The Shinnok Thread (updated w/ MK9 spoilers on page 2)
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The Shinnok Thread (updated w/ MK9 spoilers on page 2)
04/05/2011 11:35 AM EST
Previous note: before creating this topic, I searched through the board's first 10 pages to see if there was a definitive topic for the fallen elder god, such as "The Sareena Thread" or "The Reiko Thread". Didn't find one, so I'm starting it.
My apologies in advance to the moderators if I have broken any of the board's rules by creating this topic.

On to our topic,
SHINNOK AS DLC FOR MK9 - YAY OR NAY?

Together with Sareena, Shinnok is my favorite character that is not playable in MK9 and in my opinion he is a character with lots of untapped potential.
To those who would like to see his return, how would you like him to be depicted? What moves should be added to his arsenal?

I'll take this moment to share with you a few silly ideas I've been writing down for Shinnok's return.
Taken considerable liberties and it's almost a whole different character in all but concept.
Feel free to criticize and share your own.

Appearance
Wears long, black and dark crimson robes that look distinctly impractical for battle with a black hood covering his head, leaving only his emaciated hands and face visible. His eyes have a sickly yellow color.

Alternate Costume
Wears regal-looking, elaborate black and purple robes with gold trim. The purple cloth's texture contains several rune-like symbols. Wears his trademark cap/crown.

Stance and Movement
Hovering just high enough to not be touching the ground and with his arms crossed. Shinnok's mannerisms reflect his disdain for battle (and overall smugness).

Fighting style
Shinnok has poor attack power, average movement speed and low defense (Boss Shinnok will be a completely different story, of course). Shinnok specializes in zoning, using all his special moves to keep opponents at bay. His Darkness Ally lets him create a opportunity for close quarters confrontation or nullify opponents who try to outzone him.

Special Moves
1. Tricky Portal: creates a portal behind him and his opponent's back then attacks the opponent using his elbow.
2. Judgement Smite: quickly dashes forward striking the opponent with a powerful palm strike to the chest. While dashing towards the opponent, a portal opens out of thin air and a large arm made of black miasma mimics Shinnok's palm strike, both hitting the opponent.
3. Black Orb: summons a ball made of black miasma that rotates behind Shinnok. Can summon up to 6. A different motion will shoot it towards the opponent. Can be shot at 3 different heights.
4. Retribution: lands on the ground and beckons the opponent to attack him. If Shinnok is attacked during this time he will disappear and huge hand made of black miasma will punch the opponent high into the air, setting up a juggle opportunity.
5. Dark Ally: Shinnok's shadow rises from the ground to stand at his side. Shinnok can take a hit without being interrupted (super armor mechanic).
6. Binding Abyss: Shinnok opens a small Netherrealm portal and the hands that raise out of it will hold the opponent in place. It can appear right under the opponent's feet, directly in front of Shinnok or in the air to catch jumping opponents.

X-Ray
Command throw. Shinnok psychokinetically flings the opponent away from him and into 2 large hands made from black miasma. The hands mimic Shinnok's motions - claps (hands squash opponent's torso in a clap), pounds fist against palm (one hand holds the opponent in place while the other violently punches the opponent's torso) and, finally clenches his fist (hand squeezes opponent's mid-section). The entire attack focuses on crushing all vital organs.

Fatalities
1. 4 portals open out of thin air from which several arms come and each grabs a limb and begins pulling. Shinnok snaps his fingers and the arms yank out all limbs, taking them to the Netherrealm, leaving the limbless body on the floor.
2. The camera focuses on Shinnok's and the opponent's eyes', quickly switching between them. Suddenly the opponent goes into wild convulsions, coughing up blood, the body contorting into impossible positions, tearing flesh and breaking bones in the process, until it explodes in a geyser of blood. Basically, Shinnok stares down the opponent until he/she explodes in a bloody mess.
3. Commands the opponent's own shadow to rise from the ground and destroy the body. It will do this by mimicking one of the opponent's own Fatalities.
4. Darkness hands raise from behind the opponent and pin him/her to the floor. As Shinnok begins to slowly walk towards the floored opponent, the camera changes to a first person view of the opponent. Shinnok's footsteps and the opponent's heartbeat become louder as Shinnok moves closer. When he finally stands over the opponent, Shinnok stomps through his/her chest, crushing the heart in a bloody pulp.

Entrance
A Netherrealm portal opens on the ground, oozing black matter and Shinnok slowly raises from it.

Winpose
Hovers slightly higher while chuckling quietly.

Final Round Winpose
Shinnok raises his hand and a throne made from black miasma materializes behind him. Shinnok sits on this throne while 4 Brotherhood of the Shadow cultists walk into the scene and kneel before him.

A few extra notes about a couple of aspects:
About Shinnok's re-imagined appearance
IMHO, in the context of MK, Shinnok stands as a sort of "god of darkness" figure, that said, I believe he deserves a visual revamp like Noob's. In past games, he and his surroundings have always been too colorful, which took some of the character's ominousness.
His frail physique hidden in huge robes is meant to create a striking contrast with the other great villain of MK - Shao Kahn. While Kahn is a burly, barbarian looking conqueror who takes everything with the force of his bare hands, Shinnok is a shadowy schemer that relies on his command of sorcery. Yet, both are unscrupulously evil.

About the "darkness hands"
Shinnok's trademark has always been the giant skeleton hands that pop in some of his moves and fatalities. IMO, changing it too arms made of dark matter is more accurate in evoking the notion that he is commanding several spirits at once.
It's a game in a whole different genre, but check this video to get an idea of how it might look in motion - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT_4in8rXio


Phheeeewww....pardon for the long post.sleep
The Shinnok ThreadThe Frost Thread
Join the jolly discussion to bring back these unjustly explored kombatants!
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/05/2011 11:51 AM EST
I have so much trouble liking Shinnok. He wasn't a very threatening or powerful boss, he's not a very good character, his gameplay is rather lacking and his looks are just awful! I mean really, the skin-colour, that ridiculous hat/crown thingy he has on his head, those horrid colours he wears on his outfit...

If Shinnok is to return in any shape or form, he really needs a serious revamp. Make him look more threatening and demonic, give him some colours that actually suit him as a Fallen Elder God and Lord of the Netherrealm, and give him some unique moves. Then I might like him...

That said, you've actually written down some nice ideas for him. If he were like that, I'd probably like him alot more.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/05/2011 06:58 PM EST
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I have so much trouble liking Shinnok. He wasn't a very threatening or powerful boss, he's not a very good character, his gameplay is rather lacking and his looks are just awful! I mean really, the skin-colour, that ridiculous hat/crown thingy he has on his head, those horrid colours he wears on his outfit...
.


I actually really like his design/color...
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/05/2011 07:06 PM EST
i think he could be really amazing with a revamped look and some cool ass gameplay. his fatalities in mk4 were cool and i hope to see his return someday.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/05/2011 07:11 PM EST
I agree strongly with Jaded Raven on this. I never really liked Shinnok. However, I like almost EVERYTHING about yours. I love the look you gave him, I love the moveset, the fatalities, and everything. The only thing I really don't like is keeping his Tricky Portal. I had bad experiences with my friend and that move.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/05/2011 07:12 PM EST
FUCK YEA!!!

Love shinnok, i just hope the give him moves that actually do him justice and show his true power vs the crap they did to him in mka

i see him as a person with fast and powerful combos

i really like his design but wouldnt mind them changing it :D
bad kids, bad kids, whatcha gonna do sequel doesn't know what to do when he gets straight up shited by you.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/05/2011 07:20 PM EST
YAY 100%, one of my all time favorite, nice stuff about him in your post to. If he does make it as DLC I'll have all of my "fave 5" in this game.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/05/2011 07:31 PM EST
Yes, BUT Not in this game.

Save him for the NEXT MK. I know alot of his fans want him in this game but seriouslly, would it not be bad ass if he was givin this mysterious persona and then in the next game BAM we see Shinnok and he look awsome and actually looks Boss?

If they have him as DLC in this game it will just ruin his character for the next game.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/05/2011 07:37 PM EST
I'm impressed. Truly.

I really like your vision of the character. I too have had a dislike of Shinnok over the years, but the ideas you've presented seem more in line with how Shinnok should be portrayed.

It actually reminds me a little of the MK:A Shinnok, which I found to be the only redeeming quality of that movie. And the ideas don't clash with Quan Chi or Shang Tsung, our two resident Sorcerer-type characters. Whereas Quan Chi is seemingly more a strategizer, and Shang Tsung is a devious schemer, this Shinnok feels like an arrogant, fallen Elder God. A fallen deity so caught up in his own considerable power, he is boh dangerous, yet robbed of cautiousness because of that very power.

A dark, almost Raistlin-like (Dragonlance series) personality/design is a good fit for Shinnok I think.

On the other hand, your ideas would also make for a very interesting female villain. Now that would be an interesting direction.

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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 12:06 AM EST
I like him from what I've seen of him. He's unique among the roster and he seems kinda necessary really, with Raiden and everything. I mean he seems like the kind of character who, if something massive happened in this universe, he would end up as a major player somehow.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 04:13 AM EST
I think if they put him in he should be a proper boss. Since all the bosses are greater more bulky, I think should maybe make him taller than the rest.
After all the elder gods are huge, maybe they can make reference to this as he has diminshed elder god powers, which is why he is taller than the rest. Hope he is in for DLC, but if not can wait until the next game.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 04:26 AM EST
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I have so much trouble liking Shinnok. He wasn't a very threatening or powerful boss, he's not a very good character, his gameplay is rather lacking and his looks are just awful! I mean really, the skin-colour, that ridiculous hat/crown thingy he has on his head, those horrid colours he wears on his outfit...

If Shinnok is to return in any shape or form, he really needs a serious revamp. Make him look more threatening and demonic, give him some colours that actually suit him as a Fallen Elder God and Lord of the Netherrealm, and give him some unique moves. Then I might like him...

That said, you've actually written down some nice ideas for him. If he were like that, I'd probably like him alot more.


If MK9 has taught me anything, it's that NRS is fully capable of taking underrated characters and giving them the TLC attention and makeover they deserve. Johnny Cage and Stryker are the poster-boy inspirations to that very optimistic mind-set.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 07:39 AM EST
To me Shinnok has alway felt like the big bad guy or big boss for MK even tho he made his first appearance in MK4 he had been mentioned in previous games but not by name like in Noobs bio in MK trilogy so story wise he easily fits in because he's the one pulling the strings so to speak with what we see in the first 3 games with shao khan and shang tsung and he's raidens rival so I think he should be in the game. Ed Boon did hint at him being DLC on twitter so I'm sure theres hope. I hope he can mimic other characters moves like he did in MK4 he couldnt do it in MKA sad
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 09:35 AM EST
Like a few have said, I want them to make Shinnok a fierce looking individual.

I loved his fatalities, know I wish instead of just summoning giant skeletal hands and just watching the show, I wish he was actually controlling the hands kinda like an evil puppet master.

One fatality I could see him doing is where he summons the hands and you actually see the hands following Shinnok's movement and they makes a fist and smash the ground causing the victim to lose balance and fall over. The hands then grab the victim and start squeezing until blood starts spraying from their mouth and nose. The hand with the victim still grasped turns them upside down and smashes them into the ground. Shinnok lifts the hand and you can see the victim stuck to his hand and the floor, so there's intestines and organs being stretched until they snap. The hand then goes back from where is came and Shinnok let's out an evil laugh.


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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 10:09 AM EST
Now that we know the story and everything for this game, I agree that they should save him for the next game. I would have loved to see him return with Quan Chi in this game, and then I think the story would be a lot different. But yeah, definately save him for the MK4 remake. And your design, fatalities and move for him seem perfect. I'd like Shinnok to really be ominous and extra-evil in the next MK or if he becomes DLC. The Shang Tsung clone from MK4, and the MKA bullshit just didn't cut it.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 10:31 AM EST
Vomit Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I have so much trouble liking Shinnok. He wasn't a very threatening or powerful boss, he's not a very good character, his gameplay is rather lacking and his looks are just awful! I mean really, the skin-colour, that ridiculous hat/crown thingy he has on his head, those horrid colours he wears on his outfit...

If Shinnok is to return in any shape or form, he really needs a serious revamp. Make him look more threatening and demonic, give him some colours that actually suit him as a Fallen Elder God and Lord of the Netherrealm, and give him some unique moves. Then I might like him...

That said, you've actually written down some nice ideas for him. If he were like that, I'd probably like him alot more.


If MK9 has taught me anything, it's that NRS is fully capable of taking underrated characters and giving them the TLC attention and makeover they deserve. Johnny Cage and Stryker are the poster-boy inspirations to that very optimistic mind-set.


Lords, I hope you're right. Because Shinnok really needs to bathe in the "cool" shower...


















... I suck.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 12:13 PM EST
As far as his looks are concerned, I don't want him to look like some kind of stereotypical ebil character, like Darth Sidious or something. If anything, i'm just against the robes hiding almost everything. Reminds me of the shadow priests, or the movie.

I'd rather Shinnok look like a warlord, or similar to one of the elder gods that were in Raiden's vignette. But in a less generic evil character way.

People complain about Shinnok because he was playable in MK4 so it took away from the mysteriousness or some shit, so they should just wait until the next game, which i believe should only focus on MK4.

The ideas you have are pretty nice though. I don't know if I'd want Shinnok to look frail though. That's why I didn't like MK1 Shang..
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 12:18 PM EST
shinnok will be dlc eventually:

Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
he's in story mode so he already has a model/costume/etc


his gameplay has always been lacking somewhat, but i know nrs could mak him awesome this time around
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 12:29 PM EST
jagro Wrote:
shinnok will be dlc eventually:

Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
he's in story mode so he already has a model/costume/etc


his gameplay has always been lacking somewhat, but i know nrs could mak him awesome this time around


Oh fuckles he was part of the DLC list...
I love Shinnok, but for some reason i'm a bit underwhelmed.
But i guess i'll just let out a:

yaaaaaaaaaaaaayimexcitedwoohoo

except semi-nonenthusiastically.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 12:35 PM EST
I definitely want to see Shinnok in this game. Design wise, I always loved his alternate in Armageddon. WAAAY better than his primary or any of his previous costumes, so I'd love to see them use that one with some modifications.

As far as moves are concerned, he should have LOTS of specials. I'd like to see his purple projectile/shield from MKM:SZ return. I would also like to see some new moves as the "hand-from-hell" moves never really did it for me. He should get moves that he used to have as an Elder God, or at least fit his Elder God form. He should also be categorized as a boss.

They could use his "2-hands clap" fatality from MK4 as his X-ray move; he uses his magic to lift you up as two hands from hell arise. Then the hands smash you and you literally see every bone crack. Something in that direction would be cool.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 05:04 PM EST
I didn't like Shinnok in MK4, at all. His fatalities were okay but I didn't like his look or move set. He was Shang Tsung WITHOUT the morphing ability.

But that changed after MK Armageddon. I'm still not sure how I feel about the colors of his costume, but I loved his new, unique moves. They fit his character and worked well together.

I liked his storyline importance as well. He wasn't attending the "Evil Committee" meeting with the other boss characters, he knew a lot about the Armageddon "Contest" and what was at stake; he was plotting ahead of EVERYBODY else: good and evil.

That being said, an appearance in MK9 as DLC would "Water down" his importance IMO. He would have a bio and ending, but Shinnok's presence MUST be addressed in story mode.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 07:03 PM EST
Fuck yes,I love Shinnok!

Shadowlord Wrote:

SHINNOK AS DLC FOR MK9 - YAY OR NAY?

Not for DLC,absolutely not.

He deserves his own game. :3

Shadowlord Wrote:

Appearance
Wears long, black and dark crimson robes that look distinctly impractical for battle with a black hood covering his head, leaving only his emaciated hands and face visible. His eyes have a sickly yellow color.

Alternate Costume
Wears regal-looking, elaborate black and purple robes with gold trim. The purple cloth's texture contains several rune-like symbols. Wears his trademark cap/crown.

Personally,I really liked both of his Armageddon outfits. You hit the nail on the head with the "impractical" thing,because that's what they should look like.

I dunno about the eyes,though. He had green eyes in MK4,which looked both unique and creepy,so it'd be nice to see some consistency. Although golden eyes would probably match his overall color scheme better,I agree on that.

Shadowlord Wrote:

Stance and Movement
Hovering just high enough to not be touching the ground and with his arms crossed. Shinnok's mannerisms reflect his disdain for battle (and overall smugness).

A BILLION TIMES THIS.

He is obligated to float in the air Magneto-style.




The Magneto looks closer to what I'm thinking about,but it's still not quite right. I know exactly the pose he should be floating in,but I can't find anything that looks like it anywhere. So frustrating.

Another thing I was thinking of is making him so powerful that he doesn't even really need his hands to kick your ass. In fact,he could have two forms.

In the first form,he has one arm behind his back,just to tease you. When he blocks,he doesn't actually try to cover himself or anything,he just spreads his fingers,and the opponent's attack hits a force field,shown visually as a glowing rune circle floating in the air.

But in the second round,Shinnok doesn't fuck around not even a little bit anymore. Both of his hands are out of the sleeves of his robe,and they're glowing with power,kinda like here,except he doesn't keep them raised in the air,because he shouldn't ever look like he's exerting any actual effort to fight:



This might the point where the evil aura surrounding him actually becomes visible and tangible. He might even shape it into spears and such. He's not even moving a finger while you're getting slaughtered just by the evil presence surrounding him. Holy shit. That's when all of his normals can get Dark Miasma Hand extensions that mirror the motion,but cover a much wider area.


Hell,they might even toss in a secret final form - that hooj demon thing he turns into at the end of Mythologies.



Another idea I had was his Amulet staff:


He can control it telekinetically,so it slowly orbits him and occasionally takes stabs at you from half across the screen.

Shadowlord Wrote:

Shinnok has poor attack power, average movement speed and low defense (Boss Shinnok will be a completely different story, of course). Shinnok specializes in zoning, using all his special moves to keep opponents at bay. His Darkness Ally lets him create a opportunity for close quarters confrontation or nullify opponents who try to outzone him.

You vision of his gameplay style seems pretty complete,although I'd still be kind of tempted to give him a teleport of some kind so he could dash right in your face from the other side of the screen,and you'd never feel safe fighting him.

Shadowlord Wrote:

3. Black Orb: summons a ball made of black miasma that rotates behind Shinnok. Can summon up to 6. A different motion will shoot it towards the opponent. Can be shot at 3 different heights.

Throw in some lightning effects,so they actually look like the stereotypical black holes.

Shadowlord Wrote:

5. Dark Ally: Shinnok's shadow rises from the ground to stand at his side. Shinnok can take a hit without being interrupted (super armor mechanic).

If they stick with the super bar mechanic,this move should probably be an EX version of something. It seems like it could potentially be pretty hax.

Shadowlord Wrote:

X-Ray
Command throw. Shinnok psychokinetically flings the opponent away from him and into 2 large hands made from black miasma. The hands mimic Shinnok's motions - claps (hands squash opponent's torso in a clap), pounds fist against palm (one hand holds the opponent in place while the other violently punches the opponent's torso) and, finally clenches his fist (hand squeezes opponent's mid-section). The entire attack focuses on crushing all vital organs.

Fucking OW. Just reading that made me wince.

Shadowlord Wrote:

2. The camera focuses on Shinnok's and the opponent's eyes', quickly switching between them. Suddenly the opponent goes into wild convulsions, coughing up blood, the body contorting into impossible positions, tearing flesh and breaking bones in the process, until it explodes in a geyser of blood. Basically, Shinnok stares down the opponent until he/she explodes in a bloody mess.
4. Darkness hands raise from behind the opponent and pin him/her to the floor. As Shinnok begins to slowly walk towards the floored opponent, the camera changes to a first person view of the opponent. Shinnok's footsteps and the opponent's heartbeat become louder as Shinnok moves closer. When he finally stands over the opponent, Shinnok stomps through his/her chest, crushing the heart in a bloody pulp.

These are fuckwin. NRS has been trying to play with the camera angles and such lately to make the fatalities seem more cinematic. Stuff like this should be the next step.


Another fatality idea I was entertaining was the Creature Summon. And unlike his special attacks,this one is complete. And I'm not even talking a giant skeleton or whatever.

I'm talking an unspeakable Lovecraftian horror.

You wouldn't even get to see it in it's entirety. You'd just see a portal opening up in the ground,then the camera switches to a low angle,so you'd see grotesque claws and tentacles and shit rising up from the portal,but the creature itself would remain unseen. Then the camera switches to a reaction shot of the victim,who are obviously completely horrified by what they're looking at. The creature's shadow falls on them,and the camera cuts off to Shinnok doing his win pose,as blood-curdling screams and sounds of crunching bones are heard off-screen.

Shadowlord Wrote:

About the "darkness hands"
Shinnok's trademark has always been the giant skeleton hands that pop in some of his moves and fatalities. IMO, changing it too arms made of dark matter is more accurate in evoking the notion that he is commanding several spirits at once.

Dark matter hands the way you're describing them seem to just be disembodied constructs made of miasma.

However,the absolute coolest part about the giant skeleton hands is the fact that they actually belong to something. It's like Shinnok is summoning a horrible demon from the very depths of the Netherrealm,but he either can't or doesn't want to maintain the portal for more than a second,so only the creature's arm goes through.

Look at how huge these things are. It always makes me shit bricks to think what the rest of the demon must look like.

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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 07:42 PM EST
Shinnok is awesome.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 07:51 PM EST
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I have so much trouble liking Shinnok. He wasn't a very threatening or powerful boss, he's not a very good character, his gameplay is rather lacking and his looks are just awful! I mean really, the skin-colour, that ridiculous hat/crown thingy he has on his head, those horrid colours he wears on his outfit...

If Shinnok is to return in any shape or form, he really needs a serious revamp. Make him look more threatening and demonic, give him some colours that actually suit him as a Fallen Elder God and Lord of the Netherrealm, and give him some unique moves. Then I might like him.


Couldn't agree more. While he has an interesting storyline, he fails in every other respect. He looks lame, he was a pitiful boss, and his gameplay is bad as well. I always hated that stupid red crown of his.Hopefully the redesign him for this game, if he appears in it.
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RE: The Shinnok Thread
04/06/2011 08:01 PM EST
the should have shinnok as dlc

Then Ultra shinnok in the next mk :)
bad kids, bad kids, whatcha gonna do sequel doesn't know what to do when he gets straight up shited by you.