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RazorsEdge701
06/13/2012 09:14 AM (UTC)
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Well I always liked Cyber-Smoke's trident because it makes me think of a grappling hook gun, which is a common weapon for tech and gadget based characters.

But the main reason I decided to stick with the kusarigama was because I really believe MK9 Smoke has way too few offensive moves, which is why everyone spams the teleport punch too much, and he needs at least one or two projectiles that do plain old damage.

(And because I don't want to give Scorpion that dumb looking UMK3 axe so this way, Smoke has it, or rather something similar to it to hit people with during combos, instead.)
Anyway, I honestly don't look at the spear and the kusarigama and see Smoke copying Scorpion, I think they look completely different and have two different potential styles of fighting.
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Immortal_Kanji
06/13/2012 02:38 PM (UTC)
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Are you working on the alternate MK2 costumes and the primaries at the same time? When will you put up Skarlet & Rain?

I wish I can see Reptile in MK9 look somehow.
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RazorsEdge701
06/13/2012 02:57 PM (UTC)
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Nah, I usually don't start the alts until all the primaries are done. I may make an exception for Kung Lao and Jax though since their MK2 alts are gonna be the same costumes they wear in my MK1 script and I do wanna finish that MK1 NPCs piece too.

I'm afraid Rain won't be drawn for quite a long time since he's an MK3 character. Skarlet should be soon though, but I gotta do Noob, Kintaro, and Shao Kahn first.

I started work on Noob a few days ago but sorta ran into a block where I couldn't get him to look quite right. Maybe I'll do some more of those MK1 NPCs and then come back to him. I dunno, the muse is fickle, that's the depressing thing about being an artist, I don't get to decide when it comes and goes.
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Immortal_Kanji
06/13/2012 07:07 PM (UTC)
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I like Stryker's new look even Kabal's. It would've been nice though for Nightwolf to participate in the 1st tournament and is in his MK2011 alternate.

For Tremor, hope he's in an earth-style look along with his ninja costumes. Bet he can be unmasked.
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Noobsmoke92
06/13/2012 07:13 PM (UTC)
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Immortal_Kanji Wrote:
I like Stryker's new look even Kabal's. It would've been nice though for Nightwolf to participate in the 1st tournament and is in his MK2011 alternate.

For Tremor, hope he's in an earth-style look along with his ninja costumes. Bet he can be unmasked.


Sorry,but Razor's version of events are close to original one,thus characters like Nightwolf,Baraka,Kitana,Jade,Cyrax,etc. don't appear in the tournament.

As for Stryker and Kabal,I am really curious what Razor has in mind,but all in due time of course. I figure Kabal's MK3 design will be similar to his MK1 NPC design,but with mask and breathing system,of course.
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RazorsEdge701
06/13/2012 08:29 PM (UTC)
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For MK3 Kabal I'm just gonna draw his Deception outfit. I thought that look was already perfect and wouldn't change a thing. I'm really not into the spikes and glowing bandolier they gave him in MK9...but I did like his alt costume. I might borrow some ideas from that for the alt I give him. Haven't decided that one yet.

MK1 Unmasked Kabal will be the same khakis and trenchcoat from MK3/Deception, just without the breathing gear and scars obviously.

Also, this will sound like a weird idea now since MK9 showed us pretty clearly what he looks like unscarred, but before MK9 ever came out, I used to think Kabal might have been Arab because he dresses like someone who lives in the desert and he was in Afghanistan when he met Kira so I always wondered if maybe that was where he's from. So I'm kinda wondering...would making him middle-eastern in my art be too different from canon or does anyone think I should go for it?
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Immortal_Kanji
06/13/2012 08:44 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
For MK3 Kabal I'm just gonna draw his Deception outfit. I thought that look was already perfect and wouldn't change a thing. I'm really not into the spikes and glowing bandolier they gave him in MK9...but I did like his alt costume. I might borrow some ideas from that for the alt I give him. Haven't decided that one yet.

MK1 Unmasked Kabal will be the same khakis and trenchcoat from MK3/Deception, just without the breathing gear and scars obviously.

Also, this will sound like a weird idea now since MK9 showed us pretty clearly what he looks like unscarred, but before MK9 ever came out, I used to think Kabal might have been Arab because he dresses like someone who lives in the desert and he was in Afghanistan when he met Kira so I always wondered if maybe that was where he's from. So I'm kinda wondering...would making him middle-eastern in my art be too different from canon or does anyone think I should go for it?


Go for how MK9 made his unmasked look look. It suits him. I do like the burns all over his body that shows sign of his true character.
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Noobsmoke92
06/13/2012 11:25 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
For MK3 Kabal I'm just gonna draw his Deception outfit. I thought that look was already perfect and wouldn't change a thing. I'm really not into the spikes and glowing bandolier they gave him in MK9...but I did like his alt costume. I might borrow some ideas from that for the alt I give him. Haven't decided that one yet.

MK1 Unmasked Kabal will be the same khakis and trenchcoat from MK3/Deception, just without the breathing gear and scars obviously.

Also, this will sound like a weird idea now since MK9 showed us pretty clearly what he looks like unscarred, but before MK9 ever came out, I used to think Kabal might have been Arab because he dresses like someone who lives in the desert and he was in Afghanistan when he met Kira so I always wondered if maybe that was where he's from. So I'm kinda wondering...would making him middle-eastern in my art be too different from canon or does anyone think I should go for it?


If you ask me,I will say go for it (although you gotta know that Afghan people are not Arabs,they are kind of mix of different nations living nearby,but I see what you are saying,Afghanistan is close to Middle East). It is not like Kabal's nationality is SO important,I mean,Liu and Kung are ESTABLISHED Chinese,while Johnny,Sonya,Stryker and Jax are Americans. Sub-Zero is half-American,half-Chinese,and Scorpion is Japanese,but with all other Earth characters it is never well established where they are from PARTICULARLY (that's why you can do whatever you want with Jarek,Kai,Mavado,Kira,etc.).So I don't think anyone will be butthurt about it,and as you said,it suits Kabal because of the way he dresses.

He might as well be Arab,who grew up in America and took this criminal way,after which Kano took him as a recruit.I don't know,I think your idea is cool,and honestly I didn't like MK9's unscarred version of Kabal. And Kabal is not his real name,I guess?
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Immortal_Kanji
06/14/2012 01:12 AM (UTC)
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Hope you'll do all costumes that are MK9 related.
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UlcaTron
06/14/2012 09:43 PM (UTC)
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I say this is your story, and your perspective has been so bad-ass so far.
Afghan Kabal FTW.
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MKKitana
06/15/2012 05:47 PM (UTC)
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Wow. I hadnt realised you had continued on with these. I wont comment on the first twelve as I did that elsewhere.

Jade and Smoke both look fucking awesome.

Smoke, I love the mask, the inclusion of long hair from his MK9 look and the use of the chain again. Also, I like how his actual ninja-garb design is somewhat more symplistic, with the detailing coming in the shoulder, wrist and shin armour. Excellent.

I pretty much despise Jade as a character and havent really liked any of her costumes since she reappeared in MKDeception. But this look is great. Again, great how you have kept the basic design simlar to Kitana and Mileena, yet used all the best parts of her recent designs (the straps, ring connecting different materials and pieces of the costume and nice hairstyle) to give her the unique Jade feel. Also I love what you did with the train/codpieces and fashioned them into a skirt. Very pleased she is masked, and I love the colour of green you have used. It is awesome. She looks pretty cute too.

NPC Cyrax and Sektor both look freaking awesome too. Excellent updates on their MK9 human design as well as adding your own flare to them. Will you be adding anyone else (Nightwolf, Kitana???) to the NPC MK1 list following MK9??

Oh, and when are you getting around to Sareena???????????? LOLwink I definitley think you should just randomly add her or just do a single Sareena fanart design lol.
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RazorsEdge701
06/15/2012 09:23 PM (UTC)
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MKKitana Wrote:
Will you be adding anyone else (Nightwolf, Kitana???) to the NPC MK1 list following MK9??


Well I already wrote out my version of MK1 in the other thread I linked to in the first post, so you can see who does and doesn't show up and why for yourself, but the full NPC cameo list is as follows:

Great Kung Lao
Bo' Rai Cho
Tundra (Kuai Liang)
Human Sektor
Grandmaster Oniro
Quan Chi and Shinnok (in silhouette only)
Kung Lao (two costumes, regular and in disguise as a Masked guard)
Jax
Hsu Hao
Kabal
Jarek
Tasia
and Tremor

Cyrax didn't actually appear in the script I wrote, but I drew him anyway to complete the set.
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MKKitana
06/16/2012 10:25 AM (UTC)
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Ahhhh I see, sorry I didnt realise it was linked to your story. Ive started reading it and will finish alter.

Loving that all the Black Dragon are included and Hsu Hao! I always thought HsuHao got an unnecessary amount of hate.
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RazorsEdge701
06/17/2012 11:26 AM (UTC)
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MKKitana Wrote:
I always thought HsuHao got an unnecessary amount of hate.


Yeah...I always thought that he had potential. His character design is pretty ugly, but he's got pro-wrestling moves and a Hulk Clap! And his backstory is honestly really good. He's been working with the Special Forces since before the first game, just imagine how much more we would've felt Jax's sense of betrayal if we'd seen it.

The only two characters I ever thought were complete wastes of roster space (y'know, other than Mokap who's meant to be a joke with no role in the story) were Dairou and Darrius, and the way to fix them is so easy it hurts: just use the concept versions of them from the Krypts: Dairou as the Anti-Kenshi, a dishonored samurai who Shang hired to guard his palace in MKDA, and Darrius as a Red Dragon member so that clan wouldn't have been left completely forgotten in Deception.

You can even keep their Deception stories. For Dairou, a dishonored samurai is the same thing as a Seidan Guard who becomes a criminal and then a mercenary. For Darrius, you could say the RD sent him to start a rebellion in Seido to destablilize/overthrow their government so the Reds could later move in and take over the realm.
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Noobsmoke92
06/17/2012 06:04 PM (UTC)
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Awesome ideas for Dairou and Darrius I gotta say. And the MOST amazing thing is you actually planning to use their Deception stories as well. At first I thought you are gonna COMPLETELY retcon their stories,but now I see.

I gotta ask though,since Kenshi is gonna face Dairou,then I suppose Dairou,not Mavado,will be the one,who injures Kenshi,am I right?
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RazorsEdge701
06/17/2012 06:51 PM (UTC)
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Yeah, it'll be Dairou who injures Kenshi.

The only reason they had Mavado do it in the games was to have Sonya find him and set up a Red Dragon/Special Forces feud but they never even followed through on that and Sub-Zero is the one who finds him instead. Besides, Jax already learns about the RD from Hsu Hao's betrayal, there's no point in that.
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Immortal_Kanji
06/18/2012 01:37 AM (UTC)
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Why not save the MK4-MKA character for the later game, that way all the characters will be revamped.
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RazorsEdge701
06/18/2012 01:48 AM (UTC)
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The point of the project is to flesh out backstories. Showing the characters more often is how you develop them and make them deeper. No one can grow and become better or more connected to the rest of the MK universe by staying off-screen.
If Hsu Hao's backstory says he worked for the Special Forces before MKDA, then I'm going to show him in scenes where the Special Forces are together before MKDA, especially if he fits the scene. His appearance in my script was in a scene where the SF are raiding a Black Dragon hideout. Well Hsu's backstory says that was his whole job, to help the SF find the BDs and put the gang out of business. So if they're gonna do that, he's gotta be there.
It's not like he's going to be fighting in the tournaments, it's just a supporting role, a glorified cameo.
If you're asking why draw the cameo characters now instead of saving them for when I get to the games where they become playable, there's lots of reasons: They'll be wearing different costumes in those games...There's no game where certain characters like the Lin Kuei grandmaster are playable, so I might as well do him now and if I'm gonna do him then I might as well do the whole set...people just plain asked me to do them so I am, etc.
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KungLaodoesntsuck
06/18/2012 02:09 AM (UTC)
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Again fantastic work Razor. I love what you did with Smoke.

And the bunny with Kung Lao was a nice touch.
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MKKitana
06/19/2012 06:34 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
MKKitana Wrote:
I always thought HsuHao got an unnecessary amount of hate.


Yeah...I always thought that he had potential. His character design is pretty ugly, but he's got pro-wrestling moves and a Hulk Clap! And his backstory is honestly really good. He's been working with the Special Forces since before the first game, just imagine how much more we would've felt Jax's sense of betrayal if we'd seen it.

The only two characters I ever thought were complete wastes of roster space (y'know, other than Mokap who's meant to be a joke with no role in the story) were Dairou and Darrius, and the way to fix them is so easy it hurts: just use the concept versions of them from the Krypts: Dairou as the Anti-Kenshi, a dishonored samurai who Shang hired to guard his palace in MKDA, and Darrius as a Red Dragon member so that clan wouldn't have been left completely forgotten in Deception.

You can even keep their Deception stories. For Dairou, a dishonored samurai is the same thing as a Seidan Guard who becomes a criminal and then a mercenary. For Darrius, you could say the RD sent him to start a rebellion in Seido to destablilize/overthrow their government so the Reds could later move in and take over the realm.


I kind of agree with you on Darrius, I dont really see much potential in him, and I would add Frost to the list of useless concepts. Really she is just a SubZero clone with breasts, and will pretty much always be that in my eyes. Also some of the original characters have died a death in my eyes too for future development (Sonya, Cage, Liu Kang, Rayden) as well as a bunch of others from later games who are stale or just copies/mishamsh/clones of others..

I think Dairou has potential. I completely agree that they should have gone with his original concept, but that can probably be worked into his story should he be given another chance and return.

Also, yeah I agree about Hsu Hao being involved in the Special Forces story as early as the first game, like you said it makes his betrayal and double-agent story all the more complex, real and interesting. But I would never have him as playable any earlier in the storyline. Also good that you used the characters from MKSF.
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RazorsEdge701
06/19/2012 06:45 PM (UTC)
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People only think of Frost in terms of her moves, but she has a great deal of value storyline-wise because she creates a sort of Obi-Wan/Darth Vader relationship where we see Sub-Zero as a teacher for the first time, to go along with his new storyline of having taken over the clan and trying to turn them into something good. The pupil goes bad and Sub-Zero has to face having failed at something. Something very important to him: Legacy.
Kuai Liang is ENTIRELY about living up to the past members of his family, keeping traditions going, or trying to change those traditions and redeem the concept of "Sub-Zeros" and "the Lin Kuei" and turn them into something proud and heroic...the most important thing in the world to him, during and after Deadly Alliance and Deception, I believe, is making sure that his legacy lives on.
And Frost is him FAILING to secure that future.
Because she is the only cryomancer other than him in the world, she was possibly the only attempt he'll ever have to pass on his ways to the next generation...unless he has a child of his own some day.
And it didn't work out because she's a complete cunt and he couldn't see that until it was too late.
That does three things: 1) It makes Frost somewhat interesting by establishing how completely different from Sub-Zero she is in personality, showing that she's not actually a total clone, she's actually in some ways the opposite of him.
2) It establishes a Sub-Zero personality trait we previously weren't aware of: Idealism. He can be too easy to hope and trust in others (and this same trait will pop up again with Sareena...although she didn't mean to betray him, Quan Chi just happens to have ways of controlling her.) He couldn't teach Frost humility because he wanted so badly to have that perfect protegé that he couldn't even see how flawed she was.
And 3) most importantly, a character who succeeds at everything and never faces loss or failure is a Mary Sue. Sub-Zero gets a LOT of big wins and power upgrades over the course of the MK storyline. Losses like Cyber-Smoke and Frost are important to keep him on the same level as everybody else psychologically.
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Immortal_Kanji
06/22/2012 07:50 PM (UTC)
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ill you be able to make the resdesigns of the costumes of MK9.

Noob Saibot - I like his reaper costume.
Liu Kang - His MK9 costume primary is suited.
Kung Lao - I like his alternate MKDA/primary MKA to be in the MK3 story.

Stryker - His costumes.... I like his costumes such as....
- MK9 primary, MKA alternate. His MKA primary, can be a part of his next storyline.

Kabal - I like his burned body of his costumes.

Nightwolf - Both MK9 costumes are awesome.

Sindel - Like both costumes.

Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang) - I'd like to see a maskless costume of his with a combination of MK3-MKDA.
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MKKitana
06/23/2012 10:48 PM (UTC)
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I see what you are saying regaring Frost, and your explainations make sense, but I guess we shall have to agree to disagree.

I pretty much see other characters fulfilling the roles, and playing the parts of, the character you see Frost as/becoming.

I think Sub Zero failing to live up to his familys heritage and past is somewhat seen through Noob Saibot. I think ideally Sub Zero would like to 'purify' the nether demon his brother has become, but its probably never going to happen. I dont feel it needs to be a cryomancer in paticular that plays this role. Sareena can also be seen somewhat as him failing, as he cannot stop her from being mind-fucked by Quan Chi. And like you said she easily plays the role that shows Sub Zero being too quick to see the good in people and being too idealistic. And you already pointed out that he has lost Smoke and (presumably if the MKA storyline for Sareena is cannon) Sareena too. So they also represent the loss aspect Sub Zero's character needs.

So basically what Im saying is why bother with Frost, when there are several other more interesting (in my opinion) characters that already fulfil the roles you require Frost to play, and having them fulfil these roles adds to both their story, and Sub Zero;'s, without it being centre stage thus allowing them to have other things going on too.

Another thing is that a potential love-story aspect with Sareena could bring about the possibility of a cryomancer heir somehwere down the line, so Frost isnt really needed to serve that role either. I think that once another cryomancer is incorporated into the story, it should be one that serves to replace Sub Zero in the long run. I cant really see Frost doing that, but again, just my opinion. Also the protege-turned bad thing could again loosley be connected to Sareena, should she stay evil, and/or could probably again be incorporated into other story arcs.

So for me, it leaves Frost with the rather dull 'I want to get my masters power' story - which she wasnt able to achieve.

Im afraid to me she will always just be a lackluster Sub Zero clone with boobs, with a fairly poor story, used to fill a space bt a lazy mk team.
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RazorsEdge701
06/24/2012 01:48 AM (UTC)
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Eh, I can't see Sareena or any other current roster member working as a student/protegé of Sub-Zero, she's too much a peer, not a subordinate or untrained rookie. And that's really the part that interested me the most about the whole thing, Sub-Zero as a teacher.
Also, if Sub-Zero had a child, that character wouldn't be old enough to become a cast member until at least 16 years after MK Armageddon.
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zerosebaz
06/26/2012 06:19 AM (UTC)
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I love your concepts and the story you are writing. It is far better than most that i've seen, if not the better. After reading all comments i just have one big question left wich is:

As we could see Bi Han as both Noob Saibot and Sub-zero during MK3, are you planning on letting Bi Han acctually regain control of himself for a brief time, as it was hinted he could in his MKA ending, or do you feel more comfortable with taking the "masked sub-zero" appearence in MK3 as non cannon?

I know it should probably be treated as non cannon, because of the almost non exsistent storyline for masked subby, as well for the lack of explanation as for why or how could he regain control. But it would be something really interesting to see. What is your take on this?
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