GoldenSquirrelFist Wrote: Of course it will happen with Midway.Contracts will be water-tight for all future actors being digitised.There are no legal issues!

Man, is this guy great, or what? Not only does he have a positive mind, he has a positive outlook! People like this get things done! This is how things become better! People like this!
Chaos, I hope you can be positive like Golden Squirrel.

UrbanSmooth Wrote: Bezou Wrote: Considering the legal problems Midway has had with some of the digitized actors, I doubt we'll ever see that technique again. Sorry. Considering that you're a fucking dumb-ass and don't know schitt about Midway's dealings, I'm almost certain that WE WILL see this technology!

I think he was talking about the dozens of lawsuits Midway fought back in the 90's. You know, all the angry parents complaining that the game was too real? Maybe YOU should get a clue about what you are speaking of before you go around slamming other people for being a "dumb-ass".
That's all we need is another game in the media spot light for being too realisticly violent *cough* Manhunt *cough*.

As a gamer, do I truly care about negative parent or media input? Nooooo! That is why there's a rating on the game's box. If they can't handle it, then they should leave it alone!
Manhunt did not use real-life 3D actors captured into the game, so, that game does not apply here.
Remember the importance here, people! Let's all hope that MK7 and future MKs use digitized actors captured into 3D for the MK characters!

bad girl love makes an excellent point that you are too stubborn to see man...there is a huge difference in movies and games...why do you think we see better graphics in fmvs? because they are always the same...when you see an fmv it is the top of the graphics at that moment...and considering what i saw in "that movie" the graphics are close to being full human but not...if you look at tony hawk games they scan the peoples faces...but even though they do that the faces look even worse than MK...they are all blurry and messed up...so i would rather wait until other games use this feature b4 MK does because i would rather have a more cartoonish character than a blurry faced one that looked like he was allergic to air lol...also they have made the fighters taller and thinner in this game for the most part...so they look less cartoony and squatish

UrbanSmooth Wrote: As a gamer, do I truly care about negative parent or media input? Nooooo! That is why there's a rating on the game's box. If they can't handle it, then they should leave it alone! Manhunt did not use real-life 3D actors capture into the game, so, that game does not apply here. Remember the importance here, people! Let's all hope that MK7 and future MKs use digitized actors captured into 3D for the MK characters!

They were refering to the content of Manhunt, not the look.
But realism in a game like MK will get to the point where it'll be banned from being published, and then what would happen? No one could play it, so it's ironic that the talk of progress could be its down fall.

For an example of 3D digitization, check out MK4. That was GREAT.
Face it, you don't know what you're talking about. And you're too fanatical in your views to notice.

We're talking proportions here, people. Forget texture maps and that shit for the moment. Kombatants do not need to be ridiculously buff. Just kompare a current render to a any MK3 versus screen, you'll see an insane difference.

Bezou Wrote: For an example of 3D digitization, check out MK4. That was GREAT. Face it, you don't know what you're talking about. And you're too fanatical in your views to notice.

I'm talking about scanning a person's full body in, not just their face. MK4 was years ago! Years ago! The technology is much better now days. It's negative minds like yours that limit improvements from happening.
Remember the importance here, people! Let's all hope that MK7 and future MKs use digitized actors captured into 3D for the MK characters!

Does anyone know why they went from digitized to the new format? I noticed the change from MK1 to MK2, but you were always distracted by the new features to really focus on that.

molsen81 Wrote: Does anyone know why they went from digitized to the new format? I noticed the change from MK1 to MK2, but you were always distracted by the new features to really focus on that.

MK went to 3D to stay competitive with the other fighters that were going or already 3D. The technology was not there to use real-life actors in 3D. That technology is now available, or very, very close. Perhaps close enough to be in MK7! If not MK7, then hopefully future MK games!

The characters will become photo-realistic,maybe almost so in MK7.
Blurry image maps on low polygon count wireframes is always gonna look rubbish,what we see in pre-rendered sequences will be possible in realtime in a few years on pcs and consoles.(Moore's law of processor speed increases still stands according to Intel).
A different issue is the violence.Maybe the amount of blood and fatality realism will have to be reduced.
I'd be happy to have completely real looking characters as a trade off for fatalities being less graphic.The rating system for games wasn't in existence when MK1 came out,now that's in place they will cater depending on specific demographics.

As I said before there are only 2 ways to acheive real life interactive actors in 3d games:
1.Texture maps 3d wireframe models using motion capture (or traditional 3d animation techniques)
2.By using holography,as pioneered in games by Sega in the late 80's.

GoldenSquirrelFist Wrote: The characters will become photo-realistic,maybe almost so in MK7. Blurry image maps on low polygon count wireframes is always gonna look rubbish,what we see in pre-rendered sequences will be possible in realtime in a few years on pcs and consoles.(Moore's law of processor speed increases still stands according to Intel). A different issue is the violence.Maybe the amount of blood and fatality realism will have to be reduced. I'd be happy to have completely real looking characters as a trade off for fatalities being less graphic.The rating system for games wasn't in existence when MK1 came out,now that's in place they will cater depending on specific demographics.

I read that article about Moore's law, Golden! Why, just the other day, it was! They've made smaller chips that can hold more data and execute more calculations. Those chips can also conserve energy a lot more efficiently than current microchips.
Yes, hopefully there will be realistic 3D characters in MK7 and future MK games! I'm not talking about better graphics, I'm talking about digitized 3D actors!
As far as the violence and blood goes, I say keep the over-the-top feel. Do not make things less violent because the characters are real! Remember MKs 1 through Trilogy? They used digitized actors, but, they didn't lower the violence! The violence does not need to be lowered, it needs to be upped!
Fatalities need to be much more gruesome and contain a lot more REALISTIC-LOOKING internal organs! Blood needs to look like REAL BLOOD, as well as act like so! However, there can be buckets of it!
I want MK games to have a realistic-look to them WITH the over-the-top-effects! That is how the MK began! And now that technology is improving, MK's details must be improved, as well!

What are you smoking smooth? Digitized characters would look and play like crap compared to computer generated characters, especially if MK7 will be on xbox2 and PS3. What the hell, let's throw in digitized backgrounds also. BORING

UrbanSmooth Wrote: molsen81 Wrote: Does anyone know why they went from digitized to the new format? I noticed the change from MK1 to MK2, but you were always distracted by the new features to really focus on that. That would be groundbreaking. Lets hope it happens. MK went to 3D to stay competitive with the other fighters that were going or already 3D. The technology was not there to use real-life actors in 3D. That technology is now available, or very, very close. Perhaps close enough to be in MK7! If not MK7, then hopefully future MK games!

ultimateryu Wrote: What are you smoking smooth? Digitized characters would look and play like crap compared to computer generated characters, especially if MK7 will be on xbox2 and PS3. What the hell, let's throw in digitized backgrounds also. BORING

No, the backgrounds are fine. The characters are not fine! Remember when MK used REAL-LIFE ACTORS for the characters? I'm saying MK should do that, but, since MK is 3D now (yes, I like MK being 3D), the real-life digitized character actors should be 3D, as well.

Digitised 3d actors ARE computer generated characters!
The digitised part refers to the texture mapping using for example a cyber scanner,or mapping on photographs taken of the actor's body,skin hair etc onto the model.

Look, the point is, MK needs to find some way to capture real-life actors into 3D and put them in their MK games. If they can do that, they would get some big props from the videogame industry.

Let's look at this from a purely technological perspective. You would need to digitally capture the actor, *then* digitally capture their moves. It doubles the workload and despite what you think, does NOT look better than a 3D model.
Let's get back to what's important here; it won't happen.

OK, people are confused here.
I work with 3D and know a lot about making a 3D game because I studied it in collage. That's what I went to school for.
So to help you understand, first you need to understand that video game systems have a limit to what they can do.
So do computers.
The difference is speed, the less detail a 3D model has, the faster it will work or render.
Rendering is when you see the 3D model.
A low poly game model will render very fast.
A high poly photoreal model will render super slow.
it could take like 30 minutes to render only 1 frame using a photoreal model.
A low poly game model will render almost instantly.
So if you had a photoreal model in a 3D video game, the game would run so slow that it would look like it was frozen. Instead of the game running at 60 frames per second, it would run at like 1 frame per hour or it might even go slower.
So having a high polygon photoreal model like in final fantasy in a video game is impossible.
Not even the PS3 will be able to do it.
What you are talking about a real human scanned would be OK for an FMV, but for a game, it's impossible.
Also what you are talking about scanning the real person is still a 3D model that looks real.
The best they can do right now or for the PS3 is just model the characters as realistically as possible like they do for games like these.
Fight night 2004
wwf day of reckoning
The best they can do is make a 3D model that looks real, take pictures of a real person, and then use those pictures to texture the model.
For example here is a guy's head that I made.
I made the head in 3D, then I used the pictures of the real guy to texture the 3D model.
Male head 3D game model
The lines you see on the heads to the right are called the wire frame. A high poly model has a lot more a low poly model has few.
Here is an example of a photoreal 3D model. This is a high polygon model = more lines.
Female head
Wireframe of the same Female head
The more lines the wire frame has, the slower the game will run. That's why the game characters look kind of blocky and the ones in movies look smooth.
That's just the way it has to be done for things to work smoothly.
One day the game systems might be strong enough to handle a photoreal model like in the movies, but the technology is not there yet.

Bezou Wrote: Let's look at this from a purely technological perspective. You would need to digitally capture the actor, *then* digitally capture their moves. It doubles the workload and despite what you think, does NOT look better than a 3D model. Let's get back to what's important here; it won't happen.

Hm, you must work for Midway. Oh, wait, you probably don't! So, how would you even know.
Let's all hope that MK brings back the real life actors and make them 3D!

It's already possible as I said.
It'a a creative decision whether to go the realism route or not.I would prefer realistic characters.
Technically it should be more possible to acheive a realistic look on the ps3 and Xbox2 as they are meant to have more ram,faster chips etc.
Violence-wise I'd rather the violence of a Bruce Lee/Jet li/Crouching Tiger style than Zombie Holocaust/vietnam documentary style.Real fighting is not pleasant whereas film fighting is more entertaining.

GoldenSquirrelFist Wrote: It's already possible as I said. It'a a creative decision whether to go the realism route or not.I would prefer realistic characters. Technically it should be more possible to acheive a realistic look on the ps3 and Xbox2 as they are meant to have more ram,faster chips etc. Violence-wise I'd rather the violence of a Bruce Lee/Jet li/Crouching Tiger style than Zombie Holocaust/vietnam documentary style.Real fighting is not pleasant whereas film fighting is more entertaining.

I agree. As long as there are more internal organs, and they look real. Thanks for the example, Bleed. But, I'm sure there's always a way to achieve. I'm a positive individual, not a closed-mind, limited MK fanboy!

UrbanSmooth Wrote: Hm, you must work for Midway. Oh, wait, you probably don't! So, how would you even know. Let's all hope that MK brings back the real life actors and make them 3D!

You're not looking at this objectively. Forget all that positivity bullcrap for a second and face reality. It is not possible and it is not worth the effort to make it so.