Breakers really could be seen as one of the most profound testaments to the laziness of the Mk team. Mk:DA comes out and it spouts glitches in people's faces. What it also spouts is a completely broken system in which it is possible to mercilessly pummel your opponent, never giving them a chance to get back up, due to a lack of a wake-up system!
People complain...
Then, MK: D comes out... We then see that the game hasn't fixed this problem area with wake-up options... Oh, no, that would be too difficult!
Instead, Breakers are introduced: Your opponent attacks, attempting to force you into an unstoppable chain of death, you block the initial attack and simultaneously press towards the opponent, initiating a Breaker...
A Breaker does what it says; it Breaks the opponent's Combo chain.
You are given three a match, in an attempt to lend a tactical side to this system; unfortunately this fails brilliantly.
In my first post in this thread, I said that I felt Breakers gave the game an edge of tactics - I was kidding myself, I was talking utter BS... I admit what I said earlier was ludicrous - I am able to admit when I am mistaken, unlike some people...
Back to Breakers.
Instead of using this poor attempt at fixing infinates, the team should have just brought a wake-up game into play.
In Tekken: I am fighting an Mk: D player who has never encountered wake-ups before. He grounds me with a power move and rushes up to continue his assault in time to me getting up from the floor, because he assumes that all fighting games recover automatically in the exact same time-frame.
He is wrong.
I wait till the right moment, before springing up with a double kick. The opponent is winded and I have gained the advantage.

Again, Tekken = best example.

In Mk: D, if two high level players are fighting, the one who is grounded first, is immediately near to being the loser.
We need wake-ups, that's obvious.
Breakers themselves would never have existed if a wake-up game was in Mk: D. They could have used reversals, counters and parries, as people have been saying all along.

I see Breakers as a lazy attempt to cover up a lack of fundamental features.
I hate to call a team lazy, so instead, perhaps they simply focussed all of their efforts in the wrong place. Yeah, I'll buy that, what with all the mini-games and christmas lights. Still, it is hard to believe.
We've said this before, but Breakers really take the biscuit don't they?

It's the thing that really hits home the problems of this game. Breakers, if you think logically why they were created, just smack of ignorance.
It's not laziness, then, it's a an igorance to adressing faults.

Wake-up, Midway!

I agree with everything you said about the breakers except that I think it IS laziness, and not ignorance.

Reason being is that they KNOW the problems are there in MKD, and they slap a crude 'quick-fix' (which fixes fuck-all) with the combo breakers.

It has happened time and again in Mortal Kombat. Most notably it occured in MK4/MKG with 'Maximum Damage', a huge cop-out from properly testing the game for brokeness. There was even Max damage of sorts in MK2 and MK1, where if the combo was too damaging your character would get flung back (even if they weren't in the corner) - check out Konqrr's MK2 vid for great examples of this, and MK2KB's post in the "was mk4 a good game for it's time" thread in the Classic Forum for thorough explanation of the combo breakers' predecessor --- Maximum Damage.

Therefore it's not surprising that they tried to cover up their laziness with a lame 'solution', since they've done it throughout the series.

===

On another note, I think it's ironic that online, the biggest selling point of MKD, turned out to highlight the MK team's incompetance more than anything ever before.

It's time for a propely tested and balanced game, one without these half-assed band aid measures...the fans deserve and demand it.

It's a double-edged sword.

If we call the programmers lazy and exhibit clear reasons as to why, we may be bringing problems to light, but the fact that we are suggesting ineptness of this type, means that the programmers may turn a blind eye and ignore us. They don't want to seem lazy, on the other hand, so maybe that will be their wake-up call to action. I don't think "double-edged sword" is the right term, but it is certain that we cannot know how the core programmers will react when problems are blamed down to being half-assed on their part.
I do not know the details, but ray was fired by Boon for addressing problems, right? I would not label him as such, but maybe it's a trademark of Boon to ignore constructive critiscism?


Maybe Mk7 will stink?




Maybe it's only a game?


(possible double post)

FUCK YOU TOO ANYBODY THAT THINKS MK SUCKS

Please hit the submit button once in future. And there’s no need to insult anyone. Thanks. tgrant

......And the "Great Scrub Invasion" continues........

Hey Bing King, if any of those players ever heard you say that about the players i was talking about, they would laugh in your face and mock you for life.The players i was talking about from older UMK3 matches were the best comp in my area first off.Second off, show me some proof that you played this supposed guy that never got beated, RIGHHHHHHTTTT!!
So sure thats true lol.

As for the Deception players you called scrubs, ha, ha, mind coming on to the live forums and speaking your mind??Thats what i thought, because you know better, you would get gang banged over there if you ever said something like that.And you say i'm a pussy and run away, lol yet you are afraid of a little bit of pussy lag.Well, thats the point of online, you might get some lag once in a blue.Deal with it and stop crying over it like a child who can't get his or her way.*cough* excuse LOL

I never said i was poor, now you're lying i said i'm not the wealthiest person on Earth, you like the media, you misinterpret what someone says and totally misquote them.

I did say that girls are bitches at times, but not all and if you find a smart girl, a nice true down to earth girl, you know not a bitch.you spend no money on your girl??WOW, might want to consider it unless you have been with her for a few years which i know you haven't because you told me PM that you were juggling three girls at one point a few months ago.Hint:spend it on the girl rather than wasting it on a few MK matches that she probably couldn't give two shits about.It's beena while since my last GF, but every guy with half a brain knows that his girl loves to be babied with love and small things.At least where i'm from.But then again, the girls around me are a real challenge, near you in atlanta the girls are easy i bet.I met a girl on live once from atlanta, shit she was impressed just by the way i sounded lol.Enough said.Up where i'm from it's going to take more that just a "hi i'm trueking from tekken heheh you have a pretty smile"kind of BS.

You keep repeating yourself Bing King, saying shit like this is i think you're stupid yada, yada, yada, along with your dumb immature phrase concerning nirvana.

Please come up with something new because i feel like i'm in a room where the Boombox broke and keeps playing the dame tune over and over and over again.

Better yet record your high pitched voice onto a CD or tape, then say the stupidass phrase and put it as an animated sig for me to listen too everytime i come this way i can laugh at how feminine you sound.LOL

hey ummm MKFLegend

I don't know if you realize this, but your posts are all OT (off topic)

if you have something personal to say about someone or better yet to them.

There this great pm feature on the site...

ANYWAY

I wouldn't say the MK team is lazy or anything like that....Ed has full control of the gameplay. The MK team is also VERY hardworking, I got my work ethic partially from them.

SO any problem or even compliment you have of MK should probably be directed at Ed. He's the lead so he gets the full credit for everything as well as the blame. MK belongs to Ed Boon.

Here's a novel idea...Maybe Ed really does know he can't compete vs. the legit fighters. SO he approaches the design of MK from a different perspective. He loads the game full of features so that just about any casual gamer can feel like they got a well rounded product. The only people that can tell the difference are the hardcore fighting game enthusiasts, realistically speaking the true fighting expert really does only take up a small part of the market. So he aims the game toward the mass market/casual gamer....which in all honesty is the right decision. Seriously...he's still a very rich man regardless of how we bitch and moan. ANd MK is still successful and going strong. So who's really right? Can you blame him? The only way it will change is if people stop buying MK....THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE IT CHANGE.

I think Midway is in a situation that even MK can't fix....things look really grim despite the efforts of 2004.

I knew that Area 51 and Unreal 2 would be considered good...but not runaway hits, which is what Midway really needed. FPS is just way too competetive and the Unreal 2 game is kind of a niche type of game and doesnt really cater to a wide audience, maybe too ambitious to be mass market.

I think the RTS they have was probably a bad decision and probably won't sell all that well.

LA rush can't compete with Burnout 4, etc.
Blitz never could hold a candle to Madden, especially NOW JEEZ.
I knew NARC was bad...GTA without the car jacking YUCK.

The Suffering will be good and SHaolin Monks will sell on name alone...is it enough to keep the company afloat and turn a profit? Dunno...

I hope Stranglehold (formerly the Psi Ops Team) will do well, but that may be a niche game as well. Very much like Psi Ops.

I don't think Midway is investing in the right intellectual properties...and they are throwing major dollars after bad projects that should probably have been canned.

We are in an age where licensing is god, and midway doesn't seem to be investing in that at all. They already tried to revive classic games in the current gen by revamping them....spyhunter, gauntlet, defender. They failed and I think that they are choosing the wrong titles to revamp.

What about modern versions of Joust, robotron, or SMash TV?

That would RoXXXorZ my BoXXXorZ. LOL. I always wanted to type that :)

Anyway...I worry about them. They need smarter management and better designers. Both of which are rare indeed.

They had one....but some arrogant/ignorant people over there didn't realize what they had.

Well said. Please stop spamming the thread.



That's all true, but if he payed attention to what the minority in the US wanted, i'm sure he'd have a monster rather than a gaint. A well designed MK game could break into Asian markets where many people are competitive, and he'd be making far more money.

The only problem I have with the whole "MK is for casuals" argument is that Tekken and Soul Calibur out-sell MK all the time. Far more casuals play those two games than MK and those two games are far better. But you're right regardless. The hardcore fighting game players are such a small percentage.

While the percentage of players that truly understand the game or players that want to understand the game to its finest points are much smaller than the casual player, we can all see that Deception's gameplay is weak and horrible even at the casual level. Many people go online and what they see is repeated 50/50's on them that will just frustrate many new players as they won't be able to do anything even against casual players like themselves. I think most on these boards that say they enjoy MKD don't go online with it because of the problems they were faced to admit online, which just goes to show how broken it is. I don't mind if a game is broken at the highest levels of play, but when casual players fight other casual players and feel that the game is unbearable, it is extremely sad.

Then you have Xbox Live players who supposedly have to go and make up their own rules and call it "honorable" play because the game is just that broke and easy to abuse.

It just seems sad that all levels of play on MKD are destroyed by the mechanics that is there because even a below-average fighting game wasn't created in MKD. (They woulda had more success packing in MK2 and UMK3 as bonuses and letting those go online.) I agree with MENTHOL though, Soul Calibur is probably the biggest 3d fighter with the most casual players - SC2 outsold MKD. Tekken as well, but I'm pretty sure SC topped it off in sales for 3d fighters in the US.

Yeah Ray, looking at Midway's titles definitely show that they are going to have some major problems. Which of course contributes to MK getting rushed out every year and all like you said.

One of the reasons I don't think MK is designed for the casual gamer is because when Deadly Alliance was released Boon and Vogel made very clear that the major overhaul of the game was done because they wanted to attract the hardcore fanbase that Tekken, Virtua Fighter, and Soul Calibur already had. So from what I can tell, they ARE doing what they believe caters to the hardcore. That's the main problem as I see it. If they were only thinking of the casual crowd then maybe they could be convinced to fix things because they would want the hardcore player as well. But if they actually believe they're doing what they should to attract the hardcore then what's going to convince them to change?

Besides, I generally tend not to believe in the idea that some games are designed for the hardcore gamer and some for the casual because what that implies is that the casual gamer is more willing to accept lower quality games. Well, why would a development team with half a brain intentionally make a game worse than it could be? It's not like one studio says, "Well, we're making a hardcore game this time so let's work really hard." While another says, "This game is only a casual game so we don't have to worry so much about quality." All games are technically designed with the casual gamer in mind unless it's an extremely niche game like what Treasure makes or something. It's clear that companies love it when they make a game that will attract the everyday guy who didn't previously follow the series or development process. Boon and Co. genuinely believe Deception is a good game for casual and hardcore players.

"That's all true, but if he payed attention to what the minority in the US wanted, i'm sure he'd have a monster rather than a gaint. A well designed MK game could break into Asian markets where many people are competitive, and he'd be making far more money."

Well said, I agree.

And yeah Namco is kickin Mk's ass. I don't know if MK could make it in the asian market...even if it was a good game. I'm asian, and sometimes I'm insulted by some of the stereotypes in MK.

Most of the models that are intended to look asian don't look the part.

It's depressing when you think about how much MK would have to change in order to be taken seriously just in the American market.

Ed knows the problems...I told him myself. I told him every grievance I had with MKD before I left and I'm proud to say, I haven't touched it since. After getting back into the Namco games and SF3rd Strike, playing MK became impossible not to mention frustarting.

Which ISN'T the right decision. That is what destroyed MK, there is little MK left in MKDA en MKD, because they tried to appeal to the masses. Midway is using the game to save their asses, which if sum of u are right, might fail. In the end...what do u got...a game that changed the fighting genre and should be a classic, but ends as a cash cow.

When I bought MKDA, I was showing off and praising MK like I did when I discovered MK 1 in the arcade hall. I didn't want to see how MK had fallen because of pride, but after a while I realized. Now I STILL HAVEN'T finished MKD with every character, Memorized all the fatalities and played the game till I'm a zombie. It just sits in my collestion of games collecting dust.

The best decision is to leave MK for what it is or was. Maybe Tobias can smack some sense in Boon and they can join forces and make a new fighting game in the spirit of MK, witout Midway.

This is IMO offcourse. I never reply on these threads, but this had 2 come out.

I think you are meaning to call me bling king but you're not even getting that right.

As for your players I'm sure they did rock your world and everybody in your area however the top players in the country were in chicago portland and california. So whether you like it or not your friends who think they own at the game would get owned badly by players from portland, where I'm from. Ask john choi, the california champion, what happened when they played. Choi got beat with kano who is the worst on the game and we won't discuss what happened when karl actually used a main character. What proof would you like that I played karl? He's my best friend so I'm sure I could get you whatever proof you'd like. Portland scrubs > your best players.




I'm sorry what deception players did I call scrubs other than you? You say I'm afraid of lag when I want to play for money. Lag is a variable it makes the game play different from how it is intended to play I realize you do not understand this concept especially since you seem to think that if the ps2 or xbox did an online version of umk3 it would be less laggy than the pc version. You wonder why I call you stupid... Anyway if I'm playing for money why would I want a randomizer? If you played a game of basketball and the hoop would randomly change heights would you really want to play for money? If one player, myself, were significantly better than the other player, you, I would be placed at a disadvantage. I wouldn't be able to use the same tactics I wouldn't be able to do all the same combo's because of the variable lag. So why would I want to play you for money with a HUGE variable that helps you and hurts me? See it's stupid to call me a pussy because I want a fair game that is played the way it is meant to be played and you want to play on a game with a variable. Lets take your yankees as an example would you want them to play the world series with only 8 players on the field while the other team had 10 players? No it wouldn't make sense they would be at a disadvanatage and wouldn't be able to play to their full potential, which after last years playoffs doesn't seem to be much. How about if they were to play with 1 out instead of 3 vs an opponent that had 4 outs? They would be limited in how they could play while the other team could win despitie being worse. I know this is far beyond your intelligence to understand but I'm really just making fun of you now for the entertainment of others. So again you challenged me to any MK game. I accepted on mk 2 and ultimate and put money on my victory. Suddenly you didn't want to play in person suddenly you don't remember making that claim to me. Suddenly you don't have the time to play despite me traveling yet you can play online. Suddenly you sound like you're making a hell of a lot of excuses about why you can't play me with something on the line. Maybe pussylegend is a better name than wtflegend. Don't make challenges you aren't willing to back up.



You said you couldn't afford to play for money in other words you're too poor to play for money. You said it in your last post as well. If you're going to try to claim you didn't say something at least edit your post idiot. I didn't misquote anything read your own drivel.



Actually you never said that. You made it very clear you couldn't get women and they all just used you.



Ok I was juggling 3 girls and you're juggling your balls and you're giving me advice on women. You're complaining women just want money and I have no problem getting them spending no money on them. You're really not in a position to give me any kind of advice on women genius. Lets look again it's been awhile since your last girlfriend and I was juggling 3 girls and you're telling me how to go about treating women. You're a real smart one there son. Now you're trying to claim women in atlanta are easier to get to know. Thats the lamest claim I've ever seen. First off atlanta is a professional city meaning the women here often have less time for things making it more difficult to get to know them then most places. Second attractive women here are expecting to get treated a certain way and to have money spent on them yet I manage to get them without doing that hmm.... means I must know something you don't about women. Fact is wtflegend women are the same everywhere in the us and reallly around the world. You can't get women because you're a scrub and have a scrub mentality. Quit being a loser and you'll have no issues finding women without having to pay for them.



I keep repeating myself because you do. I keep calling you stupid because you keep saying stupid things. Every post something stupid is said. I don't think you've ever had a post in your entire life where you didn't manage to say something moronic. At least in my posts I actually respond to what people say. You ignore it for a few posts and make the same moronic claim again. You never address anything. You never make a point. You hardly ever make sense and you are just botton line clueless. As for my nirvana comment it's not dumb, if it was you'd understand what it means, it's actually witty. Call it immature if you want but people in glass houses....




I did come up with the darwin comment last time that was new and pussylegend this time oh and please don't think it's the good kind either. Now you're saying I sound feminine when I've got a deep voice. Seriously man come up with something thats halfway intelligent 5 year olds have better insults than that. If I really wanted to be anal I'd point out that you spelled same wrong it's an S not a D and don't say it was a typo because when I make typo's it's not ok at least when I misspell a word its still phonetically correct whats that say about your intelligence wtflegend? Hooked on phonics really didn't work for you now did it.

I feel like I've been locked in the room with the special ed students from my highschool that were considered "problem children" when I converse with you.



Well MK never did change the genre in any way. It's main points were blood and dark stories but that wasn't something that carried thru to other titles. The vast majority of fighting games that are successful do so without anything that MK was famous for.

I honestly feel that online play has done far more to hurt MK than it did to help it. As was said earlier the casual gamer may not have picked up on engine flaws but the second they go online they see 50/50's. They may also encounter the other flaws such as infinites throw combo's etc... and it's easy for even them to realize the game is flawed. Granted initially they will have the scrub mentality reaction, that we see on xbox live, and say that it's cheap. They deny the game is broken and claim the players are breaking it. Eventually the denial fades and they realize that what they have is a piece of garbage with a lot of fluff. They realize that the "cheap" players are not cheap they are simply playing the game they were given to the best of their ability. To make the game playable you have to make rules about what is and isn't allowed and even then it still doesn't hold up too well.

The fact that there is online play with this game means the broken gameplay is exposed to far more people as such far less people will want to get another MK as a result. It's the arguement that I've seen from DOA players as well. The online play for DOAU is broken because of the minimum 5 frames of lag(thats 1/12th of a second for wtflegend) and it becomes nearly unplayable. It turns from an average game into a horrible game and new players see this and are turned off by it. If tekken 5 were online people would see how broken it becomes when you add in 5+ frames of lag and would think that it was a bad game just from the online portion of the game. The reality is tekken 5 is one of the best 3d fighters ever made but it still isn't able to fucntion online.

Something I feel should be pointed out.

Although it seems like it would be obvious to any entity with even a trace of sentience, many scrubs are still coming in and complaining that we aren't allowing them to say they have fun with MK:D.

To the scrubs, this is not the case. You may certainly have fun with MK: D (though the question of how seems unanswerable). What are not allowed to do is this:

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO CALL MK: D A GOOD GAME

That is all.

Why do casual players need to be referred to as "scrubs." If that's the case, then I think all hardcore gameplay players should be called "losers with no life."

No offense to gameplay players. I'm just trying to make a point that calling casuals "scrubs" is pretty ignorant.

People are allowed to call it whatever they want.

If someone is going to call Mk: D a good game, then they should atleast give reasons why they think it's good.
Mk: D IS a good game if you like a game crammed with extras and simplistic gameplay... If you like an unbroken fighting masterpiece, then Mk: D is a pile of steaming turd...
It all depends on the type of game you like.
Mk: D is playable, just not at a highly competitive level.
If someone has fun playing it, then to them it is a good game.

FACT:
Mk: D is a horribly broken game...Infinates, Uni Tracking...etc

OPINION:
Mk: D is a good game to me, because I like the Characters/story/random pummeling of AI...etc

Good or bad is really down to opinion, but it remains a fact that Mk: D is a poorly made game.
So, it is both bad and good at the same time.

Being a casual player doesn't automatically qualify them as scrubs, it's certainly not what I thought atleast, there's a certain amount of stupidity and ignorance that has to be displayed before I'll consider labelling anyone with such a strong word.

Ok I admit, I was exaggerating there. I meant that MK brought new flavas in the genre.......gore, real life looking characters, good use of storylines.

Well both statements are very ignorant. First off hardcore players are far from losers. They have a mentality that makes them a great player and that mentality carries over to the rest of their life. Most hardcore players play semi infrequently usually one or two days a week for under 3 hours total for the week. Hardcore players though will take advantage of all resources and tend to be creative and innovative as such they need less playtime to excel at the game. This holds true for the top players on most of the games sure there are times when you'll play an excessive amount such as at a tournament or preparation for a tournament but just as often there will be periods where you don't play at all. At my peak when I was top 5-10 at tekken 3 I played 30 minutes a day max and that was only on days I worked at a parttime job on my lunch.

Now the same thing applies to the term scrub. Most people think scrub has to do with skill level but it really doesn't. It's a mentality and you see it in all levels of players from the masher just starting out to the seasoned pro. The scrub usually whines about things they find cheap. The scrub usually has his own set of rules(see wtflegend and the live players) that they feel everybody must adhere to. The scrub likes to make excuses why he lost or why he won't play you or why he ran his mouth and challenged you then backed down when he realized you would probably beat him(see wtflegend for examples of this as well). The scrub likes to try to argue things without having any real points(see wtflegend yet again). The scrub is stuck looking at the world from a small window or frame of reference and often misses the big picture(wtf again). As you can see anybody can be a scrub and just because you are a casual gamer doesn't mean you are one however it's more prevalent in casual gamers because they don't put in the time to really learn the system so their first reaction is to label something cheap or cheesy.

Numbnuts, did you not read the last sentence I wrote? I explained the statement was only meant to make a point about how ignorant it is to label a certain type of player.

Actually I did read the last sentence moron but I went to difuse that myth as well as the scrub myth. If you want to use an example use a less moronic one next time. I could go on to say that you're an idiot for getting he was calling casual players scrubs from his post but hey. The majority of the people posting in the thread he was referring to would qualify as scrubs. You were rather scrubby yourself for quite awhile but admitted that the game is more broken than you realized so you're coming out of your scrubdom soon you might awaken to the real world. Of course you're in IT so don't see that happening.

1trueking, is that portland OR? dude, we should hook up this weekend. I live just across the river, man.

Ok, king, enough already my posts are as logical as yours, i'm simply out numbered, i don't care anymore.

One thing, that i want to say though, i won't insult you or anything, just on a girl note and money note.I never said i was "poor", i said i wasn't the wealthiest guy on earth, and trust me even though you think i know nothing and such i know more than you think.

Lets just say where i'm from the girls are not so nice, trust me, this i know for a FACT.If you wish i can and will get everyone that i know on this site from my area to back me up.It has nothing to do with my attitude, if anything i'm too nice to them possibly, don't know don't care.The time will come for that.I'd rather concentrate on my dream job and how to get it.

And i know you don't have xbox live, but seriously one thing i'm sure i have more than every guy on this site and most guys in general is that i have a killer voice.Meaning very, very deep.And no i'm not african or korean.Don't know why, but everyone asks me if i'm one of the two once they here me talk lol.I'm neither.

I wish not to argue or fight with you anymore, do you accept?


Now, Raylokka i have a question for you, please tell me that you heard of a second Psi-Ops game coming sometime.The first game was great, very under rated IMO and was beyond fun to play.The ending kind of left it hanging though, but it's good.Can't wait to see the movie.