I also use 3d software as part of my work.(Newtek's Lightwave since version 3)
I agree with Bleed rendering times for the fmv clips like the intro are beyond current pcs etc to do in realtime but in 4,6,10 years it will be possible to have that level of quality in the actual gameplay.But by then pre-rendered sequences will be even more advanced,particularly mapping and lighting techniques.

Alright, Bleed and Squirrel, I have a project for you two: Find a way to make it possible. Perhaps Midway will hire you, who knows.
Maybe that's a joke, maybe not. The point is, a way can be found to do this. (The way is NOT shut!)
If we have to stay up until October, let's discuss this GROUND-BREAKING future achievement!

UrbanSmooth Wrote: Let's all hope that MK brings back the real life actors and make them 3D!

Face it, no one hopes this except you, and you've been given proof from knowledgable sources that MK7 will not feature this.
And about the lawsuits, it has nothing to do with parents, it was about the fact that certain actors digitized in MK2, for example the woman who played Kitana Mileena and Jade, and other actors, sued Midway over payment or something like that. It's well documented and easy to look up. So you should care about things like that, since, if repeated, they could hinder future production of any Mortal Kombat. There, now reply to this by telling me I'm an idiot and to fuck off so we all can see you're right and we're all wrong stupid fuckheads.

I remember it was the guy who was used for Johnny cage that was suing at the time also.They had planned to go off and do their own game but it never happened.(or did it?)
Using photographs/cyberscans of actors won't really be a problem.Models sign over rights for useage as part of their contracts.
This reminds me of an interview with the Virtua Fighter creator.He talked about there originally being a plan for 5 boards Model 1 for VF1 Model 2 for VF2 etc etc up to Model 5 for VF5 which he wanted to be photorealistic.But the money dropped out of the arcade scene with the advance of better consoles and the boards went off plan after Model 3.

UrbanSmooth Wrote: I agree. As long as there are more internal organs, and they look real. Thanks for the example, Bleed. But, I'm sure there's always a way to achieve. I'm a positive individual, not a closed-mind, limited MK fanboy!

That's great to be open minded, but the thing is that you also have to be realistic, the technology is just not there yet. Or let me rephrase that, the technology is there, it's just not advanced to the point where it can be used in real time for video games.
It is still limited to still images or pre rendered movies.
They are getting closer and closer as the years pass and new technology comes out, but there is still a long way to go before what you are asking for can really be done.
They might be able to fake it on the ps3 and Xbox2. The higher polygon count making the characters smoother, higher resolution texture maps and better lighting etc. will help to make characters look very real from far away, but when you get close, the images will still be kind of blurry and you won't be able to see the pores in the skin or little things like that.
They will look pretty damn real though, probably better than Doom 3.
I remember there was a presentation for the NVIDIA
G force 4 that had real time characters that looked almost real.
I'll try to find it.

UrbanSmooth, have you play a game called Siren (in England its called Forbidden Siren) basicly i heard they use digitized actors and actress. they are in a full 3d area/background and there body look almost real. but the only thing thats disappointing about the game is the grafics, it was made about 6 months ago (i think). but at least there face react like we do (happy, scared, suprise so and so). you should check it out. its an adventure/horror genre.

Here it is, the gforce 4 demo.
From what I understand, this is in real time, like a game.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Demo movie clips
The thing is that they can make something like 1 guy or just a few things on screen look really good, but when you start adding all the extra stuff like stages, special effects more characters. All this stuff happening on screen at the same time will slow the game down, so the more stuff you have on screen, the lower the quality of the models will need to be. There is a limited amount of memory or power, so you have to balance things out to make everything fit within those boundaries.

It can't be done in video games, even with the current technology, you are being an asshole jumpin on people like that.
For the record, it CAN'T be done.
PS: Why the fuck are you acting like Midway is the the gaming holyness?

Just think about it. You'd have 18-24 actors repeating literally hundreds of movements that not only take forever to program in with each other's movements, but the production costs would probably sky rocket!
Also, what about the smoothness of the movements in the game? Let's say you want each and every one of them to react to every different attack? With all the best efforts, the game would appear jittery to some degree. And this would also effect the graphics of the game as well.
It's just too much to ask of them or anyone else right now.
GD

to my knowledge there is nothing that exsists that you can say is actually "digitized 3d," but in this case lets say consoles were able to process infinite amounts of data instantly, the closest thing they would be able to do would be to make polygon models proportionate to actual humans by scaning their bodies with an optical laser, which i believe they did for the second matrix movie for the 100 agent smith fight, and map the textures to the bodies, though i beleive the software that they created to make that scene, did it automatically. and anyway i thought that scene sucked ass, they should have just been modest and kept the trilogy closer to its predecessor and not used so much CG. but hell we dont live in dream world, so heres an idea, wish in one hand and crap in the other, see which one fills up faster.

No, I don't want any more 3D digitized real-life actors... Look the craps were MK4 and Gold...
And then, why to want realism in a game where we can launch fireballs, where we can tear away a skeleton with bare hands or tear away the head of his opponent with teeth, and where half of the characters are not human? I don't see the interest...

this the most fuckin informative thread i've read so far, keep it up fellas.

Worst thread on the planet.
-Fuj

fujingodofcrap
"Worst thread on the planet."
-Fuj
hahaha

"Mortal Kombat: Deception seems much too cartoonish. Let's all hope that MK7 brings 3D Digitized Real-Life Actors!"
No thanks. As an old school Kombatant, I really like the new trend of more cartoonish characters in MK.

I think that other than the flame baiting, this guy is right. I think moving to more of the MK style graphics & being less cartoony is a good idea.
This is the natural progression of games - to have better graphics.
Any talk of Midways' legal suits.... please. Those are frivolous lawsuits. AND, during the period which had Midway getting slammed by parents & whatever lawsuits were directed at them, they were making more than enough to have a 3 man legal team. Those games were extremely popular. Plus, you have no proof that there have been lawsuits & that Midway suffered as a result. Legal fees are sometimes put on Plaintiffs who bring frivolous lawsuits.

Let's review here:
3D Digitization
Technology for doing this = non-existant
Workload required for development team = 200% to 1000%
Benefits = none
3D Modelling
Technology for doing this = second generation heading into third
Workload required for development team = 100%
Benefits = Motion capture is the only need for martial artists in the development team, the technology is improving, they already know how to do it.
Hmmm, I wonder which one they'll do.

UrbanSmooth Wrote: Computers will never be able to generate the way a human looks 100%.

They sure as hell did in Star Wars Episode 2. *points to Jango clones*

You know, I should have titled this thread:

Mortal Kombat 4, Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance, and Mortal Kombat: Deception ARE TOO CARTOONISH!

Notice, I didn't say that Mortal Kombat 1, Mortal Kombat II, Mortal Kombat 3, Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3, or Mortal Kombat Trilogy were.
You know why? Because they use real-life actors in which they capture into the game. MK1 through MKT were awesome, graphically. I believe the graphics in those past MK games (MK1 - MKT) are better than the pathetic 3D cartoonishness of MK4-MK:D.
However, I will give MK:D some credit. They are trying to move foward. Midway said themselves that they are trying to make the characters look more real. And, they should! Like someone said above, video games should always be moving foward in technology.
We've seen real-life actors in the Mortal Kombat game series already, so, we all know that it's possible. Sweet fancy Moses, the technology was in Mortal Kombat! The very first MK game! Way back in 1992!
It is now 12 years later, and by the time MK7 comes out in next-generation Consoles, it will have been 14 years after MK1. We all know that this technology IS POSSIBLE!
The thing is, will Midway grow the gonads to use it?

Possible? probably... Crappy? No doubt...
Mortal Kombat 1-Trilogy graphics were great, but now they are outdated for new gen systems...
To reuse digitized actors would be a big jump jump at back, and Mortal Kombat could never hold the comparison with the other fighting games... And personally, I don't absolutely see in what MKDA and MKD graphics are cartoonish (for MK4, the word that it was necessary employee is "ridiculous", but well)

I see what you are sayin Urban, you want mk1-mkt stlye charaters, but moving in a 3d enviroment ala mkda, mkd. I don't know if thats possible right now, but I would also love that if possible.

hmmm... Well... we have been changing and evolving ever since MK1.. I think they shoulg try something cool in MK7...
I agree they should look more realistic.. in DA the look Tekkenish... I think instead of doing the bruising and all that they should focus on making character look more credible...
I don't mind Cartoonish characters... but in Da they kind of looked like clay dolls...

UrbanSmooth Wrote: I have no problem with the backgrounds! It is the characters that must be digitized 3D real-life actors! I'm just talking about the MK characters here! I'm not talking about console graphics! I'm talking about how much better MK is with real-life characters! And since it is the future, it is time for real-life 3D characters! FUCK YOU, bag_girl_love! You're a FUCKING MK fangirl!

fuck real life characters i dont pay for real life mate i have to live with it all the goddamn time and its enough for me !
but seriously mate shut up . yeah you open a topic to get people oppinions on something yeah and then wjen one disagrees with you you get all fucked over it and insult them for haveing a diffrent point of view. whats you fucking problem ? and i seriously think that digitized real life characters only works on the 2d style .. i have the feeling that if you tried to put them on a 3d background it wouldnt work ..
personnaly i like the graphics the way they are .. what you dont watch carttons or something ? have you ever watched cartoons ? and please dont say you havnt becuase if you do i suggest that you catch up on some seriously everyone should watch cartoons .. they unlike you are happy things ...

Digitized actors will look incredibly cheesy in a 3D MK. Hell, digitized actors looked cheesy in 2D MKs. Real life just doesn't translate well into the video game world.

and who the fuck goes around in real life tearing someoines head off with his hands ... maybeee this guys just a nut case and likes to see this type of thing done to real people . even though as so many people have proved to this fanatical nut case that it cannot be done becuase the game would not run or that it would look absolutly shit !
and anyway who want real life .. ? i dont .. if i wanted real life i would have bought something that was a much harsher version of the sims .. the game would be depressing and annoying and you would be going insane after a extended period of play .