I don't know if its been brought up yet, but what about Trilogy's aggressor mode? I'd love to see that brought back.

To give the aggressor even more power seems kind of unfair. Depends on the way the game plays though.

It would create problems when you put a fast character against a slow character. Like pitting kung fu vs wrestling.

The Kung fu guy would be on aggressor most of the time, and the wrestler would maybe get it one time.

It would work if all the fighters were basically the same, like they are in MKDA. But if it was a game like Tekken or VF, it would be a bit unfair.


So I would say that if the game is like MKDA then it would be fine, but if it was more like Tekken, it would cause problems.

I think in a very real style game like tekken, it would be better to just do a power up like in Tekken 3 and Soul Calibur.

That way every character has the ability to use it in a more balanced way.

Some air throws could be implemented.

standing air throws, and aerial air throws.



A standing air throw is when you are standing on the ground and you grab the opponent out of the air.

Examples of this move are in
DOA3 = Leon
SC2 = Astroth
Tekken 5 = Craig. You can see Craig do an air throw in the Tekken 5 trailer.


Ways to implement this to MK so it looks like an "MK thing".

Have Jax grab the opponent's leg when they are air born, then he can do his Multiple slams move.
-----------------------------
Scorpion

1= spear toss, then yank down hard to slam the opponent at scorpion's feet.

Like IVY Does in SC and SC2. >+V,up

2= Spear toss, then swing around and opponent goes flying. It would look similar to Spider man's Web toss in Marvel VS capcom.

If you are close to a wall, instead of sending the opponent flying, scorpion would swing them around, and slam them in to the wall, or whatever object is in the way.


If they made the jump kick work like in MK4, then scorpion could have his old style air throw too.
----------------------------------

Some wrestler could do a jumping tackle grab the opponent out of the air and take them to the ground and mount them for extra attacks.

-----------------------
Sub Zero

He could freeze the opponent's feet real fast, and then they will have trouble standing up when they hit the ground.

So sub zero would have extra time to attack them while they are on the ground.

-----------------------------

Baraka

Close range air throw = He would so a left uppercut with his blade sticking out. He would stab the opponent, and then slam them to the ground sort of like how you throw a baseball.

This move could also work against a standing opponent. He would stab them through the head, lift them up, and slam them.

-------------------------------------------

Kenshi

1 = Gravity X 100 slam = He would do the second part of Fujin's lift and slam move. The opponent would slam HARD to the ground, and they would not bounce. They would then have a hard time getting up.

2 = Telle Toss He would move his arm and the opponent would fly in that direction.

He could toss them
Forward
Left
Right
or Up very high = If the room has a ceiling, the opponent will hit it.

this move would work only when the opponent is in the air.

-----------------------------------------
Noob

A variation of the teleport slam from MKT. Something that looks more devastating.

The teleport could be that he starts to jump with one arm up, like Reiko's teleport. But before he leaves the ground, he explodes in to some black gas, like Night crawler in the Xmen movie. then he would appear by the opponent's head continuing the jump animation. It would be a very fast move.

The throw it self could be like kung lao's throw in MK3, but with one arm. Then Noob would do one extra flip after the slam while he is landing.

You would hear Noob grunt like if he was straining. Nnnnnnnnnnyaaah!!!

This one would look awesome.
------------------------------------------

There are a lot more possibilities for this type of attack.

well, there r a lot of good and brilliant ideas around here. but who of u really thinks the dev team will implement our ideas?? i guess the development of MK:D is nearly finished, they ́re just doing some work on costumes, and stages maybe. but implementing new things relating to the fighting system, would take too much time and work at this point.

just think about it...

guess we ́ll have to wait until MK:7

Sadly,thats very true.

Well, yeah obviously right.

These ideas can be used for future games, MKD is not going to change now, it's too late for that.

Let's see... Where do I start?

MKDA's fighting engine sucks. Period. Let me repeat: Mortal. Kombat. Deadly. Alliance's. Fighting. System. Sucks. Period. Yes, it is an opinion. Mine. No need to tell me. But this is also the opinions of most of the seemingly sensible and well-respected members of this messageboard and site, as well as every other fighting game fan community outside of this one.

Now that that's out of the way, let's move on.

I really think the Mortal Kombat Team does not has the ability to pull what some of you people are saying off, but I guess it doesn't hurt to suggest things in case something miraculous happens and they start dishing out decent material.

Most of what should be in MK has already been mentioned, so I'll focus on something not discussed a lot that pertains a lot to the gameplay aspect of MKD.


Most of you that talk about just-frame moves, hit detection, reversal detection/timing and such, should remember where the majority of the determining factor of the discussed subject comes from: Animation. As we've all seen in the Mortal Kombat: Deception trailers, the animation looks as crappy as ever. Without smooth-flowing, fluid animation, just-frame moves and such cannot be possible. Actually, they can, but they will most likely be horribly implemented. The animation should be on the same level on the scale of priorities as the fighting engine. The fighting engine cannot be what you hope for it to be without better animation. The stances should look much more believable. Someone using the Dragon or Snake stance does not look like the way Sub-Zero and Shang Tsung does, unless they're constipated or have their pressure points ravaged or something...


The file might not download unless you go to Arcade Pimp and register.

Click the above picture to watch a Tekken 4 combo video. Watch it normally, then watch it in slow motion, then pause every frame and examine it, and repeat 99 more times. More specifically, watch Lei Wulong (The Chinese cop wearing the blue jacket, for you scrubs who refuse touch nothing but MK). He has 4 Kung Fu Animal Stances, if I remember right. If you're really good, you'll see him shift into a few of them (Yes, you have to look for them. There are no stance names that appear on the bottom side of their character's screen for the memory-challenged). One of the stances he shifts into is Snake, the same style Shang Tsung has from MKDA. Because it's a high-level combo video, he moves in and out of stances quickly, only switching to them to pull off a quick string of attacks, so watch carefully. Look at how he moves and looks in the stance. Look at how he attacks. Look at this and compare it to Shang Tsung's. Go on. Fire up your copy of MKDA and compare it. I'll wait. Actually, I won't, but compare it. Scrubs will not see the difference. People who've actually played a decent fighter for a while might, and probably will. Now, don't compare the styles, but the overall animation. Look at how the opponent reacts when hit from different attacks in different positions.

The same goes for weapon combat. Take a look at another video. Yes, MK's weapon styles might never be this nice and cool, but improving the garbage they have now would be a REALLY, REALLY nice start.

All I have to say is that the MK Team should hire a new set of animators, or the current ones need to relearn how to animate properly. Through better animation, better move tracking, hit properties, reversals, and the like will be much, much better. We don't need f***ing traffic lights telling us when the best time would be to do this or do that. If the animation is excellent there would be no need for that. The animation should be the on first and most focused-on part. The second should be the programming.

The animation needs major variety, be it throws, simple strikes, jumping, crouching, backing up, moving forward, running, prone position, back turned, etc. Every character should have a different animation for each of those categories and more. Winning poses should match the character and not be some generic nonsense. An introduction pose should be included (Looks like it won't be. Expected, as usual...) And as mentioned earlier, the character being hit should react as such, from the different possible postions he/she can be hit from. Running and walking should be animated differently based on a combination of the fighter's personality and the style the character is in (For the record, running should be handled the way SC2's is: By holding forward or double-tapping forward, the character runs immediately. This makes for a much more heated match instead of the slow forward-walk. Walking should only be present in background/foreground movement and retreating. Retreating should be much slower than any other movement, and even slower when a character holds a heavier weapon, whatever it may be). The throws should have the feel of the character in it. For example, Sub-Zero could grab an opponent, and freeze his/her torso upon contact, then grab the opponent's leg and swing him/her around twice, then upwards, followed by a slam to the ground, shattering the ice and damaging the opponent. If throws are handled like that in a more colorful fashion, projectile attacks could be dealt away with altogether, and be represented in throws. Speaking of projectiles, they need more variety and should be more recognizable as a move of a specific character. If people want projectile usage in high-level matches, have the projectiles come in all shapes and sizes, effects, disadvantages and advantages. They should be unblockable too, to have at least a bit of a danger factor to them. Example, Scorpion could burn his spear and swing it around in a horizontal fashion, while taking a few steps forward. It can be avoided by crouching. The advantage is that it can't be sidestepped and it stretches far. The disadvantage is that he's walking forward, and the number of times he revolves the burning spear takes a while. If crouch movement was possible, the opponent could crouch-advance toward Scorpion as he's walking closer, and probably pull off whatever attack, possibly a WS attack ala Tekken/VF4/SC2. On a side note, buffering combos into projectiles would be really nice.

That's all I wanted to say.

Don't bother replying. I won't be here to read it. Don't start with the "You haven't played it yet" nonsense. Currently, MKD probably has about 4 months until it's release. Most of what we've seen in the E3 trailers have probably been tweaked and balanced out, meaning that they're probably not going to scrap and rebuild the animation/gameplay engine. They're probably polishing the "Awesome and Outstanding" extra modes they worked so hard on, and tweaking certain things. MKD will be more or less what was shown at E3, just with a few improvements and tweaks, just like Deadly Alliance. Using that as an excuse doesn't help. So don't bother.

Sorry if the post comes off as harsh, but it expresses my irritation (And probably many others') of the realization of the MK Team seemingly repeating the same mistakes they did with MKDA, and the several members of the site that blindly support them, and disregard or retaliate against anything negative said about MK. MK Team, including traffic lights, a switch throw, speedier movement, bells and whistles, and a slew of minigames isn't enough.

Yes, I know that the MK Team is actually working hard on this project. The problem here is the direction of where they're inputting this hard work.

By the way, this is not a "My Return" post. I was in the neighborhood and decided to drop by, so to speak. I took the time to read a few things, especially most of this thread. It took a while, but there were several excellent points and suggestions. Too bad they're all probably for naught.

If MKD is still like it looks like now, and most of you still blindly follow it, I will do as most of these fighting game vets have promised to do. I'll rent the game, figure out ways to manipulate the poor engine, and use my findings against you. When you complain and cry about a new Bo Rai Cho or Frost infinite, and how scrubby I am, I'll give you the link to this thread and chuckle, then I'll log out and return the game. I'll even get a new USB Headset just so you can hear my chuckle.

As for the rest of you people, if Tekken 5 is online (Psst. See the trailer! ), I'll see you then...

PS: Some of you really should try Tekken, Soul Calibur, or Virtua Fighter for more than a couple of hours. I can understand that VF won't appeal to most of you because it's a pure fighting sim (What a fighting game should be. Storylines and the like are all extras), and it's extremely technical. If you can't derive fun from playing VF, Tekken and SC will suit your tastes more.

Most of you will probably say you play MKD for the extras, the storyline, and the gore, not a better fighting engine. You label the characters in SC and Tekken as souless, yet they seem to have more soul in the actual fights than MK (Mostly Soul Calibur). Tekken actually doesn't have much soul, in-game, but SC does. The characters show anger, frustration, joy, and such, through in-game facial animation and decent voice acting. This makes the characters recognizable and memorable, in some instances. I've seen casual gamers pick up MKDA, play as Li Mei, then play as Kitana, and think that they're the same person, because of the reused voices, and they emotionless way they fight. Then they pick up Soul Calibur, play it, and ask someone "Where's the guy that talks smack and has that really thin sword?" or "Where's that happy girl in the blue?" These are all actual questions I've heard. See? They recognize SC characters, because they exhibit "soul" through the in game match, the intro animation, and the ending animation. They play MKDA, and see two characters in different martial arts styles, pounding the crap out of each other for no reason whatsoever. Keep in mind that they are casual gamers, and probably don't know about the game's storyline.

Even in terms of storyline, you say MK's is the best. That's fine. I think the storyline is there, but isn't implemented into the actual game well. One just fights several enemies, beats the boss, and there's the ending. There are no rivalry matches with added in-game cutscenes like Tekken 4 or Soul Calibur 2. Sometimes, you never see a character fighting his/her rival or enemy in the game at all. Maybe MK should be an RPG. It suits MK better. Even though most RPGs own MK with its' storylines, it would probably appeal to those that only play the game for the storyline.

MK currently is a fighter, and should be as such. Not a poor fighting engine that has attention drawn from it because of the many mini games.

As someone already stated, if you want a storyline, play Final Fantasy. If you want character designs, play Guilty Gear XX. If you want blood and gore, search far and wide for Thrill Kill and play it. If you want the mini games, stick with MKD.

oooooooo now thats a long post.

Basically I agree with everything said, until now I think I was the only one to touch upon the whole better stances in Tekken than MK, just because they're labelled with fighting stances doesn't mean they're any good, I like Hwoarang stances better than most, he may be a useful character for a lot of button mashers out there, but in the hands of an expert who can go through these stances, Hwoarang is one of the best characters.

Idk if this was mentioned yet I missed a lot of this thread so sorry if it has been mentioned what about ground attacks. As ur opponents on the ground u can grab there feet and throw em or kick em or something cool.

I don't have to many ideas so if this hasen't been covered yet add ur thoughts.

That was an extremely insightful post, SWB, and I agree it was necessary to put your "retirment" on the line to post this. Intelligent people will understand what people like you,myself,bleed,tony,FSTYLE,HDTran and others are trying to say. It's a shame that most people like Baraka056 or whatever the numbers are will continuously say that we're trying to make MK something it's not, as if MK was ever about the gameplay really. Now baraka, that was not an insult because I've really come to respect that you are slowly but surely seeing our points and that we're not a bunch of stark raving lunatics trying to insult Mortal Kombat to be "hardcore", but you still can't seem to COMPLETELY grasp that MKDA's system really does suck. Really dude..just go back and play it..lol. No disrespect to ya tho.

BTW Baraka, thanks a lot for replying to my shit. I for a second thought a lot of it went unread because no one really commented on it, but I guess atleast you read it. Im not trying to brag, but I know for sure there is a LOT of good shit in there.

Wow, long post from starwinderbeta, and completely factual. Opinion isn't in that.

Unfortunately, we'll probably never see the day when MK will become an awesome competitive fighter with so many of these features.

Everyone who says that they don't want MK to become like those other fighters should realize that all those other fighters didn't mimic each other's style. Let me explain. Virtua Fighter, Tekken and Toshinden were the first fighters to walk into the realm of 3D, right? They don't feel like each other even though they incorporate similar basics. Things as basic as punching and kicking. You'd be nuts to try argue that MK was attempting to be like Street Fighter because they can punch in both games. Even after that you have Soul Blade/Edge and Soul Calibur. Those came out after the first three games I mentioned above and the Soul games don't feel like the others. Even Tekken, made by the same developer, doesn't feel like Soul Calibur. They all have different styles but all the basics are there.

Things as basic as throwing a punch, swinging a sword, proper frame calculations, movement, move properties, etc. It's all there but wrapped nicely in the style of the game. Substance makes a solid foundation. Style adds character.

It's like pro wrestling. Pro wrestlers are basically stunt men. They know how to give a hit without hurting someone and how to take a hit without being hurt. That's the substance. The foundation. The style is the personality of the character. The Rock, for example, has a style. If you're just substance without style you'll end up boring. But if you're style without substance you're going to get hurt or hurt someone else. The Rock has a style and so does Hulk Hogan. But they share the basics of pro wrestling. They have the same substance. Is The Rock "like" Hulk Hogan? Is he a clone? Hell no. They're completely different because of their own styles.

You can ride a bike and so can I because we have the same substance. We know how to ride it. But your bike is red and mine is blue. You ride an exercise bike and I ride a mountain bike. You ride on the street and I ride on the sidewalk. We share substance but not style. We're not the same. In order to qualify as bikers though we had to have learned the BASICS of bike riding.

Saying you don't want MK to be like those other games doesn't make sense because those other games aren't even like each other.

Is this the official MK Bash thread or something. You guys need to learn a thing or two about MK, ITS NOT LIKE OTHER FIGHTING GAMES, ITS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TYPE OF FIGHTING GAME. If you want to keep saying Virtua Fighter is better than MK, then fine, it is, but for gods sake, do you have to repeat the same things over and over again!? I must have seen at least 3 dozen posts that MK's gameplay sucks. WE...GET...IT. And one more thing, if you think MK sucks so much, then why did you join MKO anyway? Go start your own VF fan club and stop bashing MK!

NoObSaIbOt777 Wrote: Is this the official MK Bash thread or something. You guys need to learn a thing or two about MK, ITS NOT LIKE OTHER FIGHTING GAMES, ITS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TYPE OF FIGHTING GAME. If you want to keep saying Virtua Fighter is better than MK, then fine, it is, but for gods sake, do you have to repeat the same things over and over again!? I must have seen at least 3 dozen posts that MK's gameplay sucks. WE...GET...IT. And one more thing, if you think MK sucks so much, then why did you join MKO anyway? Go start your own VF fan club and stop bashing MK!

MK bashing?!

WTF?!


We're giving ideas on how MK can be better!

NoObSaIbOt777 Wrote: Is this the official MK Bash thread or something. You guys need to learn a thing or two about MK, ITS NOT LIKE OTHER FIGHTING GAMES, ITS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TYPE OF FIGHTING GAME. If you want to keep saying Virtua Fighter is better than MK, then fine, it is, but for gods sake, do you have to repeat the same things over and over again!? I must have seen at least 3 dozen posts that MK's gameplay sucks. WE...GET...IT. And one more thing, if you think MK sucks so much, then why did you join MKO anyway? Go start your own VF fan club and stop bashing MK!

There's more than one type of fighting game? There's me thinking the whole point of fighting games were that they'll all about fighting, not to mention that they're all 3D.

There's a lot of people who've said this and I can't be bothered argueing so i'll just leave it at this

you have misunderstood the point of this thread, the points we are making and why we are saying what we are.

If you're going to be part of this thread you have to back up what you are saying, you can't just barge in saying random stuff, I personally am offended you think I'd "bash" one of my favourite series.

As a wise man once said "we are trying to make MK better by suggesting ideas, by stopping us voicing them you are preventing the series you claim to love from improving therefore making you a non-true mk fan."

TonyTheTiger Wrote: Everyone who says that they don't want MK to become like those other fighters should realize that all those other fighters didn't mimic each other's style. Let me explain. Virtua Fighter, Tekken and Toshinden were the first fighters to walk into the realm of 3D, right? They don't feel like each other even though they incorporate similar basics. Things as basic as punching and kicking. You'd be nuts to try argue that MK was attempting to be like Street Fighter because they can punch in both games. Even after that you have Soul Blade/Edge and Soul Calibur. Those came out after the first three games I mentioned above and the Soul games don't feel like the others. Even Tekken, made by the same developer, doesn't feel like Soul Calibur. They all have different styles but all the basics are there. Things as basic as throwing a punch, swinging a sword, proper frame calculations, movement, move properties, etc. It's all there but wrapped nicely in the style of the game. Substance makes a solid foundation. Style adds character. It's like pro wrestling. Pro wrestlers are basically stunt men. They know how to give a hit without hurting someone and how to take a hit without being hurt. That's the substance. The foundation. The style is the personality of the character. The Rock, for example, has a style. If you're just substance without style you'll end up boring. But if you're style without substance you're going to get hurt or hurt someone else. The Rock has a style and so does Hulk Hogan. But they share the basics of pro wrestling. They have the same substance. Is The Rock "like" Hulk Hogan? Is he a clone? Hell no. They're completely different because of their own styles. You can ride a bike and so can I because we have the same substance. We know how to ride it. But your bike is red and mine is blue. You ride an exercise bike and I ride a mountain bike. You ride on the street and I ride on the sidewalk. We share substance but not style. We're not the same. In order to qualify as bikers though we had to have learned the BASICS of bike riding. Saying you don't want MK to be like those other games doesn't make sense because those other games aren't even like each other.

Good point.

Style is what matters. The MK Team can just utilize the features of other fighting games and put an MK theme to it.

Sorry, I overreacted, it's just that I've seen like 4 threads on other sites that bash MK and say that VF or SC2 wipe the floor with it and MK can't do well in 3D, blah,blah,blah, and I'm tired of it. And when I said different kind of fighter, I meant that MK has more depth, more story, an actual mythology, etc. And I know they need to work on gameplay and whatnot to make it more realistic (wish list includes wounds and clothing damage). So once again, sorry.

couldn ́t we start a petition or something???

i think we should take the best points out of this thread and mail em to the dev team, followed by a petition and we all and (of course) many other players/fans declare that we are all willed to wait for MKD until it ́s DONE!! and it shall be done the kind we, the fans want it!!!

as u know, the real fans will buy MKD, i will too.
but as we also know, most of us will be disapointed, coz the fightingengine / the animation suxx!!!

i would love to wait for MKD if i can get a better game then it ́s now!!

what about you??

How can you say that the gameplay sucks when it hasn't even come out yet??? Isn't there a proverb for that
"Don't count your birds until they hatch, but they have sucky gameplay anyway"

MK sells millions of copies. A petition wouldn't work unless you get millions, or at least 100,000 signatures. And even then, it'd be taken with a grain of salt since what's a list of names supposed to mean? Would these people even have bought the game to begin with or are they signing it so the person asking them to will leave them alone? The best hope is not to demand something from the MK team directly but to discuss things on this thread. We all know Midway employees visit and we need to hope at least one of them with some clout takes it all to heart and can make something happen. The sad part is that we nearly had all of that with Ray and look what happened. That's why so many people here are becoming more frustrated. I'm starting to come to the realization that the only way that MK could turn around the way we all hope it can is if Ed Boon himself, or at least Vogel, Pesina, or someone who's been with the team for the long haul comes to the rescue. Otherwise it'll be a Ray situation all over again with them saying, "You don't like it then leave!". *Sigh* I hope Ed Boon's attitude isn't similar to many board members here. "You don't like MK then get out!"...No reasoning with that I'm afraid.

Versatile or flexible or whatever your name is, I believe that you guys want to make MK better. I'm not an idiot, I understand, I get it. I'm arguing with you guys over the level of change and the type of change that some people are pushing.

All I've been saying this whole time is to keep the series identity and uniqueness. Expand on tradition, but keep that as it's core. All the throws and crap that I keep hearing honestly make it sound like some people want MK to be a Tekken ripoff. The fact that everyone seems to use Tekken as a comparison tool only illustrates my point. I'll say this again as well, not every 3D fighting game has to fit into a Tekken model or a Soul calubir model.

For as many innovative ideas as there have been in this thread, there have also been many ideas that are ripped directly from other games. While some people seem to think "every game is doing it" is a good reason, as I've said, I don't buy that.

I am for improvement. Better animation, more useful moves, etc, but I guess the fundamental disagreement here is the overall distance MK needs to travel to be great. To me, MK:DA was fun, I've played almost every fighting game ever made and mastered a lot of them, but I keep coming back to MK because the style AND gameplay are fun for me. I think that MK needs to evolve some more, but I don't think that MK:DA was the rotton turd that some (not all) make it out to be.

But in all honesty, I know you guys like the series, even the people that come out with the uber-original line of "MK:DA sucked, period." at least like the series and want to make it better. I like alot of the ideas that have come up in this thread, but don't bash me just because I don't conform to every idea and thought that people on the same side all advocate. Like I said, I get it...MK can be better than what it is, but in my humble opinion, it can change in moderation, within it's own universe, without having to copy other games.

starwinderbeta:
That is what I am talking about. This IS a fighter fan. This guy came in a gave one of the MOST beautiful posts i have ever seen on this site.

That brought a smile to my face. And he posted EXMAPLES so all you scrubs can actually SEE how MK is lacking.

God that shit was great.

It's just that most of things that should be in a good fighting game have already been done.

You can't really get around that.

Pretty much all you can do is use the same basic concepts and mold them to your desired style.

Most of it is just basic stuff.

Just try and think of something 100% original that is not a variation of something else and that has never been done before.

Can you think of anything? It's very hard to use just original stuff without compromising the quality of the game.

But seriously, just try and come up with something truly original. I'm trying to think of new stuff to post too, but it's hard.

Why did MK take out the run button?

That shit was INSTANT rushdown.

I still say if MK had kept on with the MK4 engine and built off that, we would be awaiting one of the greatest fighters of all time.

The time spent to develop a established system of the MK2-3-4 era to be thrown out and started new with 3D is where they went wrong IMO.

MK does not need new concepts. The just need to do the shit they have now in a proper form. MK has ALL the tools it needs to be a contender. They just need to work at it.

I think the run should be back too, I miss it.