infinites??? what scrubs were u playing.

@Raidenwins...

Oh, I've read your thread before. Still doesn't change my mind that MKD is only superior in presentation, not gameplay.

I can't fathom how somebody thinks that MKD takes more skill than MKA. There are so many more elements in MKA compared to MKD, that that alone forces a player to think and consider that much more.

50/50's for example. You compare MKA's Wake-up system to MKD's 50/50's. To me, those aren't comparable at all. Wake-ups in MKA don't lead to 50/50's... they lead to like 90/10's or 80/20's (stupid guesstimate). The only "MKD-type" 50/50's in MKA are possible with certain characters like Hotaru, Quan Chi, and Havik. And even then, there's only one move that sets up the 50/50. In MKD, even the character's most powerful combos end with a 50/50 situation. There's no deciding when to instigate those types of 50/50's. They're forced.

Not to say that MKA doesn't have 50/50's. The game, like all other fighting games, revolves around these types of scenarios. But again, they are completely different in MKD. MKD's are forced and offensive-based only.

You also compare the Parry-system in MKA to 50/50's in MKD. Again, not comparable in my eyes. Here's your quote...

"For example, if an opponent attacks me with a combo and I manage to block it, after the combo I have 2 choices, I can either immediately attack or simply walk-up to him and do nothing. If I opt to attack he might Parry and then punish me, but I might be a smart player and knowing that he will most likely Parry after his combo is over I might just walk-up to him as if I am attacking him to trick him into parrying, which will leave him open. But, if he is even smarter than me he will anticipate that and after his combo is finished he will simply start it over knowing that I am just sitting there waiting for him to parry. So you see, it all comes down to 1 out of 2 choices, i.e. 50/50 mind game."
-Raidenwins

Now, the very example you just gave explains how MKA's gameplay is superior. When do you ever have that many options in MKD? And those aren't even all the possibilities for that particular situation. Again, MKD gives the 50/50 to the offensive player only.

I want to stick to a couple of points at a time so that the discussion doesn't get too complicated... but I want to quickly mention lag for now (it may come up in more detail later)...

Lag in MKA is bad. Sometimes, it causes borderline unbelievable bullshit. But, to me, it's not any worse than MKD. It seems like people just forget what kind of garbage went on in MKD. MKA's lag is just different than MKD. And my personal theory is that the people who complain the loudest about it do so because MKA's lag doesn't benefit their style as well as MKD's lag did.

Just saying, if MKD were played at a serious level, that would be what the whole game was about.

Chaos - I assume you are referencing my ability to stop mid combo, switch styles and continue into another combo in MKD. lol. Annoying, but the same thing can be done offline, so how is that lag? Have you ever faced a laggy Bo in MKD?? lol. You would break your controller. 100% safe F+3, thats lag.

I think you just need to know how to deal with certain things, like opponents stopping mid combo, rather than write them off as lag. (Much like myself in MKA to a POINT.)


It is almost impossible to "watch, then counter" in any of those situations. What you must do is anticipate when I MAY stop the combo, and commit to your counter before hand. If you were more familiar with your opponents character, you would be able to counter those combos more effectively.

Much like MKA, in MKD you can interrupt combos by initiating an attack instead of in MKA using a parry. In other words, its the same strategy.



Now onto MKA.


The game is BROKEN. One of the most powerful statements in Raidenwins post. Whats the point of implementing new features for improved gameplay if they dont work?? BROKEN!!! Fun, but only in non-competitive matches.


A long time ago, in one of the old anticipating MK7 release threads, everyone was posting about the rumored features. They ONLY thing I was concerned about THEN was IMPROVED ONLINE GAMEPLAY. I could care less about KAK, wake ups, conquest, mario kart, 60+ characters, parries.....the only thing I hoped for was whatever they do, make it work online. This was years ago posted on this very site.

So when I whiff 50% of my moves, my opponent does things that I cant, and some of the most unbelievable bullshit I have ever experienced on any online game happens everyday, damn right Im going complain LOUDLY.


*** Note this has been overlooked by the entire community. MOVES WHIFF OFFLINE IN MKA ALSO. This game is BROKEN.

Its funny, Raidenwins keeps making reference to "car features" in his post. Its obvious people dont own their own car and cannot relate. Ill try to help you out. I have a TON of analogies that explain MKA gameplay.

QUESTION.

What is better - A broken down 2008 full loaded 745i BMW vs. a 96 used but EXTREMELY reliable Toyota Camry ---- Hint, you NEED a car to drive to work, and no, your boss is not like your high school teacher. If you come late, you are fired. In my case, I run my own business and I would be bankrupt. What would be the "better" car. On paper, the BMW......

No brainer, here. MKD is far superior in gameplay because it actually works.

Doohoo check your PM. Lets get some "live" games before I retire this thing.

Atari, I wasn't specifically talking about anybody as far as lag goes in MKD. My point was that lag caused equal bullshit in that game as it does in MKA.

Pit yourself against somebody who is safe off everything or who can recover from combos quick enough to have priority over your counter and think about how the games go.

With MKD's formula (plant, 50/50), you have much less of a chance at overcoming that type of stuff as you do in MKA. The reason is the options the game provides.

As far as whether or not those options "work"... I don't know what to tell you. I don't quite buy that you whiff on 50% of your attacks. I apologize. Some of the worst connections out there (Shujinkydink, Guapo, Jorge Jov) don't cause things to be as bad as you consistently make them out to be. You can't parry, wake-ups don't work for you, etc. I just don't buy all of that. How can it be so exponentially bad for you compared to everyone else. Maybe against certain player's connections... but you're consistent with everyone.

I'm sure their not perfect, and I'm sure certain techniques don't work as well for you as they do for others. In fact, I know that's true because I see it against me all the time.

But although my wake-ups are sometimes consistently side-stepped, or my opponents wake-ups track or reach, or my parries have a fraction of the "connecting" time that my opponent's do, or my opponent can jump out of things he shouldn't.... rarely is it to the point where all of that happens at the same time. That means there's rarely a time when I don't have an option to deal with a problem.

But it seems like you deal with all of that constantly. Against everyone.

And hey. Maybe that's the case. Maybe, for whatever reason, your house is located in a part of the country that just isn't compatible with MKA's online services. In that case, you're right. MKD has better gameplay. But for everyone that can land combos and can use parries and wake-ups, etc... MKA is the superior game.

too many long posts to read...keep it shorter

Chaos is right, MKD is crap compared to MKA gameplay wise.....just break both games down gameplay wise, forget online...because to some people "online" will never be legit to begin with, while others love it. So, let's just focus on the gameplay here.

Online play is smoother and better for MKD, yes..but what's the point if the gameplay itself overall is a broken mess?

Another thing I want to point out here on both games, I'll give two good examples of why MKA is better then MKD:

Situations:

Say you're in the corner in MKD vs. Bo or Smoke

Now, say you're in the corner in MKA vs. Bo Smoke....

Please tell me WHICH game it's easier to escape the corner pressure....I'd like everyone that believes MKD is better then MKA in here to answer this please honestly.

The answer is easy, due to the 50/50 being horribly broken and potentially ends the match in MKD if you get cornered against either of those characters (among others) but I'm listing them since they're among the worst in MKD when it comes to being cornered against.

Nobody can honestly tell me that the "QR" in MKD is better then the "wake up" implemented within MKA's gameplay. I've never, ever lost a match just in the corner in MKA like I have in MKD a whole round....hell, since I used to use N/S often in MKD very, very well second to B N R[the master N/S] of course I'll admit the corner pressure with Smoke is so easy to mix up and win a match it's pathetic.

Now, in MKA all I have to do is block and wake up when I want to and RARELY do I ever get parried. That's when mind games come in, or merely stay on the ground and tech roll out of the way...guess what? you couldn't do jack shit in MKD to get out of a situation like that.



Secondly, FT's(free throws) in MKD WERE KEY in HIGH LEVEL PLAY agreed everyone? And were pathetically easy off sidesteps, plants etc...in MKA that's not the case, most plants are gone except for a few here and there, still nothing like MKD's amount, the 50/50 game is drastically cut down due to parry's in MKA as oppose to nothing at all in MKD to defend against 50/50 mix up except except "pure lucky guessing" wow because that's a great option right there for the player..., also in MKA FT's can be take care of since the hit prior can be easily parried, in MKD not the case and there's FT's that lead to infinites. Sareena is one exception with her machine-gun knives however but most FT's aren't projectile based FT's midscreen anyway.



I totally understand and respect the fact that certain players on here and PS2 or just 3D MK fans will have their preferences (favorites)with MKDA, MKD or MKA being their "personal fav" which is fine but since we're talking MKD vs. MKA it's a nobrainer and fact that as far as "gameplay" is concerned MKA is the superior, better game because it offers more options to the player. Do I think it's perfect? not at all since the online play is poor, 33 and you have AC but even if you're talking "glitches" which takes more skill? the MKD scrub OTG, unbreakable Bo infinite tactic (that I learned the first time I tried it within 20 minutes the few times I tried it) or AC in MKA? Which does take some practice as even the AC players on here have said....



This is like saying well, what's better a Mustang or a Vette? Well, there can be 8 Mustang fans in here vs. say 3 Vette fans, that doesn't change the fact that the Vette is the superior car easily.

MKLegend - no one is saying MKD was problem free.

Chaos - Why are you turning this into who has it worse online? Thats not the point. The point is...it is there..... online AND offline. And when youre online, lag intensifies the new bullshit programming Midway TRIED to implement.
So much so, it is the deciding factor between two equally skilled opponents.

Thats not legit gameplay.

heres what i find funny about this topics, when u say offline and online... you all say mka is betetr offline, how do any of u know this, no one plays offline. you do realize that there are only a handful of moves that are safe offline, out i 60 charatcers i mean like 10 and under that are safe. so offline you would never attack cause you would be punished off any attach with a 50% ac combo.

mka was desgined to try and be better than mkd, but the gameplay isnt cause it does not work like planned, the parry is a joke, offline it prob works, online its as broken as mkd cause of the way lag effects it, i have people who parry, and throw a 2nd one as i attack, yeah real good move, works real well.

when u talk about mkd and mka u have to use online as you arguement cause 99% of competitive games are played online, so with that said, online mkd blows mka away, cause the lag dont dictate gameplay, character choice does.

Right, and I won't disagree with that. My intention wasn't to focus on lag. I just got side-tracked with you, specifically. The only reason I brought up lag is because it seems like a lot of people believe that lag didn't cause that same thing in Deception. It did.

Neither one of these games can be considered "legit" when considering online elements. But some people act like Deception's lag didn't effect gameplay. To me, that's wrong.



@Red

Once again... I know those things you talked about exist. But you act as if it's like that with every player out there. Not everybody instant-parries. Not everybody's wake-ups reach and track. Not everybody can jump away from EVERYTHING.

You're telling me that character selection dictates who wins in MKD. Ok, so the god-tiers in MKD were more dominant than in MKA. And now you don't have that. I'm sorry. But the online play doesn't dictate any more in MKA than in MKD.

Remember Bobby's Noob-Smoke? YWP's Scorpion? ChampionTiger's Jade? And a bunch of others I could mention. Are you telling me lag didn't dictate those matches? It was the same garbage.

The only thing I can assume you're talking about is how you could pick Bo or Dai to overcome lag in MKD because they were such dominant characters. Fine, they were better than Scorpion and Sareena in MKA. But that doesn't mean lag is worse.

*sigh*

This is why MK is never considered to be in big-time tournaments. You go to EVO and mention MK people there will either look at you funny or just laugh at you and tell you how much of a joke it is.

Yeah, cuz we're all big enough dorks not to go to EVO.

Or at least we'll take the opinions of people who go to videogame tournaments more serious.

Did I say I go to EVO? No. It would be nice to go to at least one just to see what it's all about. Plus you probably wouldn't know a well balanced fighting game if it bit you in the ass.

...

Did I say you go to EVO? No.

I just confronted you when you said we should care what guys who go to video game tournaments any more than a more casual player. Maybe it's just me, but I don't exactly respect those people any more for that.

Also, I could give two shits if a balanced fighting game bites me in the ass. Apparently you haven't read my reasons for being a Mortal Kombat fan.

I like the presentation of the game. Characters, theme, music, and all that good stuff. I see that's our difference.

If MK8 is "sub-par" compared to Tekken's gameplay, but it looks fucking cool as shit and is insanely dark and moody and has bad-ass characters, etc... I would be just as happy.

You on the other hand seem like the kind of guy who would pass up on that kind of game and play a game based around Barbie characters so long as it was a great balanced engine.

Do what you like. I'm not "hardcore" enough to look past the overall presentation of the game/series.

Evo's overrated anyway...it stays in the same spot EVERY year, lame IMO because that automatically limits lots of talented players that can't travel...I'll get to my idea on improving that in a sec.


Nahh, you see this is why none of the recent "3D MK"s can never go to evo due to the glitches(especially MKD), however UMK3 has been there and there have been many MK2 tournaments in certain hotspots thru out the country as well. You just have to look in the hot spots. Only problem is, especially on this forum...most players on PS2 and Xbox online forums here don't play or in some (rare and shocking cases) never even played MK2 or UMK3 all together.....and prefer the 3D MKs

Honestly though, like I said before, Evo seems overrated......they've had some fighting games that have also had problems or an issue or two and it's in a horrible spot in Vegas for people who can't travel or don't have the means. But FTR MK isn't the only "fighting series"(3D games) to have issues, I can name you a few titles right now that do, SF II, certain Tekken games, SC, MVC2, SF EX, SSB series(yes it is a fighter believe it or not and yes it does have problems, in fact I know a few hardcore players personally that found infinites in Brawl..)

They should IMO travel all over the country year to year like all star games in sports, one year in Vegas, another in Cali, another in NYC if someone wants to compete "that bad" then chances are they'll have the means and can travel anyway but that's not the case with everyone nationwide unfortunately, that's why I think it's a great idea personally for something like Evo to hop from state to state randomly nationwide. I guarantee that would make things more interesting with many talented players in certain fighters that can't make it to Vegas.


Then there's the tournament fee which I've always felt in a tournament(was utterly dumb and pointless) so say there's a MKA tournament where 30 players max can sign up on April 30th 08 in Woodbridge NJ and players from NYC and NJ enter, and there's a 50 buck fee or let's say 10 buck, unless you're REALLY, REALLY good or confident it's a waste of money. They can have a free tournament with big prizes, they had one for SSBB a few weeks back on launch at gamestops, free up to 20 players or so per GS and if you keep winning you go on and play the rest of the world for a 5000 prize plus a new wii with games...so they can create a tournament with NO money fee. I'd love to hold a SI/BK MKT tournament for either N64 or PS(both are broken anyway) so to me it doesn't really matter but there could be some ground rules.

On what Chaos, on what you just said now on MK's storyline, characters, originality, darkness etc. That's the main reason why I love it, despite of some gamers thinking it's "average" fighting game, it's A. not the only game to "have issues" and B. a lot of stuff is mere opinion anyway most of the time on why someone dislikes a certain game. Example, Halo I don't like it and feel it's overrated but at the same time I respect it because of the impact it's had in the gaming industry just as I would MK if I didn't like it, MK is still one of the most well known, popular, continuing in longevity of series in fighting games within the industry today despite the fact of who hates it or such. That's a fact.

It's really no question when it comes to the stuff you brought up Chaos that MK's king and always will be. That's why I love it because it's different, has a damn good storyline for a fighting game compared to the rest of the crap out there in the genre and has very compelling and appealing characters, not to mention the darkness and mood of it.

I mean (this is my opinion personally) I don't know who here agrees or disagrees but I'm honestly surprised more fighting games aren't as serious, instead they sport this PG13 happy go lucky element with lots of bright colors, skies etc as oppose to MK that's dead serious, dark, creepy which IMO is what a fighting game(violence, wanting to defeat and kill your foe) should be about.

I guess that's the difference with gamers overall, different things appeal to different gamers. Some like just storyline, others just gameplay, others just online play and some fans like myself like a good balance of everything.

Commenting on the JTF's Kobra bit, that is how he's best played, though. Low fireball turtle. He's not a rushdown character by any means.

Chaos - I don’t remember whiffing moves in MKD. There were less safe moves also, just that they were more effective.


*Another thing I meant to tell you about those "button mashing" combos in MKD in case you were unaware. - You know that box in the right hand corner?

Red light indicator is your recovery time until next attack and the Blue means the opponent cant block during there recovery.

Heres the catch....if you stop at a certain point during a dial combo with certain characters, you can restart the combo while your opponent can’t block. Again, not lag. Just poor programming.

**MKA Bo 44 and Kenshi 33 are not new. But to fix it would mean your opponent could block during a dial combo. Like Cyrax combos.

This is off topic... Sorry for gatecrashing your thread Atari...

Who opened up the thread yesterday with questions to MKF? I think it has now been deleted. It smelled like JTF but if it wasn't him then whomever did it surely is starting to smell like JTF's ass. How do you guys get the time to perform such idiotic task just to start shit? The whole drama is now totally laughable and sad all at the same time.

Trax

@Azuro, I know Kobra isn't nearly the beast he was in MKD in MKA but at the same time, he can be played offensively. I'm not sure since you're on the PS2 side but if you ever played eazytobeat or Alexi09(when he played MKA) they both have good offensive Kobra's besides a solid Defense..


JTF just turtles all day, shoot's fireballs he doesn't charge, doesn't have any solid offense...

I'm confident I'd take out his Kobra with ease with low tier Fujin who is a key turtle character however, I've won lots with him on xbox utilizing his offense besides an annoying defense (which is necessary with Fujin) but I'm one of those players that doesn't like relying on just "defense"

Kobra is well toned down compared to the way he was in MKD, however that doesn't mean you can't be offensive with him. You have to have some kind of "offense" with every character, by relying on just turtling you have to hope your opponent does something stupid.

Not gonna deny that Kobra can be offensive. Considering how I played with Kobra, as well as watching guys like L7RIU, Kobra can be a pain in the ass with low fireballs up close and weapon U4. I would say the only problem with being offensive with Kobra is he doesn't pack a safe mid with decent startup. DB4 is safe and can be reliable, but you can see it coming well before it hits, so it doesn't connect as much, and 3422 in weapon is unsafe. But anything is better than nothing. Kobra can play offensive, no doubt, but given his options, I find it more reliable to stay defensive an annoying with him.

Being completely defensive isn't a bad thing, really. In some cases, a good offense is a great defense, like in the case of Dairou or Frost.

EDIT: I just realized my first post on Kobra was worded wrong. I simply meant he's more well suited for defense than offense

I don't use Frost but I do use Dairou, he can be played offensively or defensively which is why I like him ; )

On Kobra, I agree more what you said the first time lol. On he can be played offensively, then again I'm also going based on the few good players that use him like eazy and alex(on this side xbox) at some point I just feel that you have to be offensive with nearly everyone as oppose to counter or strick defense with no or mediocre offense know what I mean?

Another thing I noticed is, when I played a guy named Jorge Jov (a former KAK abuser turned legit on xbox) few weeks ago he picked kobra and he lags a little so his fireball, weapon set ups were working better for him since he was ultra safe lol. To give you an idea, a low fireball that you can jump over and kick he was able to block that's how bad the lag was at times, shoot, recover and block jk lol. So I just out-turtled him, I couldn't counter him due to the lag so I just out-turtled him and picked my master turtle characters like Ermac, Kabal and Fujin. I'd bait him with their specials once he made a mistake and worked out better then me just "trying to counter him" since he was so safe no doubt due to the connection.

I also think it also depends on the players "style" as well, some like just defense(which is good, as long as you have some offense that works) all offense(which was great in MKD but since MKA has wake up, parries you have to think twice before going all offense you know?

If you have any vids on youtube man showing your Kobra let me know dude. I'll check em out

You know UMK3 is becoming big in their forums right? :P

But anyway, if you ban certain aspects of a fighting game then it can definitely be played at EVO (like ST Akuma) MKA you could play, but there are too many other in depth 3D fighting games, MKDA also has a small chance but thats it.

MKF,

As usual your arguments are weak and plain don't make sense. Basically what you said above is that because some players are not good at MKA but were good in MKD they think the latter is better than the former, while in reality, according to you, it is exactly the other way around. Hmm, talk about a circular argument...

To put it simply, this is just not true. I don't know what else to tell you. And by the way, I seem to remember Alexei using that argument originally on my MKD vs. MKA thread. Are you sure you didn't borrow it from him, because I don't seem to recall you ever using it until after Alexei used it? Kind of like you kept repeating MasterMalone's false arguments over and over again.