Favourite Sorcerers
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Favourite Sorcerers
01/15/2008 10:56 AM EST
What is everyones favourite sorcerer?

And why...

confused
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/15/2008 11:42 AM EST
Quan Chi easily.

He's smarter, more methodical, better at manipulation, and more powerful.
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/15/2008 02:38 PM EST
It's tie between Shang Tsung and Quan Chi. Both of them are manipulative, powerful, and major heartthrobs (at least to me on the last one)
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/15/2008 02:51 PM EST
shang tsung.gotta love the soul-stealing and hes a classicwink
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/15/2008 03:43 PM EST
Shang Tsung rules. He is the most bad ass character in all MK rooster.
My favourite character EVER. Long haired, luxurious, materialistical, millenaire, greatly powerfull, "physical vampire" who sucks others to the bone (literally) to keep on living, cunning, inteligente, power hungry, wise, cold as a rock inside....


A great person to be friends with..
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/16/2008 12:18 PM EST
I love Shang Tsung. He’s just so damned sneaky! I never liked playing with him, but his attitude in the MKD opining cinematic is fantastic. I wish he still transformed in the newer games . . . hell when he Stoll peoples moves it was original.

Shang Tsung hands down.
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/16/2008 03:49 PM EST
Quan Chi is more known as a manipulator (his lackeys were Scorpion and Noob themselves), than Shang Tsung (I only know his lackey was Kenshi... and he didn't even treat to him as a true patron, with his pretending to be a poor old man, he just copied Jafar and Snow White's step-mother... duh). Quan Chi never lost a battle, omitting the case of his being "dragged" by Scorpion into the Netherealm. Quan Chi served an Elder God himself... Surely, many wouldn't give him the credit for how great his boss is but then, if the great Shinnok, the initiator and wielder of all evil powers liked a sorcerer and chose him for his deputy, then that sorcerer must be a SPECIALLY powerful and appealing one.


Now, Shang Tsung's pluses... Hmm.. Well, he is my favorite, but not for the sake of his moves or combos or whatever... He simply has the aura. He is a typical Gilgamesh-like hero, a protagonist per se, who had probably more knowledge on magic than any other mortal, but still was miserable and disdainful, searching for immortality and trying to avoid aging into a horrid, ill-looking centenarian and dying, and yet he could only regain his youth with the help of his master from whom he also tried to escape and who probably more despises than likes him. Shang Tsung is no yielder: he never stopped challenging Liu Kang and thus was actually NEVER actually DEFEATED, if you could get the point. There wasn't a moment in the game when it was bye for Shang Tsung, not even after Raiden's all-killing blast. He gets new body, re-establishes the position of Kahn's arch-sorcerer and once again works on how to overthrow Kahn's arrogant, despotic ass. Shang Tsung doesn't give a shit for the fact even gods are against his plans and in a one more graceful battle, he rushes with the other forces of evil, then notices a divine flame on the top, takes his long-yearned revenge on Quan Chi, Kahn and Liu Kang and heads for the top. When Liu Kang in a bitch-like, disgraceful, and totally anti-heroic manner hooks him from behind, Shang Tsung raises his mighty arm, screams and dies, but not with the death of a despicable villain but with the death of a hero who had been fighting all the time up to it. His scream made me sad and I believed he was going to perish for good.

Shang Tsung is my sorcerer of choice, because he has the charm, the more mythical storyline, more humanlike desires, more symbolics in him (we know Shang Tsung's iconic animal is the snake, the divine animal in many religions, but we don't know what Quan Chi worships and wears as his logo, save for the fact he is endowed in "dark" arts... huh? No more depth whatsoever?)

Shang Tsung is also an archetypical wizard and was therefore more suitable to me than frowned, pale baldy, Quan Chi. He has an other self, the one of an old man (Lo pan and the Queen from the "Snow White"), can turn into cobra (Jafar), is a shapeshifter (T-1000 from "Terminator"), has the bearing of a classic clever priest (Cardinal Richelieu) and so many more fact for which I thought of him as a unique blend of all the elegant, suave villains of the old time-movies I liked so much.


And my very first thread, since I have been a member of MKO, was about whether or not Tsung would return in MK8. I do hope he will.
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/17/2008 08:07 AM EST
shaggysorceror Wrote:


Heey, I was supposed to post that. heh.

Very good job.
==========

Mine is also Shang Tsung. He's the most complete bad guy, and the biggest example of a sorcerer we have. He's the most defined, so there's no confusion for what he is about, or came to do.

He's been the boss, a lacky, he's failed, and he's been triumphant. Arguably triumphant because, he is a necromancer = a soul snatcher. You could not loose all your battles and live as long as he has.

==========Quan Chi=======

Quan Chi hasn't been built up right as a calculated menace in my opinion. He more translates to a sorcerer "who happens to be" alot of the times. The subtlety is the fault. It's like he's not really evil, but if this is what he has to do, type of thing. I think it should be the other way around to work for him. Instead, he seems disconcerted or incapable of orchestrating, or actually manipulating massive amounts of the other characters. Even though I recognize what he has actually done.

He doesn't pass for a demon from another realm, he's not vile enough. The only reason he passes for a sorcerer, is because of the green aura and skulls. But then, the tattoos give that away. His origin should have been more contradictory as a result for me. Like Earth, or Edenia. Somewhere renowned as more peaceful. I feel like then, there would be more to find out about him.

Another problem I have with him is you don't actually see or hear him manipulating others too much. It's to where if you're supposed to be an evil, cynical demon from another realm, his radius of destruction is minimal and largely ineffective. I'm saying he could have been a human and done much worse...like Shang Tsung has.

I think he should either have more followers, and be sacrificing them much like what Shao Kahn does, but in a way that "sets people up for an ultimate demise". He's not be the "Brute", BUT he's supposed be the "Chess player". Or
He should have none at all, and sacrifice every person he comes into contact with for his own means. Instead, he's steadily stuck in the middle.

Quan Chi should have an attitude like John Travolta when he plays bad guy characters(3:30sec), or the diversity in the movie Face Off with Nick Cage. Say that because calculated bad guys are "clean", and Quan Chi just looks like the clean sorcerer to me. "Pale white with the bald head"? Looks like a Lex Luther type to me. Except Lex Luther is far more potent a bad guy, even without the sorcery.

==========Shinnok=======

He pisses me off thinking about it sometimes...He fails as even an Ex-Elder God. He fails to represent the power of a hierarchy. He fails in mind set, and method. He fails as the biggest supposed necromancer and most evil sorcerer abroad, even though in MKA his moves were better.... he was still eons off course. "wow".

Shinnok should be built up like a....hm......like an old Racsist Person(that potent, Southern,.....concentrated, "I been around here long enough to know" type, "There ain't shit new under the sun but you" type mind set, but without the out front attitude in most cases.) Not actually racist of course, but the word "racist" sets the tone and sensitivity I'm looking for out of Shinnok, and it's just not there at all.

Shinnok should give off the vibe like: "There's nothing you can do or say to him because he's so old. His "threat mechanism" would become apparent then, because his physic, and the way he should talk "down to everybody", deceives his age by a tremendous amount.

His speech patterns should not be calm and collected and peaceful, so much as they should be drawn back, but tempered. He should give off this "I am superior to you" vibe when he talks.

His demeanor and stance should look as if "You already lost". Or like, "I can't believe I'm wasting my time doing this". Regal, so like passive aggressive. He shouldn't really have a "stance per se, he should just kinda, stand straight up....probably with his nose in the air or something. Like he's just gonna dance you to death. Unorthodox, but superbly perfect should be his thing. Weapon Style? One handed, light sword. Something maybe a little heavier duty than Fencing is the only thing that fits.

He should probably be the guy who targets "pressure points" and does shit like the "Kiss of the Dragon (3:30sec in)" as a fatality. Something like that where the move seems effortless. It might even fit him to fight something like Jet Li. Right to the point, capitolizing on your mistakes the second you make them. Something like 1:53sec into this Vid of Jet Li in The One. Never mind the other stuff, just pay attention to the "style of counters & straights" in how the Jet Li in the grey shirt is doing it. Shinnok should fight that precise all the time.

I mean, he got banished from Heaven. That's like growing up, and living as a King, and then going to spit shine shoes to buy a half a meal for a family of four. How pissed off would you be?

At the same time, I his powers of sorcery and the necros, should be fantastic. Unheard of really. Ex God of Gods!?!

=======

Levels amongst the three should look something like this:

Shang Tsung: Can orchestrate fantastic fire attacks, and manipulate souls one at a time. A master of Chi, a Commander of spirits. Illusionist//Shape shifter.

Max potential - Master level chi fire attacks, permitting soul youth is not drained. Shape Shifting restricted to similar body structures. Portal access with code only.

-- He can play with chi fire at will, as long as he's at full strength, and doesn't need to consume any souls at the time. He can only shift into things that can stand upright. He needs "open sesame" code, and has to be told where portals are.

Quan Chi: Manipulator and commander of the Dead. Corpes, skeletons and the like. Animals and insects that just died. Can conduct portal jumps only permitting he has intel, an amulet, or practiced extreme concentration.

Max Potential - Animation of the inanimately predisposed. Power of persuasion and limited mind control. Master of necromancy. Can open pre-existing portals.

-- He's essentially a voodoo doctor that can portal jump when he wants to. He can't make a portal from nothing, but he has to know where they are or where, have that amulet, or concentrate alot to open to them. He might even have a pre-determined sense about them.

Shinnok: Chi Master to the infinite degree, Master and Partial Creator of the NetherRealm. Master of Necromancy to the infinite degree. MasterSorcerer to the infinite degree. Portal Creator. Dark Arts Master to the infinite degree. Master and Partial Martial Arts Creator. Master Spellbinder. Creator of the Amulet and Master Manipulator. Regeneration and Master illusionist.

Max Potential - Master of Persuasion and Influence.
Legion Control of the inhabitants of the NetherRealm. Heaven assault with legion. Cosmic Power, but to much lesser a degree since banishment from the pantheon of Heaven.

-- Virtually unstoppable. Greatest attribute is his weakness(??!). "He's not evil".confused Still maintains some God rites("walk on water"..ect). He can make you believe you are something else entirely. Can create and lock temporary portals and wormholes. Can persuade and or control the living or the dead.
ect ect ect ect ect ect ect...........

Get serious.
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/17/2008 10:36 AM EST

I want to back up my claim on Quan Chi a bit.

The first thing that struck me about Quan Chi was his presence. I liked Quan Chi's aura and mystique as the creepy, pastey albino. At all times with a look and slight smile as if he constanty knows more than everyone else. In the same vein as Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars or Scorpius from Farscape. THAT is how I see a sorceror. Someone who just has an unsettling presence where if he was standing next to you, you would just feel your skin crawl.

Another thing I love about Quan Chi is the subtlety of his actions. Predator, you call this a flaw....I call it a strength. He allows other people to "overshadow" him when he is the true threat in the shadows. I think it's better that his actions aren't overt. It's more deceptive. And, more importantly, he doesn't need to be. Best example is everything from Mythologies to MK1. When all was said and done, Quan Chi had Shinnok's Amulet, Scorpion as his personal weapon, and Noob Saibot as his slave. Win, win, win. Did Sub-Zero and Sareena beat Quan Chi in Mythologies, or was that part of his plan? In MK4, all eyes were on Shinnok when Quan Chi was the real threat. He doesn't need to overtly manipulate people with braod and blatant moves. He does simple subtle things and lets people fall into their own trap.

Shang Tsung may be the snake...but Quan Chi is the spider. As a matter of fact, look at Quan Chi's level in Deadly Alliance and Deception. There's a spider and web motif.

Another strength of Quan Chi is his patience. Most other villains we've seen in MK, the moment the got the Amulet, would've immediately made their move to conquer and probably would've failed miserably. Quan Chi though, continued to be a servant of Shinnok. Waiting until just the right moment to make his move. And this is where another advantage of lurking in the background helps him. Whether Shao Kahn won or lost...it served Quan Chi's purpose. Whether Shinnok won or lost...it served Quan Chi's purpose. His one miscalculation was he didn't count on his personal weapon turning on him.

I also love Quan Chi's rather nihilistic outlook. Look at Baraka's MK Gold ending. How happy Quan Chi was that "everyone in this forsaken realm is dead!" Unlike other villains who seek to rule...Quan Chi is content to be lord of a land of death and decay. Quan Chi is anti-life...which suits him as a necromancer. Another thing...and I'll admit, this might just be my personal interpretation...is how Quan Chi seems to take genuine pleasure in spreading misery. Unlike other villains who wreck lives to suit their ends...for Quan Chi, it's as much a hobby as it is a means.

Some people may prefer villains who have some sort of redeeming qualities....they were once good. Or they simply were corrupted by tragic flaws. But I like there to be at least one villain who epitomizes pure, irredeemable evil. And in Mortal Kombat, that to me is Quan Chi. Shinnok was once a god who was corrupted by his lust for power. Shao Kahn always had a soft spot for women. Shang Tsung's tragic flaw was his fear of aging and death. Tanya may be irredeemable, but she's not some mystical being...she's still human.

Quan Chi just is. Pure will.


Shang Tsung on the other hand never impressed me. I'll grant that the soul-steal is a cool and effective power, but aside from that, I never bought into Shang as genuine threat. In my eyes, he was easily overshadowed by Shao Kahn and overshadowed yet again by Quan Chi. Most of Shang Tsung's accomplishments were under orders or with the help of someone else. He's a disgruntled lieutenant with vague ambitions to take power for himself....that he almost never acts upon. Unlike Quan Chi, Shang Tsung has no plan for overthrowing his masters.

I see others talk about his aura and mystique as a sorceror, but personally, it never stood out to me. Like I said, Quan Chi is how I see a sorceror. Tsung just seems so typical to me.

I think the thing that's really missing with Shang Tsung for me is MK3. During MK3, the big end of the Outworld Saga, Shang Tsung SHOULD have done something major. I'm not sure what, but something. And I don't mean "But he helped resurrect Sindel"....I mean something that affected the outcome of the story. Something that should have firmly established that, although Shao Kahn is the master, Shang Tsung is still a major villainous threat. And he didn't. His MK3 bio & ending was basically a rehash of his MK2 bio & ending. And in Deadly Alliance we find out what he did during MK3: he fought on Kahn's side, in a general sort of way, and when Kahn lost...Tsung took his ball and went home. THIS is the "symbol of evil" for Mortal Kombat?


And Shinnok......I don't even count him as a sorceror. He's a god. A fallen Elder God is still a god. But anyway, Shinnok seemed like an imposing and ominous threat in Mythologies. But in MK4 they screwed him over by making him into a poor man's Shang Tsung....for whatever reason. He comes across much better in Armageddon though. I do agree with Predator that it would be cool if his personality emphasized his godliness. Have him look down upon all "lower life forms."
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/17/2008 07:08 PM EST
Whoever said Quan Chi never lost a battle, NOT true. He lost to the first subzero before Sareena threw him off the stage.
And Shang Tsung did die from Raiden's blast but was resurected by Kahn, or its the fact that because he works for kahn he automatically comes back.

Back on topic its hard to say who i like best between Quan Chi and Shang Tsung
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/18/2008 12:41 AM EST
Oh I love this part. Though I didn't aim to provoke, it helps me understand why people like, what they like. Makes this site fun.

Anyway, here we go.

XiahouDun84 Wrote:
The first thing that struck me about Quan Chi was his presence. I liked Quan Chi's aura and mystique as the creepy, pastey albino. At all times with a look and slight smile as if he constanty knows more than everyone else. In the same vein as Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars or Scorpius from Farscape. THAT is how I see a sorceror. Someone who just has an unsettling presence where if he was standing next to you, you would just feel your skin crawl.


*Yahoo Image Search*

1. Emperor Palpatine.


2. Scorpius.


Oh....okay. lol Yea, I actually do the search if I don't know.

Quan Chi picture, just for good measure:


It seems my sorcerer "looks" different. If we did a mix between the fantasy of Boris(1) Vallejo(2), and Warlock. Warlock being the prominent presence (because I'm older now, things are interpreted more literal) then you'd have something like my ideal sorcerer. I am still able to enjoy the Dumbledores, and the Gandalfs too though, as a result.

I see what you mean anyway. That brings up how I feel about "levels" of sorcery too though. Your examples show what the difference between Shang Tsung, Quan Chi, and Shinnok should obviously look like. Old most powerful wizard vs the new most powerful warlock.

XiahouDun84 Wrote:
Another thing I love about Quan Chi is the subtlety of his actions. Predator, you call this a flaw....I call it a strength. He allows other people to "overshadow" him when he is the true threat in the shadows. I think it's better that his actions aren't overt. It's more deceptive. And, more importantly, he doesn't need to be. Best example is everything from Mythologies to MK1. When all was said and done, Quan Chi had Shinnok's Amulet, Scorpion as his personal weapon, and Noob Saibot as his slave. Win, win, win. Did Sub-Zero and Sareena beat Quan Chi in Mythologies, or was that part of his plan? In MK4, all eyes were on Shinnok when Quan Chi was the real threat. He doesn't need to overtly manipulate people with braod and blatant moves. He does simple subtle things and lets people fall into their own trap.



I see your point here too, BUT(hehe), subtlety doesn't have to be less displayed..imO. I wanna see how he is manipulating. I wanna see him set the trap, or spin the web and the end result. Kinda like what they did with the opening of MkDa. Except, it wasn't just him there, and therefor, for me, didn't establish completely, his own motivations and process. Nor did it establish him as a definitive leader in that situation. Like he dumbed himself down for the sake of the mission when he could have just as easily, deceptively employed the lesser sorcerer. (if you're gonna play the rear, play the rear. If you're gonna get physically involved, go hard and prove you're the best) It's like he doesn't know what his strong points are. "Know your roll" or whatever...

I see that he started that sequence of events, and throughout MkD, I see how he would have had it end. But in this case, it seemed more circumstantial than intentional that the fight between Quan & Shang ended up happening.

Besides that, they kept on with the multiple "possibility endings" in the game between the two characters. In one, Shang "won" in the other Quan "won". For me, all that does is blur the line that should distinguish Quan Chi as the more calculating, and more powerful. Shang Tsung should be (yet again) a subordinate to (then) Quan Chi. He should be dwarfed by Quan Chi and he's not.
There's nothing there other than I guess, purity of breed from the NetherRealm, that makes him "better" than Shang as an evil force. And since that's my opinionated inference, I weigh the traits of each character and Shang Tsung gains the most from that comparison.

====
So, what more could I want? Well, a thought process, or a calculation is more effectively received when it's visualized somehow, in my opinion. I'm saying I can't feel him calculating just by reading it. Not only that, they haven't written him like he's conversating or explaining his thoughts ("this is what should happen if I"...). They write him like he's providing information("In the bible it says"...).

It's a difference between the series Dexter(with a lot of dialog that gives insight into the mind of the killer. Himself talkin, from a first person p.o.v.) and like, Murder She Wrote or Law and Orders' dialog. Which happens alot less in those shows. We watch the story in L&O and in M.S.W., much like we can play out the characters journey to the end in MK. I want to get in the head of our calculated bad guys, and that aint happening.

You almost never see or understand what the "bad-guy" is doing. Which is fine, of course because that's the natural order of things. The thing for me in that case, is being able to relate to him methodically. I am a very elaborate thinker and dreamer so, the entertainment factor comes into play for me if I can see if we're on the same page(lol, which is a very dark place to want entertainment about in the first place). Then, when there is a twists coming from a character like that, it intrigues and engages me more.

Knowing everything about a character takes nothing away from him to me. It adds to them because "you never know what a person is thinking" anyway...


XiahouDun84 Wrote:
Shang Tsung may be the snake...but Quan Chi is the spider. As a matter of fact, look at Quan Chi's level in Deadly Alliance and Deception. There's a spider and web motif.


Got that loud and clear from the start about his arena. So I agree with no contest.

XiahouDun84 Wrote:
Another strength of Quan Chi is his patience. Most other villains we've seen in MK, the moment the got the Amulet, would've immediately made their move to conquer and probably would've failed miserably. Quan Chi though, continued to be a servant of Shinnok. Waiting until just the right moment to make his move. And this is where another advantage of lurking in the background helps him. Whether Shao Kahn won or lost...it served Quan Chi's purpose. Whether Shinnok won or lost...it served Quan Chi's purpose. His one miscalculation was he didn't count on his personal weapon turning on him.


I get that, and I love it when this kind of character allows his boss to walk into a trap without knowing who set the thing(Quan Chi Mk4 vs Shinnok). By then it's far too late anyway.

Again though, I fail to see him as the conductor of coincidence, irony, or false serendipity. Something I think calculators, good or evil are capable of showing and or explaining in great detail.

Comes out looking like a mute, who is "a builder". Or someone savvy with words, who "employs and delegates alot". Both are excellent with mathematics usually though.

XiahouDun84 Wrote:
I also love Quan Chi's rather nihilistic outlook. Look at Baraka's MK Gold ending. How happy Quan Chi was that "everyone in this forsaken realm is dead!" Unlike other villains who seek to rule...Quan Chi is content to be lord of a land of death and decay. Quan Chi is anti-life...which suits him as a necromancer. Another thing...and I'll admit, this might just be my personal interpretation...is how Quan Chi seems to take genuine pleasure in spreading misery. Unlike other villains who wreck lives to suit their ends...for Quan Chi, it's as much a hobby as it is a means.

Some people may prefer villains who have some sort of redeeming qualities....they were once good. Or they simply were corrupted by tragic flaws. But I like there to be at least one villain who epitomizes pure, irredeemable evil. And in Mortal Kombat, that to me is Quan Chi. Shinnok was once a god who was corrupted by his lust for power. Shao Kahn always had a soft spot for women. Shang Tsung's tragic flaw was his fear of aging and death. Tanya may be irredeemable, but she's not some mystical being...she's still human.

Quan Chi just is. Pure will.


Now, I can honestly say I don't understand how that mentality works, or how it could be better translated//displayed. Ultimately that mentality = self destruction....I guess if we consider that very good point you made about him reaping the benefits of necromancy, he....ahhhh I get it. nm.

1. Content with everything around him suffering or dieing off + Necromancy + Ultimate Power search i.e. the amulet.

As is he can't control anything to the absolute extent, but if that^ came true...alright, I get it. Sometimes I just need to talk myself through a thing. lol

XiahouDun84 Wrote:
Shang Tsung on the other hand never impressed me. I'll grant that the soul-steal is a cool and effective power, but aside from that, I never bought into Shang as genuine threat. In my eyes, he was easily overshadowed by Shao Kahn and overshadowed yet again by Quan Chi. Most of Shang Tsung's accomplishments were under orders or with the help of someone else. He's a disgruntled lieutenant with vague ambitions to take power for himself....that he almost never acts upon. Unlike Quan Chi, Shang Tsung has no plan for overthrowing his masters.

I see others talk about his aura and mystique as a sorceror, but personally, it never stood out to me. Like I said, Quan Chi is how I see a sorceror. Tsung just seems so typical to me.


Haha, yep. He's like that guy who lies about all the girls he's slept with, but no matter what, he never gets caught by the ones he's hurt. Guys like that in real life, have alot of charisma, they usually are the "in crowd" and have money ect...Then, even though everyone knows that's his m.o., you gotta be careful around him cuz now, he's too powerful to just kill off.

"Love to Hate"..."Snake"

XiahouDun84 Wrote:
I think the thing that's really missing with Shang Tsung for me is MK3. During MK3, the big end of the Outworld Saga, Shang Tsung SHOULD have done something major. I'm not sure what, but something. And I don't mean "But he helped resurrect Sindel"....I mean something that affected the outcome of the story. Something that should have firmly established that, although Shao Kahn is the master, Shang Tsung is still a major villainous threat. And he didn't. His MK3 bio & ending was basically a rehash of his MK2 bio & ending. And in Deadly Alliance we find out what he did during MK3: he fought on Kahn's side, in a general sort of way, and when Kahn lost...Tsung took his ball and went home. THIS is the "symbol of evil" for Mortal Kombat?


I think we get that establishment through the "masters" that employ Shang. I think that every time they delegate a responsibility to Shang Tsung, they lessen the "Ultimate Power" factor that they are supposed to be feared for themselves. They remain stagnate, and Shang Tsung gets all the face time experience that he needs anyway, and action.

An example of this is in the opener of MkDa: Shang Tsung definitely killed Liu Kang, and that's big business with or without help. Another really good example is the MkD intro. Shang Tsung knocks Raiden off his feet twice. And performs that fantastic Serpent fatality move to finish.

Quan Chi threw a couple of skulls. *shrugs* That would be cool if we could visualize what else he's capable of out front. He's not visually, physically working. But this is Mortal Kombat. But at the same time, they're not displaying his mental capacity without him under minding, and humbling himself constantly. That's not a quality that leaders continually tolerate. That's not patience when it gets to that point....especially powerful sorcerers imo. That's a quality of a powerful, yet lonely, lacky. Too, throughout MK, people know about him by now, burning bridges and playing in the shadows will force his hand at some point. For good and evil sides of the spectrum.
============
I also don't think that Shang ever really needs to be the "story crippler" in order represent Mortal Kombats "evil". All he has to do to maintain that is keep stinging the pressure points like the end results of the fights with Liu Kang and Raiden. The most aggravating henchmen to get rid of, are the strong secondary in power to the "master henchmen". They always deal the fatal blows to the "heros" and are remembered long after their master has been defeated. Works like a martyr and his subordinate that lives on to continue his work.

I think that the typical interpretations of an "evil suspect" still haven't changed for people, so he still fits the bill more than Quan Chi. That's for looks alone though.

Power-wise, snakes have a greater fear factor than spiders, and are still tied to peoples spiritual//religious discomfort. So a man who can control a soul contrived snake, could still have a more prominent effect on peoples psyche. Spiders are more creepy even though their probably in the same "creepy-factor-category". For instance, Arachnophobia vs Anaconda. Or, being bitten vs being totally eaten alive. Spiders don't swallow you whole just yet. Just saying there's a slightly different vibe about the two.


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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/20/2008 08:53 PM EST
And by the way Shao Kahn>>> Quan Chi.

Chi might be more scheming and treacherous by Kahn is more powerful and would destroy the sorcerer.
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/21/2008 01:47 AM EST
Shang Tsung. He has been the coolest villain character right from MK:1. He is the epitome of cunning and suaveness, which is shown by his preference for lavish parties, grand palaces, and stylish clothing.

He is a really powerful sorcerer, and a good fighter.

All in all, I would consider him very cool.
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/24/2008 05:56 AM EST
Shang Tsung

Maddest cunt

wink
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/31/2008 04:03 PM EST
My favorite sorcerer is Quan chi.He is major cool.wow
I will not fail you master Raiden.
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
02/04/2008 10:04 PM EST
Quan Chi is my favorite, because that character looks intimidating. Quan Chi's voice seperates himself from the the rest by a miles too.
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
02/08/2008 12:02 AM EST
ThePredator151 Wrote:
Now, I can honestly say I don't understand how that mentality works, or how it could be better translated//displayed. Ultimately that mentality = self destruction....I guess if we consider that very good point you made about him reaping the benefits of necromancy, he....ahhhh I get it. nm.

That wasn't exactly my point.

Quan Chi is pure ambition driven to a nihilistic extreme. He has a drive for power and would be content if every other person in existence died for him to get it.

I see it as kind of a variation of the "the man with nothing to lose is the man to fear." Quan Chi has no qualms with mass genocide to achieve his own satisfaction. Like for instance, look at Shao Kahn's Armageddon ending. Once he had nothing left to conquer, he went mad. Quan Chi wouldn't. Like I said, he'd be just as content if all other life ended.

His being a Necromancer and gaining power from death is another decay, but my point was, I like Quan Chi's unrestrained drive to himself and nothing else.


ThePredator151 Wrote:
Haha, yep. He's like that guy who lies about all the girls he's slept with, but no matter what, he never gets caught by the ones he's hurt. Guys like that in real life, have alot of charisma, they usually are the "in crowd" and have money ect...Then, even though everyone knows that's his m.o., you gotta be careful around him cuz now, he's too powerful to just kill off.

"Love to Hate"..."Snake"

That doesn't really impress me in a villain.


ThePredator151 Wrote:
Another really good example is the MkD intro. Shang Tsung knocks Raiden off his feet twice. And performs that fantastic Serpent fatality move to finish.

Quan Chi threw a couple of skulls. *shrugs*

I think you should watch the MK:D intro again.

Quan Chi actually faired better against Raiden than Tsung did. Knocking Raiden off his feet once and doing the fire serpent move was all he did. Otherwise, Tsung spent the majority of the fight on his back.


ThePredator151 Wrote:
XiahouDun84 Wrote:
I think the thing that's really missing with Shang Tsung for me is MK3. During MK3, the big end of the Outworld Saga, Shang Tsung SHOULD have done something major. I'm not sure what, but something. And I don't mean "But he helped resurrect Sindel"....I mean something that affected the outcome of the story. Something that should have firmly established that, although Shao Kahn is the master, Shang Tsung is still a major villainous threat. And he didn't. His MK3 bio & ending was basically a rehash of his MK2 bio & ending. And in Deadly Alliance we find out what he did during MK3: he fought on Kahn's side, in a general sort of way, and when Kahn lost...Tsung took his ball and went home. THIS is the "symbol of evil" for Mortal Kombat?

I think we get that establishment through the "masters" that employ Shang. I think that every time they delegate a responsibility to Shang Tsung, they lessen the "Ultimate Power" factor that they are supposed to be feared for themselves. They remain stagnate, and Shang Tsung gets all the face time experience that he needs anyway, and action.

I also don't think that Shang ever really needs to be the "story crippler" in order represent Mortal Kombats "evil". All he has to do to maintain that is keep stinging the pressure points like the end results of the fights with Liu Kang and Raiden. The most aggravating henchmen to get rid of, are the strong secondary in power to the "master henchmen". They always deal the fatal blows to the "heros" and are remembered long after their master has been defeated. Works like a martyr and his subordinate that lives on to continue his work.

I think you misunderstood my point.

I'll use Superman as an example.
It's well estabslished that Lex Luthor is Superman's #1 enemy. No matter what, it always comes back to Superman against Lex Luthor. Now say they were to do a big epic, climactic storyline involving Darkseid, but they had Luthor involved. Before the end of the story, something would've happened or Luthor would've done something crucial to remind/prove that, even though Darkseid was the "big bad," Lex Luthor is and always will be Superman's #1 enemy. That no matter what, Lex Luthor is the villain to watch.

And that to me is what's missing from Shang Tsung. We did get something like that in the Armageddon intro...with it being Shang Tsung who reaches the top of the pyramid over all others....but, it's too late in the game for me. I just don't buy him as the "symbol of evil" and this significant defining villain because, from where I'm standing, I have no real reason to. He's an upper-level henchman. As you said, a "master henchman." That doesn't impress me.

You mention not really buying Quan Chi's cunning and manipulation because we don't see enough of it.....fair enough, but it's still more than we've seen from Shang Tsung.


ThePredator151 Wrote:
Power-wise, snakes have a greater fear factor than spiders, and are still tied to peoples spiritual//religious discomfort. So a man who can control a soul contrived snake, could still have a more prominent effect on peoples psyche. Spiders are more creepy even though their probably in the same "creepy-factor-category". For instance, Arachnophobia vs Anaconda. Or, being bitten vs being totally eaten alive. Spiders don't swallow you whole just yet. Just saying there's a slightly different vibe about the two.

I disagree here...but I don't think you can really measure that sort of thing. I know plenty of people who'd rather deal with snakes than spiders.
And actually, snakes aren't feared for their ability to eat people whole....regardless of a ridiculous movie.
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
02/09/2008 04:04 PM EST
Well In my opinion I think Quan-Chi is the supreme sorcerer. And in the prospect that he doesn't have to rely on souls for his main magic power. The only time he should ever be in distress is when he goes deep into the netherrealm because his magical sources are practically useless; this would also when he would be at his most vulnerable.


Out of soul steal and the skull thing Quan-Chi does I would pick the skull as I'd imagine it would inflict more pain...I would have gone for the soul steal move but it kills them (Not in actual gameplay but in story) it would be better if he kept the souls for health and possessed the bodies with more powerful souls and making them his minions.
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
02/12/2008 10:15 AM EST
personally i like shang since he's the first tocome out and like most ppl have said hes a sneaky mother fucker, id say hes more manipulative in that he can freakin turn into ppl and convonce others by just looking like a person they trust IE he turned into raiden in shaolin monks made them do his dirty work for him. and shangs soul stealing i love id always try to do it when i first got the game even if iut made me lose i just wanted to see it. to add quan chi can only manipulate ppl if ppl dont kniow who he is and shang could give a shit since he shape shifts

quan chi is good i mean ill admit hes more powerful and creepy looking but idk i just doint like him as much i guess prob ably cause i was introduced to shang first
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/04/2016 01:57 PM EST
Sorcerers in MK have different capabilities, although it's still conceded as sorcery. It's different to Quan Chi who's magic was more dark and occult. Besides he had to have been a true worker of miracles to avoid capture from corrivals such as Scorpion and Skarlet. 65% was taught to Shang Tsung so he's more commonly unnatural in standard, although still artful. Another one was like Delia who knows magical practices which involved mental prescience. I don't class Shinnok or Shao Kahn as sorcerers, even if they did instruct wizardry. Shang Tsung, Quan Chi and 'Flame lady' Delia were the only real warlock sorcerers to me because of their rarity.
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
01/08/2016 07:46 AM EST
Not all sorcery is used for bad purposes. Look at Delia, her sorcery was unique because it originated from a place that wasn't demonic.
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
02/11/2016 06:32 PM EST
Quan Chi. Tsung can go fuck himself.
why
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
02/21/2016 01:10 PM EST
Quan chi. I agree what XiahouDun84 said. Very solid points.
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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
04/16/2019 03:24 PM EST
04/30/2019 06:03 PM EST

Quan Chi. I hate his personality,but I like his design and moveset and he doesn't need to morph into other kombatants to put out a fight. Looking at you Shang Tsung.

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RE: Favourite Sorcerers
04/17/2019 02:24 PM EST
04/18/2019 11:21 AM EST

Would like to know who 'the first sorcerers' are that Ermac spoke of in the Netherrealm (in MKD's konquest). There's obviously more mages just not sure how many and what exact purpose they'd serve. Possible extinction or timeline matters could come in to it.

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