dont let this thread die!

lol, the site has been so busy that trying to post is almost impossible. Anyways, the promised big update seems to be good, it'll answer more gameplay questions provided more gameplay stuff comes out.

Bad news: Sub-Zero's damage indeed hasn't been changed. However, several stances have obviously been touched up, mainly old stances that have actually been modified that I've seen is Kenshi's sword stance which has fast vertical swings to boot now.

Anyways, onto the good news. Throws have been shown in MKD, I'm not sure they're highs yet, but they look like highs and are animated VERY well compared to MKDA's throws by a hundred times.
What does everyone think of Noob-Smoke? By far the most interesting new gameplay addition by far.

I'd rather have noob and smoke be 2 separate fighters, but they do look awesome fighting as a tag team.


Like I posted in another thread, I'd rather have the tag team idea be left for a character similar to Ermac that is made up of various warriors.

Or have some character be possessed or fused together, something like that.

To have tag style moves, this fighter might be able to go out of body so he can become 2 fighters and be able to do the moves that Noob Smoke have.

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On a side note, the breakers still look pretty disappointing.

They should have put a LOT more though in to that.

I mean, why the hell does every fighter even have the same attack for the breaker.

That's one of those things that should not happen. Copy and paste is bad, it looks cheap, slapped together and doesn't make sense with the individual styles.

Come on Ed, I know you can do better than that.

I really don't like how the MK team seems to be slacking on the fighting engine, the most important part of a fighting game.


The problem is highly visible, like water in the sea. It's so obvious, but it's still ignored.

It's frustrating

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Here is an idea for improving on the breakers and reversals.

If you have the block and counter attacks, have the counter attack be different for every style. Also you could go in to more detail by having a different counter attack come out depending on whether you blocked using your left or right arm.

The breaker can be a single hit, small auto combo, throw, bone breaker, sway, side step, shove, hard block that hurts the opponent, chain throw, combo starter, stun hit, fire ball, teleport, juggle hit, a special fireball just for the breaker...........etc.

Keep it creative and fresh.

Don't just use the same attack for every fighter.

Don't have air breakers, instead change the juggle system so you don't have to worry so much about being juggled in to a death trap. A VF4 style juggle system would be good for that.

In adition to breakers, there could be reversals like in VF4, Tekken Tag and DOA3.

Breakers and reversals need a flinch animation so there is a risk to trying them. They should NOT be limited in how many times you can use them at all.

If you have breakers and reversals while being hit like in DOA3, have it be in such a way that it's not super easy and still not limited.

For example to break Scorpion's 2,2,1. First of all, the 2,2,1 combo needs a block point which would be on the 3rd attack = (1).

You can hold block while being hit by the combo and when the (1) hit comes out, you will automatically block it.

If you tap Blk when the (1) comes out, you will do a parry.

The parry will NOT stop the combo. It would work the same as the parry in Street Fighter 3 3rd strike. Only that it's more of a linkable block. If you block with your left, you can tap 2 to attack, if you block with your right, you can tap 1, but you need to do it very quick.

Some block animations might have 2 attack link options like if you do an outside block, you can tap 2 to punch, 3 to kick, 2+4 or the special button to do a throw.

This could be made easier to recognize by a different color flash when you parry. The flash could be Red or yellow

Something like this would be better and still be pretty easy to use.

Tap Block to parry, if you see a Red spark tap 1, if you see a yellow spark tap 2.

To do the other attacks like 3 or 4, you could have more color sparks that go with the controler like:

Blue = 1
Yellow = 2
Green = 3
Red = 4

You might use the lights by the life bar for this too, or whatever works best.

tapping any of these buttons could result in a number of different types of attacks, not just a punch or a kick.

Anyway, this is just something that came off the top of my head, but you get the idea.

Something with a little more spice and personality that requres a bit of skill and training but is still not too hard to use on call.

Yeah, a real system instead of a bandaid is needed for MK defense. Like you said, I was horrified when I saw the breaker drop the guy from the air glitchlike and immediately made him punch a breaker, although I'm sure they're trying to work that one out based on the previous announcement.

Throws are animated well so far, but as to what their uses are Im still not sure since the opponents were not blocking or crouching when the throw was executed.

Shujinko has a launch throw, seems a lot better than Drahmin's my far and gives him a normal launch height juggle.

The breaker system right now is very subjective, I keep thinking of its uses and to me, it just seems like an unwell thought out procedure like you pointed out Bleed. Instead of a good defensive system, both players get 3 times to break out of a combo. Which requires no skill, execution, timing at all. What's worse is you can't mis-break or be punished for it, so 3 breaks are basically guranteed per battle, but if that were so, why put breakers in the first place? I suppose getting out of dial-a-combos is still a blessing, but if both can get out at the same degree, it doesn't seem like combat leverage to me. But hey, breaker and then 50/50 mixup so you can win works I suppose, but everyone knows that the breakers will probably be whored up at the end of a round until people are out. =P

A good defensive system like the one you wrote that required timing and knowledge would be good Bleed, but I wonder if the MK team feels they do not need a defensive system now that they have placed in the universal breaker.

Noob Smoke is very interesting, mainly for combo potential, although I agree that their pairing is odd and that its well.. kinda random just to make only two of the characters paired and all of that. I mean if they want to make it a tag game, they should. If they don't, then they shouldn't have exceptions. But we'll have to see how it all works out with those two.

What is know about the Juggle system? Its still the same?

The juggle system looks exactly the same so far.

Breaker=knockdown?

I'd would have rather seen boon and his boys sub in the "push" for the breaker so I can rush shit down, but a KNOCKDOWN?

Jesus. Whatever, I found out that SRK's Mr. Wizard is working on a strat guide for MK:D so I guess we can look for some in depth breakdowns of the system.

He is a wizard after all.

I still say that one of the main problems in Mortal Kombat lately is the overuse of buttons.

Every other game is decreasing the amount of buttons that they have, why does MK need 7 buttons?

The max that they need is 5, and that should be it.

The Block button has to stay, otherwise, its not Mortal Kombat.

I think that they should return to the 5 button set up at least...

High and Low Punch and Kick.

This is the only 3d fighting game with no diagonals!

So of course the movement and move options are severely limited.

Get rid of the Style change button, and make the change a motion with button presses, different for each character.

Get rid of the special move button. Make that a motion.

This thread must be seen by more people!

Damn it, I leave to go down the shore for a few days and come back to see I missed everything. Haven't watched any of the new footage yet but based on what's being said here, things are looking as expected.


Edit: I saw the movies and I must say that I'm impressed with what they did with some things. The throw animations are done very nice as well as the various get up after a round and victory poses. As for the breakers, whatever, I really don't know. Maybe this game will at least look polished as opposed to the recycled animations and voice clips present in DA.

I Care a lot about the Juggle system! As HD Tran posted in Page 1, is looks very shitty to see everyone doing the same Juggle combo after a launcher. Worst even! Every Jugle combo consist of :

First Launcher

Second Launcher or single Juggle hit with fast recovery

Longest Chain before the opponents touch the ground

Yeah! dont let this thread die!

I think I may be the only one on this thread that kinda likes the breaker system (which by the way is NOT only done on block, as seen in the Dairou Scorpion vid). Yes, it is pretty easy to do (forward and block in the middle of a combo is it?) but you do only get three (which htran is right..people WILL whore them up till the end). However, from what I have seen a majority of players really don't use complex breakers all that much. Having a simplified version with only three uses is fine by me. This method will at least keep the combo hogs at bay for at least 3 times, and will force good players to be a little more creative in fighting against not-so-good players. I really think it is a good system to keep it simplified for a bit of balance between players. Two things I do NOT like though: the breakers do no damage, and the breakers seem to be the same. Copy catting moves, and especially victory stances, have ALWAYS been my pet peeve.

What do people think about the issues I raised in relation to the amount of buttons?

SEVEN buttons for a fighting game is just rediculous...

Thats one more than Street Fighter!

Tony: Yeah the throws look really good.

Hanzo: Juggling needs to be done a lot better, but it looks exactly the same right now. Launch into a second launch into a string. There are some few exceptions with Drahmin, Kenshi, etc. of course. With the removal of Neijin, I really wonder if Subby can get good damage.

Skavin: The problem with the breaker system mainly is that the breaker system gives both players 3 breaks without any sacrifice other than losing 1 break. This gives both players the same defensive leverage, thus not giving you any advantage really.

In 2d you sacrifice offense to do defense with alpha counters, KoF's CD, Guilty Gear's f+P+K or using a defensive burst instead of an offensive one. But in MKD, you don't. In other 3d fighters will real reversal/parry/counter,etc. systems, it's based a lot on skillful prediction, whereas MK is just a free instant break.

So you have 3 breaks, that don't need to be skillfully used, that can only be used the way that it was implemented. If both people can break 3 combos at the same degree; not differentiated by use (skill/prediction) or playstyle (offensive/defense), then it doesn't give either player any real advantage, just prolongs what MKDA basically is.

I don't see how it'll change anyone's playstyle except make everyone do their biggest combo 3 more times per match.

Immortal: The buttons preferably should be changed for sure Immortal.

I wish they had given the breaker different properties per character, ie: Sub-Zero's breaker would grab and freeze to oponent offering stun time to deliver retaliation, Ermac's could levitate the opponent offering a short juggle, Kabal's could be his dash offering a short combo option, Scorpion would have his Hapkido rising kick for a short juggle or that flaming flip he does ect.

The point I'm trying to make is these moves already exist in the game and could be utilized to personalize the breaker per character and offer up some intersting opportunities for a successful breaker. These could easily be programeed into the system with a few lines of code. When you think about it, these breakers would be similar to an Alpha counter from Street fighter Alpha 2 and 3 seeing as how capcom simply used existing frames of animation for their counters .

It would also influence your character choice based on your gameplay method and style.
Take care guys.

mastermalone: Yeah it would help a lot with character individualism and playstyle.

Instead, we have MKDA archetypes:
The Jabber, fast and safe jabs into full string.

The safe and unsafe 50/50 mixup character.

The broken.

The crappy.

Oh well, at least we now have the defensive with Subby's Ice Clone and hopefully some teleportation tricks and such will break up some of the monotany.

HDTran Wrote: mastermalone: Yeah it would help a lot with character individualism and playstyle. Instead, we have MKDA archetypes: The Jabber, fast and safe jabs into full string. The safe and unsafe 50/50 mixup character. The broken. The crappy. Oh well, at least we now have the defensive with Subby's Ice Clone and hopefully some teleportation tricks and such will break up some of the monotany.

Sad, but true. Lets hope we hear some more encouraging news within the next couple of weeks regarding these breakers. I want to hear that the breakers that we've witnessed in these videos were just prototypes used to test the collision detection and that more unique counters have been implemented. Why couln't we have just received a parry, or maybe both the breaker and the paryy?

Of course the parry would require more precise timing to balance it out as seen in Streetfighter 3. Hell, I'd even be happy if a few characters had a special counter that required a joystick and button combination. Well HD we can only wait and see what happens from here.

Take care

Hey, I just took a look at that Midway Gamers Day video again and I noticed that durring the Baraka vs Mileena fight, Mileena performed a ducking side step and Baraka did not track her. Maybe the UT has been removed. Just an obsevation.

Take care

I'd like to see many different types of counters parries and reversals for individual fighters.

Some can have a regular catch style counter, a parry, an auto counter stance, moves with auto parries, super armor moves, auto counter on counter hit, counters that make use of the special abilities.......etc......


there's a lot of stuff they could do to make the fights more interesting.

No more copy and paste please...

The throws look great so far, I would like for them to be like the ones in Tao Feng. Those have to be some of the koolest throws I've seen in a fighting game.

To say something positive, everything else about this game looks fantastic IMO.

It's just the fighting that needs work.

Good news, everyone. After watching the Kobra vs. Scorpion vid recently posted, it looks like throws are no longer blockable. What's weird though is that it also looks like the combo breakers can be used to break throws. I think this is a glitch of sorts since Scorpion's throw registers as a three hit combo in the game.

In the new Kobra v. Scorp vid at 1:34, does scorp go for a throw after hell fire, but ends up being escaped? I can't tell because there seams to be frame loss in the video and what not, but it looks that way. Not sure if that's what TTT was talking about, but if someone could confirm, that would be great.

That break durring a throw was sweet, lol. I actually wouldn't mind it. Funny, I seam to be enjoying the game more and more as I see more gameplay footage. I still think it's going to be shit, but not as bad as had hoped...er, expected. Yeah, that's the word, lol.

Oh, and HOLY SHIT!!! Am I seeing some sort of attempt at guard stun, or some sort of guard properties? Subs ice pushed hells back and certain branches seam to push back now, too. WOOT!!

I don't know, but doing frame by frame the lunging animation that Scorp does after the hellfire is extremely similar, if not identical, to the lunging animation he does when actually grabbing someone. The thing is though, it's hard to say since if it is a throw break there isn't really any indication that it happened. Scorpion just starts taking hits from Kobra without any real graphical representation of the broken throw. The throw I was reffering to was the first throw of the video when it's clear that Kobra was blocking when he got grabbed. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the grapple system was cleaned up since there isn't a special move button anymore. The throws can't be the same as they were in DA because of that.

although were were some EXCELLENT points brought up about gameplay shortcomings in this thread, you have to admit that if UT is removed, throws are breakable/reversable/unblockable, and devensive special moves are implemented, the game will be that much closer to being the best overall 3D fighter out there. if the gameplay is brought up to par with the competition, then MK D may be considered one of the best fighters ever.

I don't doubt that. MK has everything plus some in the way of characters, mythos, cosmetics and extras. Add in a great fighting engine and it's easily one of the best.