Somebody said they'd like to see joint-locks etc. in MK6... I'd say: NO GRAMMA! I was bored to death by DOA's enless boring wrist-lock combonations...

CorrezZ Wrote: Somebody said they'd like to see joint-locks etc. in MK6... I'd say: NO GRAMMA! I was bored to death by DOA's enless boring wrist-lock combonations...

To an extent, I feel the same way. I play DoA and for rounds upon rounds all you do is bait and reverse, bait and reverse. Granted, I'm not a hardcore DoA player, but i've played enough to know that a fighting game is just that; a fighting game. Not some shoving, little prissy hand slap, keep away game. Though, don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing the game...but not for to long.

Though, I do enjoy the various grabs and locks. If not for any thing else than asthetic appeal - DoA has absolutely gorgeous animation. But when I think of MK, grabs don't pop into my head. It's a world of gods, dieties, and sorcerers. Not a universe where two dudes go for a takedown once Big John McCarthy yells "Lets Get It On!!!"

Creating a video game is a complex myriad of art,programming,structure,design,heart,soul, and politics.

There are a million things that you have to deal with at any given time.

Being proffessional and not falling in love with any one idea. Be a fountain of creativity, because making a game demands it. Because for every one idea that makes it into a game there are hundreds more just like it in the trash bin.

I feel very fortunate to be on a game like Espionage because I feel that a high percentage of my game knowledge is already being implemented in that game.

Let Espionage be the gauge by which my opinions are heard. Because that game is very much a part of me. I am putting my heart and soul into designing this game and I think that my team lead respects and values my opinion. thats what I got hired for...my game knowledge.

If Espionage does well I am sure that I will get the call to work on Midways flagship title once again.

Pre order ESP...if I can get a million pre orders I will get the call for MK.

Believe me ESP is gonnna FUCKIN ROCK!!!!!!

Let me know what you think...if you like my game design.... make it known. Play my games demo and if you like it pre order and buy it.

We will be releasing a demo disc hopefully for the holidays...if you like it PRE-ORDER


you guys can get me on the MK team....


do it...

I AM DESIGNING THE DEMO! I started designing the training level today.


DO IT NOW!


I pre order all the time....you always get kool shit....so if there are a ton of pre orders...kool shit will happen.

I buy almost every game that comes out and I use demos as a gauge of how good a game will be. Take in mind that it is a very early unpolished version of the game and imagine it finished...

Did you have fun?

Does it leave you wanting more???

Midway is releasing a host of awesome titles next year.

Suffering, Area 51, ESP and a ton of other great titles.

NOT JUST MK.

I've plyed every game that is coming out for Midway next year and the lineup is absolutely insane!

This is my expert opinion as a Professional Gamer.

If I did not work for Midway I would still buy all of these games.

Pre Order is a really important gauge because sales speculation is based on it.

oh yeah... one more thing. The title might change.

I would change the name to a simple

ESP

and make it an acronym...


like

ESP

Eliminate the Soldiers of Psi

somethin like that...

post your acronyms here cuz I'm going to propose the name change in a thread tommorrow at work.

It's always good to have proof whenever pleading a case. A good acronym would really help.

http://www.midway.com
I'm capturing new video and screenshots this week so new stuff should be up soon. Check out the trailer.

Mr.Schpfmut played the game in a focus group at Midway. He was given the ok by my team lead to talk about it (WITHIN REASON). He can tell you what he thinks of it.

LOL!! Nice sell, Ray. You did a good job on the shameless plug. I searched for a while and peeped your baby. I won't waste forum space with Q's - here I come Mr.S - but it seams to have some fun, experimental elements to it. That is, from what I've seen in the pix and various articles.

Don't worry, you'll be hearing all the praise from us if it ownz. Along with the hisses if it sux.

I'd still like to know what you'd like to see implemented into MK6. What features, rather, gameplay mechanics would you push for? Peace and love ya'll.

rayrokka Wrote: A)Being proffessional and not falling in love with any one idea. Be a fountain of creativity, because making a game demands it. Because for every one idea that makes it into a game there are hundreds more just like it in the trash bin. B)Believe me ESP is gonnna FUCKIN ROCK!!!!!! C)if you like it PRE-ORDER you guys can get me on the MK team.... D)Mr.Schpfmut played the game in a focus group at Midway. He was given the ok by my team lead to talk about it (WITHIN REASON). He can tell you what he thinks of it.

A) Words of wisdom! Listen and learn... I do!

B) Not to sound like a kiss ass, but listen to (though I believe) every word this man has to say! (more on this later)

C) I'm definately going to, the game is amazing and will be even better when finished! Plus, Ray on MK dev team = VERY VERY GOOD THINGS WILL HAPPEN TO MK!

D) Hell yeah! I got to go to Midway headquarters in downtown Chicago for the ESP/Psi-ops focus group a few weeks back. I will try and answer any questions I can. Maybe should we do a thread in general disucssion where I can answer some questions? Or you can just PM me.
(Saty, I'll get back to your PM very soon)

Here's a little of my insight on this to start off with. (Ray I think I've done ok as far as what I may not be able to say but if you notice anything please rip my vocal chords out and shove em down my throat!)
---------------------------------------------

People have been comparing 'ESP' to 'Metal Gear Solid' but I only agree with that partially. Pretty much the only thing which relates the two is they're both third person Action/Shooter genre games. In 'ESP' you will rely on your 'Psi-powers' more than you would on stealth and a huge inventory game.

In all honesty, the real reason this game is different and you will enjoy playing this game... is Ray. Basically what he has done is taken the idea's of what the team wanted the game playability to become, and made that a reality. From what I know this includes the games controls and special powers the character has.

For starters, I'll tell you right now the part you're going to love this game for, 'Telekinesis' or just 'TK'. Similar to the powers of Kenshi of MK:DA, but completely controllabe by the player.

Everything from being able to pick up just about any crate, opponent, or health-packs that are just out of reach, throwing opponents into walls (or eachother) and 'TK-surf' (I'll let you guys figure that one out... it's the shiznit!) is thanks to Ray.

There are many more powers you gain as you move along in the game. A full list of powers and what they do are at http://www.midway.com as well as some general game info.

I do NOT know everything about 'ESP', but the story seems very cool with a very well pulled of Sci-fi twisted government scenario. Also, I did not get to play the end of the game, but the games's lead told me and the group the end portion of the game has a really cool twist that I really would not have expected!

-----------------------------------------

Take my word on this, I'm really trying not to sound like just some fan-boy or anything. If you had played this game when I did, you wouldn't be saying anything differently!

Again if you have any questions, I May be able to answer them for you.

Good luck on finishing up ESP Ray, but I wont be able to pick it up till next year when I get my PS2 or Xbox.

One thing i'd like to throw into the mix(MKDA related) is Sub-Zero Shotokan special the frost retreat. While I really love this technique I can't help but feel that it wasn't fully realized. Sure the option to side step while doing it is cool, but the side step is VERY small and rarely useful unless dealing with 100% vertical and untrackable moves.

So what do I think would be good for this move? Well, first the side step needs to be bigger so that it has both defensive and spacing abilities. This would make the move essential under certain situations.

Secondly, lots of people here agreed with me when I said Sub-Zero's style in MKDA is very defense oriented. So I think a special version of the the frost retreat that instantly reverses anyone who tries to attack Sub out of it would be very helpful. Of course the command for it would be hard, but the results and animation would kick ass.

Lastly, The ability to make the frost retreat change to a frosty rush down would be tight. This would resemble Sub's slide from the good old days a bit, but with a twist. Off of this frost rush sub would have 3 options. 1 option would be to buffer it into a cold sholder(which should be changed to a mid hit) or he could press 3+4 or something and do the old school slide. Not as fast or deceptive as Frost's but more damaging. The third option would be that out of this technique sub could do a throw that is only possible off of the rush.


While we are on the subject of lin kuei characters i'd like to discuss some frost ideas. Though I really can't stand this character I couldn't help but notice the overall unfinishedness of her.

Now I'm not one to hype friends, but my boy Spazz's frost is nice, and just watching the way frost moves and stuff when he uses her had me thinking..why not suggest making her a movement based character? She would have cool zany steps,back dashes,crouch dashes and stances that are simply used ot throw the opponent off. She wouldn't capitalize much in damage or speed but pure confusion. Kind of like Ling Xiayou in Tekken,Voldo from Soul Calibur 2 or Shun Di from VF4, but taken to a totally different level when it comes to depth and flash.

Frost's back flip out of Tong Bei was a cool move, but it wasnt that good due to slowness and bad recovery. It would interesting if this could be focused on more. Perhaps the back flip could work as a mini stance with many different options. So when you are in back flip mode you could instantly do qcf+4 to go straight into the slide or perhaps d,d or u,u to kartwheel step(a larger version of the side step). Out of the karthwheel step Frost would have the ability to buffer in throws or complicated attacks. More on this later..friend just arrived

rayrokka Wrote: you guys can get me on the MK team....

... for what reason?

sig1n Wrote: rayrokka Wrote: you guys can get me on the MK team.... ... for what reason?

shhhhhh..no one likes you

Versatile Wrote: shhhhhh..no one likes you

That's okay, that may be so, but doesn't ray sounds strange sometimes?
One day he says, he isn't using Sub Zero that much and doesen't like him, then another time he has "developed" the character and has giving the ideas for some of his moves. ... and now it is his fav. ... hmmm.

...and the best of the rest:

"Pre order ESP...if I can get a million pre orders I will get the call for MK."

... come on, this a joke. Awake!

sig1n Wrote: Versatile Wrote: shhhhhh..no one likes you That's okay, that may be so, but doesn't ray sounds strange sometimes? One day he says, he isn't using Sub Zero that much and doesen't like him, then another time he has "developed" the character and has giving the ideas for some of his moves. ... and now it is his fav. ... hmmm. ...and the best of the rest: "Pre order ESP...if I can get a million pre orders I will get the call for MK." ... come on, this a joke. Awake!

As long as I've known ray I know he's liked Sub-Zero. He just doesn't play him seriously because as we all know hes not that great in DA. I remember giving sub strats about as long ago as 7 months..so he must of hated Sub last year or something.

What ray means about the whole preorder thing is that he designed the demo, so if people pre order the game like crazy then Ray will definately get on the MK teams since if people like his work in ESP they'll like his MK shit.

you can think what ever you want s1gn

I know that I'm not going to make everyone happy.

All I know is that I want to make good games.

bottom line.

and sometimes that means stepping on toes and hurting feelings.

WHen I first started working on ESP I was very honest and critical about what I thought of the game...it spawned results.

the game has taken a turn for the better and I am proud of every single person on my team.

I'm not the only designer...the whole team is taking a part in designing this game.

What I have done is given the game structure by analizing our competition and incorporating state of the art game design techniques into our own game.

WHile inovating on our own hook.

First: One million pre- orders ??? Go and get it.
Second: What has it to do with MK ?
Third: We are off topic.

@Ray: What do YOU think would make MKDA better?

Versatile Wrote: As long as I've known ray I know he's liked Sub-Zero. He just doesn't play him seriously because as we all know hes not that great in DA. I remember giving sub strats about as long ago as 7 months..so he must of hated Sub last year or something. What ray means about the whole preorder thing is that he designed the demo, so if people pre order the game like crazy then Ray will definately get on the MK teams since if people like his work in ESP they'll like his MK shit.

sig1n Wrote: First: One million pre- orders ??? Go and get it. Second: What has it to do with MK ? Third: We are off topic. @Ray: What do YOU think would make MKDA better? Versatile Wrote: As long as I've known ray I know he's liked Sub-Zero. He just doesn't play him seriously because as we all know hes not that great in DA. I remember giving sub strats about as long ago as 7 months..so he must of hated Sub last year or something. What ray means about the whole preorder thing is that he designed the demo, so if people pre order the game like crazy then Ray will definately get on the MK teams since if people like his work in ESP they'll like his MK shit.

I don't think about making MKDA better...DA was over a year ago for me.

I think about making ESP amazing...

and then if that goes well hopefully MK6.

rayrokka Wrote: I don't think about making MKDA better...DA was over a year ago for me. I think about making ESP amazing... and then if that goes well hopefully MK6.

So what is this thread about?

He's a designer. And a very dedicated one at that. He's interested in what the people who play his games are thinking about and what they like or more importantly, don't like. Don't rail on the guy for doing what more developers should be doing. I'm pretty sure when ESP is released he'd probably would like to discuss that game too. Designing video games is an artform that can never be perfected, just improved over time. I'd be very weary of the developer who claims to have made the perfect game.

TonyTheTiger Wrote: He's a designer. And a very dedicated one at that. He's interested in what the people who play his games are thinking about and what they like or more importantly, don't like. Don't rail on the guy for doing what more developers should be doing. I'm pretty sure when ESP is released he'd probably would like to discuss that game too. Designing video games is an artform that can never be perfected, just improved over time. I'd be very weary of the developer who claims to have made the perfect game.

hind sight is also 20/20
I'll probably be beating myself in the head with a hammer after ESP is done....

yes video games are a blend of many different artforms and sciences....I consider anyone that works on a game to be an artist of sorts...

Programmers are artists to...they do lighting and special effects....they code all game design systems.

For every idea of mine that gets implemented...

there is a programmer assigned to make it "reality".

Ed Boon is a programmer, but I would still consider him an artist.

My roomate is a programmer for the same game I'm working on and having a resource like that at my disposal 24/7 has helped my growth as a designer immensely.

He gives me info on how long implementation will take, if it is even possible with the engine that we are working with. Cost memory wise....etc.

I've been able to come up with features that are possible because he lets me know if it is even possible with the tools we have.

Hey ray can you spill any info on this whole MK6 being a playable demo soon stuff? I could of sworn that you guys hadnt started working on gameplay yet, guess its just me hoping that there is still time for our stuff to be in the game in so way,shape or form.

I dont know anything about MK6....


although we will be working on the ESP demo soon.

WTF happened to Trocki man? He like dissapeared! Bankrupt? drug overdose? Marrital problems? Dylexia? What's the deal?

Ok, to get back on topic. Lots of people love the idea of CHing, so I figured i'd post some moves that I think should have the CH treatment. Of course all the moves can land on CH, but like I said in my guide some moves that land on CH will cause a special kind of stun that makes the opponent crumple down and gives you free damage. Here are some moves that were in MKDA that I think should get this treatment.

Shang Tsung - I really don't think Shang Tsung should depend too much on CH in MK6. You guys should focus on making him more of a trickery type with slick,fluid like movements and intricate throws,parries and combos, but here are a few that I think wouldn't hurt.

1. Crane: b+3 should cause the CH effect and off of it Shang's 3,3,2 or 2 would be guaranteed, along with other stuff. The CH could also be used as a set up of sorts. Off of b+3 shang tsung could side walk all the way to the opponent's back then he can do a quick crane:3. Since crane 3 isn't a knock back move or a launcher, the small poke would not effect the opponent's crumpling. So from that you can quickly do 3,3,2 to launch them from behind and juggle them into a wall. If done correctly they'll knock face first into a wall, allowing you to quickly run to their back for a guaranteed back throw. Shit like this will keep people playing your game and will attract new fans : ).

2. Crane : 4 on CH could guaranteed a soul steal. Even though it wouldn't guarantee anything else, the Shang player could still try to set them up. Since the opponent is thinking "ok whatever guaranteed soul steal" they wont be expecting a low sweep cancel into Lost Soul(throw).

Bo Rai Cho - Eh...Bo Rai Cho's style in DA should be all about flow..pure flow. None of this super damaging bull shit. I think he should be the Hwoarang/Ivy/Sarah of MKDA. Pure skill needed, but when it's all put together it creates an almost movie like sequence of pure custom made(no canned shit) combos and intricate throw and puke set ups. Only really two things to me should be on CH with him.

1. Bo's flip should be turned into one flip instead of an automatic two. On CH it should cause a stun similair to Shang Tsung's, but less shit guaranteed. IF the flip lands on CH perhaps Bo would get a guaranteed puke or 3,2.

2. Bo's drunken: b+4 on CH should cause a similair effect.

Scorpion - Heh, Scorpion along with Sub-Zero should be the two most CH dependant characters in the game. Sub-Zero should be the most defensive character in the game with some of the best reversals,parries,character specific movement and CH capilities. However, with Scorpion he should have no defensive options. He should be a pure offensive machine. Costantly bull dogging and looking for CH oppurtunities. To offset this "weakness" scorpion would have the best CH shit in the ENTIRE game. Two CH hits that lead into a juggle could spell game over for you. Here are few things I think should have the "CH EFFECT"

1. Ninja Sword: 4 on CH should be one of the nastiest things in the game. Guaranteed shit all over the place if it hits, and off of a launcher the spear could be guaranteed.

2. Pi Gua: 4 on CH, and CH only, would guarantee a summon hell fire. It would have the same "stumble down" effect as it did in MKDA, but when its done regular it would only do a little damage and not cause a stumble.

Sub-Zero - Like I said, what sub lacks in pure offense he would have in the best defense in the game. The strongest weapon repel(see guide) and the top reversals,parries,dodges,character specific movmement etc. Decent frame advantage and a mediocre throw game may turn some off, but his CH game be one of the better ones(nothing compared to scorps of course)

1. Kori: b+1 on CH would cause the whole stump down effect. Since it has a built in side step and goes 360 the shit thats guaranteed of it shouldn't be too nasty. Maybe just a free Kori: 3.

2. Kori: 1 should be nasty on CH. The weakness would be that it goes vertical and comes out slow, but this mid hitting baby should give ya a guaranteed Shotokan: 1,2,b+2.

3. Shotokan: 2 on hit should give ya the same shit that Kori: 1 does.

4. Dragon: u+4 on CH should cause a unique ch effect that gives you a guaranteed throw mix up. What I mean by this is that on hit perhaps they would hold onto their head and stumble back allowing Sub-Zero to walk up and either do his Icy Barage( has a 1+2 escape and a 10 frame escape window. Sub-Zero punches you in the gut...icy retreat back and then forms 7 small icicles. He then launches them at the opponent and when they all hit he forms a bigger one and launches that. does 30 damage) or a the DDT(a simple DDT with a 2 escape and a 12 frame escape window and does 20 damage).

More stuff later...im thinking of some Jax shit.

Good shit. Nice to see someone get a little more technical with the frame advantage/disadvantage. Though, I see you're still stuck on the Tekken escape system, lol. J/K.

A theory I've got about throw escapes revolves around how the throw is dedicated. For instance; standing throws, lunging throws and low throws. All of which could be recognized through their animation. Standard throws would have a f,f+blk escape resulting in a "push away". Lunging throws would be b,b+blk resulting in a side step, swipe away motion. Low throws escapes would be initiated with d,d+blk, resulting in a jump evade, quick step back, or down-ward shove.

Now, any button could be swapped in, that is arbitrary. However, the logic behind this system involves how the throw is dedicated in relation to the opponent. Directional inputs are used as the escape method once this dedication is seen by the player - how the animation looks; IE low, lunging, or standing. If developed, this method could also allow for movement technuiqes and moves to be buffered out of throw escapes. Or vica-versa.

Now, regarding throws and CH, why not have a throw CH? For characters such as Kano, if you execute a throw on CH, this could result in type of "motion switch" where you not only throw the opponet, but they recover off balance, as well. This would allow you to rush down and perform some type of oki for extra damage. Not all throws would have this property and some throws might be useless on a non CH event.

Just some random thoughts. Peace and love ya'll.

Hey I never thought of that. I think everyone should have atleast 1 low throw.

Here I will put down moves that should cause frame advantage and moves that should be frame disadvantage.

Frame Advantage

1. Jabs - The 1,1s 1,2s and 2,2s of the stances are what you would consider jabs. Fast pokes that usually lead off into a combo and do solid damage. On block all jabs should be a solid +3-+5 or so, and on hit jabs should +7-+10 or so.

2. Delayed Attacks - Delaying an attack should do three things. First it should throw the opponent off. It throws off their parry timing,reversal timing,duck timing,etc. Secondly they should do more damage, and thirdly they should cause extra frame advantage. If a move is zero on block if that move is delayed it should cause frame advantage. If a move already has massive frame advantage on block then delaying that attack should cause a guard stun.

3. Any Move On Hit - Well obviously if a move hits it's always gonna be frame advantage, but maybe it's not as obvious as I think since MKDA had no frame advantage to speak of.

Frame Disadvantage

1. Any launcher - Any launcher,pop up or juggle starter should be a risk. Sub Shotkan: b+2, Shang's Crane: 2 and Scorpion's Hapkido: u+4 are just a few examples.

2. Power Hits - First off moves like Kung Lao's Shaolin Fist: f+2 and Sub-Zero's Dragon: b+2 must do much,much,much more damage. These "power hit" type moves should be game enders and tide changes, not moves that do 10 damage and knock you far back. Think about it. Why would anyone ever use either of those moves in MKDA....ever? There is no point in doing a 10 damage move when you can do a 40 damage combo. Anyway, these moves should be extremely unsafe on block.

3. Throw Attempts - While not too unsafe these moves should be frame disadvantage if ducked or avoided in some way or antoher. Perhaps -9 or -10.

4. Reversal Attempts - These should be even more unsafe due to their tide changing capabilities. This would automatically balance out characters like Sub-Zero and Raiden since they kind of depend on reversals and shit like that.

More shit later

Versatile Wrote: 3. Any Move On Hit - Well obviously if a move hits it's always gonna be frame advantage, but maybe it's not as obvious as I think since MKDA had no frame advantage to speak of.

Ah, but in VF there are moves that actually connect and DO put you at frame DISADVANTAGE. LOL!! Eat it VF hater j/k

Satyagraha Wrote: Versatile Wrote: 3. Any Move On Hit - Well obviously if a move hits it's always gonna be frame advantage, but maybe it's not as obvious as I think since MKDA had no frame advantage to speak of. Ah, but in VF there are moves that actually connect and DO put you at frame DISADVANTAGE. LOL!! Eat it VF hater j/k

well..you can....you can suck it!

Gee...mk5.org staff might as well change this topic to What Versatile and Satygraph Thinks Would Make MK6 kick ass.

What about Dim Mak/Kyushojitsu paralyzing and energy disimbalance techniques and Dragon twisting moves? Um..I also like to add stuff about Pi Gua Zhang. The blocking in Pi Gua should involve palm techniques. There's this one Pi Gua blocking move that involves scooping. It would be cool if you could incorporate that into the next MK.