HDTran Wrote: There's still a big difference however. In the 2d MK's everything was pretty useful. In MKDA, there is only one useful low attack or one useful option for anything with canned chains. In a 3d game, the reason you have a bigger movelist is because moves have properties, allow you to get certain things from moves other than speed/delay/damage ratio. But in MKDA, there are no such states and there are no reasons for doing things such as using 80% of the moves that exist. Because if you think about it, if you can use your fastest/safest/most damaging low, why would you use anything else? Especially the non-safe ones? You wouldn't. In 2d, MK didn't have this problem because everything was generic, but still used. In 3d, moves need properties to have usage. Otherwise there is no reason to use most of the moves because they just aren't as effective. This isn't complexity, it's 3d basics.

There is a difference I will agree, but even in the 2-D MK there were more safer/useful moves then others. I also think the difference isn't that big, it's bigger then the 2-D MKs but not like you claim.

I didn't want to say anything since MrS told me to keep it under wraps but since the story was already broken I may as well say that Ray will land on his feet. I bought Psi-Ops and it's really fun. Even just screwing around tossing people into things holds my attention. As for Ed Boon, after talking to MrS, I started thinking of other reasons why John Tobias could have left. Maybe there were other factors that obviously people don't want to make public. It's good PR to say things like "I just felt I needed to move on" as opposed to something like "We don't get along anymore". Whatever. I don't know Ed Boon personally so I can't in good conscience make any speculations. This is a low blow to everyone who genuinely wanted a better MK. I really didn't think it would happen this way. I figured the worst scenario that could have happened was that someone would have said that Ray didn't have enough influence so MK:D would be little more than DA with interactivity. Not that he would have been fired. But these threads weren't a waste. The things I learned about fighting games are invaluable and since I plan on getting into game design myself, I know that my games will be better directly because of these boards and the people I learned from. I hope others have gotten as much from this as I have.

TonyTheTiger Wrote: I didn't want to say anything since MrS told me to keep it under wraps but since the story was already broken I may as well say that Ray will land on his feet. I bought Psi-Ops and it's really fun. Even just screwing around tossing people into things holds my attention. As for Ed Boon, after talking to MrS, I started thinking of other reasons why John Tobias could have left. Maybe there were other factors that obviously people don't want to make public. It's good PR to say things like "I just felt I needed to move on" as opposed to something like "We don't get along anymore". Whatever. I don't know Ed Boon personally so I can't in good conscience make any speculations. This is a low blow to everyone who genuinely wanted a better MK. I really didn't think it would happen this way. I figured the worst scenario that could have happened was that someone would have said that Ray didn't have enough influence so MK:D would be little more than DA with interactivity. Not that he would have been fired. But these threads weren't a waste. The things I learned about fighting games are invaluable and since I plan on getting into game design myself, I know that my games will be better directly because of these boards and the people I learned from. I hope others have gotten as much from this as I have.

diffinately, this thread has opened my eyes to what makes a good game in general, a game can have all the extra modes it wants, but if the core of the game is lacking then then there's some problems that need addressing.

I always thought there was something that was less appealing about MK than there was with other games, but I couldn't put my finger on it, but the amount of gameplay ideas that have been voiced in the thread have done it for me, good job people, if the games themselves can't be changed then at least the people buying them can, here's hoping for a good fighting MK in the future if Deception fails to deliver.

Ok more ideas for a counter system.



They could make use of a parry system, sort of like in street fighter 3. It would look pretty good and would keep the game moving fast.

A parry might cause the opponents combo to pause for a couple frames, but would not stop the combo completely.

That just came to mind last night, when I was watching an old school kung fu movie. In the movie, when they fought, they would attack and block then repeat. But they would do a short pause whenever they blocked an attack.

The speed of the block and attack strings was like that of a clock. Tick, tock, tick, tock.....

You could combine that look with the Jet li style fights that go real fast and smooth while blocking.

A Parry like that would take more skill to use. You could only do it on the first attack, against SLOW combos while being hit, or while blocking. The combos could also have specific break points, so you can parry, or block while being hit. Like the break points in the Tekken strings. You could combine that with a STAMINA METER, it might work better with that.

The stamina meter could be sort of like the dizzy meter in Street fighter. The more you are hit or the more you block, the lower it goes.

Level 1 = low = You are dazed, and can't break out of combos like in MKDA. More attacks will make you dizzy. Specific Med and strong and some counter attacks attacks can stun you like in DOA3.

Level 2 = med = You can block combos at break points while being hit. Some counter attacks can stun you like in DOA3.

Level 3 = Max = You can block, parry, or reverse combos while being hit at BREAK POINTS only. So it's not as easy as in DOA3. You can NOT be stunned when at level 3.

You would have to combine your parry with a rock paper scissors technique to break combos with SPECIFIC regular attacks. Like if your opponent's combo is:

High punch, High punch, hop snap kick, like scorpion's 2,2,4.
You could parry it like this.

You have a list of attacks that can beat others. Like a side kick, can beat a high punch. So if your opponent has that side kick, or a sweep..... you would use it to attack after you parry the first 2 punches. You have to do it real fast, like at the same speed you dial a combo.

To counter the last attack with that technique, you would be able to use any of your attacks because you don't have to worry about any more stringed attacks that would be able to beat your counter attack.

You could also have it with automatic counter attacks, like for example in street fighter Alpha 3. You block, then tap > + weak Punch + weak kick.

Or in Virtua fighter 2 Akira's reversal works like a parry. When the opponent attacks, you tap Block, then tap >+punch for a reversal attack. You have to do it fast.

You could look at this like the way you do the side step attack in VF4. In VF4 you side step, and tap Blk+P+K to do a side step attack.

To use this sort of technique in MK for a parry you would tap >, then 1+2 to throw a punch, or >, 3+4 to throw a kick.

These would be preset attacks that would be safer like a regular reversal and could have special properties, like a stun hit, cause more damage, combo starter, knock down hit, a pop up, frame advantage......etc.

But then your opponent would be able to parry your counter attack, the same as in SC2, or the same as a Chicken in Tekken. The Chicken in Tekken is when you break out of a reversal, for those who don't know.

The parry could have a quick flinch animation sort of like the reversals in Tekken or VF, so they last a little longer which would make them about as easy to use as a regular reversal.

You could tap Block+< or Block+> to do it, or it could be frame sensitive. If you tap Block within 3 frames, you will flinch and if attacked during that flinch, you will parry the attack.

It could also be that when you press block, if you just hold it like normal, the first 3 frames while blocking will be HOT = you will do a parry.

If you TAP block, the parry will last like 5 frames, if you just hold block it will last for like 3 frames.

You can do the tap parry like 1 time per second like a regular reversal in tekken.

If you do it too fast, you will just block, and you can be hit while your finger is off the button while tapping fast. So you have to be careful how and when you use it.

If you tap guard once per second, your character will do a smooth flinch animation or something so that it doesn't look rough or fake.

Again, a parry would not stop the combo, only delay the next attack for a couple frames.

I'd like a parry that works both ways, with basic attacks, and with preset attacks.

They could also do the Reversals like in VF or Tekken on the first attack, or while blocking. Or during break points while on level 3 in the stamina meter.

If they use the reversal, it should be different depending on the characters style, and they should pay close attention to each one and see what can be done with them to make them special.



Also, it shouldn't be too hard to use the parry with the rock paper scissors technique.

The same way you learn how to do a combo, you would learn what attacks can break them.

A beginner should be able to figure it out pretty fast.


I just typed this stuff as it came to mind so if someone wants to refine it go ahead.

Bleed Wrote: Ok more ideas for a counter system. They could make use of a parry system, sort of like in street fighter 3. It would look pretty good and would keep the game moving fast. A parry might cause the opponents combo to pause for a couple frames, but would not stop the combo completely. That just came to mind last night, when I was watching an old school kung fu movie. In the movie, when they fought, they would attack and block then repeat. But they would stop real quick whenever the blocked an attack. You could combine that look with the Jet li style fights that go real fast and smooth while blocking. A Parry like that would take more skill to use. You could only do it on the first attack, against SLOW combos while being hit, or while blocking. The combos could also have specific break points, so you can parry, or block while being hit. Like the break points in the Tekken strings. You could combine that with a STAMINA METER, it might work better with that. The stamina meter could be sort of like the dizzy meter in Street fighter. The more you are hit or the more you block, the lower it goes. Level 1 = low = You are dazed, and can't break out of combos like in MKDA. More attacks will make you dizzy. Specific Med and strong and some counter attacks attacks can stun you like in DOA3. Level 2 = med = You can block combos at break points while being hit. Some counter attacks can stun you like in DOA3. Level 3 = Max = You cab block, parry, or reverse combos while being hit at BREAK POINTS only. So it's not as easy as in DOA3. You can NOT be stunned when at level 3. You would have to combine your parry with a rock paper scissors technique to break combos with SPECIFIC regular attacks. Like if your opponent's combo is: High punch, High punch, hop snap kick, like scorpion's 2,2,4. You could parry it like this. You have a list of attacks that can beat others. Like a side kick, can beat a high punch. So if your opponent has that side kick, or a sweep..... you would use it to attack after you parry the first 2 punches. You have to do it real fast, like at the same speed you dial a combo at. To counter the last attack with that technique, you would be able to use any of your attacks because you don't have to worry about any more stringed attacks that would be able to beat your counter attack. You could also have it with automatic counter attacks, like for example in street fighter Alpha 3. You block, then tap > + weak Punch + weak kick. Or in Virtua fighter 2 Akira's reversal works like a parry. When the opponent attacks, you tap Block, then tap >+punch for a reversal attack. You have to do it fast. You could look at this like the way you do the side step attack in VF4. In VF4 you side step, and tap Blk+P+K to do a side step attack. To use this sort of technique in MK for a parry you would tap >, then 1+2 to throw a punch, or >, 3+4 to throw a kick. These would be preset attacks that would be safer like a regular reversal and could have special properties, like a stun hit, cause more damage, combo starter, knock down hit, a pop up, frame advantage......etc. But then your opponent would be able to parry your counter attack, the same as in SC2, or the same as a Chicken in Tekken. The Chicken in Tekken is when you break out of a reversal, for those who don't know. The parry could have a quick flinch animation sort of like the reversals in Tekken or VF, so they last a little longer which would make them about as easy to use as a regular reversal. You could tap Block+ to do it, or it could be frame sensitive. If you tap Block within 3 frames, you will flinch and if attacked during that flinch, you will parry the attack. You can do the parry like 1 time per second. If you do it too fast, you will just block, and you can be hit while your finger if off the button while tapping fast. So you have to be careful how and when you use it. If you tap guard once per second, your character will do a smooth flinch animation or something so that it doesn't look rough or fake. Again, a parry would not stop the combo, only delay the next attack for a couple frames. I'd like a parry that works both ways, with basic attacks, and with preset attacks. They you could also do the Reversals like in VF or Tekken on the first attack, or while blocking. Or during break points while on level 3 in the stamina meter. If they use the reversal, it should be different depending on the characters style, and they should pay close attention to each one and see what can be done with them to make them special. Also, it shouldn't be too hard to use the parry with the rock paper scissors technique. The same way you learn how to do a combo, you would learn what attacks can break them. A beginner should be able to figure it out pretty fast. I just typed this stuff as it came to mind so if someone wants to refine it go ahead.

Nice Idea dude. Man a lots gone here flaming etc... A lot of good ideas and yes this game needs a more in depth fighter it lacked a lot in DA but lets give MK a chance in this game I bet we'll be suprised but if not they need a lot of these ideas.

Thanks

I just noticed I had a bunch of typos in there. How'd I miss that???

What do you guys think about the auto run in SC2 and in Tao feng?

Where you hold forward and instead of walking, you run.

Personally I hardly ever walk in tekken or VF.

I'm always doing quick steps, or just running.

Maybe it's just because you walk so slow in those games.

I like the walking speed in MKDA much better than in VF or Tekken.

But what if MK had an auto run?

Bleed Wrote: What do you guys think about the auto run in SC2 and in Tao feng? Where you hold forward and instead of walking, you run. Personally I hardly ever walk in tekken or VF. I'm always doing quick steps, or just running. Maybe it's just because you walk so slow in those games. I like the walking speed in MKDA much better than in VF or Tekken. But what if MK had an auto run?

Well I hate the walking speed in MK, but not as much as I hate the Tekken one..now that shit is slow. Both games need a lil speed up.

The good thing about Tekken, however ,is that with movement you don't really notice the fact that they move forward slowly. f,f~ssr~f,f~ssl~b,etc. The characters flow just works so well and allows for so many mind games that you really don't notice that REGULAR movement is slow because advanced movement is what you really do 90% of the time. However, since there is no real movement other than regular movement in MKDA, you don't notice it at all.

It was the same in other genres too. Think of all of Square's games prior to around 1999. They all had a run feature that required you to hold down a button to actually run. But they realized that nobody actually walked since it was so slow. So when they made FFVIII they swapped it and made running the default and if you wanted to walk you would hold the button down. Fighting games are similar in that whatever feels more natural in terms of speed and usage should be easier to do like the auto run. Not to mention with the size of the stages in Deception who the hell wants to walk around those things?

That's what I was thinking, in cases like the forward movement, moves that are hardly ever used could just be replaced by the ones that are used most of the time.

If MK had the auto run like in Tao feng or SC, I wouldn't have any problem with it.

Maybe when holding block, you can walk forward or backwards like in SC2, but the walk would be closer to MK speed.

That would work for me.

What about you, would you like it, hate it or not care?

What about back spring attacks, that's just what I call it.

You know how you do side step attacks in VF4, and in tekken4?

What if you could have special attacks for a back dash.

For example I saw this in the movie Fist of Legend, with Jet Li.

the part where Jet's friend was fighting a guy from another school. It's when Jet Li first enters the school.

OK, so what happened is that Jet Li's friend did a back hop, then linked that to a flying kick.

But he did it fast, like when you bounce a ball.

This could work like the Side step attack in VF4.

<or
<or
<or
<or
<
In some cases it could even be special moves.

<<>+1+2 = Rayden's superman

It could be a throw

<
The attack depends on the character.

The command depends on the attack your character throws.

It could be a move for just one character or a generic type of attack for every character but it looks different for everyone.

Either way, it would be a useful move.





Actually, now that I think about it, Raphael has a move similar to this in SC2.

Down, Back.....Then tap any attack button to attack.



(edit)

This move might also be used as a counter attack.

Like in Doa3, you tap Back+block to do a reversal.

You could do that with this too and have it work like a special counter animation. When the opponent attacks, you would tap
So it would look like this.


It could also be a regular reversal animation for just one fighter, where they would do the hop back and spring attack automatically.

all i have to say is vf sarks penif!

I just recently bought Tobal No.1 and have played Tobal 2 and although I don't think those games stand as the pinnacle of fighting quality the grapple system strikes my interest. Basically while in most games you do the throw command and you have a grapple and a subsequent throw/attack/whatever tacked on. In Tobal you do the grapple command, Square+R1, and all you do is grab the guy. No attack. What you do after that is completely up to you. Pressing Square+R1 again does a basic type throw or you can hit one of the attack buttons to do a headbut or knee to the stomach. There's also some character specific commands which will do a special throw. There are also ways during the grapple for the guy being held to attack. Plus, you can even move the guy around while holding him which could be very useful with MKs interactivity. It looks very plain in Tobal but obviously it'd be spiced up if MK had something like this. What does everyone think of that system?

I think that a standard throw system could stay in but an alternate command would do the grapple only. Like if two buttons together was the standard throw like it is in most games but two different buttons together would be the Tobal style grapple.

You could do the grapple only command and after the hold do the standard throw command so you get the same throw but it's break is altered, delayed, etc. Or get more throws with other commands. The subsequent risk would be that in this hold not only is it easier to escape but the guy you're holding can attack as well. This could work wonders for people who want to keep it simple because they'll have the basic throws available.

Hmmm, that's an interesting idea.

I think it would work better for wrestling characters because It would look kind of odd for a ninja to be just holding someone.

You know what I mean right?

characters aside from wrestlers would be doing regular speed throws, or reversals.

Holding a character would fit better with a wrestler. That Tobal grapple is similar to Goh's grapple in VF4E.


It could be edited so it fits better with any fighter, It could just be made faster.

You do the throw command, and tap whatever you want do do fast. If you just tap the grapple command, you might just push them or do a regular throw.

The grapple could be a step in throw.

I think that would look better for the faster characters.

How about that?

I can see how that would make sense. A more advanced grapple system for the big grappling arts. That would be good for distinguishing styles like Judo from ones like Jeet Kune Do unlike how it was in DA.

Something to add to the Stamina meter idea I posted earlier.
-------------------------------------------------
The stamina meter could be sort of like the dizzy meter in Street fighter. The more you are hit or the more you block, the lower it goes.

Level 1 = low = You are dazed, and can't break out of combos like in MKDA. More attacks will make you dizzy. Specific Med and strong and some counter attacks attacks can stun you like in DOA3.

Level 2 = med = You can block combos at break points while being hit. Some counter attacks can stun you like in DOA3.

Level 3 = Max = You can block, parry, or reverse combos while being hit at BREAK POINTS only. So it's not as easy as in DOA3. You can NOT be stunned when at level 3.
-------------------------------------------------


There could be a power up that works with this. Call it the "Adrenalin rush" for now.

This move can only be done 1 time per round, and what it does is that it instantly brings you up to level 3.

It could be used as an emergency move when your stamina meter is low.


Another power up similar to this would work like how you power up your super meter in the old King of Fighters games.

You hold 1+2+3+4 and your character will do some kool looking hand movements and grunt like

Haaaaaaaaaaih!

or they could just take a deep breath.

Baraka could do a crazy sounding roar.

It could be random animations for one character, so it's not always the same thing.

This is like they do in kung fu movies when they get all pumped before they fight.

This will slowly fill the stamina meter, the same as you fill the power meter in KOF94. It could take up to 3-4 seconds from empty to full.


There could also be power up animations linked to the end of a combo, or after a strong attack.

Like Jin Kazama in Tekken 4.

You tap 1,3,2,1,4, Down+1+2.

he does a combo, then a power up animation at the end.



Some of the power up moves linked to a combo could be automatic, like when Jan lee does a strong attack in DOA3, then does like a taunt afterward. That could happen with some Counter Attacks.

Raiden_is_god Wrote: ... Man a lots gone here flaming etc... A lot of good ideas and yes this game needs a more in depth fighter it lacked a lot in DA but lets give MK a chance in this game I bet we'll be suprised but if not they need a lot of these ideas.

i DON ́T (!!!) wanna "give a chance"!!! i ́m a mk fan from hour one, and i ́m so looking forward to MK:D. MK:DA was so disappointing to me, and i just don ́t wanna be that disapointed again. don ́t get me wrong, we already discussed about the "problems" MK:DA had. but i want MK:D to be the owning game MK and MK2 were. maybe it ́s time for an evolution in MK. the fighting has to be "deeper", take a look at DOA, it also uses a combo system, but u can nearly combine every attack to a combo string. this would be so much fun in MK, not those static combos (first press ... then ... then ... to make a combo).

i just wanna say: it has to be made "easy playable" with a "flow" in and between the moves.

the videos don ́t show the final version, i know, but the movement and moves look like "copy and paste" or just "cut together". i miss the "flowmotion"!!

and all this "inovativ and new" gamemodes (chess, puzzle...) won ́t make me happy if the fighting (the main reason to buy the game) suxx!!

again, don ́t get me wrong, but i fear the dev team will not get the max out of the possibilities they have.
one more thing: in Soul Calibur (1+2) u had to push 2x forward to run (also in tekken and any other fighting game i played so far)

I have to say I'm definitely liking this thread. I swear, someone should e-mail the whole damn thing to Ed Boon. The last two pages had some really good ideas, some misunderstandings, and some that didn't strike me so much.

I agree whole heartedly with Versatile and with what others have been advocating about variety. Move cancels, delayed attacks, and counter hits are things that are so subtle, you wouldn't really notice them until you went back and played MK:DA. But things like that have a large impact on the game. I'm not sure whether I'd go all the way to parrying, but I agree that there should be something that all of the characters have, like a counter perhaps (though not as simple and MASSIVELY DESTRUCTIVE as in DOA3).

I still agree with HDtran about usefulness of moves, and think that moves like counters (NOT counter throws though, this isn't tekken people), move cancels etc.

Tony, I definitely liked the idea of the Tobal style grapple. ( I gotta admit I'm envious though, I've never played Tobal 2 and it's always been heralded as one of the best fighting games ever...lucky bastard :) As Bleed said, I would have something like that with Jax and/or Kano.

Example: The wrestler shoots in on the opponents leg, after that, he can either pull the guys leg up and smash it at the knee (Mk style breaking), pull the opponent up off the ground onto his shoulder and then drive him shoulder first into the ground, etc etc. Or for Judo, like it was said, the guy comes in and grabs the shirt, or the neck and has a few options like owagoshi or asai siri komayashi (sorry for horrible spelling!) I would like to see moves that pertain more closely to styles. I mean, how cool would it have been to see Kai come back using capoiera???

Majin Tsung: There are going to be deathtraps in every level, and while some, like FLstyle don't like that, the traps will be pretty varied I think due to the variance of the arena. The Yin Yang Arena, the level that crumbles to nothing, the level where you're falling and fighting until someone hits the ground etc etc.

Versatile: I think you were talking about the ground throws, DEFINITELY liked that idea. I don't think people should have multi part throws, but I think that every character should have a throw from the front, the back, and you sold me on the ground. I especially liked the example for Kano.

I also think there's some misunderstanding about weapon throws. If I'm not mistaken, I think that the special weapons will be throwable, someone correct me if I'm wrong on that. Also, the character specific moves. There will be teleporting in MK:D, and I'd almost bet money that Sindel will be able to fly. We'll see on that. Oh, and combos won't be guaranteed anymore, Ed said that there will be a way to get out of any and all combos. There will be better and easier escapes.

Not too sure about triple side steps, mist steps, agressor returning, or arena structure throws. This game has never been throw based. If each character had three throws, I'd be more than happy. We don't need wall throws, counter throws, multipart throws, structure throws etc etc. If the throw heavy styles had the throw system described earlier by Tony, maybe 3 throws and a couple of strike moves, coupled with 3 standard throws, I'd be happier than someone who's really happy.

My thing is, and I've said it before. If it can be assimilated into MK's style, and not seem like a blatant ripoff of another game or even games (I don't by the "other games are doing it, why not MK?" argument), then I'm all for it. Some things, like variety of moves, moves usefullness of moves, and move results should definitely be taken into consideration. But don't change the whole system just because other games do certain things better. If Soul Calibur has a great parry system, fine, that's great for that game. That doesn't automatically mean that every other game should follow suit.

Bleed, there are plenty of ideas out there that haven't been thought of yet. For your sake and mine, let's hope that MK can do something in this game or in the future that really makes us say "why didn't I think of that?"

Honestly everyone, great ideas. I still don't believe that MK should be like other games. But as a fan of this series, I recognize that some changes must be made. Changes should be subtle and fit in with MK's style. The system isn't "broken" to me, it just hasn't been perfected. The fighting doesn't "suck," it just has room for improvement. As a fan, I'm willing to wait, because I do believe, unlike some, that evolution will occur in this series, as it always has.

Bleed Wrote: Something to add to the Stamina meter idea I posted earlier. ------------------------------------------------- The stamina meter could be sort of like the dizzy meter in Street fighter. The more you are hit or the more you block, the lower it goes. Level 1 = low = You are dazed, and can't break out of combos like in MKDA. More attacks will make you dizzy. Specific Med and strong and some counter attacks attacks can stun you like in DOA3. Level 2 = med = You can block combos at break points while being hit. Some counter attacks can stun you like in DOA3. Level 3 = Max = You can block, parry, or reverse combos while being hit at BREAK POINTS only. So it's not as easy as in DOA3. You can NOT be stunned when at level 3. ------------------------------------------------- There could be a power up that works with this. Call it the "Adrenalin rush" for now. This move can only be done 1 time per round, and what it does is that it instantly brings you up to level 3. It could be used as an emergency move when your stamina meter is low. Another power up similar to this would work like how you power up your super meter in the old King of Fighters games. You hold 1+2+3+4 and your character will do some kool looking hand movements and grunt like Haaaaaaaaaaih! or they could just take a deep breath. Baraka could do a crazy sounding roar. It could be random animations for one character, so it's not always the same thing. This is like they do in kung fu movies when they get all pumped before they fight. This will slowly fill the stamina meter, the same as you fill the power meter in KOF94. It could take up to 3-4 seconds from empty to full. There could also be power up animations linked to the end of a combo, or after a strong attack. Like Jin Kazama in Tekken 4. You tap 1,3,2,1,4, Down+1+2. he does a combo, then a power up animation at the end. Some of the power up moves linked to a combo could be automatic, like when Jan lee does a strong attack in DOA3, then does like a taunt afterward. That could happen with some Counter Attacks.

Oh man. That is the one thing I do NOT want in a fighting game. I hate the "adrenaline meters" in mostly all fighting games. I think they're rather pointless, and usually take away from the core gameplay. I also didn't like the "neijin" in Deadly Alliance. I would prefer not to have such functions in fighting games.

Fair enough

I still would like to see some experimentation with it though.

If it would break a game or add to it is not known yet IMO.

baraka407 Wrote: Bleed, there are plenty of ideas out there that haven't been thought of yet. For your sake and mine, let's hope that MK can do something in this game or in the future that really makes us say "why didn't I think of that?"

I'm all for that, and actually they already did that.

With the death traps, I had in mind breaking through walls and falling on spikes as a ring out, but I never though of having actual traps like the grinder.

I think that was a great idea.

Why didn't I thin of that?


Actually, some of the MK team members went to my Art school for a presentation, and I got to talk with Tony Goskie.

While talking, I mentioned to him that it would be kool if you could smash your opponent through a wall, like with Rayden's super man move.

What do you know, it happened. They probably had already though of that though. But who knows?

Bleed Wrote: What do you guys think about the auto run in SC2 and in Tao feng? Where you hold forward and instead of walking, you run. Personally I hardly ever walk in tekken or VF. I'm always doing quick steps, or just running. Maybe it's just because you walk so slow in those games. I like the walking speed in MKDA much better than in VF or Tekken. But what if MK had an auto run?

I would like to be able to run, but I would like to hold down a run button like in the old MK games. For some reason I find it's quicker that way instead of wating for it to kick in from you holding the forward button.

But that's definitely a good idea.

Do you have Tao Feng?

If so, in that game the run starts right away like in MK3.

You just hold forward when far from your opponent.

I think it feels very natural fast and easy, I like how they did it.


A run button would work perfectly, but it's not needed to get the job done. Either way is fine though.

baraka407 Wrote: Tony, I definitely liked the idea of the Tobal style grapple. ( I gotta admit I'm envious though, I've never played Tobal 2 and it's always been heralded as one of the best fighting games ever...lucky bastard :)

Don't be. At least not that much. I mean, it's fun and all for a while but the grapple system I mentioned is the most unique thing it has to offer. The quest mode also blows. It's painfully repetitive and unfairly hard. It's one of those games that I understand why people like it but not why people praise it. Just look at other Dream Factory games for comparison. Ehrgeiz (piece of trash, that it is), The Bouncer (Eh...ok I guess), and Kakuto Chojin (boring and plain). Tobal No.1 and Tobal 2 are easily the best of their work but obviously that isn't saying much. Overall, the Tobal games I'll rate as above average for their time but they don't stand the test of time. Although a Tobal 3 could definately be nice. Though I don't know if Dream Factory or Square retained the rights after the split.

Honestly, I think it would be sweet if Square-Enix made a game with all their signature characters in it. Like an Ehrgeiz 2 that doesn't suck. Sadly enough I've actually given this some deep thought as to how it'd work. Since obviously Square characters are RPG based they all have weapons so I thought a watered down MK system could work. Unarmed and armed.

Double post.