I voted for Edenian mixed. This is what I got in wiki when I typed in Puerto Rican people. "The majority of Puerto Ricans regard themselves as being of mixed Spanish-European descent. Recent DNA sample studies have concluded that the three largest components of the Puerto Rican genetic profile are in fact indigenous Taíno, European, and African". In my life I have been close friends with two mixed race guys. And when u ask them, they say they're mixed race. So Jade is mixed race Edenian. End of story.

Jade looks nothing like that though.

Jade is BROWN, so u can't put her with 'BLACK' crowd or 'Caucasian'. This is why she should be considered 'MIXED race'.

Personally, I don't find it appropriate to call someone "mixed" unless their parents or grandparents are different ethnicities. Like...if you're half black and half white, you're mixed...but if your mom's full latino and your dad's full latino and they're both brown colorwise, that ain't mixed.
Granted we don't know what Jade's parents looked like, but still, I'm seeing people use the term "mixed" to describe different shades of brown or Hispanics and Arabs, and that doesn't seem right to me.

She should be considered mixed because shes not white or black. Tanya should be considered black. Latin people are mixed with european and african dna. And because we dont know Jade's descent, she should be considered mixed, we only know her heritage to be Edenian.

Jade's skin is darker than Tanya's is in Deception.
I always thought, if they were to be compared to Earth people, Jade would be African and Tanya would be, like, Egyptian.

Jade was brown when we last saw her in MK9. She's like Adrianna Lima who isn't black or white but brown. U keep lumping the brown crowd as african.

First of all, there are lots of shades of brown. Black people are brown too, you need to be more specific about what kind of brown you're referring to.

Secondly, MK2, 3, Deception, and Armageddon outnumber MK9. Canonically, Jade is just plain supposed to be darker than she was in 9.

And third, she's still a lot darker in 9 than Adriana Lima. You've been going by her concept art. What you need to be looking at is screenshots from the actual game, like this:

I know there are lots of shades of brown. I bought a few tanning products so let me break it down for u. U can get natural golden tan, which is a bit reddish brown tan. Then u can get bronze tan which is glowing bronze tan. Then there is deep dark brown tan. Jade comes under BROWN tan. Now are u telling me the one with brown tan is african?

BRONZE tan


GOLDEN tan


BROWN tan


EVEN DARKER BROWN

Lastly, MK9 is the new timeline, and that's the starting point u should be concentrating on from now. I don't care about what Jade looks like in previous games.

All of those girls you just posted have lighter skin than Jade.

And you compared Jade and Tanya saying Tanya would be the black one, yet the only game where both were included, had Jade being darker skinned than Tanya.

This is the official render used at mortal kombat wiki



Jade is darker than I thought in these images.



I think Jade just likes a tan once in a while lol.

MK9 is a sequel to Armageddon. History has been changed but the PEOPLE are the same. It's the same Jade and her skin color should be what it was.

And your pictures just proved why concept art can't be trusted. You can't use a drawing of Jade or a render of Jade or a Vs. Screen of Jade as the basis for what her skin color is because the artists fucked up and couldn't keep her color the same from one picture to the next.

To get her REAL canon skin color, you can ONLY use screenshots from gameplay.

Here's her in game model render:

Yeah she could be considered black if it wasn't for her klassic kostume in mk9 which depicts her as olive skinned. Jade could be Jamaican, calling her African doesn't do it justice, Jamaicans are black but can be also be BROWN skinned, and not the kind the tan gives u. Tans give u reddish brown skin, if u want a brown tan. This is why some ppl look orange after a tan.

Naomi Cambell who's Jamaican?


Mojo yes she is darker than I thought. Haven't played MK in over a year lol

We are strictly polling Jade's race in her two MK9 story mode costumes, the previous or alternate appearances (olive Jade MKII) are not polled.

I would say jade is negroid based on poll as she doesn't come under tan.

Who is "we"? The only person running or paying attention to the poll is you. And why should I care about a poll that didn't start until way late in the thread?

Limiting discussion of Jade's skin color and resemblance to common Earth ethnic features to MK9 alone is asinine. She looked the same from MK2 to MKA and 9 is an inconsistent outlier, NOT the standard bearer for her character.
The suggestion that MK9 is the only MK game that "matters" to any given discussion is deeply offensive to me as a fan of the prior games who feels MK9 was flawed and full of errors in not just scriptwriting or continuity, but art design as well.

Well of course others are paying attention to the poll as well and asking that is the same as "Why should I care about others' opinions?" in basic. It's actually for the better that the poll started later on in the topic because now users have got content to read about the definitions of different races and are more knowledgeable before voting. It relies on the community and in that aspect the poll is not as much mine as one might initially regard.

I've never stated that we should take notes only from her MK9 appearance. The poll is about the race of Jade, which is the question the original poster had put forward. One doesn't change their race, you see, so it isn't asinine. The past Jades do bear a significance at least by having built up to what she is today surely and I do think that all of us are fans of the prior games. The fact is just that Jade MK9 is the canon one. There's no need to start offending me because I only repeated what was clearly written pages ago:I will also reply to your previous post about "combining all canon Jades" to determine her actual appearance (which I wouldn't buy because 'retcons'):I would like to underline that not all Black people do classify as Brown, a term that shouldn't be confused with the color brown because there is a minor but important distinction. The outnumbering method, in my opinion, is questionable to say the least and I wouldn't use it in cases where not necessary. Today the MK games occur less often but hold more content than ever before, hence e.g. UMK3 and MK9 shouldn't be seen equal in this aspect because the latter is like UMK3 except multiple times vaster.

Jade's MK:D and MK:A costumes were the same and in this matter they combined could be considered as important as her MK9 look alone, if we didn't address the basis that MK9 may have retconned her past (future) appearances. Whether it's actually a retcon or a natural tan change, we don't know, but there is basis to say that she has in fact tanned in some points during and between the games, right? After all, we should always seek for the most rational explanations for whatever changes occur (and not begin by believing the developers made a mistake) and consider the possibility of retcons only the last resort in explaining the details of MK.

I only repeated what the poll was specifically about, nothing new or radical, and there is a very solid basis for having it that way. That was completely unnecessary of you to do, RE701. But it happens sometimes... to anyone.If the majority will vote for the Negroid-Edenian choice, then consider her Black. If on one hand we would result with "mixed race", then she could be deemed Brown, then on the other hand Asian could translate to Mongoloid and Caucasian to White, respectively. In other words, whichever term will get the most votes, both "Mixed" and "Negroid" will have applicable terms. mwgrant0 asked the community and a poll reflects a community greatly.

I reject this notion entirely on multiple grounds:

1) 9 is a sequel and not a true reboot, the prologue chapter and Raiden's visions clearly show events from the original MK1 thru Armageddon did occur, and are a relevant part of MK9's backstory, making them still canon in a sense.

2) Again I refer to the matter that though history is now different, the REASON it's different is because of time travel, so the PEOPLE are still intended to be the same individuals they were before with the same genetics. Thus, what they looked like in previous games is absolutely canon and inconsistencies in visual design should be considered mistakes, not "the way things are now".

3) If one does insist on believing that MK9 is a separate universe from MK1-thru-A, then one must also believe that the MK1-thru-A continuity STILL EXISTS as a parallel universe.

I posit that because there exists a LOT more content that takes place in the MK1-thru-A universe than in the MK9 universe, then the MK1 universe should be considered the PRIMARY continuity, and the current canon NRS is now setting their games in should be considered a sidestory universe of lesser importance to the overall 22 year history of the franchise, much like how the universe J.J. Abrams' Trek movies are taking place in is considered a second universe and the original Next Gen/DS9/Voyager universe still exists and they're still putting out novels and running a popular MMORPG set in that continuity.
The most relevant quality when determining what version of a franchise is most important overall isn't "what's coming out currently", it's "what has the most history, what was the franchise built on in the first place."

I've never argued that. They are canon, yes, except for the retconned parts. Your beginning ground has no reason to invalidate Jade MK9's canonity; it goes in parallel with that. So: yes, it is a sequel and that only strengthens the idea of Jade MK9's canonity. I don't see why she would be non-canon.

There was no time travel. It was really a "timed MMS" that Raiden sent to his past self. He himself didn't travel in time – only some data did but you don't call that traveling, it's sending. The people should likely retain their genetics, but no one has any empiric knowledge on what such a fictive act would do hence the developers have free hands in defining its outcomes altogether. Maybe the alterations in the characters were a byproduct of Dark Raiden's last resort, it's impossible to break at this point how it is.

Be that as it may – it's not a mistake if it is made on purpose. Retcons for one do happen; not to say that this one was necessarily a retcon. After all, it doesn't seem like the developers did not take Jade's past iterations into account. Her skin tone in MK9 is 'close' with her previous canon iteration. Who is to say that she hasn't tanned as an Edenian guard in or between all those games? There is simply no need to deem it a mistake anyway.

That is not the case here to begin with. Maybe you did not know but I do consider it the same universe – if only with 'some' retcons. Whether Jade was or wasn't retconned, Jade MK9 is still canon. Your three grounds focused on the meaning of MK9 to the continuity and not on her canonity.

No, all of it is the same continuity since like you stated – MK9 is a sequel to MK:A and therefore they are in the same continuity. The outnumbering method is very fragile as explained above, and I will elaborate. What if NRS would release six Mortal Kombat games, each of them respectively numbered, in the next year – would we then have to wait for MK17 anymore after which in a snap of a finger Mileena's cloning canonically occured in MK9 and not before MK1? The quantity of appearances or the quality of the game in which a change was introduced do not determine its canonity.

To be fair, Jade's MK:A renders also vary in skin tone hence Jade MK9 is not even alone in this matter. Also: when you compare them, the Jades could very well be of the same race, only with different levels of sun tan.

Graphics update and face models do change but Jade still remains Jade.

Well I would avoid bringing movie franchises with changing directors and writers as examples to a game series that has had the same game team from day one to this day, albeit the employees have naturally changed quite a bit through the years. The Star Trek example could even somewhat match if MK9 was developed by e.g. Double Helix Games and not the primary MK team. But we should stick to games. There is no coexisting cosmos i.e. no additional One Being in Mortal Kombat because MK9 takes place in the same universe as MK1–MK:A. MK/DC is in another universe.

According to that argument Kano should be Japanese and not Australian because the franchise was built on MK1 in the first place. But you would be alone with that statement because the majority thinks Kano is better off Australian, into which he was retconned. For perspective; Master Chief's canon look is (present tense) the one in Halo 4 and the unnamed 2014 title, right? He started off with the Halo: Combat Evolved costume however and wore that in the Anniversary version too. Still, I would feel that his Halo 2/3 costume is the most important and draw that. What I'm essentially trying to point out is that importance doesn't always equal canonity. The MC's present canon costume is that of Halo 4 and Sergeant Johnson is dead in it but I wouldn't prefer drawing his corpse but his Halo 3: ODST costume because the latter catches his essence better most importantly.

Fiction or not, there's zero logical basis for the idea that sending a message to your past self would change the DNA of anyone who was born BEFORE the message was received.

To suggest otherwise is patently absurd.



Jade's skin color isn't the same in different parts of the same game though. WHY would anyone do that deliberately? You're suggesting that NRS's art team chose to be inconsistent from one image to the next on purpose?

It's WAY more likely that, because an art team is made up of multiple people, the person who worked on Jade's VS. Screen image, the person who worked on her in-game model, the person who worked on her promo render, and the person who worked on her UMK3 alt costume were each different people, and none of them were thoughtful enough to collaborate with each other and make sure the colors in their work matched.

And when two guys working on the same character in the same game produce work that doesn't match each other's, that's very much what we call "making a mistake".



Even if her skin color has been deliberately retconned, which I don't agree with, then WHICH version of MK9 Jade is the retcon? The render? The in-game model? The Vs. Screen? They're all different colors.

Inconsistency is an error, and an error can't be canon, because that would require them to repeat it on purpose in the sequels and explain in-story WHY one moment she's pale and the next she's dark.



It's not about quantity, it's about historical significance. I will elaborate further down the post, but the reason that MK1 thru A is the prime continuity is because it's the version all the others are based on. It is the source material and MK9 is just an adaptation.



Her hair and outfit are also brighter in that example, not just her skin. That would suggest it's the lighting in her environment making her look paler, not a coloring error.



That's just it, Mortal Kombat has NOT quite had the same team from day one. It's stayed mostly the same, yes, but not the writer position, and the writing/storyline is the most important part of a continuity.

MK1 thru 4 were written solely by John Tobias, but then he left and has had zero input on the direction of the storyline ever since.

Deadly Alliance thru Armageddon were by John Vogel.

And MK9 grants "story by" credits to Ed Boon, Alexander Barrentine, and Jon Greenberg ("story by" means they helped come up with the basic plot but didn't write the actual script), and actual "written by" credits go to Vogel, Brian Chard, and Dominic Cianciolo.

Multiple cooks in the kitchen and none of them are the creator of the franchise's original storyline.

Furthermore, stewardship of a brand is partially the responsibility of the company that owns it. Star Trek has, since its inception, belonged to Paramount Pictures, it has always had the same production studio overseeing the franchise.

Ed and co., however, got new bosses before MK9 came out when Midway died and the MK team were picked up by WB Games to become Netherrealm Studios.



Except the "Kano is Australian" retcon happened in Deadly Alliance, which was a pure sequel to MK1 thru 4 and contained no rebooting or evidence to suggest that the version of Kano we were seeing in that game was a different man from the one in MK1.

The argument can be made that the Kano in MK9, on the other hand, is not the same man who was in MK1 because although you personally don't believe MK9 is a parallel reality, it very well could be one.



Dude...Master Chief just takes off his armor and gets a new one in every game. (Well, in 4, Cortana modified his armor while he was sleeping somehow...I'm still not clear on how that works when she's a hologram that can't touch things and he was frozen in a tube, I mean what, were there little mechanical arms inside the tube she could use to poke and prod at his body with?)

Point being, that's not different universes or retcons, it's all the same story progressing in a linear direction. It's just a dude changing his clothes from game to sequel. "Which of the character's costumes I like best" is not really relevant to a discussion of "which version of a franchise is the primary one."

A much better example would be...Batman. There's a dozen different Batman universes. Which Batman is the "primary" Batman? The one in the Adam West show? The one in the Burton and Schumacher movies? The one in the Chris Nolan movies? The cartoon one in Batman: The Animated Series? The one in the Arkham video games?

The correct answer is none of those, of course. The primary Batman is the Batman in the comic books, because the comics are the actual source material that came first and created all the concepts and all other versions of Batman are just adaptations.

That also raises questions though because DC has rebooted its mainline continuity at least twice. So is the primary Batman the "Golden Age Batman" Bob Kane created in the 30s with the tiny purple gloves and no qualms against killing a man with a gun? Is the primary Batman the "Post-Crisis Batman" who appears in the character's most famous graphic novels like Batman: Year One, The Long Halloween, No Man's Land, and Knightfall? Or is the primary Batman the current Batman of the Nu52?

My answer would be that even though the Nu52 version is the only one that content is currently being produced for, it has replaced Post-Crisis Batman as a retconned version of the same character in the same universe but with his history changed by time travel, just like MK9 did to MK1-thru-A, I believe Post-Crisis Batman is still the CORE version of the Batman franchise.

My reason being, THAT Batman is the one who has the most exposure to the public because of the popularity of the aforementioned books and others in the same canon. Those books will remain cornerstones of the character's public perception for our entire lifetimes, most of the adaptations I mentioned have been based on them, and all future versions of the character will be influenced by them because they're the most significant period in the character's history. They are the most "source material"-y of all the source material. Therefore, I would argue that Post-Crisis-era Batman is the primary Batman.

Another valid example would be Transformers. Transformers has been rebooted a dozen different times. You have the original "Generation One", you have Beast Wars/Machines, the Michael Bay movies, TF Animated, multiple comic lines, 3 anime series which shared a continuity, the most recent show TF Prime, and the War for Cybertron games.

The Michael Bay movies are the most famous version now by far, they made billions of dollars...but they're still not the primary version of the Transformers brand, they're considered a spinoff line. The version of TF that seems to be the face of the brand to Hasbro is still the original G1, precisely because that's the source material and all the other versions are just adaptations, variations on a pre-existing theme that was created by G1.

...

Now, having said all that...personally, I don't actually have a concrete belief on whether MK9 is a separate universe or should be considered as taking place in the same timeline of and overwriting the original games. I can go either way on the matter because...

On one hand, it's clear that the latter is what the developers INTEND the story to be. In the minds of Ed and the writers, this is "the way MK1 thru 3 originally happened, except for the parts Raiden's visions meddled with".

On the other hand, the retcons simply prevent the two versions of history from merging into one compatibly.

Hell, The very fact that the corpses in the prologue are not wearing MKA costumes COULD be used as evidence that the version of Armageddon we're witnessing when Raiden sends his time message is NOT the one we played in MKA, but rather a similar version occurring in a parallel dimension and THAT dimension is the one whose past we see and change in the game. And in that universe, Mileena was born during MK2 instead of raised side-by-side with Kitana, and Nightwolf got invited to the tournament and Shang Tsung didn't go bald when he got old and so on.

But I have no preference for either interpretation, like I said, I can go either way on the matter.

What I do know is this:

Legacy, despite being filmed after MK9 came out, was based on the original story, not the MK9 retcons. Future adaptations are also highly unlikely to feature a storyline about Raiden seeing the future and accidentally getting his team killed trying to change it, and will instead always be another variant on the original story that started in 1992.

The MK1-thru-A storyline is the "source material", and the historical significance of having come first and ran the longest is one of the reasons, but much more importantly, it's where all the concepts were created.

MK9 is an adaptation, a spinoff, a variant playing off the original source material. The only difference between the new universe and any other adaptation like the Threshold movies, Rebirth, Legacy, Conquest, or Defenders of the Realm, is that MK9 is the only spinoff on this list that's also a video game like the original games were, not a different kind of media.

Being a video game, however, does not invalidate its nature as a spinoff/adaptation. MK: Shaolin Monks, for example, is also both a video game and a skewed adaptation of MK2 that takes place in its own separate universe.

So much like I would argue that Post-Crisis Batman is still the "primary" iteration of the Batman franchise that all other Batman media that Warner Bros. produces springs from and is based on, despite the fact that that version is no longer in circulation and the Nu52 is the current canon in the comics...I also argue that MK1-thru-Armageddon is still the "primary" version of the Mortal Kombat multimedia franchise, despite that story having ended and been replaced by MK9, because the MK-thru-A continuity will always be the "source material".

...

Now...I'm not saying that MK1 thru A will ALWAYS be the only Mortal Kombat that counts and MK9 can go fuck itself or anything, and like I said already, being "first" doesn't automatically mean "best" or "most canon"...The thing that the primary iteration of a franchise needs to be is most "iconic".

As I noted in the Batman example, the "first" version of a thing actually CAN be replaced as the prime version of the brand by a later iteration. But the reason Post-Crisis Batman is the prime Batman is because he's the most iconic, that take on Batman's story and history was specifically designed to be a perfect distillation of the best parts of all Batmans that had come before, with the most internally-consistent and intelligently written history and storylines possible. Thus, the stories about that iteration of Batman became the best selling and most well known ones, so it became the trendsetter for all future takes on the Batman universe.

That can be done with any franchise.

But MK9 is not a distillation of iconic elements. It deliberately references the past version and goes in the opposite direction to try and do new things with the characters. And because you can't appreciate how something is different unless you compare it to the original, MK9 and its future sequels will always be shackled to mentioning what happened in the originals, being compared to the originals, unable to replace them as "the version of Mortal Kombat audiences know the most".

Note that a live action adaptation could hypothetically pull off replacing the games as the face of the franchise because a lot more people see movies than play fighting game story modes, and being the icon version of a franchise is largely about which version the audience is most familiar with or remembers most fondly.

Legacy prevented itself from doing so for several reasons, such as being a smalltime Youtube production, radically reimagining the franchise's main hero as a villain, the series being cancelled after a cliffhanger ending, etc...but the 1995 movie almost did it for a time in the 90's, because like Post-Crisis Batman, it was a distillation of the iconics. But the shitty sequel killed the movie franchise, so that didn't happen.

Point being, it can happen, but MK9 can't do it because it can't tell its own story without first telling the MK1-thru-A story. A fresh start reboot that didn't have any connection to the old canon or confusing plot-gimmicks like alternate timelines would be required to replace MK1 as the source material in peoples' minds. And it would have to be successful enough that that new version of the story lasted for many years like the original did. Like...the new Tomb Raider was very well received, so if it has several sequels and they don't reboot again for like 10 or 20 years, then THAT version of Lara Croft would probably succeed at replacing PS1-era Lara as the main Lara, the same way Post-Crisis Batman replaced 1930's Batman as the "source material" Batman.

You could have kept it a little, just a little, shorter, wouldn't you agree? I normally write one paragraph per one quote but you wrote 25 in the end. Most importantly this topic is about Jade and when the topic becomes "MK9's Place in the Continuity?" a new thread (for the conversation) should be created instead. Nonetheless, I will still respond deliberately this time. So, bear with me.Going back in time in the first place is illogical and an illogical detail in an illogical event, is, logical. Magic is also illogical yet it occurs all the time in Mortal Kombat. Therefore, if magic is logical in MK, so are the hypothetical alterations that interrupting the course of time may bring forth. Regardless, I never suggested that the DNAs of the characters would now be different.There are artistic liberties. Ed Boon and the designers probably noticed this variation in her skin color but let it pass, knowingly. Even then, the in-game model should be considered canon and not the renders. The MK:A pictures also had a lot of flaws, for example. Shao Kahn's box art was from MK:SM and he didn't even possess such a costume in MK:A.Well Ermac began as an error yet he is now canon. Here is your answer:Like you stated: we look at the in-game model, of her two main costumes. The inconsistencies in the renders have nothing to do with whether Jade MK9 is canon or not. In fact, I would go as far as to say that the developer team knowingly let the 'inconsistent' renders pass to the final product only to create some fuzz within the fanbase post-launch all the way till 2014.Outnumbering is about quantity. Thank Heavens we got at least past that.No, her in-game skin tan is different. Therefore it is a coloring 'error'. More than that, she also has eyeshadow and lipstick in her MK:A versus pose.You're explaining it for myself, thank you. That's the thing here; John Vogel was writing both MK:A and MK9, thus the transition (MK–MKM vs. MKT➜) between the scriptwriter Johnnys should be a breaking point if anything. What comes to the team, it has indeed always remained the same team. You've got the same ice hockey team after a generation switch, the same applies to the game developer teams. You're overvaluing the producer's role in the storywriting and the MK team was in fact picked up by the WB Games before MK/DC came out (albeit it still said "Midway") not just MK9.With that basis someone can believe that MK:DA begins its own parallel reality because Kano changed his DNA for that. But no, it is not a parallel reality, RE701. Kano was retconned in MK9's predecessor and that is the reason that before and from MK9 onward Kano was born Australian. When you are born Australian, you are genetically a mixture of (herein) those British ex-prisoner descendants at all times. It's that simple.No, he doesn't: and that's the point. Cortana adjusted John's HUD, she didn't swap his armors. Again, this is a point when artistic liberties come into talks. You don't seem to take it that when a team gains a new name and work spaces, it wants to celebrate that. Similarly with MK9, Frank O'Connor and friends specifically wanted to indicate that "now the page has been turned." And nobody takes source material as seriously as Frank himself does. If you desire to take the source material seriously – MK9 is the eighth part in the "book". Going back in time is always rather cheap, there is no denying. But that's the way it is. MK:A itself was cheap in many ways. To clear it up: the H4 armor was what I'd call a micro-retcon.

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1] Core Source 2] Significance 3] Current Canon

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There are three separate matters. The BK Batman is always the core source, the seed of Batman. It is not to say that some versions will be influenced by latter versions exclusively. Just as PC Batman seems now like the most significant one, the Nu52 version may very well in time become that. Who determines the significance? To someone the seed may be the most significant, to another it is the current canon one. To many it is the PC Batman. The Nu52 version is in the present day the canon costume, you can't deny. Like I wrote (you didn't quote that part); importance doesn't always equal canonity. That was a redundant exemplary question because I had the answer midway of reading it.

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Keywords: A] Remake B] Reboot C] Retcon

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No it hasn't. Kevin Tancharoen didn't reboot Mortal Kombat. He remade it. In the same sense, Michael Bay did neither reboot the Transformers. He remade it. DragonBall GT is not a spinoff line of the primary franchise, it is in the same continuity. Even though in its case the previous primary writer is gone, unlike with MK9. But the examples almost never go 1:1 with the case at hand, so restrain them already, please. I know what you meant.I can't buy a piece of your "Clothing has changed" theory. The clothing was different in Deception's MK–MK3 era as well but MK:D is still a part of the main continuity. The MK:A intro was officially deemed non-canon back in 2006 and it has remained non-canon to this day. If they desired to create a parallel universe, in your opinion, why didn't they just begin the whole MK9 from MK1 and not MK7? A parallel universe would have worked so much better that way. So why is that? It's because (while there's a new timeline) the game is in the same continuity and the universe as its predecessors, dammit. We also know that the MK team is specifically a fan of recycling (like with the corpses.) Who is to say that Mileena was cloned for the first time in MK9? Maybe they just replace dead Mileenas with new ones and pretend that she never died, like in that one movie, if you will. I would not deem the æsthetical changes retcons necessarily and additional stuff is certainly not retcon. There are retcons in MK9 but so is in every sequel.
So you actually take Kevin Tancharoen as an authority to determine which way it is? Well tell me: how did MK:A specifically affect Legacy? It didn't. Neither did MK9. Why is that? Even though MK9 retconned some things from the past, the reasons for not taking that game into account is for 1) the plot could have been written before it and 2) the game is the eighth in the continuity and you need to go through seven installations before it first, and MK:L didn't last very long. What's more, it is hardly even based on the original games when e.g. Liu Kang became a goon. And dude, you are flip-flopping with your statements already, lmao. You began by referring to MK9 as a sequel but now you refer to it as a spinoff. It is not a spinoff.MK:DA is a variant playing off the original source material too and what's more, it has the same writer with MK9 (albeit the latter got 'additions'.) MK9 was developed by the official MK team, which has confirmed that MK9 is a sequel, those others were not made by the official MK team. What's more, I doubt MK:A will be any more a source material than MK9 with the side products (comics, movies, etc.) in the near future. Even if the MK9 retcons won't be embraced by the side products, that does not moot the game's place in the continuity. Official statements are above fandom guesswork.Now it is about what is iconic and what is trendy? Then let me clarify; Jade is not exactly a pop culture icon to begin with. She has a solid fanbase, no doubt. Let me get this straight: we are discussing about what is the canon Jade, not the "primary" Jade. Your examples prove that the canon version is not always the "iconic" one (like I told in the unquoted part) so let it be.
OutnumberingHistorySignificanceExposureIconicnessTrendinessFondest memoriesThis is just golden. First things first, while the developers provenly made a few wrong decisions, the thing is that you cannot always hit the nail when experimenting new stuff. This time it went for the worse overall (though we should wait for MKX.) Remembered most fondly? And you once stated that it isn't about feelings. If it is about the fondest, clearest memories; then it is almost inarguably Jade MK9 that wins in that competition. She obtained her first Story Mode chapter in the game (which was, should I mention, a financial success), she was coevally a hidden fighter in it, Jade MK9 has been cosplayed a lot and she got to be a fighter in the EVO tournaments. People remember the recent game a lot more clearly altogether than the older games, and I doubt that the super-difficult Jade MKII or Jade UMK3 with a broken AI are remembered exactly fondly. But this is not about what is remembered, this is about what is the present canon. Remember that.You wrote all that but you have still yet to convince me, or anyone for that matter, why Jade MK9 would not be canon. MK9 cannot tell its story without first telling the MKM–MK:A story and you know why? It is their sequel, like you yourself stated. Mortal Kombat 9 is in a mutual continuity and universe with its storywise predecessors and the most prominent difference is that it can be deemed to be in a new timeline. 9 means its past is recognized.

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You have the burden of proof in this:

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With added awareness, do you still reject that Jade MK9 is the canon one in the present day? You advise users to admit the truth (and to apologize) and we want this topic to see its proper ending. Reply as you see it, but practice what you preach. Lastly, for the sake of not stealing the readers' time, do the effort and keep it shorter in the future. Much appreciated. ~Z

Yeah, I know that's an intimidating wall of text, I'm sorry, but I wanted to cover all the bases there. It's a complicated subject.



Well it's still relevant to Jade, because the argument had turned into "is her MK9 skin color canon, or was it a mistake and we should still be going by the color she is in MK2, UMK3, and Deception/Armageddon?"

And the answer to that is important, at least to me, because I do think they fucked up bad in MK9 and her skin color in that game should be just plain ignored as an error that hopefully won't be repeated in the next game.



Ever heard the saying "two wrongs don't make a right"? What "Magic" does when you use it still has to make sense to the established rules of how the magic works.

For example, if you cast a fire spell, it's gonna burn things because it's fire, not make them cold like ice.

And if you time travel, you just plain can't change anything that happened BEFORE the point you travel to.



Changing their DNA is the only way a person's canon skin color could permanently change.



Spotting an error and not fixing it is NOT taking an artistic liberty, it's just irresponsible design.



If everyone on the whole board were able to stick to that, there wouldn't be much argument from me because her in-game model is the darkest version of her in the game and is nearly the same color she was in the old games.

But lots of other people keep looking at the render and thinking it counts and going "she's way lighter skinned now". That's kind of a problem for an argument about what color her skin is, to have a bunch of advertisement pictures be widespread out there, where her skin color is way different from what it is in the actual game.



You're giving them WAY too much credit, repeatedly assuming an artistic mistake was done on purpose and coming up with reasons why someone would do that.

The most likely reason it happened is either no one caught it or they didn't have time to fix it because game development is a very busy, hurried process with a stressful crunch to meet deadlines, and Boon's team does have a history of not getting things done in time and shipping games that are incomplete or glitchy, and even though WB isn't rushing them as hard as Midway used to and MK9 is certainly more polished than any of their games have been since MK2 or 3, old habits die hard.



When Vogel wrote DA, Deception, and Armageddon, he kept everything Tobias wrote from the previous games canon. He never retconned out an actual bio or ending that had been part of the previous story.

Notice that, for example, nowhere in the actual games did it say "Kano is Japanese", that information was from the back of a comic book, and the comic books were only partially canon (for example, what Scorpion does in the MK2 comic and what Scorpion's MK2 bio say don't quite agree with one another)

So making Kano Australian like he was in the movie is more of a reveal than a retcon.

Vogel (or rather, the new guys who wrote MK9 that he mostly just supervised) didn't start throwing away Tobias-written text until MK9. That is one reason why that game is the breaking point where MK could be considered two different universes instead of the same one.

The other, bigger reason, is the obvious fact that 9 was advertised as a reboot and has a plot where Raiden deliberately changes the timeline.



That's not how it happened, but even so, MKvsDCU wasn't canon either, and in fact was the starting point for some of the retcons that we saw in MK9, such as Scorpion being a direct henchman of Quan Chi. So it adds more to my point than to yours: Vogel's writing team didn't start ignoring Tobias's writing until they started working with Warner Bros.

The change in the way the story is treated clearly coincides with a change of creative team and publishers.



If Kano had been retconned into something other than Australian in MK9, would you still say they were the same universe? Would you believe that Kano being Australian wasn't canon in the old games anymore?

If it's NOT a parallel reality, and Jade was established to have been born a specific color in MK9's predecessors, then she must genetically be that color "at all times" as well.

So if her skin color in MK9 doesn't match her color in 2, 3, and Deception, then MK9 is wrong.



It's true that she only mentions changing his "firmware", but I did a little searching and apparently, 343 put something out that claims his armor had nanobots for repair and upgrades and Cortana used them, to explain why the armor looks different than it did in 3.

The canonicity of that statement is debated though and most Halo fans just figure the armor was retconned because they wanted a new artstyle. There is some bias against 4 in general, though. Personally, I didn't think it was bad storywise.



Or, because NRS specifically calls it a "reboot", it's the first part in a NEW book series.

Which, in multiversal-fiction terms, would mean it takes place in a parallel dimension or alternate timeline from the original.



You'll get no argument from me on that point.



It may indeed. I covered that point myself, that these things can be replaced given enough time and popularity.

But Nu52 Batman's story is another attempt to do a true and definitive Batman just like Post-Crisis was. It isn't "look at what happened in the previous timeline and look at how weird and different it all is now, isn't that shocking?" like MK9's is.

That's the thing that will always prevent MK9 from becoming MK-Prime, the fact that it REFERENCES the old canon and treats it as "the original" vs. "the different".



I'd call it a matter of "majority rules". Post-Crisis is the most significant Batman because it's the Batman the greatest number of fans are familiar with.



A reboot and a remake are in many ways the same thing.

The only difference between them is that a "remake" can choose to tell the exact same story the original told, word for word, with only new actors and filming techniques to make it LOOK modern, while "reboot" is a word you are specifically only supposed to use when a franchise is dead or dying and needs to be revived or started over from scratch, so you are changing the story itself.

For example, 2014 Robocop is a reboot of 1987 Robocop, not a remake, because it tells a completely different story with completely different characters. The only person who even has the same name is Robocop himself being "Alex Murphy".



DBGT was designed to be a direct sequel to Z, not a reboot. And even so, many fans refuse to acknowledge GT as canon, specifically because Toriyama didn't make it.

MK9 is only a sequel to Armageddon in an indirect sense because NRS calls it a reboot and the time travel creates a new timeline where things are different.

And like I said, it might not be MKA's Armageddon we're seeing in that prologue, it might just be a SIMILAR one in a second MK universe, where everybody wore different clothes and had slightly different pasts from what the old bios said.



Midway themselves had admitted that parts of Shujinko's Konquest aren't canon.



And yet, in 9, the bodies are all laying on the steps in the same places where they were in that intro.

So if MKA's intro wasn't canon to Armageddon...but it IS canon to MK9, that's just more to suggest MK9 and Armageddon aren't the same universe.



Because the only way to tell the "Raiden is getting visions of the future" story is to SHOW the future he's getting visions of.

But there's no actual proof that his future is the same games we played. They look similar, but they also look different in some ways, beyond just minor stuff like everybody's corpses wearing the wrong costumes.



That's a silly question and you know it. Obviously the game shows us Kitana, Jade, and Shao Kahn hearing about or meeting Mileena for the first time in their lives.



The retcons in previous games only added bits of information we didn't know before. The ones in 9 are huge contradictions of things we DID know before.



Well I personally wouldn't, but other people might...IF Tancharoen's work had gotten big enough, but it never did. Many fans thought for YEARS that the FIRST movie was "the real story", after all, and believed that Johnny fought Goro and stuff like that.



Well obviously there's nothing for Armageddon to influence in the first place since Tancharoen was retelling MK1 thru 3. MK9, on the other hand, is a version of MK1 thru 3, so if K-Tanch wanted to, he COULD have drawn from it.

And in one small way, he actually did: Kenshi's sword was called "Sento" and the Sub-Zero bros were "Bi-Han" and "Kuai Liang". Those names appeared for the first time in 9.

Also, MKA didn't influence Legacy, but Deadly Alliance did, by having Kenshi as a character, and Deception did, because it was the first game where Ermac called himself "we" and talked with an echo.

But K-Tanch used the original MK1 thru 3 the most, for instance, having the MK2 origin for Mileena, and never having any Raiden time messages.



I'm doing that because it's technically trying to be BOTH at once, which is one of the problems with the game, and I already told you I can argue either way on the matter without preference specifically because NRS's words don't match their intentions.

The creators CALL it a "reboot", which would be a spinoff/adaptation.

But they also gave it a plot that's trying to be a sequel, since it starts at Armageddon instead of being fresh and disconnected from the previous games.

Deciding which it is isn't up to me, it's up to you:

If it's a sequel, then Jade's lighter skin is an error because she's supposed to be the same Jade she always was.

If it's a reboot, then it's a different Jade and her skin can be whatever color they want, BUT we would then have to acknowledge that there are TWO Jades and which one do we prefer to talk about when we talk about her skin color or ethnicity?

Because if that's how it is, then I would rather talk about the original Jade, not MK9 Jade, because Original Jade is the one who sets the bar for what color she's SUPPOSED to be.



No it's not, it's a direct continuation of the events of MK1 thru 4, taking place in the same timeline those games occur in and unlike MK9, there's no evidence to suggest even the vaguest possibility otherwise.



The significance of those additions is far greater than you seem to be acknowledging. The fact that Vogel isn't the only writer anymore, and is most likely merely a supervisor who okays the script other people turned in, suggests that his control over the material is no longer absolute, and that's the reason there are so many retcons.

When it was JUST him, he stayed completely loyal to the foundations Tobias laid down.



No, the team calls it a reboot, not a sequel. The only people using the word "sequel" to describe MK9 are us fans because of the Armageddon opening scene.



That's because MKA is the last part of a long story and the side products never get that far.

One day, though, MK COULD have an adaptation that makes it that far. For example, Udon has made Street Fighter comics that follow the canon of those games and go all the way from the beginning to SF3 and 4. MK could get something like that, hypothetically.



Significance in the franchise is obviously not the same thing as continuity.



Iconography has nothing to do with trendiness. A trend is a fad, a brief fling in pop culture.

For that matter, MK9 could be considered the "trendy" version of Mortal Kombat.



YOU are discussing the "canon" Jade. You're the only one fixating that tightly on one small version of Jade alone.

Me and the other people throughout 8 pages of this thread are discussing ALL Jades and what I've been trying to say this whole time is that the thread itself is about Jade as a WHOLE, not JUST MK9 Jade, so your poll is flawed for having that limit on it.



Exactly. And what I'm saying is, we SHOULD be talking about the iconic one, not the canon one, if they are in fact two different characters, because the canon one is only ONE PIECE of the history and character of Jade. We should be addressing the MAJORITY of the "what color/race is Jade" picture.



I never rejected that she's canon.

I rejected that we should be talking about only that version, and gave a loooong list of reasons why the other, darker colored versions matter more.

And that's the whole argument in a nutshell, so I'll end it there.

Nobody has an issue here with taking the in-game costume into account. As much as you would like it, to stir the pot, you cannot take the AtomHawk design into account. It's the in-game model (like you stated) and in fact it's so similar with her previous in-game models that it is not a retcon at all.

Repeatedly? Hold your water, I didn't repeat that. Nevertheless – the MK9 renders don't matter in answering the original poster's question. Your very theory about hurrying does explain the story flaws for a large part as well.

No, Kano was initially Japanese as stated in the canon comic book and if two canon sources don't match together, that doesn't mean that the other source is now moot. When a misconception occurs, the developers will (as always) just correct how it really is, like they did with Scorpion in your example. So saying that Kano didn't begin as Japanese is injustified. About your "bigger reason", MK9 is indeed one sort of a reboot because it reboots/restarts an era (MK–MK3). In the same time however; like you stated – it is a sequel, and a part of the original continuity and universe.

You have got to look at this from the perspective of NetherRealm Studios, since they obviously wanted to establish Quan Chi's place in the MK–MK3 era (priming his place for MK9 this way) and in fact it might be all because Ed Boon desired to add him there. See, Quan Chi even made a cameo in the outro of MK:SM (MKII era) which was supervised by Ed the co-creator.

As you already stated, her MK9 in-game skin tone is very similar with her previous in-game skin tones and the nutjobs who take her unofficial MKII palette swap DLC costume in MK9 or the AtomHawk render into account, should simply be corrected. What's more, a guard in a sunny realm can and does tan. So there lies no problem whatsoever in that department.

That was officially explained by "artistic liberties" in the beginning by 343i. See: even this radical change could be explained afterwards with canon ways. So if nanobots – that weren't known to change a man's armor before in Halo – are the explanation for the Master Chief's armor change in a cryo tube, why the Hell is it so hard to decipher that Jade has tanned at some point after UMK3? Tanning is a natural, simple and logical explanation.

No, it is the same "book series" like all the Back to the Future installations are. MK9 restarts the "clock" if you will, it reboots the era of MK–MK3, but not the continuity. It takes place in the same universe and the developers would probably tell the same thing (even if there are retcons.) Otherwise we wouldn't talk about retcons to begin with, were it not actually a sequel.

Well what is that supposed to mean? I didn't even expect one, lmao. MK:D was meant to be the 'finale' but then they came up with a bigger, badder, flamier boss than Onaga and bundled everything together for easy profit. Not to say that I disliked the game, but Armageddon was no masterpiece.

Obviously because MK9 is not a fresh start, it is a sequel. I covered that even before you, in the post before your post, in the part you didn't quote.

So the popularity dictates the significance in your opinion? I'd disagree on that, RE701, but I don't care about your sub-topic on the Batmans. There are so many alternative options for defining the significance to begin with and this discussion is not exactly supposed to be about that to start with.

I don't buy that at all – that they would be almost the same thing. A reboot can also have the same story as the original, as long as the gameplay or the other parts of the game are different. Kevin T. doesn't have the right to reboot the series either. He could remake Tanya today, but he couldn't reboot her. There's a significant difference between remakes and reboots.

Apparently you refuse to acknowledge the correct terminology and keep using false terminology, perhaps because somebody pointed it out to you instead of having figured it out by yourself. It doesn't matter if there are fans that refuse to recognize Grand Tourer because I can get their (frustrated) viewpoint but they do not work as an argument against the fact that DBZ and DBGT are in the same continuity. It wasn't a time travel and those "slight differences" are a petty reasoning for calling that a new cosmos.

So you actually suggest that every part of the MK:D Konquest Mode during MK–MK3, where you could see different kinds of costumes, aren't canon? That's downright avoiding the truth. Deception did also showcase different costumes for the MK–MK3 era characters in that time, some of which were for granted canon, and that moots the whole "Omg, the intro of MK9 is a parallel universe because NRS reused HD costumes for the corpses." As if they never reuse stuff. You are clinging to a shallow conspiracy theory.

You know what? Once you have actually obtained convincing evidence for your loony theory, post about that then in another topic. Because now you are looking into it far too much and so far there is no reason to believe it other than unwillingness to admit that MK9 is a part of the main continuity. Why would they alter the corpses' places any more than necessary? Of course they took notes from the original cutscene and the big fight was probably non-canonized only to give the developers the freedom to shape it as they see fit in the future, without writing too much into stone in 2006.

I'm laughing my ass off. Firstly, you might want to start quoting whole parts and not just fractions of my paragraphs, because secondly I also stated that a "parallel universe" story would have been so much better if the story wasn't tied to MK:A so strongly. It's not like the visions were any necessity to have, the visions existed because they connected MK9 to MK:A – the prequel. With a new universe NRS would have started from a clean slate.

I'm not saying that it is necessarily so, because Shao Kahn said that he's finally got his own child. I mean, he should have had Mileena dead for a long while to say that. Jade said that "By the gods... You are Mileena!" though, and it would fit for "Mileena's return". If the Master Chief's armor change can be justified with something as silly as nanobots, Mileena should be an easier case after that. She is a renewable clone after all.

You seem to misinterpret the whole meaning of a retcon. Additions that do not contradict the previous information are not retcons. Quan Chi and Nightwolf were additions, Human Smoke survived because of the future visions and the most of the changes were a result of Raiden's visions. Of course there were retcons as well – the MK team had become NRS and the main canon was awakened. Besides, MK9 isn't the first time someone sees visions about the future: Delia also did. MK9 is comparable with H4.

Why do you speak for misundestanding people, RE701? As if they would get to determine what is real, when they barely have a grip on the reality of the events. So you think that Kevin Tancharoen can actually determine the way the things are as long as they are popular enough? That's nonsense and an indication of you lacking a solid basis for explaining this stuff. (For if you need to rely even partially on unofficial authorities.) You referred to DBZ fans in an attempt to justify your point, now Kevin Tancharoen, geez.

Ta-da; you actually mooted your very own argument. Color me impressed. You omitted MK9 from the source material, and I for my misfortune took your misleading statement as truth, only to be shown by yourself that you provided false information. Maybe I should do that more, so you could spot your own mistakes from my writings. It'd be in fact three small ways, and there is no certainty whether the director was influenced by MK9's versions of Kenshi and Ermac or the earlier iterations. So, MK9 is source material.

Cut that whole skin tone crap, it's the same Jade in MK9 and MK:A, as you and me and everybody knows by now. The game can be considered a "reboot" only because it reboots/restarts the era of MK–MK3 but it is still a sequel. It is not a spinoff and spinoffs are oftentimes canon either way.

It is more-or-less (certainly less than MK9) for it retcons a few things. The retcons are your problem with MK9 anyway, and even MKII retcons stuff. Only in different levels, but that alone should not work as a decider herein.

That's (again) fandom guesswork, although possible indeed. Regardless, Vogel most likely had the final say on the script out of all the scriptwriters. When you refer to retcons and MK9 coevally, you recognize MK9 is canon.

MK9 is truly a sequel and once again, while it reboots/restarts the era of MK–MK3, it is coevally a sequel, like you yourself stated and I explained.

And you told that "the trendsetter is the primary one" meaning that MK9 is now the primary version. MK:A is much more a fad than MK9 will ever be. If iconography has nothing to do with trendiness, then it makes one wonder why you called the primary one both iconic and trend-setting, respectively.

Your text in capitals makes me laugh. Seriously, one doesn't change their race, had you read more deliberately what was written. What's more, that's a blatant lie and a juvenile insult/try to sabotage good community efforts. If you read through the last few pages, we were indeed talking about Jade MK9's race; there is no evidence to say that we were talking about some cheapass mixture of "all Jades combined." Then, as you yourself stated, Jade MK9 (as seen in the Story Mode) can be considered the same race as the previous Jade (from MK:A) and therefore it is not flawed at all. Your flip-flopping thoughts are flawed. This just strengthens the poll's validity.

Alas we are coming to where this started. You assuredly did reject it and even so: when the MK9 version of Jade is canon and not a retcon, the poll doesn't rule Jade out from the other games. More than that, she probably tanned somewhere during MK3–MK:D hence Jade is justly paler in MK9. The palest canon Jade bears the most reliable skin tan for examining for it doesn't have any extra sun tan. This dispute should be laid to rest already because Jade MK9 and Jade MK:A are the same person. You very well know that "looong list" doesn't suffice as an argument, especially given how you didn't even quote any vital parts to support this. If you don't accept the facts, you will become a hypocrite. My frustration on you is warranted.

en·tire adjective \in-ˈtī(-ə)r, ˈen-ˌ\ : complete or full : not lacking or leaving out any part ~Merriam-Webster

You use racist cards, sexuality cards... You stoop to hypocrisy. It's time for you to look in the mirror, RE701. You tried to get away with a lie, and failed.

Sigh...
We both agree that our posts have gotten way too long, right?

And frankly, a lot of the things you've just said, I think sound kind of...frankly, insane. (particularly the bits about magic having no rules, and Jade's color changes being the result of a sun tan) And I can't really have a rational debate if the other person either doesn't sound like they're being rational, or isn't going to listen to my side and is so sure of their position that they can't be convinced of anything, because how could anything be accomplished under those circumstances?

So I'm going to shorten things by only addressing the points I think are most important to the argument, why it started and how to settle it:

First of all...



You misunderstand what I was trying to say here, but in fairness, I could have worded it better.

What I mean is that I never said MK9 Jade ISN'T canon. The notion I rejected is idea that she's the ONLY canon Jade. I'm saying BOTH versions are "the canon one" because either they're the same character, in which case the old version is relevant to the new version, or they're from two different universes, in which case, each universe is their own separate canon and both are equally valid.
So specifically, my point of view is, there might be TWO canons...and if there's not, and everything is one canon, then ALL the games matter to that canon, not just MK9...so all of Jade's previous skin colors matter.

EITHER WAY, MK9 Jade is a canon Jade, but she's not the ONLY canon Jade.

Secondly...



See, that's my whole problem right there.

YOU think this thread is about MK9 Jade only.

Do you see what forum it's in? It's not in the "Mortal Kombat (2011)" forum, it's in the "Mortal Kombat Series General" forum.

That's the place where threads about the SERIES AS A WHOLE AND ALL GAMES IN IT go.

Do you see the topic creator's name? It doesn't say "Zmoke", does it? (I know you're going to say "it doesn't say RazorsEdge701 either", but I'm not the one trying to limit the damn subject, I'm the one defending the TC's original text and intent and saying "it's open to every version of the character")

Do you see ANYWHERE in the first post that refers to a specific game by name or number?

NO, you don't. The exact text is "Jade started out black, but now she is just slightly tanned. What is the Kommunity's view on that?"

Which means we can, or even NEED TO talk about the games where she "started out black", not just the one or ones where she is "slightly tanned" (which is inaccurate, by the way. Clearly he was referring to the noncanon render and not her canon in-game model which is quite dark brown)

And what page did you make your poll on? Was it the first page? Is your poll in the first post?

NOPE, you made your poll on page FIVE. There are FOUR AND A HALF pages of people talking about this subject before you decided to try and take over the direction of the discussion despite not being the topic creator or a moderator.

You CANNOT do that. You don't have the right. Nobody does but the TC and the MKO staff. And that why I'm arguing with you. And all of the content of the argument is relevant to and connected to the subject of this thread and posts made in it, which is why it would be inappropriate to make a new thread for the argument.

and as a corollary:



Yes it does, this whole argument started because you specifically instructed the people in this thread to talk only about the MK9 version because of your poll, because you said your poll was only about MK9 Jade. I don't know WHY you thought that your poll was somehow the new main topic of the thread, or that everyone would follow your request like you have any authority over the thread or the people in it, but if you scroll up the page a little, you can still SEE that that's what started this, because we're still on page 8, where it started. YOU tried to tell people what to do, and I got mad at the inappropriateness of that because YOU have no place to SAY "We are only talking about MK9 Jade."

Your exact words were "We are strictly polling Jade's race in her two MK9 story mode costumes". Like I said when the argument started, who the hell are you calling "we"? There IS no "we", "we" means multiple people, but you alone made the poll. You alone are the ONLY one who wanted to narrow the discussion to being only about the subject of your poll.

Your poll is, frankly, irrelevant to the actual subject of this thread. Nobody asked you to make it and very few people have voted in. It really pissed me off that you essentially tried to take over the thread and control the direction of the discussion, the exact same thing I spent pages yelling at Riyakou for doing.

I'm going to type this next line in all caps and bold, and I don't want you to interpret that as anger or shouting, I'm doing it so that it'll stick out more and you'll pay attention to it, because it's very important:

YOU DIDN'T MAKE THIS THREAD, SO YOU DON'T GET TO DECIDE WHICH JADE IT'S ABOUT.

Do you understand the problem now, and are you willing to settle it, or are you just going to be difficult and insist that none of what I've just said is true and prolong the argument? Because this has gone on too long. It NEEDS TO END.