Ok, I've been reading that from you almost verbatim for about a year now. You're not coming up with anything new here. But, I'll indulge you. I won't even bring up the fact that MK is not a fucking painting and story should be way in the back of your priority list when talking about a fighting game.

Does Freddy really snap you out of the immersion more than the likes of Meat and Mokap? Is it really so hard for you to block Nightmare on Elm Street out of your mind and take Fred face value as a dream demon that lives in the MK universe? (It wouldn't be the goofiest idea they've had, there's living fire-men and winged vampire chicks in this great story of yours too.) Hell, look at him as a joke character if you want...is he really any worse than a recycled bloody skeleton model and Carlos Pesina in a mocap suit, even on a joke level?

Likewise for Kratos...is it really THAT hard for you to imagine him living in the ancient Greece of the MKverse and being pulled forwards through time by Shao Kahn, just like his arcade story said? Again, I'm assuming you have no problems with the MK characters fighting other characters from Greek mythology, like oh say, MOTARO THE FUCKING CENTAUR. rofl

This expectation that fighting games shouldn't bother to have a good story continues to revolt me.

Some people like guest characters, some people don't. A few is neutral or would only accept guest characters if they were some specific ones. For example, if a Killer Instinct character would slip in as a guest character, preferably Orchid, then I would be thrilled. But of course I am going to object if a character spot is taken by a guest character I don't like instead of an MK character.

I can accept Kratos, because I know he is one of Ed Boon's favourite gaming characters, so to have him in an MK game would be a dream come true for Boon. I think it is awesome they were able to have Kratos in the game, but I personally don't think Kratos' gameplay is very good. He's too slow and heavy to use and his weapon reach is too short compared to his God of War self. I would like more chain slinging, but I can see why that would be overpowered compared to the other characters in the game.

Freddy I don't like. Don't like the movies, don't like the character, don't like the way he looks... he's just not my cup of tea. So to have him in the game instead of an MK character makes me disappointed. Kratos makes sense (in that Boon likes him so much), but Freddy just seems forced and unfitting. That said, I do like his fighting style with the clawed gauntlets, so I wouldn't mind if they gave that to an MK character instead. Just with new special moves and of course fatalities, because I didn't like those either.

However, all this is just MY personal opinion and it is completely alright to disagree with it, just know that I am most likely going to disagree with your opinion then as well (obviously).

But in general, no matter what game it is, guest characters should be only that: GUESTS! They come and visit a game, then leaves again when the party is over. They shouldn't be an integral part of the game and not be written into the canon story, because they simply do not belong there.

When I see an argument that forces me to change my premises, I will.


Oh yes it is.

It is damn sure a story. That story is getting a movie adaption in 2013 for a reason. You could argue Freddy makes the story better. You could argue it's a bad story and Freddy's presence is harmless (which seems to be your stance). However, you're not going successfully argue that something with characters, a conflict, a set of villains, and conclusive outcome isn't a story.

And if we can maximize MK as both a fighting game and a good story without Freddy, I say let's do it.


They don't, but even if they did, that's a straw man argument. Freddy doesn't get points for being less disruptive than bad characters who wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) be in the game in the first place.


Context. You can tailor the context to make any character work. That's why I love MK: they put a robot, a god, a ninja, and a riot cop in the same room and made a working dramatic scenario out of it.

And why put in a joke character when we already have characters for comic relief? Cage is fine. We don't need meta-fiction for that.


Meta-fiction doesn't work like that. If Motaro was in "Clash of the Titans", it wouldn't work just because he's a centaur. Dumbledore wouldn't function well in LOTR just because he's a wizard. If MK established that Motaro was of Greek origin (and that the Greek mythos in its entirety is true in the MK universe), then you might have a point.

But dude, I'm not asking you to like Li Mei or to take anything from the MK storyline seriously. If you think Freddy works, fine. Just don't shit on people for not wanting him in. That's my only real criticism here. If my reasons don't convert you into my MK-is-serious-business position, I'm not going to fault you or anyone for that.

Just don't treat people like shit for your amusement. That's all I ask.

Only...I never said that. What I said was it should be in the back of the priority list.

Big difference.

And incidentally, MK9 in my opinion was a good story...one not impacted by Freddy and Kratos as non-canon guests in the least.

I'm curious, what do you think of Street Fighter 4? Because it's an excellent game (one that MK9 borrowed heavily from I might add), and yet it literally is the worst story EVER made in any form of fiction. So how is it that it is still such a great fighting game then?

Oh right, because the story isn't the most important thing, believe it or not.

Me too.

And Cage is not a joke character. He's a comic relief character. There's a difference. Cage is funny, but because he's a smartass.

A true joke character is someone like Rain or Dan whose existence IS the joke. And also, Greek myths don't have to previously established in MK. There was never even the slightest hint that fucking vampires of all things were in the MKverse until Nitara came along. And it doesn't matter if Greek mythology was foreshadowed in the story, because centaurs come from Greek myth in REAL LIFE. So if Motaro didn't shake you out your sense of disbelief back in 1995 in a game that originally dealt with a kung-fu death tournament, there's no reason why a human fighter from ancient Greece should. The only reason you accept Motaro and not Kratos is because 1) you're used to Mo by now and 2) Kratos originally comes from another game. That's it, whether you even realize it yourself or not. A powerful bloodthirsty warrior demigod in MY Mortal Kombat?!? I think not. Why, he doesn't fit in at all! -_-

What that implies to me is that you don't care if the story sucks "because it's a fighting game", and that's an attitude far too predominant among the community. Yeah, story's not the hugest draw for SF, but that shouldn't suggest it should be one of the "least" important factors for development of that or any other fighting game. Any FG worth its salt should of course focus on the core combat and gameplay first. But the notion that things should go "on the back of the priority list" when developing a game is ludicrous. Final Fantasy VIII had a pretty good plot by epic RPG standards, but you won't find discussions about it to this day wherein a sizeable amount of folks don't bring up how utterly shitty the combat system was. You put in all the effort you can into everything you're going to present the player, or go back to the goddamn drawing board. When I play a game that bothers to draw a plot for itself, I go in expecting it to be good; no matter what kind of game it is, doesn't matter if it's a shooter, a fighter or an RPG.

So, because Street Fighter, the king of the hill, has a ludicrous plot, that should suggest what, that it's okay for the rest of the big franchises to follow that example? That nobody will really care if they do? You know, the likes of KOF, Tekken and Guilty Gear...their plots may not be the stuff of epic fiction, but I give them credit for trying to give their worlds some substance, and hope they continue. Guilty Gear in particular has a nice little chronology of events to it and some very likeable characters, and each fanbase does, believe it or not, contain people who care about the worlds the writers have taken the time to create.

If anything, for all the praise SF gets for being the game all fighting games aspire to be (and I'll note here that a hell of a lot of hardcore fighting gamers dismiss IV as being far inferior to IIIS), you'd think they could be bothered to follow all the other examples and try harder. Buried somewhere beneath the sixteen-year-old British clones of east asian(?) dictators used to be something resembling scraps of a plot, and I haven't given up hope that someday we'll actually see that resolution to the entire Shadaloo affair leading into the events of III. I don't expect much, but I do hope they one day try.

Honestly, what they were thinking with IV's plot is beyond me. Maybe they are in fact just pandering to nobody but the hardcore, and SF's story is now an afterthought. That's a shame. Yeah, IV was a great gameplay experience, but if its plot gets brought up, I'm not going to dismiss it because "it doesn't matter", or excuse it because "it's a fighting game". I'll say it's shit. Which it was. Christ, even the EX+Alpha games were better. After IV's launch, I had more than a few discussions on just how much of a letdown and copout the plot was. It didn't completely ruin the game for me, but I'm still irritated that they just fell back on the exact same basic path every single returning character took back in SFA2 and 3.

SF actually had a nice simple story once upon a time; I went in getting the little tidbits I expected. Part of the intent behind the Alpha games was to go ahead and give the characters some background. Unfortunately, they later stopped caring. That's a shame, because I'd wager quite a few people were and still are interested in the details of SF's plot; that's likely a factor in why the Udon comics did so well (good enough to be reprinted multiple times in pocket and mega-size format, incidentally) - party because they went on and added a foundation to that house of cards. There are plenty of people who care about story in fighting games. It's a fact. Even SF's. So why half-ass it?

When it comes to MK, which underwent well over a decade of shit gameplay, with nothing else to bring people in but name recognition and tame violence - but through three separate games with dedicated Story modes - it goddamned well is pretty important, since they're obviously trying to make it a big draw, quite unlike SF which no longer bothers to put the effort in. So you'll excuse people for "nerdraging" at the suggestion of foreign characters being introduced into a nice, self-contained universe that's created a fairly detailed mythos for itself.

For the record, as irritated as I am by guest characters' inclusion, I am extremely appreciative of the effort made by the team to specifically exclude Kratos from Story. Good to see they care.

Silly you, Motaro is not a centaur, he's a Centaurian. Inspired from Greek mythology, but in the world of Mortal Kombat, he's not from Greece at all. He's part of a race that has nothing to do with Greece. Tsk tsk. ;P

I wouldn't mind an ancient Greek demigod of mythos to be in Mortal Kombat, but Kratos is already established as a character from a franchise that has nothing to do with Mortal Kombat. Then NRS should create their own character that is made specifically to be an MK character, not just take a character from somewhere else and copy/paste him into the game. To take inspiration from somewhere else is totally fine though. That's just my opinion. ^^

Please explain me this...
You want them to have a spot in the MK canon story, but not a significant one? Then why even bother giving them a spot if it really doesn't matter in the end?

Are you really asking me this? It's self explanatory. You guys complain that guest characters, apparently, take the spot of another MK character. You guys complained that DLC characters didn't have a role in story mode.

Why keep guest characters out if they have a spot in the roster? Even if it's just a cameo. If it won't hurt the story at all by having them in there, I see no point in keeping them out.

Because they are guests characters and have no reason to be part of the canon storyline. However, the DLC characters who are MK characters are already part of the canon story, they just didn't make an appearance. Well Skarlet did, actually.



And from what I have read, Kenshi's name is mentioned, but I have yet to hear it for myself. (Don't know where or when it happens)

We just have to agree to disagree then, because I don't want guest characters to partake in the canon story.

Okay, what is there to agree and disagree about? This thread isn't asking for your opinion whether or not they should be presented in the story, it's asking a what if theory and what would they be like. At least I've been giving a reason to have them be featured, I don't get what you need to agree with me about. I've clearly understood your opinion about guest characters ever since the infamous Freddy thread. You don't need to constantly state how much you dislike guest characters in every single freaking guest character thread. I'm pretty sure this site knows where you've been standing by now.

And you seem persistent in continueing to antagonize me. And you keep trying to tell me what to do, when you asked me not to tell you what to do. Try follow your own advice then.
You want guest characters to get a spot in canon story, I do not. So we agree to disagree and move on with our lives. So let's do just that.

I love how apparently I'm antagonizing you in making you respond to every single post when you obviously have the power to stop responding any time you want. Your reply didn't make sense. I never asked for your opinion about what you think of my idea for this thread. How can you agree to disagree on something that wasn't meant for an opinion? I'm just stating what I want to see, I never intended on discussing the fuck out of it with someone who doesn't like it becuase they're against the whole guest characters in MK.

I don't care who wants my idea to happen or not. I'm stating it because that's what the whole point of this thread is about. To list something you'd like to see if the two guest characters were apart of the story mode.

I hope you do understand that this thread isn't about your measly little opinion about your wants in a video game. This thread is specifically asking you what would story mode be like if Freddy and Kratos were featured. It never asked you to state how you don't want them in. It feels like I've been writing to a brick wall here. And that almost every single post you've written here has nothing to do with the topic at all.

This is what I mean with antagonizing. I have even written you a PM with an apology in hopes of you and I can get a chance to maybe get a long in the future, but no, instead you keep on being a bitch. It's sad, really, that you prefer to be like this instead.

Annoying you or not, I have stopped to care. I will post and respond as I please. I am stating my opinion whenever I want, of course in context with the thread's topic and since this is a thread about guest characters, I will state my opinion about them. I have also already made a contribution to the thread's main topic in my very first post, unlike you whose first post in here was you bitching about it's existence.

If you wish to discuss this further, I suggest you answer my PM first so we don't derail this thread any more.

Also, I would like to apologize to Unknown265 for being part of the derailment of this thread. I'm not going to do so any longer, even if Icebaby insists in getting the last word in this thread by replying to this.

If we could stop being immature children that'd be great.

Agreed,

I'll be honest right now...

I personally don't have a problem with guest characters in the game, BUT when it comes to the actually story of the game I would say leave them out.

The one thing I thought would have been cool, and maybe would have spared some nerd rage was that the guests could have received an alt costume with some MK influence, so they wouldn't stick out like sore thumbs.

But that's just me...

>Jaded-Raven
Hey, it's no problem. You say you aren't going to continue the derailment. Your apology has been accepted! (Though I would like to add that Icebaby's first post in this thread doesn't seem to be bitching about this thread's existence, but that's another matter unrelated to the thread)
As long as you and Icebaby stop with the arguing over the guests ITT , take it to PM and hopefully get along, you are both forgiven for the derailing!



Thank you for the compliments, Temp! ^_^

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My take on Freddy Krueger's "what if?" story involvement:

Freddy enters during the short time the Soulnado is active in the Graveyard. As his biography states, he battles Shao Kahn in the Dream Realm but is defeated and pulled out of the Dream Realm into Outworld. Afterwards he is fitted with demonically enhanced gloves. Now he wants to kill Shao Kahn, but the only problem is that he has to manuveur through Kahn's Palace and guardsmen. He does so and he hears Tarkatans chattering about Shao Kahn going through the portal to Earth. Freddy tries to get through the portal but is stopped by whoever you think should be there to stop him (be it Rain, Skarlet, or some other guy that I hope isn't Reppy, Baraka, Sheeva or Ermac).

After a fight that takes some time, Freddy is victorious and passes through the portal. Unfortunately for Freddy, the portal was losing its link to Earthrealm as Shao Kahn seems to have been erased from existence by the Elder Gods. Due to the weak link between Outworld and Earthrealm, Freddy is thrown into another area of the invaded city. Away from the rooftop where Shao Kahn was destroyed.

With Nightwolf dead, Freddy Krueger will remain in Earthrealm till he finds out Shao Kahn doesn't seem to exist anymore and starts trying to look for a way back to the Dream Realm.

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I'm still working on Kratos' "what if?" story involvement.

MK-influenced alt outfits, huh? I would actually like to see that. ^^