this


in other news,
i have to concede some of my previous
argument with MKL about Bo Vs Movado.
my girlfriend's brother has taken to learning
Bo, and i must say he is quite formidable.
Bo Vs movado is indeed an up hill battle,

i wont completely concede that it is a no-win
situation for movado, but it is a very hard
match up.

we still fight at work, for money when we
have it, and these guys have come a long way.
im currently training 3 new players.

Ive seen some crazy shit in our fights since
i posted last, nothing is really coming to
mind at the moment, let's see...

sonya's kiss of death takes priority over most everything anyone throws,
cant hit her from beneath it with a low
attack...
cant often connect anything to knock her out
of it before it hits you.

movado has a slower recovery time on his
throw than frost... probably others...
frost can have her throw blocked, and try again immediatly to cancel out an incomming retaliation.
movado cannot do this,
he gets punnished hard for trying anything
this bold.

thats all i have to say for now, glad to see
this thread is still alive.

" Good... adaptation, improvisation,
but your weakness..... is not your technique."

That Shang tactic kicks ass dude! Never tried that out, but when I do play Shang(which is rare. too boring) i'll defintely use that. Don't play frost, but I can see one flaw in your strats for her, and thats the fact that side stepping hardly works in MKDA. Don't forget about the universal tracking. Who is your main anyway? I forgot. Also, if you got MSN or anything hook me up with your screename.

Mav vs BO is basically suicide, but it's still possible. Mav just has to play his BDC game in wing chun and hookswords and pray for the best.

Where my Gamecube players at? Wanna know who i will be playing in MK6..lol. I'm having a tournament for that game no doubt as long as I get my DSL.

The Konq man and me are still working on that sub FAQ. We're taking request for chapters. Here's what we have so far.

Chapters

1. The Stuff You Guys Should Already Know About(legal stuff!)
2. Introduction
3. The Legend/Other Terms
4. Sub Zero's Full Move List
5. Shotokan In Depth Move Review
6. Dragon In Depth Move Review
7. Kori Blade In Depth Move Review
8. Special Moves In Depth Review
9. Juggles For MK Fan's Soul
10. Frequently Asked Questions
11. Links
12. Thank Yous
13. Outroduction

Thats what we've got so far. We'd both appreciate any suggestions chapter wise. Thanks in advance.

Versatile Wrote: side stepping hardly works in MKDA. Don't forget about the universal tracking. Who is your main anyway? advance.

Universal sidestepping is all well and good, but some moves and strings are not compatable, ie; any move which requires you to hold a direction other than up, and the subsequent string which that move yields upon connection.

with that in mind, when i am deffending, or idle(not blocking low attacks), i almost always hold up on my stick just from force of habit (holding down for sidestepping will lock you in place in a duck position after a block).

i sidestep accidentally all the time, but i stay ready for such things, and reflexivly counter when the opritunity arises.


my 'Main' will allways be Scorpion.

but as in all MK's the longer you play the more you eventually need to play other characters.

my list of played characters is as follows, auto biographically listed in order of my usage;

scorpion
kung lou
shang tsung
movado
frost

these are the characters i pick from when i play.

i dont counter-pick according to my opponent, i just pick whoever i am in the mood to use.

when i fight my girlfriend's brother i am compelled to pick movado alot, because he is fond of busting my balls by quoting MKL (actually more that other guy, i don't feel like looking up his name)
and telling me that in 'high level' play i cannot beat him.

we go back and forth, but as i say, i have seen how Bo posess a problem for movado.

Nah, moves that requires you to press forward or something just tap up, let go, and then do the command. Anyway, any suggestions for chapters guys?

SalvidonBlak Wrote: Versatile Wrote: where the hell is SB? HERE I COME TO SAVE THE DAY! hey guys, sorry i havent been around in a while, been busy trying to write a book. im still playing, almost every day. been using frost alot latly, she is bad-fukin-ass. b+4 in second stance is awsome change up to her 4,4,u+3. she sidestepps very well also. ive gotten good at powering up during a sidestepp, and starting the combo from behind them. also is fun to sidestep and impale them. i like (from second stance) 4,4,u+3,u+3,slide, then try a freeze. if you get em on a wall, 4,4,u+3,u+3,1,1,CS to daggers,1,1,1,1 otherwise the branch will only connect the first dagger hit, then repels them. if you get your opponent in the acid bath with her then god help them. Shang Tsung; if your opponent is not smart enough to roll on the ground then u+4,d+4 are great. the sweep conects on the ground right after the overhead flip kick. this is NOT unblockable, but i catch manny people with it. follow it up with a fireball of your choosing, just for good measure. heres a good one, if you attack with u+4, and your opponent blocks, throw a reversal IMMIDIATELY and it will be timed perfectly to intercept the retalitory strike (assuming of course that the retalitory strike is immidiately incomming). this tactic is awsome. i catch everyone with it sooner or later. it actually dissapoints me everytime the u+4 connects when i try this in other news, i have to concede some of my previous argument with MKL about Bo Vs Movado. my girlfriend's brother has taken to learning Bo, and i must say he is quite formidable. Bo Vs movado is indeed an up hill battle, i wont completely concede that it is a no-win situation for movado, but it is a very hard match up. we still fight at work, for money when we have it, and these guys have come a long way. im currently training 3 new players. Ive seen some crazy shit in our fights since i posted last, nothing is really coming to mind at the moment, let's see... sonya's kiss of death takes priority over most everything anyone throws, cant hit her from beneath it with a low attack... cant often connect anything to knock her out of it before it hits you. movado has a slower recovery time on his throw than frost... probably others... frost can have her throw blocked, and try again immediatly to cancel out an incomming retaliation. movado cannot do this, he gets punnished hard for trying anything this bold. thats all i have to say for now, glad to see this thread is still alive. " Good... adaptation, improvisation, but your weakness..... is not your technique."

SEVERAL things that r wrong here. when playing frost ALWAYS use the infinite otherwise she is worthless. use u+3 in conjunction with b+4. if u+3 hits then u+3 again and then freeze and go into infinite. if u use 4,4,u+3 then u+3 again then time the slide so it goes under them then their controls r reversed for a second and by tryint to roll back right away they actually roll forward and u can re-launch,freeze etc.also, as far as the branch into launcher into wall combo certain characters fall out of the juggle and block the last 3 dagger strikes and punish u. off the top of my head i know that raiden, hsu hao, and i believe jax do this. and reguarding your frost double throw thing she can be punished after the throw. she cant re-throw unitll her foot hits the ground while u can attack immediatley so while the window for punishment is small it is there and u WILL be punished by a good opponant.

now on to shang. U+4 SUCKS!!!!!! it is not safe. just like the frost throw if the punishment is done as soon as u+4 is blocked then u eat it. use 2 instead of u+4. its got better priority is actually safe and if it hits leads to 29% damage.


the stuff u posted about sonyas kiss was realized the day MKDA came out too.

SalvidonBlak Wrote: when i fight my girlfriend's brother i am compelled to pick movado alot, because he is fond of busting my balls by quoting MKL (actually more that other guy, i don't feel like looking up his name) and telling me that in 'high level' play i cannot beat him. we go back and forth, but as i say, i have seen how Bo posess a problem for movado.

if u r going back and fourth then u dont really see how BRC handles mavado. at high level its not even a match. mavado gets killed easily.

Yea, Frost is low tier without the infinite for sure.

Yea, Mav does get mugged by BRC. But I still don't think it's 100% impossible. It's Kuma vs Jin unlikely, but not impossible.

Even though Li Mei is damn well close to low tier, i'd like to know how you play her against better characters MKL

For me it's all LHBF: 2,4. it's safe on block and does solid damage. When I see an opening I 1,2,b+1,f,3,2,4~f,f+2 for about 25%.

MK_Legend Wrote: if u r going back and fourth then u dont really see how BRC handles mavado. at high level its not even a match. mavado gets killed easily.

i have to agree, his bo is good, but not to the potential he obviously has.

i can imagine how it must work out, because when he realy is in the zone i just plain cant get to him.

the fact that he beats me with him tells me how good bo is in fact, because no offense, my girl's brother is not as good as me.

i didn't mean to say my Movado against his Bo was the highest level; i just said he was formidable, and that he likes to say i can't beat him in the highest level.

he knows better to imply he's better than me

i can't wait for online play, you all better own a PS2!

MK_Legend Wrote: SEVERAL things that r wrong here. when playing frost ALWAYS use the infinite otherwise she is worthless. use u+3 in conjunction with b+4. if u+3 hits then u+3 again and then freeze and go into infinite. if u use 4,4,u+3 then u+3 again then time the slide so it goes under them then their controls r reversed for a second and by tryint to roll back right away they actually roll forward and u can re-launch,freeze etc.also, as far as the branch into launcher into wall combo certain characters fall out of the juggle and block the last 3 dagger strikes and punish u. off the top of my head i know that raiden, hsu hao, and i believe jax do this. and reguarding your frost double throw thing she can be punished after the throw. she cant re-throw unitll her foot hits the ground while u can attack immediatley so while the window for punishment is small it is there and u WILL be punished by a good opponant. now on to shang. U+4 SUCKS!!!!!! it is not safe. just like the frost throw if the punishment is done as soon as u+4 is blocked then u eat it. use 2 instead of u+4. its got better priority is actually safe and if it hits leads to 29% damage. the stuff u posted about sonyas kiss was realized the day MKDA came out too.

sorry i didn't scroll up far enough to see all this when i made my last post,

1, ok, this may sound stupid but i dont like infinites.

high damage combos mabey, but i just dont see the point.

i hardly think shes useless without them.

as far her double throw, i just meant to say it recoverd way faster than movado.

i never ment to say she had a magik unpunishable throw, i realize if you try to do this you take a horrible risk against a competant player.

i appologize if that was not expressed in my statment.

2,as far as shang's u+4, i love it.

is my tactic about the reversal not sound?

i admit, its a risk using it, i never said it was safe.

any character can punish shang for it i suppose...
when you do this you are gambling, and in my opinion it does pay off

i cant think offhand and will check, but,
if 2 is the launcher kick, then i think it is a different tool for a different job...

i do use the launcher when i want the combo,

but i don't always want the combo.

the u+4 covers ground quickly and connects well.
i realize that if it connects i only get the one hit.
im fine with that, it suits my purposes.

3,ok sorry about the late sonya stuff,
nobody good used to play her in my group.

ok, did that cover it all?

PS MKL, if yer ever in Coventry R.I. look me up and bring cash.
i know several people who you could for sure mop the floor with (Me?), but they would put up ca$h-money to call down the thunder

OHHHHHH..MKL getting called out!

Anyways, Sub FAQ is shaping up really nicely. It's going to take a bit longer than expected, but it should be worth the wait!

Might as well make this post in here and add to the 13 pages on gameplay goodness...

You can actually get Nitara's combo as high as 112% without your opponent being able to evade or counter, but your opponent does need to have their back against the wall so they don't fall out of reach. Sometimes it can be difficult though to not hit your opponent into the wall itself, (giving them a chance to wall-roll away) so it may be easier to start the combo a short distance from the wall so you actually reach the wall after the pop-up.

So, if you are in practice mode trying this out, make sure this is the case first. Right then:

CS = Change Style

- Neijin in Fu Jow Pai
- Switch back to Leopard

1,1,1,CS,1,1,3,CS,2,CS,1,1,1,CS,1,1,3,CS

Clear as mud? Good...let's explain it a little better...

1,1,1,CS,1,1,3,CS is simple enough, it's her standard style branch combo that ends with a pop-up attack with her Kamas. After the pop-up, keep them in the air by juggling them once with 2. The juggle hit will send them skywards a little higher, allowing you time to switch back into leopard. So, switch back into leopard, then perform the style branch combo again while they are still in the air. It's possible to connect with the whole thing, but you've got to time it correctly. Don't start the combo when they are too high or too low in the air or you won't connect with it. Timing is crucial. This is also why the opponent needs to have their back to the wall...if they don't, they'll fall out of reach before you can finish this part of the combo. If you do it correctly, your opponent won't hit the wall and therefore they won't be able to wall-roll out of the combo. As noted at the beginning of the post, it may be easier to start the combo just a little distance from the wall, so you actually reach the wall after the pop-up attack.

Without Neijin - 17 hits 64%
With Neijin - 17 hits 112%

If the opponent has their weapon out, it's 25% more damage...so...

(Opponent in weapon stance)

Without Neijin - 80%
With Neijin - 140%

There ya go :)

White_Pointer