I would be suprised if the MK roster contained anyone introduced after MK II.

10 - 11 Characters is really a very small number....

Lets see.

Scorpion - Confirmed
Sub Zero - Confirmed
Liu Kang/Kung Lao - I believe we'll only see one of these. While I personally prefer Kung Lao , I can see Midway going for Liu Kang.
Sonya - The original MK chick. Surely she'll make the cut?
Raiden - Should also be a given.
Cage - He's always been the "comic relief". I'm not expecting him to make an appearance.
Kano - He's my favourite character , and I can see scope for him being a human villain to rival (or accompany Lex Luthor) , but I know there is next to no chance of him being in MKvsDCU.
Goro/Kintaro - Like Liu and Kung , both are worthy of an appearance. I suspect Goro probably has the edge.
Shang Tsung - He'll be there for sure.
Reptile - In such a condensed roster , I think two ninja's are more than enough. Sorry Reptile , not this time.
Jax - Could very well make it in. I can see scope for a Special Forces angle to the story line...I'll put him down as a maybe.
Baraka - Should make it in on uniqueness alone.
Kitana/Mileena - Kitana should be a definite. Most fans would argue that you can't have one without the other but 3 females in a roster of 10 - 11 might be a little high. Kitana yes , Mileena maybe.
Shao Khan - THE ultimate MK villain. He'll be in , but will bosses be playable?

So , my final roster looks like this.....

Scorpion
Sub Zero
Liu Kang
Sonya
Raiden
Baraka
Kitana
Shang Tsung
Goro
Shao Khan

And a few of "maybe's" , incase the bosses are not included in the roster

Cage
Jax
Mileena
Kano

That's awesome! Can't wait to hear from you!! lol


Well that's what I meant about getting them back on the front of the line. You're talking about "spotlighted" characters, which is what I meant by that. Just because Kano was spotlighted thanks to his cover, it doesn't make him iconic.

Tanya and Sindel have also been on covers and they aren't icons. The reason why is because they aren't constantly promoted, say like Scorp and Sub. If they were, they sure as hell would be icons whether people liked them or not.

With Kano it's the same thing. One cover shot doesn't make him an icon, imo. He might have been an icon during MK1 but that was only his 15 minutes of fame, like Sindel with MK3. It's over now because Midway hasn't kept him alive in all these past years. He's been a mere background/secondary character since MK4.

Johnny I do believe is an icon though, to this day still. Mileena being more iconic than him due to her recent outbursts of attention and success is another debate though.


So you're saying that because Kano was a part of old MK merchandise and promotional things of the past that he's an MK icon today?

Okay, I can see why you would think that, and you are probably right, but I disagree. There is more than a 10 year gap between now and the time he was a promoted MK figure. I really believe you are ignoring that 10 year period and thinking that just because he was a star in the old days that people will remember him like it was yesterday. 10 years is far from yesterday and to make it worse, he wasn't even one of the top stars. It was Scorp, Sub, and Raiden. Even Sonya and Johnny received more attention tham him, so with that, plus over 10 years of lack of attention, I really think Kano is no longer an icon.


?????

I was here at MKO when their bios got released. I remember quite well which bios got more attention than others. But again, I don't think that matters because stories don't make characters iconic.


Really? I guess it's been a while since I've played that boring half-assed mode. Sorry about that.


This seems to pretty much sum up your entire argument. You need to consider that the "classic days" are over a decade years old. Haven't things changed since then? What might have been famous then isn't necessarily what's famous now. Kano I believe is one of those things.


So because Sindel screams, because Drahmin throws flies, because Nitara spits blood, because Hotaru blasts lave, they are all recognizable in that iconic sense?

I was using Scorpion as an example because he's constantly promoted so what he does in the games (spear move) matters to his iconicity. People like that move and the so that makers made him a star because of it. If a character has a fantastic set of moves and costumes, stories, etc. it will not matter unless they are constantly promoted. They will not be icons otherwise. And Kano has not been constantly promoted for a really long time. Even when he was, he wasn't a top character.


Maybe not Johnny. If I said before that she was more iconic than him I take it back because I'm not sure, but with Kano, I'm quite sure.


Maybe true. However, a professer and champion could be stories applied to countless other characters. I believe image is what makes characters iconic, and if story obligates people to put their faces out there, then story is what helped make them icons but it is ultimately because of their visibility, not the stories themselves, imo. I could be wrong.


This is actually a very good point that Xia makes here now that I think about it. If it's true, then Mileena most likely has a better chance at a playable spot than Kano (or even Johnny maybe) because we, the fans, have been keeping up with MK games and we know who the hot characters of today are.

I also wonder why some people don't think Shao Kahn is iconic.

I think he's easily more iconic than Jax. As for Quan Chi, I don't even think he's an icon.

Xia:

Only shows how little you know about Wonder Woman.

No, and I'm considering more then her cool involvement with the Greek Gods that give depth to her story, I'm also thinking her awesome “feminist impact” as well.

Sure I know, not as much as a major fan of DC would, that I do admit, but quite enough to consider her a waste when compared to other awesome badass characters like The Joker, Poison Ivy, etc. for this game. Probably I would need to study her more deeply as I do with the MK characters to really really like her, but I do like her! But she is just not as interesting as the others.

For tastes and colors there's always a different opinion, and just imagining Poison’s Ivy look and doing some amazing plant attacks is a lot more exciting then Wonderwoman and her lasso of truth/powers.

I think for a lot of people (I'm assuming), it's not so much Shao Kahn is less iconic, it's more a question of whether or not he should be playable.

Not really.

MK-4-life nailed the point without really wanting to. I too consider Kahn more iconic then Jax, Kano, Quan Chi, etc. But he’s never been as iconic as the others among outside MK fans because he just isnt as known, even though he has been a primary villain since MK2!

While not necessarily playable, it would be cool to see Kahn in some form in this game. I'm actually guessing they might include him instead of Tsung, though I like the evil sorcerer a lot more.

To QS(TB):

Well that's what I meant about getting them back on the front of the line. You're talking about "spotlighted" characters, which is what I meant by that. Just because Kano was spotlighted thanks to his cover, it doesn't make him iconic.

You are correct.

But hey, just because being in that spotlight doesn’t make him iconic, it *doesn’t* mean he isn’t iconic.

Tanya and Sindel have also been on covers and they aren't icons. The reason why is because they aren't constantly promoted, say like Scorp and Sub. If they were, they sure as hell would be icons whether people liked them or not.

Exactly. I agree.

With Kano it's the same thing. One cover shot doesn't make him an icon, imo.

Its not the same thing, simply because his promotion, appearance and presence was a thousand times more “shocking” then those two females together. Why? Thank MK1 (I know you keep saying that was ages ago but I promise I will get to that part soon so let me explain ).

You are correct that a cover shot doesn’t make any character an instant icon (even if it helps), but in Kano’s case, its simply not the same because being in the initial days were MK was such a bomb of controversy, was enough to use him and keep him as an icon, without really needing to promote him as much as they did with Rayden, Sub, Sonya, Cage, and Scorpion.

If Tanya had been in Kano’s place, be sure that people would be remembering the “black female who kills you by taking your heart out” decently enough. Obviously there are many factors that help as well, not simply those I implied.

He might have been an icon during MK1 but that was only his 15 minutes of fame, like Sindel with MK3. It's over now because Midway hasn't kept him alive in all these past years. He's been a mere background/secondary character since MK4.

Midway hasn’t “kept him alive” in that sense because they don’t need too. He is not as important to them as Scorpion (obviously), but he is also recognizable without their promotion, so its not that “its over”, its more like “its there, its kept”. A sudden and simple picture of Kano with his metal face or of him taking a heart out would be enough for many to instantly think MK.

So you're saying that because Kano was a part of old MK merchandise and promotional things of the past that he's an MK icon today?

Yes.

And its pretty simple: the classics.

That’s what people remember, that’s what people know, that’s what most people “love”. Anyone who has decided to “jump in” with the new MK’s, would be more familiar with the classic faces then the new ones, and new “iconic promotions” don’t make them instantly “iconic” to the “new fan base” or “new casual players” because the incredible shock MK caused back then has never been the same today (as for now of course).

Remember that no matter how new a MK game is today, its always “compared” and obviously (but very heavily) associated with the classics. That’s why.

Okay, I can see why you would think that, and you are probably right, but I disagree. There is more than a 10 year gap between now and the time he was a promoted MK figure. I really believe you are ignoring that 10 year period and thinking that just because he was a star in the old days that people will remember him like it was yesterday.

See that’s the case. I'm not ignoring the gap, not at all, I'm just saying that despite that gap, and despite the less-then-Scorpion promotion Kano has received, he remains well known, more then others who are recent and have also been very popular among fans.....

10 years is far from yesterday and to make it worse, he wasn't even one of the top stars. It was Scorp, Sub, and Raiden. Even Sonya and Johnny received more attention tham him, so with that, plus over 10 years of lack of attention, I really think Kano is no longer an icon.

.....but I do agree with you.

I, for instance, don’t see him as the great icon I see Shao Kahn and Mileena. But, that doesn’t mean he isn’t iconic.

Oh, btw, Kano was one of the top stars back then as well, he had loads of attention in the toys, comics and even posters department (same story with MK3), but you are correct, it was never as strong as the others.

?????

I was here at MKO when their bios got released. I remember quite well which bios got more attention than others. But again, I don't think that matters because stories don't make characters iconic.

Probably, but I have to insist, from a very objective view, Cage took the award.

Really? I guess it's been a while since I've played that boring half-assed mode. Sorry about that.

LOL. Come on! Konquest was probably the BEST thing of that game.

This seems to pretty much sum up your entire argument. You need to consider that the "classic days" are over a decade years old. Haven't things changed since then? What might have been famous then isn't necessarily what's famous now. Kano I believe is one of those things.

You are correct that Kano is one of those “famous then not today” things, but you need to consider that those classic days are not “over” in the entire sense of the word. They are part of the past, but they are strong parts of MK’s present and will be part of the “end”, whenever that gets here.

So because Sindel screams, because Drahmin throws flies, because Nitara spits blood, because Hotaru blasts lave, they are all recognizable in that iconic sense?

Hmmm, I probably expressed myself incorrectly, sorry. But there are obviously plenty of factors that play a role in that iconic sense.

I was using Scorpion as an example because he's constantly promoted so what he does in the games (spear move) matters to his iconicity. People like that move and the so that makers made him a star because of it. If a character has a fantastic set of moves and costumes, stories, etc. it will not matter unless they are constantly promoted. They will not be icons otherwise. And Kano has not been constantly promoted for a really long time. Even when he was, he wasn't a top character.

You know, I think you have a very solid point about Kano and I agree, you could be entirely correct, but from an objective perspective (not saying you aren’t being objective) I just don’t agree with some of the things you say. For instance, back in the days, Kano was an instant icon because of his face (as simple or lame as it sounds, remember the laser and killer stuff rumors?) and because of his fatality, and he *did* receive a very good amount of promotion.

The heart rip remains an icon of MK as much as the spear, but *obviously* not as iconic.

Maybe not Johnny. If I said before that she was more iconic than him I take it back because I'm not sure, but with Kano, I'm quite sure.

Exactly.

And I say the same for Mileena, who is a super fave of mine, she is iconic and maybe (assuming you are 100% correct that the public has really forgotten, which I still doubt because of what is heard and seen) more then Kano.

Maybe true. However, a professer and champion could be stories applied to countless other characters. I believe image is what makes characters iconic, and if story obligates people to put their faces out there, then story is what helped make them icons but it is ultimately because of their visibility, not the stories themselves, imo. I could be wrong.

I think it’s a little bit of both.

Scorpion, for example, is the opposite in this sense, concerning Liu Kang.

I do think story plays a role, but it doesn’t necessarily need to tie to the visibility. Like cool special moves play a role, but those obviously don’t need to tie to the story.

I hope that made sense.

This is actually a very good point that Xia makes here now that I think about it. If it's true, then Mileena most likely has a better chance at a playable spot than Kano (or even Johnny maybe) because we, the fans, have been keeping up with MK games and we know who the hot characters of today are.

EXACTLY!!!

That of “we, the fans, have been keeping up with MK games and we know who the hot characters of today are.” pretty much sums up this entire little debate. That’s my point and the point I was trying to explain to you that you disagree.

You said it yourself, exactly what I have been trying to say since post 1.

I still say Mileena isn’t as recognizable or iconic to outsiders then Kano, because no matter how aged the classic days are, those are the ones people still remember, despite the new games, but that shouldn’t mean Mileena shouldn’t be in his place.

And I must also say I agree with your’s and Xia’s view. It should be mostly iconic characters to the fans and MK series, but obviously, also to the public, but not as much as the first two.

Okay, fair enough. And personally, I would rather play as Wonder Woman.
But what I'm not getting is how is it Wonder Woman's fault if Poison Ivy or the Joker don't get in? You're saying that it'll be a shame for characters like them to be left out because a spot was "wasted" on Wonder Woman. I'm not following that logic.

We can debate the iconic value of many characters and who deserves to be in or not....but there are some characters who are locks. In Mortal Kombat, Scorpion & Sub-Zero are locks. No one's debating their being icons and their value to the series.

Although he hasn't been confirmed, I think there's little doubt about Raiden's iconic value or his value to the series. Like I said in my first post, I think he's pretty much the unofficial Number Three of MK after Scorpion & Sub-Zero. Although I may question Sonya's iconic value....I won't deny she has a place in this game and is worthy of representation. Same with Kitana and probably Shang Tsung. Obviously, there is a chance they might not get in....but I think it's safe to say they're practical locks.

Now characters beyond that are more debatable. Hence, our discussion over whether characters like Johnny Cage and Kano are more deserving of being this game than characters like Mileena, Reptile, and Quan Chi. Unlike Raiden, Sonya, and Kitana....they are not practical locks. They could get in....they might not.

Meanwhile, on the DC side...they too have characters that are locks. They already have Superman and Batman. Then there's Wonder Woman. You know how I said Raiden is the "unofficial" Number Three in MK? Well, Wonder Woman IS the official Number Three in DC. Green Lantern and the Flash are also practial locks. Beyond that is debatable.

So if Poison Ivy gets in or does not get....how does it have anything to do with Wonder Woman? Aside from being an icon, Wonder Woman is one of DC's top heroes, pretty much the main female character, and...from a storyline perspective...she can fit into Mortal Kombat well since she has a mythological/magic background, is a martial artist, can & has killed, & fights sorcerers, gods, & monsters.

I would like the Joker to get in and I wouldn't really mind if Poison Ivy got in....but whether they get in or not has nothing to do with Wonder Woman.


And I want to throw in one final point in regard to "icons" and who the "general public" is more likely to recognize or know....and this is a true story:

Back when they were thinking of making the Batman movie in 1989...early on, several producers seriously considered making it just like the old campy 60's Batman TV show with Bill Murray....yes, Bill Murray....as Batman. Do you know why they considered this ludicrous idea?

Because at the time, it was believed the "general public" would remember Batman more from the old TV show.

Luckily, cooler heads prevailed, and they realized that even if that was how the public saw Batman, no one would want to see that and the movie should show the public that is not how Batman really is. And thus, we got the dark, macabre Tim Burton Batman movie.

Just something to keep in mind when worrying about what the "general public" thinks.

Here's my list of iconic characters that i think should make it:

sub
scorpion
sonya
kitana
mileena
lui kang
reptile
shang tsung
raiden
jax

maybe
cage
kahn
goro

Hi Queve!

Okay... So basically you're saying that Kano is more iconic than Mileena because of his stardom during the classic days, and his "classic day promotion" means more than Mileena's "today's excess of promotion" because the classic days had a shocking, controversial impact and are therefore more remembered, right?

That makes sense. And here is where I'll go with what you said in your previous post about agreeing to disagree.

The difference between your argument and mine is that you believe the classic days are still fresh in memory to most people, including casual gamers or the general public, whereas I believe 1) that people have quite forgotten most of the classic days and 2) new MK material and video game material has surfaced so people are more concerned and into what's up today and not yesteryear.

The controversial impact of MK has even been surpassed by many others games also, I think. Grand Theft Auto is enough to make MK's classic-day controversy appear like nothing in comparison. That's one reason I don't think the classic days are still vibrantly alive as you make it sound. The biggest role I think that the classic days play is giving MK fans that nostalgic feeling.

I don't think casual gamers or the general public feel that "love for the classics days of MK" that you're talking about the same way or even care about what was a hit over a decade ago. I kinda think you're equating MK-fans' feelings about the classics with the feelings of casual gamers and the GP. So I think Kano's ex-stardom is more of a MK fan memory than a GP memory. The GP is most likely familiar with what's up today, the icons of today, imo.

It's like Shrek has surpassed Bugs Bunny who was a massive star back in the days. If there were a game featuring animated icons, I believe Shrek would land the bigger chance of getting a spot before prehistoric Bugs Bunny does. That's basically what I'm saying about Mileena vs. Kano. She's the star now, so....

But anyways, I can see why you believe Kano is more iconic than Mileena. I just don't believe he is and especially not for the reasons you believe he is, but I understand what you're saying.

Well bye!

I actually have a bit of a problem with "Iconic" characters... "Iconic" just means popular. "Popular", for me, is often BORING.

One of the reasons I'm not too happy about this game, regardless of story, crossover, or gameplay changes, is that with a confirmed small roster of only "popular" characters, I don't see many GOOD, but less popular, characters getting a slot in.

The chances of seeing Sareena, Nitara, Ashrah, Hotaru, Kenshi, Frost, Tanya, Ermac, Rain, Li Mei, or Havik are VERY slim simply because none of them are really "old" enough to be considered "iconic" since they weren't around during the MKII days and thus aren't as well known as obvious shoe-ins like Sub-Zero and Scorpion.

Similarly, on the DC side, most, if not all, of my favorite DC heroes are NOT "Iconic". My favorite DC heroes include Azrael (and I swear I'm going to harp this guy till judgment day), The Question, Aztek, Nightwing, Simon Dark, The Huntress, Mister Miracle, Dr. Fate, and The Spectre, most of whom just aren't well-known, "iconic", or popular (and ironically almost half of them are dead or MIA. Go figure.)

I like Batman, I really do. And I like Sub-Zero. But honestly, going with the "obvious" choices I think is a rather poor move and missed opportunity to explore both universes and more obscure, more deserving characters. But the "less iconic" characters don't sell like Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman, or Green Lantern, so I kind of feel like, as both a MK and a DC fan, I'm getting a tad screwed here.

And that's making a pretty big assumption. (Also known as an incorrect and ill-thought-out one)

And FYI, no one outside select fan-boy website posters (like this one. yes, we are all guilty) gives a crap about Sindel. Get over it guys... she's not gonna be in it. EDIT: Most of you aren't really putting much effort into your thoughts and are just posting your favorite characters. If you honestly thought about if for long, you'd likely see that we aren't going to have a ninja-fest or all the freakin' robots or 2-game rejects in the game. I mean, come on, use some common sense if you're going to post.

lui kangs the best

Yup! I made a lot of assumptions. A whole list in fact. A List of Opinionated Assumptions. That's what we're all doing. Or did you get a press release you're not sharing?

Some people don't think Cage makes the cut, and some think Sindel will ... sorry? We could get Nitara in it for all anyone knows. Is that well-thought-out? Doesn't seem like it. But logic also dictates dead characters stay dead, Johnny. So WTF is going on? It's madness I tell you!

For the record I don't even like Sindel. Haven't since MK3. The only thing I like about her is the original mythology of her resurrection. I don't like Jax or any post-MKII Reptiles either. And I SUCK at using Shang Tsung. Yet they all made my list. I'm just placing my chips. I just happen to think that people are getting classic and iconic confused a lot. I mean the Armageddon of MK just happened, and they pick Blaze of all the "iconic" characters they could have pulled out of their asses to end it ... Blaze. What, Mokap was busy?
I don't think it's appropriate to talk about ill-thought-out ideas while taking MK seriously ... Portals keep showing up.

Though I most certainly grant that you could very well be correct and the most obvious, most played choices will make up this relatively small MK roster. But then you're assuming that they're going for classic/iconic over story/canon, all based on an early blurb from Ed Boon, aka "Master of Consistency". And what's more is after that you're making your guess as to what that means to the MK team ... vs DC.

In MY list of guesses I made 2 (admittedly long shots AND) biased picks - Kabal and Ashrah. I don't "logically" think they'll make the cut. But of course I'd be happy if they did. That's why it's MY list. And, no, I didn't feel like making a spreadsheet cross-referencing 60+ character's appearances in 10 MK games, 2 movies, a TV series, comics, covers, toys, arcade casings, and commercial time over how long they've been in the franchise, and then pull the numbers up in front of a market research group (uh, in-case you were going to ask).

But as per usual on boards like this, we are NOT actually deciding the final roster here. For better or worse it's in Boon and co.'s hands. And we rarely get what we want, even though we'd be a hell of a lot more inventive, dynamic and well-thought-out. I mean if the dev.s ever listened to it's hardcore fan base would we be talking about MK vs. DC right now?

Common sense ... pfft!

If what you wanted to read was logic, then I'm sorry to disappoint. Mr. Boon isn't exactly known for employing much of it either. So in essence, if one of us hopes to be right (like, dead-fucking-on right) about the roster of MK8 (aka MK vs. DC) ... one must think like an unimaginative goofus.

...

Hey, wanna hear my REAL super-biased-uncommonsensical-ill-thought-out MK8 list? No? Oh ... Sorry again I guess, cause here it is:
1. Scorpion
2. Sub-Zero
3. Raiden
4. Kabal
5. Fujin
6. Shang Tsung
7. Human Reptile
8. Ashrah
9. Noob
10. Ermac
11. Quan Chi
12. Kung Lao
13. Li Mei
14. Dairou
15. Baraka
16. Havik
17. Frost
18. Jade
19. NEW GUY
20. NEW GUY
21. NEW GIRL
22. NEW GIRL

Notice: As much as I truly love Green Lantern (HJ) he's not on my list.

Thank you. At least some people on these boards have some common sense. I was starting to think I was alone on this one. Thanks for supporting me.

I'm just hoping for Kitana to return!

She probably will. She's pretty iconic.

-Liu Kang -Subzero -Scorpion -Kitana -Mileena -Cage -Baraka -Kano -Raiden -Reptile -Sonya Im sure it will be the playable characters!!!

Is John Constantine a iconic character ?

There's almost a 100% chance Mileena & Kitana are in. But who knows. I'm hoping we can get a little Sindel action. If not, I'm hoping we can at least unlock
a few secret characters during the game.

I agree ^^. Boon himself even stated that both Mileena and Kitana are the equivalents to Scorpion and Sub-Zero. I personally think Mileena stands out more, & I'm not trying to be biased or anything, but yeah, I cross my fingers that she will be a *keeper*

The other iconic characters, I would have to say, would be: Sonya Blade, Johnny Cage, Jax, Liu Kang, Noob/Smoke, Ermac, and perhaps Goro

****Hey Xia:

But what I'm not getting is how is it Wonder Woman's fault if Poison Ivy or the Joker don't get in? You're saying that it'll be a shame for characters like them to be left out because a spot was "wasted" on Wonder Woman. I'm not following that logic. We can debate the iconic value of many characters and who deserves to be in or not....but there are some characters who are locks. In Mortal Kombat, Scorpion & Sub-Zero are locks. No one's debating their being icons and their value to the series. So if Poison Ivy gets in or does not get....how does it have anything to do with Wonder Woman? Aside from being an icon, Wonder Woman is one of DC's top heroes, pretty much the main female character, and...from a storyline perspective...she can fit into Mortal Kombat well since she has a mythological/magic background, is a martial artist, can & has killed, & fights sorcerers, gods, & monsters.

You misunderstood me, that’s why I said that for tastes and colors there's always a different opinion, in this case, yours and mine.

I was never questioning her importance or whether she should be in the game or not, that’s already known, I was simply stating that she is a waste when compared to other characters, who imagining them gameplay wise or whatever, inside this game, would do a much more interesting and exciting job. Some rather play as her, some don’t. This is more of a case of who I find, sincerely, more badass and exciting.

I'm not saying she shouldn’t be in the game, and I'm not saying its her fault others wont get in, I'm simply saying that I rather see cooler characters in this game then her. I’ve seen more love for the Joker and Poison Ivy around here then for Wonderwoman, but I havent heard anyone suggest her not being in the game, because like you said, she is a practically lock.

Just as a side note, we know Scorpion is in, and I know his iconic importance, same as Wonderwoman’s, but I too consider him a waste when thinking of other characters who could take his place. But that doesn’t really mean is his fault, is it? And neither am I suggesting he should be taken out, because he plays his part, but I would rather see more interesting characters kicking butt.

I guess its more like expressing the shame of this game having such a limited cast from both sides. Its almost positive we WONT see Poison Ivy, and that’s a real shame because she can offer much more then the suggested locks, but thankfully, the Joker has more chances, I hope, because he too can offer more.

I'm not questioning why they are in the game (WM and SCP) and I'm not saying its their fault others wont get in, I'm just saying that I would rather see more interesting deadly fighters instead of them. My opinion.

But I guess we’ll never know till we see what they do to Wonderwoman (who obviously is already in the game) and how they develop her powers and her style of kombat. Hopefully its something outstanding....But with all the info we know of these characters, there’s just no doubt that the Joker’s and Poisons Ivy’s specials would be a thousand times more memorable and fun then the ones of WM (of course if faithfully and accurately developed)...again, only time will tell.

For all I know, WM might end up having outstanding original/new specials or powers that haven’t been revealed in the canon comics, etc. that make her more fun to use.

I would like the Joker to get in and I wouldn't really mind if Poison Ivy got in....but whether they get in or not has nothing to do with Wonder Woman.

Yeah, that’s why I never said it was her fault.

But hey, from a completely objective point of view, do you honestly find Poison Ivy undeserving of a spot as well?

I was not being subjective when saying WM is a “waste”, because I am accepting her importance, involvement and I happen to like her quite a lot, but seeing how PI has developed, and how her powers and story would beautifully suit the MK darkness, I see her as a more interesting catch among fans and gp.

Just opinions though.

Besides, there's no need to worry since WM is already “in” and we can already assume that PI, sadly, might not get in at all, but we can still hope!

And I want to throw in one final point in regard to "icons" and who the "general public" is more likely to recognize or know....and this is a true story:

Back when they were thinking of making the Batman movie in 1989...early on, several producers seriously considered making it just like the old campy 60's Batman TV show with Bill Murray....yes, Bill Murray....as Batman. Do you know why they considered this ludicrous idea?

Because at the time, it was believed the "general public" would remember Batman more from the old TV show.

Luckily, cooler heads prevailed, and they realized that even if that was how the public saw Batman, no one would want to see that and the movie should show the public that is not how Batman really is. And thus, we got the dark, macabre Tim Burton Batman movie.

Just something to keep in mind when worrying about what the "general public" thinks.

That’s just one example, a good one, but one example that maybe wouldn’t apply, at all, in this case.

*****To QS(TB):

LOL. Exactly. I guess we both agree in our visions and I agree with your thoughts. Just one little thing though:

The controversial impact of MK has even been surpassed by many others games also, I think. Grand Theft Auto is enough to make MK's classic-day controversy appear like nothing in comparison. That's one reason I don't think the classic days are still vibrantly alive as you make it sound. The biggest role I think that the classic days play is giving MK fans that nostalgic feeling.

This is true, and because of that, it’s a lot more likely that the present and new MK games are even less alive and vibrant then the classics, because the new ones never reached that peak of controversy, attention and impact that the classics achieved, and I'm talking about a huge huge peak. If the classics aren’t as vibrant, maybe the new ones are less.

Of course this doesn’t apply to everyone (MKDA is simply THE masterpiece of MK games imo), but it’s a logical view of the situation.

Either way, I do understand and gree with your views as well, because theytoo make sense.



dQuarters, johnny_cage_win actually had a very decent and valid point when expressing his reply. You misunderstood him, he was not questioning all the things you thought he referred to by saying “And that's making a pretty big assumption. (Also known as an incorrect and ill-thought-out one”.

He actually made it quite clear by quoting the part he was referring about, because that *is* a pretty big assumption.



LOL. You know me buddy, always writing a bible to back up my ideas, opinions, thoughts, facts, whatever. How are you btw? Long time no see.



LOL. No problem.

I'm doin' OK, Queve. Thanks for asking. Hope you're doing good too. yes, it has been a long time....

....and now to the heart of the argument; I have to say that I don't know how to take your response, dQuarters. I didn't mean it as an attack, and I wasn't trying to be biased. If you look at my argument for who makes the game, see page 3. I actually put a lot of thought into it and tried not to be biased. I was merely pointing to the fact that people were posting a list without thinking. This is about the most iconic, the most recognizable characters in the series, not so much about the roster. I supported my believes with as many facts as I could, and tried to avoid presuming much without explaining why I did. You assumption didn't explain why you thought what you did, you just stated it as though it were fact, in your mind, and moved on. That's the only issue I had with it, albeit it is a rather large issue.

As far as Cage goes (I assume you were alluding that I had allowed my favoritism for this character to cloud my judgement), it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't make it, but I honestly think he will. He's the only MK character in recent history to make a spot in one of Game Informer's top character lists (top dorks, lol, for Shaolin Monks and turning his name into a verb- "you just got caged") and his stock really rose after said game showed his potential and the attention Vogel gave him on his Armageddon bio. If you don't believe that, fine, but to point to Game Informer again as evidence, they paid him little heed 'til SM, and after, they used him in nearly every theoretical example they wrote out about Armageddon's new aerial combat system. This isn't complete favoritism on my part--I'm trying to back up my list with facts.

Granted, though, I cannot be impartial about a world I have so much invested in. This is just a rant, and isn't really coherent with my previously articulated argument, but... blood and gore be damned, I care more about the characters and what makes them tick, not which ones look the coolest as they slice someone's head clean off their shoulders (hince my fav character isn't Baraka, it's one whose true potential is only really explored in the first movie and the last two MK games... though I am one of the few who actually liked his MK4 bio).

As far as logic dictating a character stay dead, people forget that this was never even an issue. Scorpion hasn't been in a single game in which he was alive. (let's all forget about MKMSZ, ok? ok) If we didn't allow ressurections (I'll grant him his first rebirth), he wouldn't have come back after 2 (if you think as I do, that for him to be in the netherealm in UMK3, he had to have been killed. Same goes for 4, but this is presumptuous), unless one claims that he wasn't killed until DA, when Quan Chi threw him into Shang Tsung's acid pool, killing him (after which he somehow escapes the netherealm again. This isn't explained nor is it understandable, as it's suppossed to be a hell from which one can't escape, a la Shinnok and Quan Chi's plight). So no preaching about death and resurections, please; it's an invalid argument.

For the record, Sindel is the ONLY character that I have stated will not make the game. I actually do like her, but she won't make the cut. Chastise me if you must, but it ain't gonna happen. I will give her props for being on one of Armageddon's collector's covers, but hers was also the one that could be found long after the others were gone. (Despite having Shao Kahn on it as well)

Response to jphnny_cage_win:

I was a bit defensive and very sarcastic in my reply. But you singled me out as someone with an "ill-thought-out" opinion. Not cool, and I felt it was pretty rude. But whatever. Bygones.
We move on...



A: This is only about the roster for the new game. That's why it's on this board. If we were talking about generally who's iconic in the entire series, I doubt this would be stickied in the MK vs. DC board.
And further more, iconic and recognizable are not the only words Boon chose to describe the roster decisions. He also used Popular, Core, and match-ups to DC characters as why they chose who they did. Basically, it's a crap-shoot.

B: I supported my opinion with facts when I thought it was needed. Raiden was the only one I didn't explain, because it's obvious he'll be in. And I also explained why I didn't include others. Read it again. Weather you disagree or not with my reasoning is a whole other issue that I'm more than willing to discuss.



C: That's fine. That's the same way I feel about a few of my choices. I don't think it's as necessary to back up opinion with fact as you do. But you already know my reasons and facts as to why JC ain't gonna make it back. But it's all opinion in the end.



D: Me too. But again, if the MK universe were in our hands, we wouldn't be having this conversation. All we can do is speculate on WTF goes on in Boon's head.

E: HAHA! Well fair enough. But we all know the outrage of not-having Scorpion in an MK. Which brings me back to what you called an ill-though-out assumption. I said "I'm pretty sure everyone's over Liu, Blade, Kano, and probably even Cage. IF NOT OVER, WILLING TO DO WITHOUT." Johnny Cage has been absent in MK3 and 6 and I'm sure that upset a bunch of people, but to quote John Tobais, it's NOT "like having Superman without the 'S'."
People ARE willing to do without him. They have before. Want facts? Okee... People were dancing (fighting) on Johnny's grave in MK3. And when UMK3 came out they brought in Scorpion, and Jade. Not Johnny. THEN they didn't include him again in MK:D. Would they have done that if my "assumptions" weren't correct? Bottom line is that people have been willing to do without all the MKI characters I mentioned above, supported by the fact that they have. Plain and simple. Take out Scorpion and Sub-Zero and see what happens. lol.
Fact: We've done without EVERY other character. Raiden is kind of an exception, because if he wasn't playable he was still very key to the story.

And I don't say this because I don't think Johnny is popular or iconic. I say it because I believe the team is done with Johnny. Not the fans. Same with Liu, Sonya and Kano (all iconic to some extent). And I believe that because of their absences in previous rosters. That being said, I think he's just as probable as Sindel (to whom I only gave a 51% chance BTW). I'm just guessing Sindel. It's fine that we disagree.

Speaking of Sindel... I couldn't care less if she's in or not. You probably like her more than I do. Just as you not being surprised if Johnny doesn't make the cut, neither would I for Sindel. And if my bias had a say, I'd sooner have a bunch of characters before her and a few other of my choices ( refer to my second/sarcastic list ).

But to end, I'm gonna say that if this game's roster ends up being MKI&II vs. DC I'm gonna throw up in my mouth at that announcement. I understand that's where most of the klassics came from, but that's only because these goombas haven't had the foresight to stick to some well liked characters invented after MKII. If Kabal had stuck to the roster in MK4 and MK:DA he'd be WAY more iconic than Kano or Sonya.

Okay- these aren't my favorite characters but these guys have a possibilty of being in MK vs. DC
1. Kung Lao
2. Kitana
3. Liu Kang (i'm kinda sick of the zombie thing but he's probably going in)
4. Sonya
5. Kano
6. J. Cage
7. Raiden (possibly) (hopefully not "dark" Raiden)
8. Scorpion
9. Reptile

otherway to say - all of MK1 characters plus some from MK2
And if Kitana's in it, Mileena has a small possibility. And obviously Sub-zero and Scorpion- we already know about them.

1-sub zero
2-scorpian
3-baraka
4-lui kang
5-kung lao
6-goro
7-stung tsung
8-raiden
9-shao kahn
now the characters that would get iconic status but i really personaly hate and think they have been overused

10-sonya
11-jax
12-johny cage personaly thou i rather see 2 female ninja rather then the last 3

Fail.



Fail.



Epic fail.

I will break this down into quotas...I've used the quotas to somewhat determine what I think the characters will be:


some possible stereoypes that characters could fit into, thus creating parallls between them:


Main Roster:

01. Their main goody two shoes hero (Liu Kang, Superman)
02. Their main dark hero (Sub-Zero, Batman)
03. A female hero (Sonya/ Kitana, Wonderwoman)
04. The sarcastic wisecracking hero (Johnny Cage, The Flash)
05. An african american character (Jax, The Black Green Lantern)
06. A Vengeful Type (Scorpion, Rosracach)
07. A female villain (Mileena, Catwoman)
08. a comically depravedy villain (Kano, Joker)
09. An intelligent "Mind over matter" type villain (Shang Tsung, Lex Luthor)
10. a Sub-Boss type monster (Goro, Doomsday)
11. The Super God boss (Shao Kahn, Darkseid)

after that list...there are still some popular characters missing....we'll probably see a few hidden characters filling out the roster.