MK2KungBroken i have something to say to u




SHUT THE FUCK UP...im sorry ppl but this guy is pissing me off,U do not know everything about MK.U do not know what is right and what is wrong..And if u have a problem with ppl posting there personal oppinions,,,then just dont say anything

so bottom line:: shut the hell up and let ppl talk
Thank you

I know more about UMK3 than you do, and I know more about MKII than anyone who has tried to defend it.

Bottom Line.

Oh and LoL@ your anger.

"Your biggest problem here, is accepting that there are facts you cannot dismiss just by saying you don't agree with them. "

They are not facts... if they were facts... and leet gameplay is all that matters nothing else... you would not be sniffing around UMK3 still. As I said... from your perspective and how YOU choose to play... that is your opinion (an opinion that is totally fitting to someone looking from your perspective)... however... I am also alowed to have an opinion too that is based on how I like to play. I am sorry but you just cant dictate that.

"You don't think that there are blatant differences in MK games that explain why one is better than another."

no.. its a matter of taste. One may have mechanics more suited to how YOU and your friends choose to enjoy the game, however another might work better for me. Yes... it really is that simple.

"They are games based upon mathematics, and there is a community which represents a perspective that measures how good games are."

Once again... from your perspective... maths may be all that matters... from mine, there are other factors included WITH that to make up my mind. As I said before... if gameplay was all that maters, we would be inundated with stickfigure fighting games with amazing gameplay that Im sure you would love but would, in reality, fail to sell.

"You think that all the hoopla surrounding a game still matters today in terms of judging that game."

No I dont.. I simply judge it by how much I enjoy playing it. I am sorry but that is not somrthing that can be plotted and measured on a graph... we are not mindless robots... we are humans.

"You think MKII is relatively popular outside of people's homes."

No... I dont think any MK titles are massively popular on a world level (not a competition level) outside the home... however... in my experience in arcades... MK2 is the only one that seems to get a representation here.

"You think that the people who play the games casually regardless of content matter."

LOL that is my favorite part... Companies try to please all worlds... sure they would like to please the vast minority fanatics... however... the most important thing they want to please is the masses. A company would much rather have a game that is well loved by the public with sound gameplay that sells a few million, then one that is technically great and fails on all other levels and sells 10000. See... this is where the minority of hardcore players simply are less important... sure they will be used to test the game and I am sure that companies hope they like it... but at the end of the day... its about the numbers, not about you.

"You think there is a "world" of casual gamers out there who represent a collective perspective upon a game."

No... I think there is a world of casual gamers who all companies PRIMARY goal is to appeal to.

" They are drones."

Unlike yourself Mr Mathmatics ;)

"I know plenty of people who tell me they play fighting games, but they don't really *play* them."

Becasue they dont play them the way you THINK they should be played... sorry... you are not the yardstick by which all should be judged.

"People go to websites to learn about the gameplay, and how to get better at it, it is a form of literature and education, with a concrete background."

That is fine and good... as I said before people enjoy the game in different ways... neither are higher or lower... they simply do.

"but you're not learning anything from it, or ascertaining anything of relevance. "

It is a GAME... it is fantastic that you take yourself and it so seriously... but others just dont... I am sorry if that upsets you but THAT is a fact... once again.. that doesnt give you any right to impeede others enjoyment of a game.


"The ones who said they liked a game for anything other than the gameplay, didn't win very often, so these people aren't playing it because it's a fighting game, they see something else, but in reality, it's still just a fighting game."

No... here is the difference... they see it as a GAME... thats it... some recreation... you take it as a way of life... thats fine... in reality it is just a GAME


"When you say that a casual gamer's opinions are as valid as a fighting game player's about a fighting game, you look foolish."

No... You look REALLY foolish when you think that multinational companies are just trying to please you and your minority of friends. Sure it would be great if you liked it... however... it is the MASSES that are important... not you. You have a problem with self importance if you think a company's prime objective is to please a small amount of people in this day and age.

I think you need to let your ego go a bit. You obviously seem to think you are a bit of a game guru... good for you... however... most people simply could not care. At the end of the day... you think UMK3 is the best ever... well thats just lovely... I, whilst I think it is a lovely game, do not... that is fine too. Perhaps it is just time you respect other peoples RIGHTS to an opinion.

"They are not facts... if they were facts... and leet gameplay is all that matters nothing else... you would not be sniffing around UMK3 still. As I said... from your perspective and how YOU choose to play... that is your opinion (an opinion that is totally fitting to someone looking from your perspective)... however... I am also alowed to have an opinion too that is based on how I like to play. I am sorry but you just cant dictate that."


All your "..."ing is a sign. In any event, you can believe whatever you like, but when it comes down to it, there are people who know better than you do, and there are facts you need to deal with. Again, it doesn't matter if you like the atmosphere of a game over another, that has nothing to do with the cut and dry gameplay, which is all I have ever talked about since it's the only thing that keeps games alive. MKII is dead. Even the number of people who play it on Kaillera is approximately 2 dozen. You seem to think that it's just my opinion, or that of a few people I know, but it isn't. There's a huge amount of people who wouldn't even bother trying to talk to you about this since you can't relate. Definitely, UMK3 is a better game than MKII because it has more of the qualities fighting game players desire, thus making it "better" by a measurable means. You don't think that it's measurable, because it's beyond your limits of caring. That's too bad because you're on a fighting game based website. Regardless of what type of game you like, you are in the minority when you think a turtle based fighting game is in any way better than an aggression based counter part, which also has the option to turtle.

"no.. its a matter of taste. One may have mechanics more suited to how YOU and your friends choose to enjoy the game, however another might work better for me. Yes... it really is that simple."

It's so far from a matter of taste. You keep saying "YOU" and "your friends" but it's more than that, it's 99% of fighting game players. I have experience, you don't. The casual players who don't even talk about beating other players, and only playing the computer, often complain that they can't beat the computer as well. What kind of people are we dealing with here? They aren't the type of people who tell the game creators what they want in the next game, because the creators already know. It's easy to please casual gaming fans who dabble in fighters because they have little, to no standards and will buy anything.

"Once again... from your perspective... maths may be all that matters..."

What is this "your perspective" crap. It's not just me, it's almost everyone who plays fighting games.

"from mine, there are other factors included WITH that to make up my mind."

That's great, but you will never influence game makers on how to make a game more fun to play. Most people who don't like MK3 don't like the fatalities and added characters, but there are plenty of people who do like, or don't care about the fatalities, and just look at Smoke, Sektor, and Cyrax's fanbase. It's no coincidence that plot deviced rival characters have a huge following.

"As I said before... if gameplay was all that maters, we would be inundated with stickfigure fighting games with amazing gameplay that Im sure you would love but would, in reality, fail to sell."

I've already said this in other threads. If UMK3 were stick figures, with no sounds, no music, no backgrounds, and highlighted collision detection, it would still be a better game than MKII. It just so happens that everything surrounding the game to make is athstetically pleasing is virtually identical for both games. Different backgrounds, different music, different characters, different fatalities etc, are naturally subject to criticism. Basing your preferences on your own personal scale of creativity doesn't cut it. Honestly though, the only way they could have topped MKII was to keep what they had and add more, and then from there we move onto MKT, which is precisely that, including added gameplay elements. MKT is sadly untested, and not an overall better game than UMK3. When you compare all the excess in UMK3 and MKII, it's very difficult to say which is better, there's only what more countable people prefer, like Coke vs Pepsi. More people play UMK3 competitively today than MKII, it's impossible to tell if more people play MKII in their spare time than UMK3. I go to a lot of MK boards, and there's no discernable difference because it's just not important to say "Hey I play MK games at home, what now?" What is important and interesting to fighting game fans, not casual gaming fans, is playing it competitively against other people, bringing them together, having fun, winning money, educating, and building a scene. Have you taken a look at the stickied threads on the top of this forum? Three of them are mine, they are all about gameplay, and they total over 1300 posts. There are other large gameplay related threads scattered about that weren't stickied.

"No I dont.. I simply judge it by how much I enjoy playing it. I am sorry but that is not somrthing that can be plotted and measured on a graph... we are not mindless robots... we are humans."

Something else you might not be able to understand as a human is, good =/= fun to everyone. Good and fun are not synonymous. I can't wait to see your heartfelt response to that.

"No... I dont think any MK titles are massively popular on a world level (not a competition level) outside the home... however... in my experience in arcades... MK2 is the only one that seems to get a representation here."

I didn't say massively, I said relatively. That means, in relation to their age, and natural popularity decline to other games. It wouldn't surprise me if more people still play MKII or UMK3 than MKDA. And no, MKII is simply not found in more arcades, or places that house video games, than UMK3. On my site, DreemerNJ has made a map to locate MK Arcade Games, I think there are currently over a dozen locations in the US for UMK3, 1 for MKII, and 1 for MK4. This is coming from any and all MK fans who take the time to read that thread. Our board is for all MK games, the site is dedicated to the education of UMK3's gameplay.

"LOL that is my favorite part... Companies try to please all worlds..."

Once again, they don't have to go out of their way to please the drones, it's very easy to please people with no predetermined standards. Anyone who has enough intelligence to complain about gameplay, even on a message board, and in fact accurately complain, because it is possible to complain about things that are fine the way they are, is beyond a casual gamer. You listed something you prefer about MKII, in it's combo system being more challenging. It's NOT more challenging. The controls are definitely sloppy, and sluggish compared to MK3, UMK3, MKT and MK4, and a few notches above MK1. There is a limit of 4 air hits (juggles) and then your character is automatically pushed away, or falls out of the air because they were too lazy to balance the moves. This is why you can cancel it with a special move. They either didn't realize it, or left it in because they know people who actually play the game, and care about the gameplay, would figure it out, and reopen the juggle system.

"sure they would like to please the vast minority fanatics..."

It's not a matter of liking to, they go to the fanatics, there's a more "personal" relationship with the actual players. It is unfortunate that out of all the fighting game franchises, Midway's developement team is the least ability to follow through with anything they say they will do. When arcade games were released, Midway based a lot of their revisions on direct feedback from arcades in the Chicago area, because these are the most hardcore MK players around. Each game was an improvement because of direct feedback. MK4's engine was a complete change, and they tried to keep it as close to UMK3 as possible, but their laziness shined through and they made a total bomb of a fighting game that should have been amazing. Now the console games get far less attention to upgrades and fixes because it can't be done the same way it was in the 90s for arcades. No matter what they put out, a million people are going to buy it. This is what I mean when I say the casual gamers don't influence future games, they only fund them.

"however... the most important thing they want to please is the masses."

I don't think the masses are going to be happy if they have to create every fatality in MKA...

"A company would much rather have a game that is well loved by the public with sound gameplay that sells a few million, then one that is technically great and fails on all other levels and sells 10000."

Well loved is only temporary. Again, no matter what Midway puts out for MK, it's going to sell a million copies. It's guaranteed no matter how bad the game is because a million people want to play it.

"See... this is where the minority of hardcore players simply are less important... sure they will be used to test the game and I am sure that companies hope they like it... but at the end of the day... its about the numbers, not about you."

Every fighting game you've played exists as it is because of the artists' concepts that have nothing to do with what casual fans ask for, and the modifications in gameplay suggested by professionals. Do you think a significant portion of MK fans asked for Death Traps in MKD? No. They were most like a spur of the moment idea someone in the dev team thought up because ring outs exist in other games. MK is different, rather than back, there is a block button, rather than tap dashing, there is a run button, rather than ring outs, there are death traps, even though most of the death traps are ring out related. It's all gimmicks, which have existed since day 1. Getting back to the Death Trap concept, most competitive gamers agree that Death Traps are terrible, get in the way of the game play and are disabled. Casual fans will either care and like them because they are violent, or not care that they exist at all.

"No... I think there is a world of casual gamers who all companies PRIMARY goal is to appeal to."

When Capcom, or Namco releases a game, their main goal is to please the gamers, so people will drop quarters since they still got arcade releases up until a couple years ago. MK is different. It doesn't matter who they please, because they will always sell 1 million copies, regardless of content, or gameplay quality.

"Becasue they dont play them the way you THINK they should be played... sorry... you are not the yardstick by which all should be judged."

Anyone who drops a game for the following one, just because it's new, it's not a serious player. Again, you seem to like to direct your comments directly towards me, but I don't represent myself alone. I represent the majority of fighting game players. Stop thinking this is about me.

"It is a GAME"

Precisely.

"it is fantastic that you take yourself and it so seriously... but others just dont... I am sorry if that upsets you but THAT is a fact... once again.. that doesnt give you any right to impeede others enjoyment of a game."

Again with the "..."s. It seems to upset you just as much that I say MKII is a terrible game, and that UMK3 is far and beyond superior to it. However, you just attack me, while I attack the game. By attacking me, you are also attacking the majority of fighting game players. I am not impeding anyone's enjoyment. I doubt anyone who has read this thread has stopped playing any MK games. I have in fact, in the last few years, opened a lot of eyes to MK, and specifically UMK3. You seem to be new to this whole thing.

"No... here is the difference... they see it as a GAME... thats it... some recreation... you take it as a way of life... thats fine... in reality it is just a GAME"

It's funny how someone can say it's my way of life, it's not like this website is about anything other than Mortal Kombat. Apparently, I don't do anything but play UMK3. Again the "..."s. If it's just a game, then why are you arguing that your emotional attachment to the essence of MKII is just as important as people getting together and playing eachother, and having a good time? You seem to care about the game's feelings.

"No... You look REALLY foolish when you think that multinational companies are just trying to please you and your minority of friends. Sure it would be great if you liked it... however... it is the MASSES that are important... not you. You have a problem with self importance if you think a company's prime objective is to please a small amount of people in this day and age."

You are getting too general with your arguement. Midway is an American company. Capcom is multinational. Capcom's target fanbase is leaps and bounds beyond Midway's in terms of actually playing their games. I still can't believe how much you say "YOU" in terms of direct comments made about me, in reference to what I'm saying being only my opinion, of 1 in 6,300,000,000, or even my friends. There's an uncountable number of people I've never met, or seen, or spoken to who feel the exact same way I do, and not just about MK. The only people they actually TRY to please are the competitive players. The other ones don't even tell them what they want.

"I think you need to let your ego go a bit."

Again, you think this is just about me. You have a narrow view of the big picture. You might think that my view is narrow as well, but that is because I have a better understanding of everything we've discussed.

"You obviously seem to think you are a bit of a game guru"

I am a UMK3 guru, and I play many different fighting games. I know enough about fighting games to be good at any game I play within a few sessions and my own personal experimentation. You cannot be a guru of atmosphere, or the number of colors in a character's costume. dotdotdot

"... good for you... however... most people simply could not care."

Good. And those people are not catered to because of that fact.

"At the end of the day... you think UMK3 is the best ever... well thats just lovely..."

dotdotdot I don't think it's better, it is better by the very definition set forth by the community of fighting game players even if they don't like mortal kombat to begin with dotdotdot certain games are better than others, and there is a way to measure that. You aren't aware of this, and that's fine, but you continue to argue that it's impossible.

"I, whilst I think it is a lovely game, do not... that is fine too. Perhaps it is just time you respect other peoples RIGHTS to an opinion."

You never respected my right to opinion, and you also don't believe facts are facts.

" there are people who know better than you do, and there are facts you need to deal with."

no, there are people who look at the game from a different perspective then I do - there are very few facts involved in peoples likes and dislikes.

There's a huge amount of people who wouldn't even bother trying to talk to you about this since you can't relate. "

Same vice versa. Trust me - most others realise that speaking to you is an exercise in futility. You do not respect the right for others to have opinions and voice them.


"Definitely, UMK3 is a better game than MKII because it has more of the qualities fighting game players desire, thus making it "better" by a measurable means."

I am not disputing at all that UMK3 is better for someone who is taking part in tournaments, and perhaps your measuring and calculations works for what is important to you. But the simple fact is, it does not work for many others - most people are not that formulaic.

"You don't think that it's measurable, because it's beyond your limits of caring."

No, whilst I do think you can be of the opinion that the game is more suited to a fighting game "expert", you cannot say it is better for everyone and therefore best.


" it's 99% of fighting game players."

Which once again form a very small minority in the general game playing populous.

"I have experience, you don't."

You have your experiance, I have mine. It is different.

"It's easy to please casual gaming fans who dabble in fighters because they have little, to no standards and will buy anything."

No if that was the case there are many other fighters out there that would be successful.

"What is this "your perspective" crap. It's not just me, it's almost everyone who plays fighting games."

Well, it is your perspective. You are speaking from the position of a tournament based player. I am not. It is certainly not the only opinion of people playing fighting games - otherwise this thread would not exist and everyone would love UMK3. I am sorry that people like a game that you dont like better then one you do, but thats the way life goes I am afraid. You can make a song and dance and get ridiculous with maths etc, but at the end of the day, none of that matters - it is a matter of opinion


"I've already said this in other threads. If UMK3 were stick figures, with no sounds, no music, no backgrounds, and highlighted collision detection, it would still be a better game than MKII."

I think most people would disagree with you, however, for you Im sure that works - and thats great. Have a great time playing with your stick figures.

"What is important and interesting to fighting game fans, not casual gaming fans, is playing it competitively against other people, bringing them together, having fun, winning money, educating, and building a scene."

Yes, I agree, that is what is more interesting to you. This is what I mean about perspective. I can totally see why you would like UMK3 from your perspective, however you wont accept that others can like other titles from thier perspective

". And no, MKII is simply not found in more arcades, or places that house video games, than UMK3. On my site, DreemerNJ has made a map to locate MK Arcade Games,"

The US is not the only place in the world, I was not speaking from there - I have never been there.

"I don't think the masses are going to be happy if they have to create every fatality in MKA..."

People have been asking for it for ages /shrug


"It seems to upset you just as much that I say MKII is a terrible game, and that UMK3 is far and beyond superior to it. "

No it doesnt upset me at all that you think or say that. However I do think it is very odd that you dont seem to be able to accept other peoples opinions.

" If it's just a game, then why are you arguing that your emotional attachment to the essence of MKII is just as important as people getting together and playing eachother, and having a good time? You seem to care about the game's feelings."

No, see that is where you are getting it so wrong, there is no emotionality involved in this. I am arguing that people are allowed to have differing opinions based on perspective. Also respecting peoples right to an opinion. I think your opinion is no higher or lesser then my own - infact I do find it interesting - I just dont fully agree with it

"You might think that my view is narrow as well, but that is because I have a better understanding of everything we've discussed."

I disagree that you have a better understanding. I cant really speak for your world, you cant really speak for mine.

"I don't think it's better, it is better by the very definition set forth by the community of fighting game players"

Yes - by the deffinition that YOU are interested in and you helped create. This is not set in stone, and in no way means that everyone does or should feel like this. We are all different people with different perspectives on what is imporatant to us and what we like.


"You never respected my right to opinion, and you also don't believe facts are facts."

I always respected your opinion, however, what I did not respect is your attitude that you think your opinion should be gospel. Your "facts" are skewed to cater to the community that you belong. I dont understand how you cannot see this. I am not knocking them - I am just saying that they are from where you enjoy the game.

this is the best quote war i have ever seen.

This has to stop. We all know that MK2 is overrated and a bad game, but that doesn't mean people can't love it. I used to love the game, until I played the superior MK3, and then MK3 got beat by UMK3. But everybody doesn't have to be that way, and opinions are good.

MK2KB has great points, as does the other arguers (hope that's a word, lol). This battle of quotes of saying who's right and wrong isn't getting us anywhere. The topic is about MK2 being overrated, and it should stay that way. We all said the reasons why MK2 is overrated, so this thread is kind of useless now since an argument has started.

All I have to say is that people can love or hate MK2 if they want, even though we all should agree that the game is highly overrated. If you say it isn't, you're just trying to protect your fanboyism to MK2.

So, with that said...

Thread closed.






Fuck, I'm not a mod.

I was once exactly what you are now, until I reached a certain age and developed standards for the games I play, in terms of the game. I use to look at MK exactly like you, but it's such a shallow point of view. I have experience across the board, in your world, and "mine". Don't think I can't understand where you are coming from, and don't act like this is about me, because it's not. It's about people who play fighting games, and know what they are talking about, versus people try out fighting games for "fun".

MK is the only popular fighting game genre that doesn't have a strong competitive base, because people like the gimmicks as well as the fighting. The people who like the gimmicks are the very reason MKII is overrated. You speak as if other fighting game fans look at their games the same way MK fans do theirs. There are players who like similar concepts in other games, but it's not the same with MK fans. The only thing I've ever talked about was the difference in the "game" portion of the game. You cannot argue it, even thought you try. You also have a hard time understanding analogies.

UMK3 is a better fighting game than MKII. MKII is generally not recognized as a fighting game, not even by its fans, because its fans can't explain what they like about the game other than everything that doesn't have to do with the game.

So in the end, I've only been talking about what fighting games do, and you've been talking about what fighting games wear, and say. You are speaking for people who do not treat MK as a fighting game. Why do you think those people matter when talking about the differences in gameplay? All I have ever talked about is a specific group. You try to bring in the general public of gamers, but there is also a general public of fighting game players, which is what I have always talked about.

This is why I said I don't think you fully, truly understood the context of my post a while back.

You cannot back up why MKII is a better game than UMK3 because it isn't, you can only say what you like about it other than the fighting portion, and quite frankly, that doesn't matter when you are comparing games.

I think some people need to realize that MK2KB isn't attacking their opinions. He's just trying to remind people that their opinions are just that - OPINIONS.

There is more to UMK3's gameplay than MK2's. More options in combat, more "rules" that govern the physics and balance the game. Also, you have to consider that the developers specifically addressed problems in MK2 when they created UMK3. These are things that can't really be debated since they are the factual truth.

Now, whether you prefer more or less options in combat, that's your perogative. No one is questioning your right to like one style more than another. No one is questioning your right to have more fond memories of one game over the other. Just know what you're talking about, and know what basis you are actually trying to argue from.

Not to beat a dead horse, because I've used this example before, but I know that Virtua Fighter 4 Evo is one of the best fighters in existence. But the game really just doesn't appeal to me. However I can still acknowledge it's supreme dominance as a fighting game, despite the fact that it doesn't really conform to my gameplay tastes.

But in comparing VF4 to other fighting games, it's a Apples to Oranges example. Here we're talking about MK vs MK, and that's Apples vs Apples... the superiority of one game can actually be determined in this case.

this will become into another closed thread soon so i will post something before thats done.

everyone has the right of his own opinion, no one can change that. if you like MKII more than UMK3 its your right to do that. shock dont say to anyone "hey noobs! you have to like umk3 more than mk2" - he just explains why if you look at gameplay point of view umk3 is better, and it actually is.

look it like this - MK is made to be played against people, can someone denie that? if no, we will go to step 2. if its made to play against people and you are huge mk fan dont you want to be unbeatable to proove yourself?

there are always top tier lists in all mk fighting games, but there are also GOD TIERS, so how can this game be fun if you are competetive player but you are limited to use 1-2 characters? in mk1 its sonya and cage, in mk2 its jax and mileena.

in umk3 the top tier is kabal and hsmoke but the game is builded so that you have a chance to beat kabal with reptile for example - more opportunities based on better gameplay.

if someone play mk games for that reason he just has no right to say that any mk game is better than umk3 since its the most balanced... but if you play mk just because its mk, then again its nothing wrong to like mk2.

the graphics, musics and storyline can be always questionable but still its an own opinion.... but the gameplay is not

"I know more about UMK3 than you do, and I know more about MKII than anyone who has tried to defend it." - No you don't

Bottom Line. - Is that you're a moronic troll

Oh and LoL@ your anger. - Who wouldn't get pissed at your arrogance?

Image removed. And you can consider yourself removed too. Goodbye. tgrant

He knows more about MK2 and MK3 than pretty much anyone here.

Why the hell did you put that link there? That's sick. I'm not going to click it, because I know what it is, but come on. It's there when I quote you.

I see that this thread has run its course of discussion and gotten onto the posting of incredibly vile images.

Have a nice day.

Thread closed.