I think you can really see the change when John left. I feel like it has not really gotton worse but MK really does feel much different then it did a few years ago.

Finally an original thread which has base to it. On to the thread...

I think that it's gotten better. I saw someone mention the pallet swapping for instance, and people have been mentioning the Tao Feng (sp?) game as well. Both of those, I agree with totally. Everyone is complaining about Noob Smoke, but think of MKT. Smoke was just a rip of Scorpion. Hopefully, this time he'll be his own character (so to speak considering he's paired with Noob). Nonetheless, I think it would be interesting if Tobias came back, but as for being without him, I think Boon is doing a good job.

-Fuj

Quan Chi suit was ridiculous, we would have said a monster off-loaded of a sentai... Do You know Bioman? Quan Chi in MK4 looks like one of the main bad guy from this kind of series... :/

Leno_mk Wrote: John Tobias did wonderful designs for costumes and characters for MK3/UMK3. The best-looking costumes for the whole series are still there IMO. Ever since MK3 all costumes have been "better remakes" to say the least. His sketches were awesome, the ones for MKDA can't compare to his, those look like done by a child in comparison lol. Quan Chi's original costume and whole design.. WOW! it was awesome. I feel like that's the big loss with Tobias departure.

As far as the art department I have to agree john had some pretty amazing sketches and character Idea, although I think toward the end he and boon felt to over worked and rushed and that took nearly all the creative talent out of both of them in my oppion. It's too hard to create something like that when you have a deadline knife down your back. Plus the MK team has grown in gigantic preportions since the first MK. ALthough I think JOhn VOgel has done a great john as far as storyline goes.

I don't really know enough to say what he added or didn't add to the game. Neither does anyone here. The only evidence (other than knowledge of concept art) was that it wasn't working with him & Boon. These kinds of creative people "What ifs?", such as what if the Beatles stayed together are moot. They were never meant to stay together.

Whatever the reason, Tobias ended up working on another game and that game failed to gather either an audience or critical praise.

MKDA built up MK's audience from the plummet it felt following MK4. MKD appears to be getting more critical acclaim than DA which was largely approved by most critics.

All we can do is speculate, so I don't find this thread particularly helpful to us, to Boon & Co. or to Tobias.

MK: DA was one of the best Mortal Kombat games I played in a long time( MK 2 was the best one)

MK3 - 4 were OK but not great!!!

Mortal Kombat Deception seems like It going to be the king of all Mortal Kombats and fighting games!!!


So No it not getting worse it getting way , way BETTER!!!!

I keep getting fed up with people saying "THEY CAN'T USE SAIBOT ANYMORE BECAUSE OF TOBIAS!!!" and stuff. MKTE, the GBA exclusive MKDA-based game, had Noob Saibot. The full name, Noob Saibot, was used for a game that followed MKDA, which doesn't mean that Noob Smoke's creation is solely based on Tobias leaving.

Anyways, on topic, even though the 3 styles in MKDA seemed to be somewhat a gimmick, I think it's getting much better. Killing Liu Kang was a great idea, and if Tobias was still with them, I really doubt he'd let that one go. He'd probably have Liu Kang defeat the DA in the intro movie and have Shao Kahn ressurected to be an enemy again. Lol.

My answer to your question is no, it has actually gotten better. Boon is a god. At least in my book.

John Tobais is so overrated. His writing was terrible. He also created all the characters from MK3 and MK4, which were mostly shitty characters. The story has improved so much since Vogel took over, and while the new character designs aren't as good as MK1 and Mk2's, the new characters are certainly better than the MK3 and MK4 characters.

Heh, and if that doesn't seal the deal, I present you with 3 simple words:

Tobias created Stryker.

Bezou Wrote: Heh, and if that doesn't seal the deal, I present you with 3 simple words: Tobias created Stryker.

exactly.

Another thing. While Tobais did create one of the greatest mythologies of video games, his writing was full of plot holes, contradictions etc. Vogel has done a great job taking Tobais's original vision and improving on it, 10 fold.

Most likely he will be forgotten very fast when Deception comes out.

Well, he'll never be forgotten. Without him there would be no Mortal Kombat.

BigMamaNasty Wrote: I don't really know enough to say what he added or didn't add to the game. Neither does anyone here. The only evidence (other than knowledge of concept art) was that it wasn't working with him & Boon. These kinds of creative people "What ifs?", such as what if the Beatles stayed together are moot. They were never meant to stay together. Whatever the reason, Tobias ended up working on another game and that game failed to gather either an audience or critical praise. MKDA built up MK's audience from the plummet it felt following MK4. MKD appears to be getting more critical acclaim than DA which was largely approved by most critics. All we can do is speculate, so I don't find this thread particularly helpful to us, to Boon & Co. or to Tobias.

Well I disagree with part about John and Boon just not working together anymore. I think it was more a matter of both of them being being burned out as a whole on the series, plus It seemed john really wanted to get out of midway. And it's not really a pointless thread at heart, it's a pretty simple question, did the series get better or worse after john left... Id still have to say it has.

i like evey mortal kombat exept the mortal kombat
special forces edition it was a pain in the ass
looked ugly. bad platform game.

i liked mortal kombat 4
i liked deadly alliance
and i'm going to decepion.

de classics are good to

1 superior
2 uber superior
3 superior

While Tobias may have created Stryker and some of MK's other morts I'm hesitant to say Vogel is superior.
Vogel is the guy who's trying to pretend Johnny Cage never died because he thought it was stupid while at the same time he's killing and resurrecting Kitana in a single game.

Everyone complains about MK4...and what....Boon wasn't involved with that aswell?

Cmon people, Tobias gave us MK2. NOTHING has topped that yet, not even MKDA. The story lines with Tobias involved, in my opinion, were better but saying that Boon and Vogel have done pretty well since John left. I think having John there would only better the quality of the story lines involving the characters.

Tobias created the MK universe, Boon made it possible. remember that. NOOB SIABOT WILL LIVE FOREVER. Or he should anyway.

if Tobias work on MKDA, Sonya would still have her pony tail and her ugly green sports bra and pants.

Is they why they made Noob Smoke so they could take tobias out of it?

its alot better i think , ive never been so excited about a bloody game lol mad aint it lol it just looks so perfect this game "to me"

djwoodford Wrote: Is they why they made Noob Smoke so they could take tobias out of it?

It might be for personal reasons or something, but no that's probbly not the actual reason. When they used "Noob Saibot" it was most likley copyrighted by Midway, and also Saibot is not Tobias, so legally I don't think it's a reason why, although it might have been a personal choice by Ed Boon.

This is YOUR opinion man....... I think the whole team always was awesome, and that Mortal Kombat is gonna be BY FAR the best MK yet !

The Noob-Smoke thing has nothing to do with Tobias. Midway owns the character, and has never had to pay any likeness rights to either Boon or Tobias for it. Even if by some chance Tobias did try to sue over it, it would not hold up. Just because his name is spelled backwards means nothing. The character has no likeness look wise to either Boon or Tobias, so his case would hold no ground. Midway owns the copyright to the name Noob Saibot, not Tobias.

HAs MK gotten better since he left? That's a touchy question. In some ways it has, it some ways it hasn't. I think the characters now have more thought put in to their design, and Vogel has done well trying to fill in some plot holes left by Tobias. On the other hand, I would say no just because of the fact that there is no way of telling what Tobias and Boon could come up with working together on next gen consoles. For all we know the characters could be even more detailed.

It's not really a question that can be answered with 100% accuracy.

It's sad to see how ignorant on the subject you guys are. What most of you are saying are nothing more than blind guesses, not facts. You don't know shit about how the things worked.


M4C asked Ed at the gamers day convention thing if "Noob-Smoke" is an attempt to clean out Tobias from MK and Ed just laughed and said he actually had lunch with John to other day.

The color swaps were due to the limitations of the hardware. Scorpion and Sub-Zero were pallette swaps because of the lack of memory. Ermac, Rain... Those guys were likely meant to be nobodies. UMK3 is just a ROM upgrade. If their hardware could support some more different-looking guys.. I'm damn sure they would've made it happen.

Guys, don't fucking bother opening your mouths on the subject if the only proof you have is your stupid and blatantly bullshit assumptions.
I'll bet none of you know exactly why certain things happen the way they do in the MK universe. Just shut up and quit assuming. Your assumptions are way off. Quit fucking saying "This is like this because of xxxxxxx or John Tobias." I heavily doubt any of you were right there throughout the entire dev process of any of the MK's so just shut up and quit trying to hold some ONE person responsible for something that happends.

Also, John Vogel is NOT the ONLY damn person working on the story. It's become clear some of you can't read or never saw the credits.

A tournament sounds like the best idea for a fighting game. Having some guy who is mighty powerful is more for an adventure/platform game.

I would really like to hear some of your guys' logic for thinking that any ONE person decided/created/dictated an ENTIRE videogame down to the last detail. John Tobias is an incredible storyteller and could handle the MK storyline better than anyone. A lot of you guys obviously don't know anything and assume that xxx did this or xxx did that or xxx is like this because of xxx when none of you even work at Midway or even met anyone from Midway. Your guys'ignorance deeply disgusts me.



And one last thing : JOHN TOBIAS ISN'T ON MK:D AND THERE ARE STILL COLOR SWAPS!!