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SkeletonofSociety
10/20/2004 01:53 AM (UTC)
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kingjolly Wrote:
SkeletonofSociety Wrote:
Well since everyone is putting in their two cents, I guess I will too:
1. He is dead on balls accurate about the fighting system. It's just not that good.
2. Frank from Fightersgeneration has always made it obvious that he doesn't care too much for the MK series. He does on the otherhand love SNK's King of Fighters games and Street Fighter(So he does have good taste in games).
3. So what if he's harsh? If what he said really affects your opinion on the game then that's your problem.
4. Obviously people here are going to have an uproar over this. But let's face facts people; Mortal Kobat isn't exactly top tier gaming. Hell it's barely second tier gaming. So when he say's it good for a "casual game" he isn't far off.
5. The way he describes the Konquest mode was the same way I laughed about it. The VO in MKD is laughably bad, but of course I'd find that funny just look at my avatar and sig combo (those who'll catch the reference).
6. The score. Yes it's harsh. Yes I feel it was a little too low (I'd have given it a 6), but he bases it mostly around the figting engine, which is pretty piss poor.

Yeah but you forgot to include how he called boon and midway morons and idiots, i think that was just completely rude and ignorant. Things hesaid in terms of story are just complety false. Though liu kang returns in the game he didnt even mention that he returns in the form of a zombie and ghost. Also he didnt even include some of the interesting stuff of MkD such as breakers and online play. This review is bias.

Well of course it's biased, it's the internet......................
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wrestlingmann
10/20/2004 01:55 AM (UTC)
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This guy looks more like a Street Fighter fanboy than a full on fighter fan.
Come one even if he didnt like the game it deserves more than a 4, at least a 7 or 8.
Unbiased i think not.
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kingjolly
10/20/2004 01:56 AM (UTC)
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true.
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reptile88
10/20/2004 02:04 AM (UTC)
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oh sure,this ignorant knows too much about MK "Baraka was killed in MK4"....sure kid,you know a lot about MK....well,when i don't know about something i better shut up,but this ignorant in that website...oh my....
fear the Noob....
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NinjaHellSpawn
10/20/2004 02:23 AM (UTC)
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I read the first like paragraph and realized he's an idiot. Quan Chi and Shung Tsung sure did come back eh? NO. Same thing with Lui Kang... he's a selectable character? No, he's a hidden one (and theres a storyline explaining he's actually a zombie, which may sound corny to people who don't play this type of game but it definatly works for the game). So yeah, if you're gunna bash the game don't just make up reasons. I bet they didn't even play it yet, maybe just saw a few videos online and wrote a review.
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RasAlGhul
10/20/2004 02:29 AM (UTC)
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what is so bad about MK:Deception gameplay?
Soul Calibur sucks compared to MKD because there is no fireballs, and not as much fighters. In what does the SC2 gameplay is deaper then the MKD gameplay? there is less moves in SC2 then in MKD... no deathtrap, no fatalities, the list goes on and on. In SC2 and Tekken a button masher can win any fight, not in MKD...
Street Fighter however as much as I hate the game is like MK in that aspect, it takes skills to be a top player, not just going crazy with the controller.
MK is a game for skillful players, Soul Calibur is a game for kids IMO.
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VeinZ
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About Me

And into the eyes of the jackyl I say KAAAAAAAAAAABOOM

10/20/2004 02:42 AM (UTC)
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Well, I could have done without puzzle fighter, so he's right about that in my opinion anyway. But I love MKs character designs, always have. I think most agree with me that the new characters in this game are some of the most well designed characters ever, and I've heard time and time again how many agree that this is the best lineup in the MK series. Best line up in the series, even without Reptile? Sektor? Kitana? Rain? Some of the characters people have been begging to see again, and yet, it's still called the best line up by those same people.
I am a fighting fan. I like all fighting games. I like Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter (though not big on 4), DOA, Tekken, hell I even picked up a Saturn recently, and I will be getting Street Fighter: The Movie for it. THAT'S RIGHT STREET FIGHTER THE MOVIE! I am a fighting fan, and I enjoy Mortal Kombat. It's not the best fighter out there, but it's my favorite.
This guy doesn't enjoy it, but he does mention that it can still be entertaining, which, considering his opinion of the game means a lot. What really matters is that we enjoy it. I mean, just take his opinion for what it is, an opinion. If he told you that he didn't like sex, would that change your tune about it? Likely not. You'd be like, hey man your loss, and that's exactly what it is.
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SonOf100Maniacs
10/20/2004 02:44 AM (UTC)
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RasAlGhul Wrote:
what is so bad about MK:Deception gameplay?
Soul Calibur sucks compared to MKD because there is no fireballs, and not as much fighters. In what does the SC2 gameplay is deaper then the MKD gameplay? there is less moves in SC2 then in MKD... no deathtrap, no fatalities, the list goes on and on. In SC2 and Tekken a button masher can win any fight, not in MKD...
Street Fighter however as much as I hate the game is like MK in that aspect, it takes skills to be a top player, not just going crazy with the controller.
MK is a game for skillful players, Soul Calibur is a game for kids IMO.

and everybody knows fireballs, fatalities, and death traps are what makes a fighting game deep. put a button masher against a skilled fighter in soul calibur 2 and the skilled fighter will win. im sorry but your arguments of why mkd is deeper are pretty sad. the amount of characters and the amount of moves does not make a fighting game deep (let alone fireballs, fatalities and death traps). but there are more moves per character in soul calibur 2 than there is in mkd so i dont see why you said mkd had more moves. im not saying mkd sucks (it doesnt) and im not saying soul calibur 2 is the god of fighting games (it isnt), im just saying that if you are going to come up with reasons why mkd is the deeper fighting game then provide better arguments than that.
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DarkCarnival17
10/20/2004 02:53 AM (UTC)
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yea no botton tappers are beating a skilled player in MKD NO WAY! you HAVE to know how to play and to play fluently you must practice!! ALOT!
that guy can eat a hot bowl of shit and chase it down with some of my weewee!!
he just proved he dont know shit about MK....for one thing...Raiden is immortal....MEANING HE CANT DIE!!! DUHHHH! and shang tsung cant be fucking killed....not with a huge soulnado right behind him for god sakes!
once again DUHHHH!
this story line is amazing as well...from the jump i turned the game on and watched the intro and i wont lie...when raiden stood up, and stood side by side with quan and shang...i got fucking chills up my spine!!!! i was like OMG ITS ON!
and then when raiden blew him self up and it destroyed everything!!! yet onaga was still unharmed!! i was like this in one bad MOFO!!!
so i guess its only the REAL FANS who like this game!! i mean tekkens story line is SOO WOUNDERFUL AND DEEP! i dont see how MKD could compair!! LMFAO!
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VeinZ
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About Me

And into the eyes of the jackyl I say KAAAAAAAAAAABOOM

10/20/2004 02:58 AM (UTC)
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Well, I could have done without puzzle fighter, so he's right about that in my opinion anyway. But I love MKs character designs, always have. I think most agree with me that the new characters in this game are some of the most well designed characters ever, and I've heard time and time again how many agree that this is the best lineup in the MK series. Best line up in the series, even without Reptile? Sektor? Kitana? Rain? Some of the characters people have been begging to see again, and yet, it's still called the best line up by those same people.
I am a fighting fan. I like all fighting games. I like Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter (though not big on 4), DOA, Tekken, hell I even picked up a Saturn recently, and I will be getting Street Fighter: The Movie for it. THAT'S RIGHT STREET FIGHTER THE MOVIE! I am a fighting fan, and I enjoy Mortal Kombat. It's not the best fighter out there, but it's my favorite.
This guy doesn't enjoy it, but he does mention that it can still be entertaining, which, considering his opinion of the game means a lot. What really matters is that we enjoy it. I mean, just take his opinion for what it is, an opinion. If he told you that he didn't like sex, would that change your tune about it? Likely not. You'd be like, hey man your loss, and that's exactly what it is.
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RasAlGhul
10/20/2004 02:59 AM (UTC)
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there is 3 fighting styles in MKD... this time unlike in MKDA all those styles are useful, there is just one style per character in SC2 =less move?
Ok I've got to admit that I've played SC2 maybe like 20 times in my life, so I'm not an expert of the game, but:
- could someone explain to me WHY some people think that SC2 is a WAY deaper game then MKD is?
MKD have around 50 to 60 moves per fighter(in the 3 styles+ special moves) . How much moves are they in SC2? in Tekken4? in VF4?
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HatefulSamurai
10/20/2004 03:08 AM (UTC)
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Well if you think that depth = more fighting more, I will just stop reading your reply there.
The fighting engine of SC2 is much more fluid than MKD. There is no way that you can even argue on that. When people talk about depth in a fighting game, they are talking about the possibilites of more advance strategies and techniques. For Example Parrying in SF3. Dodging in VF4. And so on.
The number of special moves, fighting styles, and fatalities is fluff stuff.
The only "advanced" techniques (aka other than the fact that you can hit, block, and do special moves) is the dial-a-combo system and the combo breakers. Dial-a-combos systems are hated because they dont give you any freedom to come up with your own, self made combos.
Watch high level videos of VF4 players of two players both playing with Akira or any other characters. You will see two different technique. Two different style and strategies. And tons of different combos.
The problem with mk is that the combos are canned. You cannot come up with your own stuff. I could program the moves in a chip and pull the same 3 built in combos on tap. It's all a matter of memorisation. You learn the combo, and pull it off on demand. There's no real improvisation. You just tap the 1-1-3-b2-f3 combo and thats it.
Not that there is no memorisation in other "more advance fighters", but you have much more freedom. Learning combos in MKDA is no different than learning the fatality moves.
As for a game like Street Fighter, you can chain combos on your own and create your own combo sets.
Get it?
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SkeletonofSociety
10/20/2004 03:32 AM (UTC)
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RasAlGhul Wrote:
there is 3 fighting styles in MKD... this time unlike in MKDA all those styles are useful, there is just one style per character in SC2 =less move?
Ok I've got to admit that I've played SC2 maybe like 20 times in my life, so I'm not an expert of the game, but:
- could someone explain to me WHY some people think that SC2 is a WAY deaper game then MKD is?
MKD have around 50 to 60 moves per fighter(in the 3 styles+ special moves) . How much moves are they in SC2? in Tekken4? in VF4?

Well I can't speak for the SC story, but the gameplay is much better ifn SC IMO and here's why:
-One can link a nice fluid combo in Soul Calibur.
- The fighting it'self is very fluid.
-Big combos can be stopped.
- The fighting isn't totally ballanced, but the learning curve for oves isn't that steep.
-MK's fighting style is very jerky.
- Even if a combo is "dialed in" correcting it doesn't always register.
- Every so often a certain move will cause a charecter to freeze up, leaving them open for a 15 hit combo from the AI.
- Once the 3 breakers are gone, a single pop-up attack could lose you the fight.
-The breakers break up the pace of a fight by launching an opponent too far away.
-Boss battles arn't just hard, they are rediculously hard. Onaga for example can't be budged, yet he can easily defeat you with the same handful of moves.
-Some of the stages a a bit too claustraphobic. The Shokan Palace and the Dragon King's Lair for example: one push attack can win the fight.
There's also the difference between good AI and cheap AI. MK is known for the cheap AI, as is Street Fighter (I think we all hated how charge attacks didn't need to be charged for the AI in SF). MK's est example of cheap AI was in the form of Mileena in MK2. If you stood still she did her sai attack. If you walked foward she did her teleport kick. If you blocked high she did her roll attack. If you blocked low she kicked you. If you attepmted a teleport attack she blocked and the uppercuted. Onaga is almost as bad. If you walk he does his ground shake. If you jump it's a fireball attack. If you perform a breaker he does even a bigger combo. If you start the round near the edge he'll do his fireball to knock you into the spikes. And so on and so on.
Now I'm not saying I don't like MKD (As a matter of fact I'm really liking it). I even shelled out and extra $20 for the useless strategy guide and deluxe box. But I'm not blind enough to not see that it''s still inferior to a dozen other fighters. Now this doesn't make it a bad game, but it's gameplay is quite lacking. The storyline is pretty cool if you follow it closly (which it's obvious Frank from Fightersgeneration doesn't do), but a story doesn't make the game. It's the gameplay.
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SkeletonofSociety
10/20/2004 03:35 AM (UTC)
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HatefulSamurai Wrote:
Well if you think that depth = more fighting more, I will just stop reading your reply there.
The fighting engine of SC2 is much more fluid than MKD. There is no way that you can even argue on that. When people talk about depth in a fighting game, they are talking about the possibilites of more advance strategies and techniques. For Example Parrying in SF3. Dodging in VF4. And so on.
The number of special moves, fighting styles, and fatalities is fluff stuff.
The only "advanced" techniques (aka other than the fact that you can hit, block, and do special moves) is the dial-a-combo system and the combo breakers. Dial-a-combos systems are hated because they dont give you any freedom to come up with your own, self made combos.
Watch high level videos of VF4 players of two players both playing with Akira or any other characters. You will see two different technique. Two different style and strategies. And tons of different combos.
The problem with mk is that the combos are canned. You cannot come up with your own stuff. I could program the moves in a chip and pull the same 3 built in combos on tap. It's all a matter of memorisation. You learn the combo, and pull it off on demand. There's no real improvisation. You just tap the 1-1-3-b2-f3 combo and thats it.
Not that there is no memorisation in other "more advance fighters", but you have much more freedom. Learning combos in MKDA is no different than learning the fatality moves.
As for a game like Street Fighter, you can chain combos on your own and create your own combo sets.
Get it?

Tag on everything he said to mine, or everything I said to hisgrin
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mMmBeefy
10/20/2004 03:36 AM (UTC)
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1 Thing that makes mk so much better for me is the characters.
I like even the shittiest mk fighters more then say tekken, or vfs chars.
Ppl are quick to bash the mk fighting engine, but i like it. does vf have 3 styles, and a weapon stance? no. they can have all the different variations of a right hook they want, but with what 6? boring characters i dont care if they have unlimited possabilities Mk gets my vote any day.
Not to mention the blood guts n glory. Does any other fighter have 48 ways to kill your opponent? Definately not. Weather you like to believe it or not mk has came a hell of a long way, and its just gonna keep getting better.
And as far as stories go, in my opinion mk has a far better one then any of the other fighters.
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HatefulSamurai
10/20/2004 03:52 AM (UTC)
0
This is exactly with that kind of thinking that makes mk a joke in fighting game circle. I dont know why most mk fans are always saying I DONT THINK TAHT VF HAS DECAPITATIONS OR HARI KIRIS!
Dont you think that the game would be better if the fighting engine was up to vf4? It would complete the overage package much more
Sadly, MK is pretty much more style over substance. No that its a good thing, but i dont see myself still playing it in 3-4 months
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you_suck
10/20/2004 04:10 AM (UTC)
0
1) I don't care what people think of a game that I like. I like it. If you don't, please go play another game. And also, shove your own opinions down your throat.
2) MKD is lacking in gameplay. Wow. Who cares? Video games are supposed to be FUN, not a life-changing experience.
3) I own both MKD and SC and enjoy both, but I just like MKD better. SC might have a great gameplay system (which it really, truly does), but the rest of the game is pretty much boring. The characters (except for a few interesting ones, like Ivy, Necrid, Nightmare, etc.) are all but identical, and it has almost no storyline (as far as I can percieve).
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RasAlGhul
10/20/2004 05:22 AM (UTC)
0
HatefulSamurai Wrote:
Well if you think that depth = more fighting more, I will just stop reading your reply there.
The fighting engine of SC2 is much more fluid than MKD. There is no way that you can even argue on that. When people talk about depth in a fighting game, they are talking about the possibilites of more advance strategies and techniques. For Example Parrying in SF3. Dodging in VF4. And so on.
The number of special moves, fighting styles, and fatalities is fluff stuff.
The only "advanced" techniques (aka other than the fact that you can hit, block, and do special moves) is the dial-a-combo system and the combo breakers. Dial-a-combos systems are hated because they dont give you any freedom to come up with your own, self made combos.
Watch high level videos of VF4 players of two players both playing with Akira or any other characters. You will see two different technique. Two different style and strategies. And tons of different combos.
The problem with mk is that the combos are canned. You cannot come up with your own stuff. I could program the moves in a chip and pull the same 3 built in combos on tap. It's all a matter of memorisation. You learn the combo, and pull it off on demand. There's no real improvisation. You just tap the 1-1-3-b2-f3 combo and thats it.
Not that there is no memorisation in other "more advance fighters", but you have much more freedom. Learning combos in MKDA is no different than learning the fatality moves.
As for a game like Street Fighter, you can chain combos on your own and create your own combo sets.
Get it?

ok I understand a bit better, thanks for the explanation but I think that MKD allows some freedom in the combos, particularly with juggle combos, for example:
I can do Scorpion's hapkido tryangle, x and up+circle combo and after I can either:
- do another kick, and chain a 3 hit combo
-change my fighting style, and do a combo in his other style
- use a special move(hell fire, flip kick)
- send my opponent near a death trap
etc
there is freedom of movement in MKD, not as much as in SC2, maybe, but there is still some
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eLeOs
10/20/2004 05:51 AM (UTC)
0
Well he belive that what ya care now ??? he dont like mk and he sayed
1st Characters make the game great
2 Sound
3 Gameplay
4 Special / moves fatality
5 graphic
All these make me like mk but i dont think Deception was pretty good.
game must have balance :perfect gameplay perfect sound perfect chars perf all to say this is perfect game
for me Deception has :perfect characters 10/10 Sound hmmm they make nice work but remember mkt sounds this game without graphic rox
hardly . if you play in dead pool and some other maps sound is for sleeping .About characters sounds 7/10 i think .
About gameplay hmmmmmmmm they make nice work
i think Mk must not be realistic cause its a fantasy game MK must be FAST like hell big crazy combos and midway going to make MK like tekken slow than turtle Still mkt had better gameplay
now special was nice they did add something new all the same
.Grafics same as Mkda = 6/10
if they dont work for hide liu kang place and puzzle and chest
and work only for combat they can make nice game
but i wait better game :(((
AND i think sub-zero its 20% of mk why they add him only vision and all its the same they kick him :((( i was fan of sub but i played him many hours in da how can i play him to???
Thanks all gl
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DarkCarnival17
10/20/2004 05:52 AM (UTC)
0
lol how goofy...the only reason SC2 is so called more fluid! is the 8 way walk feture...MKD just has 5...but SC has no REAL special move like projectiles...and if some one does like link or spawn you get your ass stomped! i consider my self a pro at MOST fighting games and i hate to admit it...but MKD is where its at right now!! SC2 is soooo lame compaired to this game!! i mean i love SC2 but come on...you guys who are dissing it are here in a MKD forum not a SC2 forum...so i guess we know where you really stand! lol
FATALITY!
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SkeletonofSociety
10/20/2004 06:11 AM (UTC)
0
DarkCarnival17 Wrote:
lol how goofy...the only reason SC2 is so called more fluid! is the 8 way walk feture...MKD just has 5...but SC has no REAL special move like projectiles...and if some one does like link or spawn you get your ass stomped! i consider my self a pro at MOST fighting games and i hate to admit it...but MKD is where its at right now!! SC2 is soooo lame compaired to this game!! i mean i love SC2 but come on...you guys who are dissing it are here in a MKD forum not a SC2 forum...so i guess we know where you really stand! lol
FATALITY!

I don't know what was more incoherent, you or the person who posted before you.
The 8 way walk feature doesn't have anything to what anyone has stated why Soul Calibur is so fluid. It's fluid because one can come up with a combo on the fly. MKD on the other hand has pre-programmed combos. What does this mean for us gamers? If you don't follow the pattern to a combo in MKD the charecter is going to freeze up for a split second and it causes very jerky movements, almost like a virtual hiccup. With a free format combo system a player can string attacks together without having to worry about it locking up.
Projectiles are fun, don't get me wrong, but a fighting game doesn't need them. Look at Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Dead or Alive, Samurai Showdown (early versions), and Soul Calibur. All are successful series and don't impliment projectiles.
Lastly, on the subject of this being an MKD board and talking badly about the game, I can only answer that with a "So what?" It was a comparing and contrasting of different types of fighting engines to that of MKD. Not every fan of the series is going to feel the exact same way about each installment. Some of us like it, some of us don't, and some of us are indifferent. It's called having an opinion; something we are all entitled to. Sadly it's also the internet, which enables people to treat each other harshly because they have the safety net of anonymity.
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Eclipso
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The future holds nothing else but confrontation

10/20/2004 06:34 AM (UTC)
0
While it still does have issues Midway does listen and will make improvements in MK 7. I think everyones biggest issue (as well as mine) is the dial a combo. Sure you can pop up and do a few diffrent things and so on and so forth but it still is not as free as it should be. Now with this said I am still loving every minute of the game even knowing the fighting engine needs to be brought up to the level of the other games.
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KaneRobot
10/20/2004 06:49 AM (UTC)
0
I hate when retards can't get past their little hang ups and figure out whether a game is actually decent or not. This guy appears to be either a Street Fighter or DOA or KOTF or Soul Cali or Tekken fan who buys into the total bullshit of the popular "MK games suck and require no skill" internet opinion.
MK:D is one of the most loaded fighting games EVER. Don't want to fight? Play Konquest. Don't want to play Konquest? Play Chess Kombat. Don't want to play Chess Kombat? Play Puzzle Kombat. Don't want to play Puzzle Kombat because the computer keeps kicking your ass? Go online and play Kombat, Chess, OR Puzzle Kombat against another person.
The fact that the online play has the smoothest online fighting in any game to date is a huge accomplishment by itself even if the game totally sucked (which is certainly doesn't). As far as the fighting engine goes, I agree it's flawed but it's getting close to being what it should be. The three-styles concept is great, but the problem is it just doesn't flow like a Soul Calibur does. If they could make the fights move a little more gracefully and have more of a flow to them, and then fix up the A.I. problems (where it occasionally goes from mind-numbingly easy to frustratingly impossible in the span of one fight) it would be pretty much untouchable. The so-called "dial-a-combo" type doesn't bother me in the least but most people seem to be against it, so it probably wouldn't hurt to get rid of it.
The MK series has more personality than ALL of those above mentioned fighting games I mentioned. COMBINED. Seriously. Who the fuck can tell what's going on in the DOA series? Tekken is the same story over and over. When's the last time Street Fighter has had even a MODERATELY compelling storyline? 1992? Who would give a damn if Hwang or Sophitia died in the beginning cinema of the next Soul Calibur game? Next to no one.
Personality goes a long way, as Jules says.
Just another reviewer with a grudge. The review in XBN was even more annoying than that one, you could tell the writer was just some prick who doesn't like that "style" of fighting game so he trashed it and gave it a FIVE out of TEN. Games that are complete SHIT scored higher than that. Hey, I don't like the GTA games and I think they are somewhat overrated, but I'd have to be an idiot to say they aren't well done and a worthy purchase for most people. I'm not putting MK on that level as far as public consciousness goes - but it's close.
Oh well. Opinons are like assholes. Everyone has one - and some are more full of shit than others. I think that applies to our reviewing friend here.
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Pretentious
10/20/2004 06:58 AM (UTC)
0
While Deception probably isn't that great of a game, when the time comes to play it I'll probably like it just to spite Frankie since I just flat out don't like the guy. His art comes from other sites (which would be good if he actually acknowledge said sites which 90% of the time he doesn't, just ask the staff at Kikouken), his "reviews" on almost everything are asinine 98% of the time, his "facts" in bios and stuff tend to be wrong, and from what I've heard, he bitches, moans, and makes up excuses whenever he loses at a fighter (hell just read the little article about the SC2 tournament he played in where he blamed his loss on the controller). So to sum up, Frankie Yagami is a sac handler.
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eLeOs
10/20/2004 06:59 AM (UTC)
0
i am MK fan and never played Sc
i want to say game is good . waiting better game better .sound gameplay and all
Characters rox i love 60% of them characters keep me play mk
they dont change graphics really dont care about it its ok
all MK is gameplay sound characters all these .
dont like tekken or sc or wtf i like MK and i say what i see in Deception
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