people r taking this seriously this is just a game people!petitions ranting dont get the game nice and simple

I partially agree with that. There is no comparison to make between the 2d games and Soul Calibur because they are vastly different. I was referring to the current crop of Mortal Kombat games i.e. Deadly Alliance onward. If you try and compare Soul Calibur games to modern Mortal Kombat games, without even getting into the fighting mechanics, just comparing the detail on the character models, the extra added stuff just to please fans... Mortal Kombat doesn't even come close.

Ohh yeah I agree with that, however not the case with this generation MK 8 look amazing with the details as far as I'm concerned, real damage is great. So much better then the previous 3 MK's graphically and most likely gameplay wise as well from what I'm seeing. SC 4 and SF4 look nice but MK8 IMO looks just wicked cool with the realism, close up shots, bruising, damage etc. Shit's "unreal" pun intended ha, ha. I just hate these dumb people that say shit like MK is lazy blah, blah because if that's the case then I guess that can be said about every fighting game developer. Why no realistic damage til MK8 in general? Why has Namco been the LAST to go online til of late? ....I'd love to hear the Namco fanboys explain that to me since they think their games are "so perfect".... I don't believe Midway's lazy, they just 'rush' at times big difference.



You're kidding right? no, more like MK:DA, MK4 disappointed and was horrible compared to most MK games. Even most fans feel this way. MK:SM easily a great game, MKM, UMK3, MK2 etc hell even MKA wasn't as bad as some people made it out to be and is still better then MK4. I don't 'hate" any MK game but still the facts speak for themselves. MK4 was factually one of the worst MK fighting games ever made easily....as much as I hate to say it. My explaination was said, I'd like to hear yours on why you think MK4 of all MK's "was the last best MK game".....

it may be a 2-D game but it looks awesome

mkflegend wrote:

"Tekken only partially is realistic, in video game terms there's always "some made up things" such as the dude that teleports for example and since when do sparks come out of peoples faces as oppose to blood or brusing? I'd love to hear that justified..."

Are you seriously asking to have that justified? This is a game. Although I would like for them not to have the sparks and cosmetic moves either, so it would feel more real.

"It's like I always say, MK might have exaggerated blood but at least their concept is realistic..."

One would think that a "professional" gamedev team such as that which the mk team should be would be able to at least put a little bit of research into how the body reacts to cuts, stabs and bludgeonings, and to what degree. Instead their main selling point of the game, the "violence" comes out looking very bad and unrealistic. Which sort of defeats the purpose of having blood(since it looks like freaking popcorn and appears to come from no where) and gore in the game.

I'm not asking for a death simulator, but if you end up pulling off peoples heads with their spinal cord attached with your bare hands, or uppercutting multiple heads off a person or having a body turn into chunks instead off showing real vital organs, well then, you can't really say their concept is realistic now can you?




As for gameplay and why games like Virtua Fighter and Tekken are better than the more recent MK's, I'm gonna go back to something along the lines of what danadab said in another thread, and that is "it's not that the mortal kombat team doesn't test their games, it's that they don't know how to". So while I don't have a thorough understanding of how or why certain systems of a fighting mechanic make a game balanced (such as high, mid, low attacks, throw escapes, frame advantage, blockable string combos etc.), I think I have a basic understanding of the philosophy of what makes a good system. And that is, analyzing everything from every angle possible to retain that balance.

Since, I came up with this philosophy mostly on my own, (albeit with some outside influence) I asked myself the question why can't the MK team come up with a balanced game? The answer to this question is based on discovery. Somewhere along the lines of dev teams making fighting games someone/some people discovered and it dawned on them that a certain situation during a fight created a problem within the system and led to imbalance. So most likely (and someone correct me if I'm wrong here) people throughout the development of fighting games have compiled a technical blueprint of what a good fighting system should contain. While most likely other "blueprints" also exist, since some games feature certain game mechanics that others don't. Besides this, certain members on this board provide evidence of what is wrong and what is missing from the new MK's. I trust them because of this and because they speak in a clear and comprehensive manner.

So if you cant see why other fighting games are better and more robust than MK in terms of gameplay mkf, then I really don't know what else to tell you.

Forgot to add that the mk team probably hasn't made any of these discoveries by themselves so this is why alot of their games end up broken since they haven't been following the formula aka the "blueprints".

I'd like anyone who thinks that's the issue to explain that.

Are you kidding? lol Tekken and VF aren't so perfect as you think....granted they're superior as far as "3D fighters are concerned" but that's not saying much, they've always been 3D games. And just so you know Tekken 5 etc has had some infinites and I believe has a corner infinite and one version has a rigged/broken character just like MOST fighting games do within sometime of their series.....you obviously are ignorant to the fact that MK has great gameplay in MK games prior to the previous two. You can't judge MK's gameplay based soley off 3 or 2 games, that's just stupid. Like I said before, Tekken is the same shit over and over...boring, and they got everything from VF anyway so if anything you guys should be bragging about VF before Tekken, Namco just took what VF had and implemented it with the Tekken badge....at least MK, SF, KI etc are unique and different. But again, you can't judge MK overall based off a few games of late.

That's like judging the corvette off the C4 and C5 models, yet completely ignore the C6, C1, C2 and C3.....it's just dumb and will prove to be ignorant sicne you're judging based of a few of the latest models....yet everyone knows that the Vette is one of the best if not the best American made sports cars ever.

And again, you're wrong if you think Midway has never made a balanced MK game. Again, have you ever played MK2, UMK3, MK4 or even MK:DA? Yes, there's of course top tiers but that's in ALL fighting games. Top tiers, mids and lows....

I have a good idea of what a good fighting game is, especially since I not only understand gameplay mechanics well but actually play online competitively ALL MK's that are online I've played, thus why I know which MK's work online as oppose to not.

The MK team knows how to test their games, that's BS they just rush...because if they didn't know how then we would never get ANY good MK games. And clearly we have over the years, MK, MK2, UMK3, MK:DA need I say more? Not counting MK:SM and MKM obvious since they're side games but they're also good, where as oppose to Tekkens horrible excuse for an "adventure game" and "tekken bowling"? what's that about? Not to mention Namco looked silly until a year ago or so when they were so reluctant to go online, thus expand competition for players but knew they had to because for one, Capcom, Midway, Team Ninja and Sega all went online with their fighters so Namco looked silly and behind in that department. So you see I can go thru the "flaws" of Tekken, etc as well. My point is no fighting game is perfect, and the "haters" of MK on here speak out of pure ignorance half the time. I remember when Mastermalone had to explain on here quite a few times to people why MKA was better then MKD, yet some people still don't get it.....

Granted, the previous few MK's weren't the best and aren't NEARLY as good as the older MK's but don't act as if Tekken and VF are so perfect either, both have had bad or mediocre games at times. Example, Tekken 6 isn't so great and VF 4 took lots of heat by some people I remember reading a lot about that. And need I even have to speak about SC3? I don't think I do....SF EX etc and of course Mk4 and Deception? So every fighting game/company goes thru their ups and downs. Face it, but don't act as if Midway or MK is the only game that's imperfect because they're not.

It's not the #1 issue but still an issue none the less that should have been done a while ago in general with fighters, kind of like the online thing with Namco being the last ones in the fighter market to go online with any of their games. Obviously the online is more important, but Namco was very against online play...but when they saw their comp going online, thus adding higher replay value they pretty much said "yeah...we're looking stupid if we don't go online with our games"....

True, true. BIOFreaks had some nice ideas, but turned out awful, too.

I did some digging, and apparently years ago a guy fell into a giant vat of irrelevance, and shortly afterward, mkflegend emerged. I wonder if there's a connection!

Strangely enough, the inadequacies of a Street Fighter EX, which starts with far more competent fundamentals, do not effect the sub par efforts of MK games. Nor do they help MK come up to the level of superior games with better basics, and a superior logic set, that has led to the longevity of certain systems. As opposed to MK's successes with pandering to a fanbase caught in the throws of longterm attention deficit disorder.

Perhaps you did that digging when you realized you looked into the mirror and noticed this white powder under your nose. Usually arrogance blinds people to see others point of views or the truth. I wonder if there's a connection between Mick and that story I heard! Bio freaks was fun, just not serious like Clay fighter kind of.

Actually, SF ex was rated factually WORSE then any MK game that disappointed the fanbase. It was one of the worst rated fighting games EVER, I do believe however SF the movie did worse...which is hard to believe but true sadly.

And again, just pop in a classic MK and you will be proved wrong. Denial and ignorance loves to exist when it comes to MK bashing on here....

SFEX is principally a gimped Street Fighter with ugly graphics.
Yes, this inspires the ire of SF fans everywhere, but the distinct difference between that game, and MK, is that it's still built on a basically superior platform.
Likewise, SF fans were understandably offput by the transition from individually animated movesets for a diverse range of characters, to shitty homogeny in a game built on digitized graphics.
Also, the SF: Movie game sucked, too.

When your characters are lucky to have one of a selection of kick animations that can be counted on one hand, you know you're entering an ass kicking contest with only one functioning kicking leg.


I'm drowning in irony.

When I play classic MK, I see a whole lot of the same, with lazy distractions like special moves and decapitations. Acceptable enough for the time, but even by MK3, they were starting to wear out their welcome, several years after SFII's superior design.
All bringing up "classic" MK does is buy you a little bit of room for the concessions of the time.

Bitch,you best be joking.

You want to start talking designs? Are you really sure you want to go there? Because the Street Fighter character designs are,for the most part,derivative and uninspired trash. I'll give them Bison,Chun Li,Q,Dhalsim and a couple of others,but you cannot seriously look me in the eye and say that a billion of Ryu clones (Ryu,Ken,Akuma,Sean,Dan,Shin Akuma and Evil Ryu?) are superior to a billion of multicolored ninjas. Capcom is doubly at fault considering that in 15+ years since the creation of those characters,they've made no attempts whatsoever to differentiate their designs even a little,while the MK character designers have done everything in their power to create unique looks for each one of their characters. Don't give me that garbage about "THEY STOOD THE TEST OF TIME LOL". That's fucking bullshit and you know it. It's Capcom we're talking about here. They are too goddamn lazy to do anything other than draw a different head onto a Ryu sprite,recoloring it,calling it a day and releasing another annual rehash. Other dumbfuck design ideas include,but are not limited to:
-Generic bubbly Japanese schoolgirl
-Shirtless oily muscleman in speedos
-A sumo wrestler (!) named Edmond (!!!)

Capcom is the king of rehashan. Case in point,SFIV. Which is basically nothing more than a 3D remake of SFII with a couple of new characters. Now that's what I call innovation!

Actually, for me, MK4 was great, and MKDA disappointed. Slow, clunky gameplay, combos that were infuriating to pull off and extremely dissatisfying, plastic character models, stiff animations, LAME fatalities, ultra-unrealistic blood, lame characters like Bo Rai Cho and Nitara, the abandonment of MK's core controls for a new, inconsistent control system featuring vague numbered attacks instead of punch and kick buttons and ridiculous, throw-away features like impalement meant only to please the most shallow of fans.

On the other hand, MK4 featured fast gameplay, brutal, intense combat, two throws per character, the introduction of weapons, the first 3D graphics in MK, at least two or three costumes per character, excellently done FMV endings, and cinematic fatalities unrivaled in any other MK game. The only bad thing I can bring up on MK4 is the fact that characters didn't have their own individual basic moves and combos, which really isn't that big of a loss from previous MK's. You can still deliver solid combos and kick ass with most characters. It certainly beats MKDA in which you must memorize the inconsistent, muddled mess that is their control system.

mkflegend wrote:


"Are you kidding? lol Tekken and VF aren't so perfect as you think....Tekken 5 I believe has a corner infinite and one version has a rigged/broken character just like MOST fighting games do within sometime of their series.....you obviously are ignorant to the fact that MK has great gameplay in MK games. You can't judge MK's gameplay based soley off 3 or 2 games, that's just stupid."

Did I ever say Tekken and Virtua Fighter were perfect? No. You are obviously making assumptions. Also the newer Tekken's and Virtua Fighter's have more move sets than the newer MK's so it's harder to balance them out and yes I'm talking about MKDA, MKD. Haven't played MKA yet. Although I imagine characters might not have gotten more moves per character and if they did it probably wasn't much. I know about the wake up attacks.







"That's like judging the corvette off the C4 and C5 models, yet completely ignore the C6, C1, C2 and C3.....it's just dumb and will prove to be ignorant sicne you're judging based of a few of the latest models....yet everyone knows that the Vette is one of the best if not the best American made sports cars ever."

One shouldn't compare ones past work with ones recent work. That just makes you look like all you had was the past instead of focusing on what really matters, which is your recent work. Besides the less moves you have in a fighting game, the easier it is to balance them out. Such is the case with MK!, 2, 3 and UMK3.







"And again, you're wrong if you think Midway has never made a balanced MK game. Again, have you ever played MK2, UMK3 or even MK4? Yes, there's of course top tiers but that's in ALL fighting games. Top tiers, mids and lows...."

Yes I have played all those games.









"The MK team knows how to test their games, that's BS they just rush...because if they didn't know how then we would never get ANY good MK games. And clearly we have over the years, MK, MK2, UMK3, MK:DA need I say more?"

See above as I addressed this issue. A company should not rush a game in order to meet a time limit. If this is going to happen and the gameplay is going to suffer for it then it shouldn't be made.








"Not counting MK:SM and MKM obvious since they're side games but they're also good, where as oppose to Tekkens horrible excuse for an "adventure game" and "tekken bowling"? what's that about? Not to mention Namco looked silly until a year ago or so when they were so reluctant to go online, thus expand competition for players but knew they had to because for one, Capcom, Midway, Team Ninja and Sega all went online with their fighters so Namco looked silly and behind in that department. So you see I can go thru the "flaws" of Tekken, etc as well. My point is no fighting game is perfect, and the "haters" of MK on here speak out of pure ignorance half the time. I remember when Mastermalone had to explain on here quite a few times to people why MKA was better then MKD, yet some people still don't get it....."

I'm actually not really a fan of any fighting game series as they all have things I dislike about them. Alot of what I dislike outweighing the goods actually.






"Granted, the previous few MK's weren't the best and aren't NEARLY as good as the older MK's but don't act as if Tekken and VF are so perfect either, both have had bad or mediocre games at times. Example, Tekken 6 isn't so great and VF 4 took lots of heat by some people I remember reading a lot about that. And need I even have to speak about SC3? I don't think I do....SF EX etc and of course Mk4 and Deception? So every fighting game/company goes thru their ups and downs. Face it, but don't act as if Midway or MK is the only game that's imperfect because they're not."

Again I never said that.

Also I was wondering why you never addressed my question of "you can't really say their concept is realistic now can you? when i was saying how I though mk looks fake.

What about when I asked this question "Are you seriously asking to have that justified?", when you made this statement, "Tekken only partially is realistic, in video game terms there's always "some made up things" such as the dude that teleports for example and since when do sparks come out of peoples faces as oppose to blood or brusing? I'd love to hear that justified..."

Actually, I was talking about the design of the fight mechanics, and each character's movesets, but now I've got to ask you if you're joking.

It almost sounds like you're accusing Street Fighter of being more derivative than Mortal Kombat, which, of course, can't be the case, because you'd have to be ignorant to the existence of ASIA.

The distinct difference between Street Fighter's use of palette swaps and MK's is that there's usually a stronger motivation for that similarity, and a more artful application of it.
I'm one of those Street Fighter fans that isn't really a fan of SFIII, but even I'd have trouble claiming they haven't differentiated amongst their own cast. I mean, they match MK's super distinct methods of changing costume colours, so you'd have to think some of the individualized fight trends, and the fact that they are actually identifiable as individuals by face recognition, you've got to think it's gravy.

The latter parts of your argument, not surprisingly, seem to be completely disconnected from conventional wisdom of design, and MK's own penchant for pop culture reference.
The big difference, particular through the more admirable efforts of the SFII and Alpha casts, is that Street Fighter managed to remain very much in touch with it's own asthetic. The biggest complaint fans have about SFIII, and even some of what we've seen from four, is the loss of context. [The SFIV cast] might not be quite as patchworked as MK's bredth of sci-fi, comic book, mythology, and martial arts references, but it's a little disappointing.

I'd argue Tekken and SF have both started to lose their way in recent iterations, but I think we already established that those failings, which are built on better fundamentals, do not bring those games down to MK.

Character design isn't really implicitly the subject here, but it gets a bit hard to seperate the failings when you compare MK fight styles to those of Street Fighter, or Tekken, where the a fuller image of characters is cast.


Me am your #1 fan!!!

Calling the MK team lazy is somewhat akin to calling a fish damp.

That's what I've been saying for a long time, but yet the majority of the "Hardcore Gamer" users here on this site just cannot get that through their minds that they're blowing steam off of a mere little game.

Lets see how many will reply to this.

Oh,I see what you did there.

hai guise ryu and ken r both martial artists so it makes sense for them to wear the same clothes,rite?

Nice try. Now look at the KOF series. It has a whole bunch of characters who,just like Ryu and Ken,study the same martial art (Kyokugenryuu Karate),in the same dojo,under the tutelage of the same master. Unlike Ryu and Ken,these characters don't look,fight or act remotely alike. And even when their outfits do look similar,SNK does everything possible to differentiate them and at least provide them with different animations.

Meanwhile,Capcom goes "FUCK THAT,let's do some rehashan! There's American Ryu,there's gangsta black Ryu,there's joke Ryu,there's evil Ryu (BLACK = DEEP guise). There's enough Ryu for everybody!"

HEADSWAPS = ART

I'll take your word for it,old chum.

Thanks for reminding me of the SFIII fiasco,BTW. Time for our daily segment "Were You Aware?"

Were You Aware?

...That SFIII was supposed to have eliminated all of the old characters and start a brand new storyline with a brand new protagonist (Alex)? But no,legions of butthurt fans went "BAWWWWW BUT WHAT ABOUT OUR PRECIOS SHOTO BOYS BAWWWW." They bitched and cried,and moaned,and whined until Capcom put Ryu,Ken and Akuma back in,and then tossed in another Ryu clone,Sean,so they wouldn't feel lonely. ;_; And the fans rejoiced,and it was good,because innovation = Satan.

Okay,I'll give you that one.

Rain was probably one palette swap too many.

Overused generic martial arts gi ~ overused generic mysterious assassin garb.
One is in no way better than the other.

Holy shit,Street Fighter has an aesthetic? O_O

The game with sumo wrestlers,bubbly schoolgirls,stretchy Indian yogas,gangsta rappers,gentlemanly British boxers and escaped genetic experiments has an aesthetic?

What are you smoking and where can I get some?

Tekken is a joke. Plain and simple.

Fight styles? Elaborate,because I was under the impressions that we were talking about art design in general,gameplay nonwithstanding.

Also,fuller image of characters? The hell does that even mean?

Gee,it sure is TROLLAN around here!

Seriously,though,at least they try to introduce something new once in a while instead of rehashing the same shit year after year.
In b4 MKA.

Ok, np everyones entitled to their opinion. I liked MK4 but there was no near to no comp compared to MK2, UMK3 or even the newer MK's and the combos were all shared so that kind of dulled the characters a bit(with the dial ups I mean) I liked a lot of the fatalities in MK:DA, at first compared to MK4(which was way too fast IMO) MK:DA feels slow but I got used to it, could have been faster but still I was fine with the way the overall game was done. Good gameplay, nice sidestepping(better then MKD and MKA) and some interesting newer characters introduced. Konquest was introduced and the Test your Might brought back some cool memories.

The impale I could have lived without but Midway obviously listened since the impale is gone now and has been. It's a new concept they toyed with, some people liked it others didn't. I have no problem with the punches etc, compared to MK4 MK:DA was so much deeper and different. Of course by the time MKA rolled around, people got tired of the engine, thus the need for change in MK8 understandably but I enjoyed MK:DA way more then MK4. MK4 I can play for hours, but after a while it will bore me before any other MK will.

Memorization isn't a huge issue to me personally, I know some players have trouble memorizing a 9 or 10 hit combo but it just takes practice.

To each his own though, personally like MK:DA more but I'll play any MK.



You know quoting is a lot easier right? anywho...

Point is some people act as if Midway never made a great MK game and that's just horsepoop. lol BTW you forgot MK4, that game(although hated) was also pretty well done balance wise compared to the recent MK's anyway. I know you never said Tekken and VF are perfect, but the way some people act on here they imply it....all I'm saying. It just sounded like you were really ripping into MK that's why I posted that stuff about every series, better and worse games.

If you haven't played MKA then you don't know the game whole obviously but you're right about the wake ups but actually some characters have more specials then MKD/MK:DA. If you have some time to kill sometime, rent it and you'll see what I mean compared to MK:DA and MKD. It's more balanced then MKD, two styles per characters instead of 3. Of course there's always the higher tiers, mids and lows. But unlike MKD where Bo, Dair and N/S owned the whole game MKA gives you more options with more characters. Still, out of the 3 3D MK's MK:DA is the most balanced easily.

I agree with you about a company not rushing, but again you'll see some ignorant fans on here blame MK team or call them "lazy or stupid" yet that's not their fault, blame Midway their superiors if anything, not the MK team. MK team is just doing their best with the time given...

Surely you and I would also have trouble if we rushed something as well.

A lot of what I see the positives outweigh the negatives, in a case like that one shouldn't be a fan of something if they're going to let the negatives outweigh the positives or never be pleased to begin with. My personal view on that. Every fighting game series struggles at times.

In the case of "not looking realistic" I can say the same about Tekken, VF or any fighter now can I? People don't look CGI ish or animeish with cell shading, but MK overall the older games looked real because they were real people digitized well. So yes, in that context it looked real. The blood as I already said was exagerrated but still at least there's "blood" and not "sparks" which are hardly realistic. I don't think MK looks any more or less fake the the other fighters.

And MK8 looks very realistic for several reasons, the details on characters, bruising that looks better then previous MK's, less blood, realistic damage. That's why it's realistic and Boon said they're going after that approach. Now not to knock SC or SF4 but there's plenty out there who hate cell shading and SC looks too CGI-animeish, perhaps it's because it's japanese I don't know but SF looks very anime while SC looks too CGI-ish IMO but honestly I would say all fighters right now look great in their own, unique way. I just explained myself answering both of your questions. I mean hell even Capcom tried it with SF the movie based off MK's idea with digitized actors, but we all know how that went down.




Dude smoking some strong stuff man? lol anyone that thinks MK's had shitty digitized graphics are either dumb or flat out in denial, and or being a hater. I mean shit...re-read what I just told eagleclaw. SF the movie game that capcom attemtped SUCKED HARD! MK did the digitized actors well, not sure what you're watching but sounds like pointless, blind hatred as far as I'm concerned. And the only thing SF and MK of old had in common was the 2D in which both succeeded so again, not sure what you're playing or talking about. The older MK's owned, nuff said.

It's hardly a lazy attempt, in fact very logical if anything...were you not around when the older MK's were one of the hottest things ever? lol The fatalities and blood were one of the key elements that made MK what it is, not to mention made perfect sense due to storyline. It's still better then a character being vulnerable to the color yellow.....can you say mega lame? lol and I like DC, I really do but that had to be one of the most stupid vulnerabilities ever. And a special move is a special move, SFII isn't as superior as you think. The game had some issues like Free hits after certain stun moves that you couldn't block...and I love it how you'll mock the ninjas yet everyone knows that Ryu and Ken are soooooooooo different...please, I guess Capcom got lazy there because at least with the ninjas everyone had umm different moves, while Ryu, Ken, Akuma and dan...yeah more or less the same character in different colored giis. Real original. You're obviously showing your bias against MK and being nothing but a hater now.

people there is nothing u can do about the game noonehere i agree with u the first time by saying ur petitions r leading to arguements about gameplay and dc i know that its not fair that dc charaters are on this game because some favorites r being knocked out of the game sorry but there is nothing that can be done now

Well if some fans are hardcore enough they could riot..

agreed

the fans need to calm down but itis not fair mk charaters replaced by dc charaters dc doesnt belong i just hope this game will have a break through
i love mk

annilation wrote:
the fans need to calm down but itis not fair mk charaters replaced by dc charaters dc doesnt belong i just hope this game will have a break through
i love mk

bs there not going to stop

it depends