Noob Siabot and original Sub-Zero
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posted03/28/2006 04:35 AM (UTC)by
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cybernetica
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-its not tradgic to die doing something you love...

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11/13/2003 12:51 AM (UTC)
ok so it just hit me like a ton of bricks how can noob siabot and the original sub be in the same game (umk3) i mean if its the same person how can they be in the game together ?
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JediTommy8
03/06/2006 02:54 AM (UTC)
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Classic Sub Zero wasnt really a real character,he was just there to let fans have an original person back.In other words:he wasnt canon.
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bleachwad
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"I'd rather have a proctologist named Dr. Hook" -Al Bundy

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03/06/2006 04:24 AM (UTC)
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Also, the official canon concept of Noob Saibot being Sub-Zero didn't come to be until atleast 2003 or 2004, UMK3 came out in 1995
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DAVE101
03/06/2006 08:24 PM (UTC)
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I hate how many people get confused. The person you see in trilogy is NOT the MK1 sub-zero. Just because he's classick doesn't mean he has to be the original. It makes more sense that he is MKII subby because they have the same moves. MKII is still classick.
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Vash_15
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03/06/2006 09:23 PM (UTC)
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Classic was just an excuse to let fans play as ninja Sub-Zero, although fans fantasize about how it could be the Great Kung Lao in disguise, or yes Noob, but he, like human Smoke, was a non-canon character.
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BiohazardEXTREME
03/06/2006 09:29 PM (UTC)
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That's nothing. I remember a guy theorized that it was Johnny Cage in Disguise.
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Nikodemus
03/06/2006 09:30 PM (UTC)
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BiohazardEXTREME Wrote:
That's nothing. I remember a guy theorized that it was Johnny Cage in Disguise.


Lol I remember hearing that too...
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Smoke01
03/06/2006 11:31 PM (UTC)
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That's not that funny of a theory. Because it does say in Sub's MKT ending, (not sure if UMK3 had the same ending) but that Sub-Zero takes his mask off to reveal he was someone else. Therefore, Sub could have been anyone, Johnny Cage being the most likely since he wasn't present in MK3. So, I can understand where that guy got his idea. But, like most people will tell you, Noob and Sub-Zero weren't decided to be the same person until sometime during the making of MK Deception, which was close to 10 years after UMK3 was released.
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Nikodemus
03/07/2006 01:53 AM (UTC)
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Smoke01 Wrote:
That's not that funny of a theory. Because it does say in Sub's MKT ending, (not sure if UMK3 had the same ending) but that Sub-Zero takes his mask off to reveal he was someone else. Therefore, Sub could have been anyone, Johnny Cage being the most likely since he wasn't present in MK3. So, I can understand where that guy got his idea. But, like most people will tell you, Noob and Sub-Zero weren't decided to be the same person until sometime during the making of MK Deception, which was close to 10 years after UMK3 was released.


It is funny if you think of Johnny Cage tossing ice balls at people. The ending for Classic Sub-Zero has always been a matter of debate...I personally think he was added so that people could use the old Sub and the ending was just trash made up on the spot so that he could have an "ending."
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sub-zerofan92
03/08/2006 04:18 AM (UTC)
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classic sub-zero wasn't a real character (as in real person). it was just for people who prefer sub with a mask and ground freeze. He is just as real as chameleon (im not talking about khameleon) and meat
"Classic" just meant he was wearing a "ninja" outfit, instead of his MK3 unmasked look.

Like said above, "Classic" Sub-Zero is MKII Subby, but he's implied to have MK1 Subby's spine rip fatality.



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sonic
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03/26/2006 07:17 PM (UTC)
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i think classic Sub-Zero in mkt is umasked Sub-Zero wearing a mask with no scar plus the Sub-Zero in mk2 is the same one that is in mk3
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Anyanka
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03/27/2006 04:20 AM (UTC)
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Classic SZ's ending.....

Having been killed in the first tournament, Sub-Zero somehow seems to have emerged to win the third tournament. However, upon removing his mask both the Outworld and the Earth-born warriors...

Are shocked to discover the true identity of this warrior. A warrior who has long been missing from a previous Mortal Kombat, and one who will return in the fourth tournament.


The wording makes it clear it is someone else. Who is it? Who knows. Could be Cage, Quan Chi, Dick Cheney, Baraka....honestly I doubt even John Tobias knew. I wouldn't be surprised if he wrote the ending to be vague on purpose so he could come up with an explination later and then never did.

The general consensus now is that it is "non canon". There's nothing official to back that up. None of the games have ever said anything contradicting him. He is simply a unexplained cliffhanger that Midway may not even remember. But in the past few years the MK story community has been obsessed with labeling things "non canon", picking and choosing which story they like and which they don't to ignore and this is one of the major ones that many have decided to pretend don't exist.

This is a perfect example of why I am quickly losing any interest in following the MK story. It's so poorly written, vague and confusing fans have to take it upon themselves to either explain the unexplainable or simply choose to ignore it as if it isn't part of the story. There's no way to be consistent. Ask 20 fans to tell the MK story and you WILL get 20 different answers. It's so bad this entire character is largely forgotten or ignored because his ending makes no sense and is never followed up on.
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armageddon936
03/27/2006 07:50 PM (UTC)
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If his ending was canon I would think it would be shinnok because he can copy anyones power's but that is highly unlikely, and would'nt make much sense
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Shinnox
03/28/2006 02:51 AM (UTC)
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sub is in there because......
the programmers put him in there.
most people liked the "ninja" style sub over the unmasked sub. they put him in becasue he was popular, and it allowed for more characters wihout sacrificing a lot of memory.
much like the same way human smoke was in umk3 and mkt.
also, sub zeros ending doesnt mean that he was someone else. all it said was " Are shocked to discover the true identity of this warrior". that could mean anything. it could mean it was someone else, or it could simply mean they wre shocked to see him without his mask, as no one knew who he as, or what he looked like (or even his real name).
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Anyanka
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03/28/2006 04:35 AM (UTC)
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It doesn't just say they were shocked at his identity. It says he was thought to be the dead brother come back to life, however upon removing his mask they were shocked at his identity. The first sentence acknowledges that old Sub is dead and says he seems to have been resurrected. The however shows that is not the case and then goes into the crap about the shocking identity. The last part also mentions that he is a long missing warrior. The first sentence had said old Sub was dead. Not missing, not apparently dead, not thought dead, just plain dead. If it was just him they wouldn't mention him as being someone who was missing because they had already established that he was dead.

The point of the ending is that everyone thought it was the old Sub back to life but when he takes off the mask it's some missing guy. The wording of it makes no sense if it's just saying it's the old Sub. It's true they had never seen old Sub before and that nobody was really missing once MKT came out and that it's never been resolved. It's also true he was probably only put in the game because palatte swapping a classic Sub-Zero was easy. All true. It's a very stupid, nonsensical ending. It's also part of the story, stupid or not. If they wanted him to be non canon they would have given him no story at all. The fact that they bothered to write an ending, no matter how dumb, shows they took him at least somewhat seriously.


It also makes no sense to say that if his ending is non canon than he isn't either. He didn't win so his ending never happened. He never took off the mask and shocked everyone. That doesn't mean he doesn't exist. It's still a guy long missing, he just never got the chance to take off the mask and shock everyone. If the requirement to be a canon part of the MK mythos was for your ending to have happened half the MK roster would be left out. Smoke didn't win MK3 but he still has his soul. Sindel didn't win MK3 but Jerod was still her true husband. What is non canon or "what if?" is what happens AFTER they had won, any backstory is still true regardless of who won. Unless otherwise retconned in a later game there's no reason to think otherwise.

This ending also shows another example of selective ignoring and deciding what to accept by fans. It's one of a few to refer to the events of MK3 as "the third tournament". It's right there clear as can be. But since most are insistent on it being just "a war" this part is just ignored or deemed "non canon".

For the past few yeas the phrase "non canon" has become like a catch all explination for any plot holes, contradictions, unpopular or vague stories. Don't like it? Doesn't fit in with your view of the story? Let's just say it's non canon.
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