Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
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Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/26/2008 10:23 PM EST
Cryomancer? Necromancer?

Could it be that Subzero's power is of a magical nature. if so, that may mean the dragon medallion enhances magical power similar to The amulet.

Maybe there could be some sort of relation after all.

Sorry, I'm just thinking out loud.

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RE: Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/27/2008 06:57 AM EST
By what correspondence did you think of necromancer? Also define the difference betwen elemental and magical.

Putting aside those horrible misconceptions that video games spew out regularly.
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RE: Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/27/2008 07:03 AM EST
I believe what he's saying is that if "Necromancer" is a type of mage and the word ends with "mancer", and "Cryomancer" also ends with "mancer", then a cryomancer must also be a type of mage.

Personally, I subscribe to a sort of Unified Fictional Energy Theory, which states mana, chi, and psychic energy are all just different words and uses for the same thing - the inner power of the human soul.

Mortal Kombat would seem to agree with me, since the reason Ermac and Kenshi have psychic powers is because Ermac is made up of many souls, and Kenshi's sword is powered by his ancestors' souls. They both use soul power to gain psychic power, implying that it's all the same.

But that's neither here nor there. Just my personal opinion/theory.
To answer to the topic creator's question: yes, Sub-Zero's powers are magical in nature, but that doesn't mean he's casting spells when he uses them. It's more like the mutant powers of the X-Men. It just comes natural to him because he was born with the magic inside, and he can't teach it to other people unless they were born that way too - like Frost was.

And the way the Dragon Medallion works is it boosts the holder's special powers no matter what those powers are. Sektor wanted it too, and he doesn't even have any magic OR use chi, all his special moves are technology-based. Presumably, for him, the amulet would have somehow enhanced his cybernetics.

Shinnok's Amulet, on the other hand, does not actually improve the powers you already possess, it only gives you additional powers. It controls the four elements of Wind, Earth, Water, and Fire, contains most of the power Shinnok had when he was an Elder God, acts as the key to a network of portals hidden throughout the realms, and can somehow be used as a tool to fuse or unfuse the 6 Kamidogu into one (possibly because it's the only object in existence that contains an Elder God's powers, and the Elder Gods created the Kamidogu).
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RE: Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/27/2008 07:25 AM EST
As i recall, the Sub Zero brothers (and their antecessors), as well as Frost, are said to descend from an ancinet race native of Outworld, known as the Cryomancers. So, i assume that Sub Zero's lineage is a hybrid of Earthrealm human, and Outworld cryomancer.

Cryomancers are said to pocess the ability to control and cool down water vapor existing in the air surrounding them, water in solid or liquid state, thus being able to create solid ice objects and projectiles.

I wouldn't call Sub Zero an Elemental, as his body is not composed of ice nor water, but maybe, millenia ago, the first beings who eventually evolved into Cryomancers, were water / ice Elementals, just like Blaze is a fire Elemental.

I wouldn't call "magic" to Sub Zero's powers, as i think that for someone to actually achieve some mastery on the arts of magic, he/she must learn how to do so by means of a hard training with a master of such arts. I don't think that (at least in th MK Universe) somebody can just be born with 'magical' powers, except the Edenians, who are said to be descendants of the Elder Gods themselves.
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RE: Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/27/2008 07:35 AM EST
Many fantasy games and stories have characters who were born with the ability to tap into magic instead of having to study it.

Just as an example, the famous roleplaying game Dungeons and Dragons has both a "Sorcerer" class and a "Wizard" class for the player to choose from, and the difference between the two is that Wizards must spend their lives reading books and scrolls and memorizing magic words in order to cast their spells, while Sorcerers just somehow know how to cast them innately and never need to take the time to study.

The way this is explained is that the D&D version of sorcerers are usually the descendants of some fairly common magical creature (meaning their great grandfather was a dragon, demon, or angel who mated with a human) so the magic is just "in their blood", if you will.

Sub-Zero being descended from the Cryomancers is similar to that, I believe. Magically manipulating the element of cold is just "in his blood".
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RE: Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/28/2008 02:39 AM EST
asmodeus Wrote:
Cryomancer? Necromancer?

Could it be that Subzero's power is of a magical nature. if so, that may mean the dragon medallion enhances magical power similar to The amulet.

Maybe there could be some sort of relation after all.

Sorry, I'm just thinking out loud.


Necromancy is a big stretch bro. But I get it.

Fool around with dead things enough and you'll run into enough "cold", or be able to animate anything at your will. But that's more like a Voodoo doctor, and they're more or less magicians//wizards of many things at once. They can "teleport" or have access to portals, they can have a heightened sense about nature and so on...But like I said, that's a really big step to the left.

I much rather associated Sub-Zero & Frost with Cryomancy, and being of elemental decent.

"It's in his blood // bloodline" is a good place to start from. I always thought that there may be a water god of some sort from Edenia that influenced his heritage.

I don't believe he learned that art, I more believe that he came of age to recognize his power over that element.

Another question would be: Why is his power specific to "cold"? You can do so much with water as a whole. I mean, considering that he's a GrandMaster now...

Dew//Mist//Fog//Clouds- Rain....big and small bodies of water. Water with speed can = sharpness like a knife, darts//spikes -- or even whips....walk on water as he freezes it with his feet AND THEN all the frozen possibilities.

I just wonder sometimes.
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RE: Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/28/2008 01:10 PM EST
Especially since necromancy has nothing to do, has no conjecture to actual raising, manipulating of the dead, death, life force or whatever. It is mostly divination.

Way to thank contemporary fantasy clichés for raping terminology.
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RE: Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/28/2008 05:12 PM EST
Chrome Wrote:
Especially since necromancy has nothing to do, has no conjecture to actual raising, manipulating of the dead, death, life force or whatever. It is mostly divination.

Way to thank contemporary fantasy clichés for raping terminology.


That's wrong Chrome. In fact, divination and necromancy are practically the same thing in the context that you're proclaiming.

Fortune telling or forecasting of future events, communication, and command of dead things, or it's spirits are all necromantic qualities. It's not exclusive at all either. Human, animal, plant, and then the giant step to elemental...

All can start(albeit with conditions to specify) with something dead. Dead body, or technically inanimate object.

For instance, in the first Matrix movie, the bald kid that bends the spoon, has appeal akin necromancer. Although like I said, you gotta stretch from necromancy to call him that. Since he clarified in the movie that it was a perceptual thing...it takes him away from actually being a "technical" strict rule - necromancer. However, the Oracle in that movie is a necromancer.

It also depends on how you use the talent // skill. The same conditions are a major factor in defining the person strictly as a necromancer, or something else entirely. Voodoo doc, Magician // Mage // Wizard // Witch...ect whatever. It's "a" reason why they seem to blend together, even in definition. Cuz it depends alot.

They all have technicalities based on what they're doing, and how they get to the result they get.
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RE: Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/28/2008 05:19 PM EST
ThePredator151 Wrote:
Chrome Wrote:
Especially since necromancy has nothing to do, has no conjecture to actual raising, manipulating of the dead, death, life force or whatever. It is mostly divination.

Way to thank contemporary fantasy clichés for raping terminology.


That's wrong Chrome. In fact, divination and necromancy are practically the same thing in the context that you're proclaiming.

Fortune telling or forecasting of future events, communication, and command of dead things, or it's spirits are all necromantic qualities. It's not exclusive at all either. Human, animal, plant, and then the giant step to elemental...



Err... isn't that exactlz what I just stated?
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RE: Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/28/2008 11:15 PM EST
Thanks for the info guys!! There is a lot of meat to dig into here, and from the little I've read, it seems as though I was all mixed up and confused. The terms "magical" and "elemental" as I was using them are basically interchangable or can be used in conjunction as in the term "elemental magic."

Also, the info I read stated that necromancy is defiened as a form of magic most associated with spirit-summoning and that because of the negative conotations that communing with the "dead" infer, that it is seen as a form of black magic.

I guess subzero's freeze can be seen as another form of magic or even as a type of necromancy, but like Pred said, it would be a stretch on the necromancy front.

I guess what my real question was and still is, is do you think Sub's power comes from around him or from within him. magic seems to be the manipulation of things around you while qi, or chi, come from within you. I don't know, maybe i'm way off again, but what do you think?

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RE: Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/29/2008 01:12 AM EST
Chrome Wrote:


Nah man, you said necromancy had nothing to do with raising or manipulating the dead. Which would be wrong. Technically..it'd just be a more advanced necromancer. Like Shang Tsung or Quan Chi....or even Shinnok is.

They can rise, manipulate, command and communicate with dead things. They can do whatever they want with dead things, even though they're on different levels.
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RE: Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/29/2008 04:00 AM EST
asmodeus Wrote:
Thanks for the info guys!! There is a lot of meat to dig into here, and from the little I've read, it seems as though I was all mixed up and confused. The terms "magical" and "elemental" as I was using them are basically interchangable or can be used in conjunction as in the term "elemental magic."

Also, the info I read stated that necromancy is defiened as a form of magic most associated with spirit-summoning and that because of the negative conotations that communing with the "dead" infer, that it is seen as a form of black magic.

I guess subzero's freeze can be seen as another form of magic or even as a type of necromancy, but like Pred said, it would be a stretch on the necromancy front.

I guess what my real question was and still is, is do you think Sub's power comes from around him or from within him. magic seems to be the manipulation of things around you while qi, or chi, come from within you. I don't know, maybe i'm way off again, but what do you think?


"Funnel your Fa Jing through your hands and try to freeze Sifu." - From Frost's MKDA Konquest mode.

The power comes from within. But the moisture in the air that Sub-Zero and Frost pull towards them to create the ice ball comes from the air around them. So technically, it's both.
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RE: Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/29/2008 01:11 PM EST
ThePredator151 Wrote:
Chrome Wrote:


Nah man, you said necromancy had nothing to do with raising or manipulating the dead. Which would be wrong. Technically..it'd just be a more advanced necromancer. Like Shang Tsung or Quan Chi....or even Shinnok is.

They can rise, manipulate, command and communicate with dead things. They can do whatever they want with dead things, even though they're on different levels.


Nope.

Not raising. Summoning at least, but not raising. The suffix refers nothing aside communication: -mantia. What YOU say, is the etymological broading into nigromancy (essentially nigra equals black).
Now thanks to late middle ages rennaisance, products like Malleus Maleficarum etc. it has been used synonimous to the acts you described.
You also listed no evidence, facts or anzthing just stated an opinion. Necromancer is altogether a recogniyable misnomer in fantasy.
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RE: Is Subzeros ice magical? or elemental?
04/29/2008 09:10 PM EST
Ah...You're right, that's my fault. sry Chrome.

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