I would very much disagree.

Neither Caucasoid, Negroid, nor Mongoloid applies to Jade. We all are aware of what she is. I find it downright senseless for any of us to ignore that. I honestly cannot understand why it is so difficult for some to simply refer to Jade as what she is. She is Edenian. She has dark skin. What more do you need?

Now, Jade was obviously modeled to resemble someone who is generally black in Deception. However, that does not make her black. She merely looks black. The sensible way of referring to her in that sense would be "Jade has the appearance of a black woman," but to simply call her black is absurd, just as it would be to call Li Mei Asian.

Jade is not black. She is Edenian, and she so happens to have dark skin. Again, what more do you need?

I just mean that this debate is a huge mess because we're all operating off of different definitions. Also are we talking canon vs real-world ethnicity because that detail seems to be muddled as well.

For the record it's pretty clear to me that canonically speaking, Jade's ethnicity/culture isn't expanded upon enough to provide a clear contextual canon definition. I would think it's "cut and dry" in this respect and agree with you.

I honestly don't think it would make sense to view in any sense other than her canon.

Giving her a 'real world' perspective won't help to identify her, as what she is does not exist in the real world. Of course, one can say that if Jade existed in the real world, she would most likely be black. However, since she is a fictional character, we have to refer to her canon. Really, it's all we got.

Yeah that was literally my entire point. I don't know what the fuck got into everyone or how that point got scrambled.

Because you are not the decider of the English language.

And you're DAMNED sure not the person who gets to tell people what they can and can't call THEMSELVES.

If a Latina woman says she's black because her skin is dark, then guess what? She's a fucking black Latina. The word "black" never has and never will mean "Africans only" and saying otherwise is OUTRIGHT RACIST.

So if there can be such a thing as a black Latino or a black Middle-Easterner, then there can be such a thing as a black Edenian or a black Vulcan or a black Kryptonian.

Because it's a color. And trying to tell people otherwise, trying to decide what words mean when you have no actual authority over language and speech, is a fucking thought-crime. It's immoral and offensive.

And you actually made a legitimate attempt to answer my question.

You, sir, are utterly relentless. Kudos to you on that. lol

No answer you could have possibly given me would've helped you, because the mere fact that you agreed with my stance - and before even sharing your counterargument - made anything else you say afterwards invalid.

My stance disputes the idea of Jade being identified as anything other than an Edenian with dark skin, and you agreed that my stance is true. Hell, you even used the word 'true.'

The funniest part about this is that your answer to my question didn't even have anything to do with my stance. It was about our debate over the validity of race and the word 'black' in accordance to such, which actually had nothing to do with Jade. It was merely you and I duking it out over semantics.

You can't even directly acknowledge that you agreed with my stance. In fact, your above post doesn't even mention Jade. That's how far off you've gotten.



Why don't you just stop the pointless battling and reiterate your agreement?

Because I'm far more interested in seeing you eventually apologize for saying Zoe Saldana can't call herself black than I am about us ever agreeing about what Jade is.

I have a serious problem with you as a person at this point, I have for months now, and the Jade thing is more or less irrelevant until we've moved past that. Why should I respect your opinion, why should anyone in this thread take your stance on whether or not someone is "black" seriously, when you've established yourself to be a racist who doesn't know what words mean?

Dude, you're just pissed because you can no longer make a legitimate argument against my stance on Jade.

You're trying to call me a racist like it does or means something, and it doesn't. You couldn't even state what I'm supposedly racist towards. Your words at this point aren't even collective; you're just ten times angry, and not for the reason you're trying to put forward.

Cut the crap, dude. You look pathetic. Seriously.

So rather than acknowledge any possibility that you've been in the wrong to the point of being racially insensitive and offensive, you're going to pretend like you've won the argument in order to feel better about yourself?

Classy, bro. Real classy.

This is why I say I have a problem with you as a person. I genuinely think poorly of you as a human being because of the things you've said in this thread and the way you've handled yourself.

If you don't care what I think at all and have no desire to do a little self-examination and make up for your shitty behavior, fine, that's on you.

But don't expect me to ever stop treating you like your word on the matter of whether or not a fictional character can be called "black" is completely fucking worthless until you get some perspective on what the word means and how it applies to REAL people.
When you can admit that members of multiple EARTH races can be called "black", and APOLOGIZE for previously saying otherwise, only THEN will you have earned the RIGHT to participate in a discussion about whether or not the same logic can be applied to a fake race that's not from Earth and have your contributions actually be listened to.

Don't try to do to me what I did to you:

Start your post off with a question about what hasn't been said, followed by a pseudo-compliment. It doesn't work. It just makes you look worse. lol

Again, you can't even tell me who I'm racists towards. That's how full of crap you are. You're just waving it around in a desperate attempt to turn the situation around to your favor, and it isn't working.

You didn't even bother mentioning my bit on Zoe Saldana until I reiterated my stating that Jade herself isn't black and let me remind you once again that in the very beginning of this thread you agreed to my stating that.

Again, cut the crap. You don't even notice your own hypocrisy, and it's sad.



And by the way, it's pretty comical how you say you think little of me as a human being for how I've handled myself, while you've been swearing up and down throughout this entire thread, over something that is ultimately trivial. Truly, you don't even notice your own hypocrisy, and it is indeed sad.

You can dislike me as much as you want. We don't even know each other. Your disliking me has no affect on my life whatsoever, and at the end of the day, I will not be affected or altered by this discussion, you'll live, and the world will keep on spinning.

Yeah, that's it. Just keep responding to every criticism of your personality with that same brush-off line that the other person is the one making theirself look bad. Maybe one day someone other than yourself will believe it.



I know you're bad at reading comprehension and word definitions, but even if I hadn't said it multiple times...which I did...it should be self-evident from the context. Let me be as clear as I can for you:

It's racist against pretty much ALL brown people who aren't African to say that "black" and any other ethnicity are mutually exclusive and dark-skinned latinos or middle-easterners can't call themselves black.

This is just precious.

You went from "you're racist" to "it's racist." Again you show a lack of consistency. In this case, it is because you really couldn't tell me what I'm racist towards. So, you changed the wording. Wonderful.

Brown people. Black people. White people. How interesting. You agreed with me yet again and you didn't even know it. You inadvertently referred to Zoe Saldana as "brown," which of course dismisses her capability of being black, as well as the validity of calling herself black.

You yourself stated that "black" is a mere reference to skin color. Obviously, so would brown. Her skin can't be both, right? So, if she is brown, as you imply, then therefore she isn't black. You contradicted your own argument, unless you were mistaken.

You know, you could have merely reiterated your agreement to my stance on Jade, and this could have been settled a long time ago, but no. You chose to instead go completely beyond Jade to something irrelevant, and now you're just full of inconsistency. We could always go back to square one, whenever you're ready.

Right back to the front page, at the near top of the page. My first post, and the first word in your reply...

What the actual fuck are you talking about right here? Do you literally have a learning disability?

You DID, and CONTINUE to do, the thing that's racist.

It is racist, therefore, you are racist for DOING it.

How can you possibly not understand any part of this concept?



You KNOW English uses "brown" and "black" to mean the same thing when in reference to human skintones, the same way English calls people who are actually shades of pink, orange, or light-tan "white".

You're pretending to NOT know things JUST to literally troll me on purpose now.


Since you keep bringing this up, let me make my stance on the matter clear:

What I said in that post on the first page, in my very first reply to you, was wrong. I knew it was technically incorrect, but I chose to not word what I was saying differently, because at THAT time, I felt that would be nitpicking, and I did not WANT to nitpick at THAT time.

LATER ON, when you started repeating yourself and obnoxiously trying to stifle/control the conversation, I was offended by your behavior, so I changed my mind about whether or not it would be nitpicking to call you out on your bullshit and establish the actual definition of the word "black".

Just curious but do you two even know what the shit you're arguing over anymore? I mean don't get me wrong, I'm munching on my popcorn here but, I'm trying to understand the actual dispute. Allow me to break it down:

Razor took exception to Riyakou stating that Zoe Saldanna is not allowed to identify as "Black". This might've been out of ignorance on Riyakou's part of her Dominican heritage and the heritage of the ancestry of the Dominican Republic. It's also an issue of semantics since "being Black" in America is often associated with having heritage rooted in Africa.

I'll be frank here...none of us (presumably) are Ph.d Anthropologists or Sociologists but you two would benefit from knowing that DEFINING "being Black" is a very complicated topic and you trivialize it by assuming that you have it all figured out.

Here...read this...What Does It Mean to Be Black?

What this has devolved into is NOT a conversation trying to educate or explore another persons perspective, or even discussing Jade anymore. It's a pissing contest plain and simple, with this insistence on 'winning' or 'being right'. So calm down, take a minute, and realize that Jade's ethnicity is confirmed Irish by me...just now...using science.

It's because she's green, isn't it? Racist.

Nah it's because her mouth is always full of whiskey, swear words, or boiled potatoes. Sometimes all at once.

It was not by chance that this struggle came to be. The blame falls squarely upon my shoulders for giving evil the chance it needed, and therefore fulfilling an ancient prophecy. (What THE fuck am I talking about?!) I was the fool who bumped this thread. Only I can destroy this threat (WHAT threat?) born of deception. (These are the words of Shujinko Baron)

lol You're so full of shit.

For one, if "brown" and "black" meant the same thing, you yourself would not have used them separately. Again, you show a lack of consistency.

Two, you know quite well the difference between "you're" and "it's," and their context, at least I'm assuming you do. The two are not intertwined.

Three, you're meaning to tell me that you deliberately put up a paragraph of a lie because you didn't want to nitpick? That just wreaks of BS. Your other replies to my posts prior to your rant go long with your first one. Were you that dedicated to lying?

In actuality, you didn't your rant until nearly a day after your last reply to me, and I never replied back prior to the rant. In fact, our discussion up to that point was entirely about Mortal Kombat characters. What horrible behavior did I show?



Congratulations. You have succeeded in being completely and totally full of shit. And all of this because I said Jade isn't black, but merely an Edenian with dark skin. Which is true, by the way. lol




I am well aware of Dominicans having an African ancestry; however it is not direct.

The closest lineage to her is not an African line. I made this point before with myself, about how just becuase I am of Dutch and Polish ancestry, doesn't I'm Dutch and Polish. I'm black with Dutch and Polish ancestry.

As for the oiginal topic, I always go back to Jade, as while all of this is completely irrelevant, it does lead back to her. My stance still stands, as always.

Oh so, she's "not black enough" for you. That is actually pretty racist man. I mean I get that she's bi-racial but you claiming that she doesn't have a direct African ancestry is bullshit.

So... The topic isn't about Jade anymore, it's how black we define this Zoe chick?

To be honest, I don't know that much about the actress other than she starred in Avatar and some action movie that came out right after and I haven't heard that much about her since, or at least heard her name in a while.

I mean, I could see her star as Jade if she was casted , I thought I had someone else in mind but the name slipped off my tongue.

And for the sake of not being dragged into this issue, I'm just gonna say, "you can't say the word bubbles in an angry manner. "

Really, you too?

How did you possibly get to "she's not black enough for you"? Are you trying to make me sound racist? Please, just stick to what I said.

The closest lineage to Dominicans is no longer African, it is simply Dominican now. That is my point. As time goes, new lineages are formed. Of course, everyone else on the planet is of African ancestry, but it doesn't make us all black.

This is not me being the slightest bit racist, and I honestly cannot see how it could be taken as such. I have no need to be racist, nor exemplify means of racism.



And for the record, I never once stated Zoe Saldana is not allowed to call herself black. I stated that her calling herself black doesn't mean she is. I am not denying her the abity or right to identify herself as she chooses.

Oh, and Jade is still just a dark-skinned Edenian. Just leaving it there in case we get back to it.

And now, coming to a theater near you this summer, she's starring in Guardians of the Galaxy as the green skinned Gamora, the most deadly woman in the galaxy. So, first, she's African, then she's Dominican, then she's blue, and now she's green. The woman's a chameleon, she can't make up her mind......She'd be perfect for Jade.

Cama cama cama cama cama chameleon

Maaaan I know I wrote a lot in my past two posts Riyakou but I provided some videos that DIRECTLY ADDRESS what you're talking about (not to mention making a shit ton of valid points that no one will likely read/address.) Did you watch them? I'm not trying to gang up on you dude because I agree with you about some of this but Dominican's not having recent enough lineage to be considered black is...well...there's a whole lot of Dominican's in that video that would disagree with you. Go watch it at least until halfway.