I liked Deadly Alliance more than MK4, I think Deception has a possibility of becoming my favorite MK game.

I realised that Tobias didnt account for much once Tao Feng came out which was worse than Deadly Alliance.

"MKDA was plain out horrible."
I disagree.
"MKs 1-Gold were awesome!"
Again I disagree.
MK4 was just the worst IMO.MK:DA was not the best this is true,but saying MK4 was better than MK:DA...I would highly disagree.Also,since you have not played the game yet,quite your bitching till you actually play it.If it bothers you that much and you think it sucks already.DON'T BUY IT!!!

IMO No. I liked MK: DA. It is my fav MK game to date. Deception is looking promising. The 3 fighting styles was a good move.Tobias was an inportant member of the MK team. To me MK is till moving toward in a great way.Also Ed Boon isn't own his own Vogel has stepped up in Tobias's place as the person that has done the story. Since MK4 this Trilogy of events has been building. To me Vogel has done a great job with progressing the storyline adding plots twists.In general for me things have gotten far better with each progressing MK game including MK: DA to Deception.

The John Tobias years were the pallet swap years. Now, we're finally getting original looks for all the characters.

Has MK gotten worse?


Yup.
Edit: I do not think it's directly related to John leaving. Even though he put A LOT into MK. I really don't know what it is, honestly. I have an my own theory as to why, but "MK fans" don't want to hear it, lol. The whole pallet swap thing was due to technology and time. It could have also been a design decision; creating a similar reference for players to relate to. Whatever, though.

guess you never played tao feng.. belive me... boon is better off.. and i think the mk is getting better with out him..

See, this brings up "what if?" questions. What if Tobias stayed? Would MKDA be what it was? Would MKD be what is appears it's going to be? This is an interesting question cause you could say that MKDA and MKD would probably still be as they are, but in thinking about it carefully, you can't really be sure.

You have to think about the characters that have come along since he left and the story lines. Huh! I think that MK hasn't gotten worse, whereas it's gone in a direction that did not involve Tobias. And I think that helped MKDA and MKD revitalize the series. But feasibly, the same could have happened if Tobias had stuck around.


GD

Worst mk games are mk4,mk gold,mk special forces and sub zero mythologies.MKDA where better then those games but mkda was not better then mk-mkt.

Nah, Mortal Kombat is getting better. Although if John Tobias had stayed, we wouldn't have had the MKDA/MKD storyline or characters like Kenshi, Li Mei, Bo Rai Cho, Ashrah, Hotaru, etc.

Just think if MK went the way Tao Fang went. The series would be dead, gone, and buried. That would leave us with only Dead or Alive. Not that DOA is bad by any means, but DOA doesn't have the extras that MK has.

theshape Wrote: Just think if MK went the way Tao Fang went. The series would be dead, gone, and buried. That would leave us with only Dead or Alive. Not that DOA is bad by any means, but DOA doesn't have the extras that MK has.

AH, but remember, he was someone trying NOT to make a game that was like MK. Not an easy thing to do successfully with that much added pressure on yourself.


GD

I think MK is much better now.

Same here. MK:DA was the jump MK NEEDED. It may not have been the best MK game, but it was by far the best move the company made to stay competitive. The only downside to John leaving is that Noob Saibot is no more. You can't have Saibot in the name, hence the Noob-Smoke character. Fatality.

To the first post who was complaining about Noob Smoke do you know why he is named that now ? because tobias left and that is where Saibot came from so now that he is gone they can't have Saibot in noobs name.And i really disagree on Deadly alliance it was a wicked game and so far what i have seen Deception is going to bring back Mk's legendary status like it deserves.

Well, for one, I liked Deadly Alliance. Flawed, but it was still good.

Two, Tobias was not involved with MK4 or Gold. He was focusing Mythologies and Special Forces at the time.

Which brings me to three, Mythologies was decent at best. Special Forces blew goat. And his solo non-MK project Tao Feng was pretty crappy IMO.


So essentally, no I don't think MK was gotten better or worse without Tobias.

MK4 sucked bitch

John Tobias was involved with MK4's development.

GameSpy: Is Tao Feng the first game you've worked on since the last MK game you worked on?

John Tobias: That's right. The last games I worked on were MK Mythologies: Sub Zero and MK4. So you're talking 1998 or 1999. It was a long time ago. The majority of my time since has been spent with the formation of Studio Gigante. After leaving Midway it was all about starting up Studio Gigante and then getting things rolling [on Tao Feng.]

http://www.gamespy.com/xbox/tao-feng-fist-of-the-lotus/6534p1.html?fromint=1

My point about the pallet swaps were that John Tobias at the time was the head character designer. That means most of the pallet swaps of the MKII (Smoke, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Jade, Mileena, Kitana, Noob) and MK3 (Scorpion, Classic Sub-Zero, Jade, Mileena, Kitana, Noob, Smoke, Human Smoke, Reptile, Cyrax, Ermac, Sektor and Rain) era were mostly his ideas, or lack of them. Sure, they're finally starting to become new and fully realized characters, but at the time they were just extras thrown in to save time.

kombatkommando Wrote: John Tobias was involved with MK4's development. GameSpy: Is Tao Feng the first game you've worked on since the last MK game you worked on? John Tobias: That's right. The last games I worked on were MK Mythologies: Sub Zero and MK4. So you're talking 1998 or 1999. It was a long time ago. The majority of my time since has been spent with the formation of Studio Gigante. After leaving Midway it was all about starting up Studio Gigante and then getting things rolling [on Tao Feng.] http://www.gamespy.com/xbox/tao-feng-fist-of-the-lotus/6534p1.html?fromint=1

Then his involvement was minimal because he isn't listed in MK4's credits except for co-creating Mortal Kombat.

Don't blame Tobias for the shittiness that was Special Forces, since the game was heavily altered after he left, if not 100% changed. Personally, I feel that the system changes to MK would have happened with or without him, I don't know that he had control over the actually gameplay (which he may have, but I'm under the impression he was solely design and story). So, I think DA and D would be generally the same, except the characters would be better. I really can't stand the new characters from DA and most from D, with only a handful of exceptions. And the look of alot of classic characters from DA was not so great. Also, blaming him for pallette-swaps may not necasarilly be correct either. I think those were really just done to offer a wider range of characters when the memory wouldn't exactly allow wholly new designs. It spawned shit characters, but it was there way of offering more with what they had.

"Has MK gotten worse since Ed Boon went on his own without John Tobias?"

Interesting question.

In short, I think that if anyone has held MK back, it has been Midway. I'm sure that Boon & co. have always wanted as much development time as possible for their MK games, but many dev teams just don't get the luxury of saying, "It will be released when it's done", like a Blizzard Entertainment for example. Instead, they are constantly plagued by deadline after deadline.

MK:DA, while being very decent or even good, was not a fully fleshed out and finished game, much less polished to the highest degree of quality which is seen from time to time in the gaming industry. Anyone who says otherwise is really just being irrational in my opinion.

There is fanboism, and then there is fanatical blind fanboism. The former is fine, and is one of the reasons why fairly normal people come to view and maybe post on various fan site message boards on the web. The latter however, while it happens within just about every large franchise fan community, is always going to be viewed in a pathetic light.

That said, MK:D looks great, and as a few of us have said many times before, it will most likely end up being what MK:DA should have been if Boon & co. were given the time and/or resources to make it happen.

trynax Wrote: Ever since John Tobias has left the MK project to go his own way, has the MK games gotten worse besides better? MKDA was plain out horrible. We don't know too much about MKD, except for some of the Fatalities are making no sence, or plain out dumb, or retarded. MKs 1-Gold were awesome! Then came MKDA. It seems that ever since Ed Boon went on his own, things went downhill. I mean come on! Noob-Smoke!?! The story has went down the hill bad in my opinion. What are your guys opinions.

MKDA, plain out horrible? Are you crazy? it's one of the best MK games...
MK1-3 were great, but MK4 and Gold were so crappy that they had simply managed to make me lose interest in MK... The only true reproach which we can make for MKDA consists in its combo system, too stiff and directive... Is it sufficient to say that it's horrible? I doubt it seriously...

i actually like the way m.k. is headed right now.....the story is great...and the charactar designs are awesome.....and that's pretty much all the control tobias had....so that's all i can say about it

No I deffintly think Mortal Kombat has gotten better after Tobias split, but not because of john. YOu also have to remember Midway never really took MK that seriously. MK was suspoes to be a quick project and MKII was a big burden for john and Ed to get in finished because of those $$ signs, although that is arguable one of the best MK's to date. I think if anything why MK series went down is like another poster said, MIdway did not want to give the MK enough resources and time to fully create a good video game.. look at the cluster fuck MK4 was... a video tour, 3 revisions, a great idea for a boss that turned into utter shit. I think if given the resources and the freedom the MKD team has Tobias might have stayed at Midway, and you woulnd't have seen the downer games.. plus the guys really needed to get away from doing MK for a little while anyway.