J_A_M Wrote: MK1 - Johnny Cage alway the lame character MK2 - Baraka MK3 - Shang Tsung UMK3 - sheeva MK4 - kitana,kai MK:DA - kitana

I was just doing my routine search for UMK3 stuff on here and I wanted to comment on this thread.

First of all, you will not find any place on the planet thats better than Chicago at UMK3. Plain and simple. WaveNet made the game grow far and beyond areas that did not have it. Think about it guys: you network all of the arcades in the home of mortal, and plot the best players in the world against each other for a few years and you get STELLAR developments in competition. Places that did not have this suffer. And it shows.

Second, we all need to give props to Matt for keeping the dream alive. Hes been doing a lot of communication with you guys, despite his tactic (drama!!! hehe). I still believe UMK3 is better than the rest of the fighters out today and you all should give it a shot again. Typical capcom games are defensive priority struggles. UMK3, when played at its capacity, is too fast for most people. It requires precise timing, offensive tactics, and when skill is applied, LOTS of damage is done. All of this to me, makes a good fighting game.

and for the topic: low tiers.

MK1: Kano, MK2: Reptile, MK3: Sheeva, UMK3: Cyrax

anyways, back to the searches for me.

-Lex

Drama is the best way to get peoples' attention =) I still hope to take part in many UMK3 tournys to come, I'm mad I didn't get to go to MWC, the only thing preventing me was a wrestling show that didn't happen. We all showed up, set up the ring, and two fans showed up, it was crap. Prophet DreemerNJ and I will have an arcade cabinet with mamemore82 (or whatever current mame is out since it runs UMK3 perfectly) running games sometimes in the future, with flawless sticks and what not, and whatever method people prefer to use for playing, and will probably lug the meat of it with us to tournys because there are literally no acceptable UMK3 cabinets anywhere. Still looking forward to playing you Lex, that is if you're willing to come out of retirement for it.

Matt

MK1: Johnny Cage

MK2: Kitana

MK3: Sektor

UMK3: Ermac

MK4/Gold: Reptile

MK5: Drahmin

MK6: ?????????

What is that a list of?

Slugunner1023 Wrote: MK1: Johnny Cage MK2: Kitana MK3: Sektor UMK3: Ermac MK4/Gold: Reptile MK5: Drahmin MK6: ?????????

ha ha

wow..how the hell did i miss this thread back in april??? lol well since it has poped up..
low tiers

mk1-kano
mk2-reptile..but if used right he can actually be real cheap w/ that acid spit..
mk3/umk3-ill go w/ what mk2kungbroken said hes the umk3 PRO!!! shang tsung
mk4-shinnok..for the same reason as shang in umk3.
mkda-i can not say..i didnt play vs any good players.. but i wil definatly say that kitana and kung lao r not the low tiers in that game..


top tier
mk1 sadly sonya
mk2 mileena..but kung lao can give her a real good fight!!!
mk3/umk3-kabal
mk4-tanya,reiko
mk gold-tanya,reiko,kitana
mkda-ill follow suit and say scorpion..but kung lao is real good i would say hes lower top tier!!

for every 1 that says that scorpion and subby r lower tiers in mk1 and 2..u dont play those games much!!!
mk 1 it goes
1-sonya (yuck!!!) leg grab is to good,and if timed right a second 1 can be done and its unblockable!!
2 subby-freeze after any hit like a sweep,round house, uppercut.. anything just do the freeze move!! his slide makes him better then scorpion..
3 scorpion..same as subbys freeze...
4 raiden
5 liu kang
6 j.cage (hes my best though i kick ass w/ him, but lets be real here!!!)
7 kano
in mk1 like every 1 said it pretty much is even.

in mk2 subby and scorpion r upper middle tier!!

about shang..i dont know much about him in umk3..but in mk2 hes a very good player!! i can c y in umk3 his morphs will kill him cuse u pros could prolly just run up to him and combo his ass real quick...it not that easy in mk2...

tier in mk2
1-mileena
2-liu kang
3-jax
4-kitana
5-kung lao
6-raiden..but in my hands though he is top tier # 2..but the average player doesnt use him right.. so he ends up in a lot of people low tier listings..
7-scorpion
8-sub-zero
9-shang tsung
10-j,cage
11-baraka
12-reptile

of all the mks mk2 i know the most i am a pro at mk2..if u want to doubt me pm me and we'll play online..
tiers in mk2 in MY HANDS..
1-mileena
2-raiden
3-liu kang
4-kung lao
5-shang tsung
6-scorpion
7-kitana..now this 1 is strange it still baffels me every day..but vs elite players my kitana puts up a fight but 70% of the time loses.. as any 1 here on this site knows me they know that kitana is my fav mk character ever!!! it pains me to lose w/ her vs the elite players of mk2....
8-baraka
9-sub-zero
10-reptile
11-jax..i am better then this ranking w/ him i think,but i hardly use him to say im good w/ him..
12- j.cage..same as jax..

danadbab Wrote: mk3/umk3-ill go w/ what mk2kungbroken said hes the umk3 PRO!!! shang tsung m

hes got an infinite fellas, cant be ranked last

MK2KungBroken Wrote: Still looking forward to playing you Lex, that is if you're willing to come out of retirement for it.

you may not want to play anymore if that happens...

but im sticking with my original plan of only playing winners of a tournament, thats it ;)

I'll just have to win then.

As for lowest ranked, I've always said I don't like going for a dead set "This character is ranked #x" because that defeats the purpose of tiers, Shang would be considered low tier, there are only a few characters who are also truly low tier, and all of those characters can fight eachother in that tier to some degree without being totally outmatched. That would represent a tier. Aside from the fact Shang has an infinite, is the probability of setting it up and performing it through til death, that's like saying most of the combos in our videos are easily doable in game and effect the character's tier ranking.

Matt

well it deos not really matter you just how to know how to use them(opinon)

I actually think Shinnok is worse than Shang Tsung, since at least Shang has his fireballs. Shinnok has nothing of his own to fight with, other than his immitations. I mean, the dude is a former Elder God, for crying out loud! He overthrew the Devil himself to rule the Netherealm, and all he can do in-game is mimic the opponent's moves and summon giant skeletal hands to crush the opponent for his fatalities? My god, how lame.

deadlyscorpoin-zero Wrote: well it deos not really matter you just how to know how to use them(opinon)

If you're trying to win touraments or money matches tiers matter. You don't want to risk losing with a weaker character when you have a better chance with someone else. But I like peeps like Cage and Stryker. I'm not trying to win tourneys. Just trying to be real good with them.

I've had quite a bit of fun reading most of this thread.

I grew up in Chicago, living about 10 min away from one of Midway's official MK testing arcades. I played MK the most and played a great deal of MK2 although I don't profess to be anywhere close to an expert. Unfortunately, by the time MK3 came out I moved away and I never got to play it in a competitive environment. But for those that care about MK1 here goes:

When talking about a character's special moves, when discussing tier rankings in MK it's almost a moot point. During the last evolution of gameplay, becuase it was so slow the game devolved into a series of walking LP pokes. Nobody would jump kick almost ever becuase of its easy reversal and likewise with most special moves. Since LP hits even a croucher it was safe to use and became a battle of reflexes at that point. Whoever could anticipate (or guess) correctly and whoever could counter quickest would win. In those last days, I only saw three people being used.

1) Sonya - her leg throw can counter ANYTHING if quick enough. Even those ducking low kicks! Once people "discovered" her sweep they were able to play more loose with her and she became by far the best in the game. Good uppercut too.

2) Cage - he was previously the favorite due to his lightning quick shadow kick, jumping HP (useful jumping both forward and backward) and awesome uppercut. If it wasn't for Sonya he'd reign supreme.

3) Liu Kang - he really came out of nowhere and was effective largely due to the aforementioned foot games. I *think* his ducking low kick had some extra property (either it stuck out farther or took off more, not 100% sure) so he was useful. Also, his Super Kick was nice too. If you were too close, it didn't hit and created space by flying over the opponent to the other side. If you were just far enough away and were trying to LP poke it would connect. Great uppercut also.

As for the rest, Kano was only useful becuase of his Ball being almost instantaeous. If someone tried to LP poke and you were RIDICULOUSLY fast you could hit them with the ball. His only other weapon was a sharp jumpkick that was harder to counter than the rest. Raiden was OK due to his great uppercut and teleportation for playing games but his Torpedo is punishable even if you get hit by it! 100% worthless. Both ninjas were not useful in a true competitive atmosphere due to having slow specials and horrible uppercuts.

As far as MK2 I think Jax is the best (so many mind games to be played with his Ground Punch and his air throw was great) and Mileena was a close second (so fast and air projectile/falling drop kick were a great mix). I can't give any more specifics than that though becuase I don't know MK2 well enough.

KM

I don't pretend to be an expert but this is my oppinion:
MK1: WEAKEST-Kano. He seemed too slow on the SNES

BEST- Johnny. He was fast enough for me at the time for me to beat anybody but Goro and only b/c the b@#$&*! cheated by performing his stomp repeatedly.

MK2: WEAKEST- Shang Tsung. If you beat anybody with Tsung by morphing into someone else then you really won with the morphed character rather than Tsung.

MK3: Weakest- Kintaro. Once you learned to block his stomp (I think he's the shokan I'm thinking of) he was just too slow to beat me with Cage, Mileena, Sindel or Rayden.

BEST-I never really used Mileena sai throw as it took too long. I knew her moves well and could pull off her roll and teleport kick quickly enough too kill anyone.

MK4: WEAKEST- Shinnok. Unless you not only knew the buttons to push to imitate someone but also that character's moves you were up a creek without a paddle. Btw the same could be said about Shang Tsung!
BEST- Tanya. It was so easy to cheat by just using corkscrew kick and maybe a combo here and there to keep them guessing. I tried not to do it but it was very tempting.
MKDA: WEAKEST- Li Mei. She had no real combos for her sais like Frost had for her daggers. Still, Mavado cheated heavily so he's pretty close.
BEST- Frost. I can beat just about anybody with Frost. My favorite moves are:
1. Freeze, do her juggle combo in Tong Bei, repeat or
2. Combo in Tong Bei (square,square, triangle I believe), Freeze as they get up, pull out daggers and do square combo. As they get up to attack get rid of daggers and do rising kick in Yuan Yang. Repeat as necessary.

These are just my oppinion though so don't feel insulted or anything if I have as weakest your favorite character.

when some 1 does the silly lp thing,all u have to do is a d=lk....sonya cant lp any 1 ducking and no 1 can lp her when shes ducking... cage's shadow kick is not quick..lol only moves in the game that r lightning quick is liu's kick move and sub-zero's freeze...
the ninja's r top tier because of their stun moves,their stun moves r great counter attacking moves,and u follow them up w/ a uppercut or a combo...and just ur comment about raidens Torpedo actually proves to me that u dont know much about the game...its a great move!!!

kingmajix Wrote: I've had quite a bit of fun reading most of this thread. I grew up in Chicago, living about 10 min away from one of Midway's official MK testing arcades. I played MK the most and played a great deal of MK2 although I don't profess to be anywhere close to an expert. Unfortunately, by the time MK3 came out I moved away and I never got to play it in a competitive environment. But for those that care about MK1 here goes: When talking about a character's special moves, when discussing tier rankings in MK it's almost a moot point. During the last evolution of gameplay, becuase it was so slow the game devolved into a series of walking LP pokes. Nobody would jump kick almost ever becuase of its easy reversal and likewise with most special moves. Since LP hits even a croucher it was safe to use and became a battle of reflexes at that point. Whoever could anticipate (or guess) correctly and whoever could counter quickest would win. In those last days, I only saw three people being used. 1) Sonya - her leg throw can counter ANYTHING if quick enough. Even those ducking low kicks! Once people "discovered" her sweep they were able to play more loose with her and she became by far the best in the game. Good uppercut too. 2) Cage - he was previously the favorite due to his lightning quick shadow kick, jumping HP (useful jumping both forward and backward) and awesome uppercut. If it wasn't for Sonya he'd reign supreme. 3) Liu Kang - he really came out of nowhere and was effective largely due to the aforementioned foot games. I *think* his ducking low kick had some extra property (either it stuck out farther or took off more, not 100% sure) so he was useful. Also, his Super Kick was nice too. If you were too close, it didn't hit and created space by flying over the opponent to the other side. If you were just far enough away and were trying to LP poke it would connect. Great uppercut also. As for the rest, Kano was only useful becuase of his Ball being almost instantaeous. If someone tried to LP poke and you were RIDICULOUSLY fast you could hit them with the ball. His only other weapon was a sharp jumpkick that was harder to counter than the rest. Raiden was OK due to his great uppercut and teleportation for playing games but his Torpedo is punishable even if you get hit by it! 100% worthless. Both ninjas were not useful in a true competitive atmosphere due to having slow specials and horrible uppercuts. As far as MK2 I think Jax is the best (so many mind games to be played with his Ground Punch and his air throw was great) and Mileena was a close second (so fast and air projectile/falling drop kick were a great mix). I can't give any more specifics than that though becuase I don't know MK2 well enough. KM

Ninjas in MK1 are definitely not top tier.

Matt

how can u claim to know so much about mk1 and 2?..but all u play is umk3...i play mk1 and 2 alot.. i dont claim to know shit about umk3,because i hardly play it... pretty much every 1 in mk1 are even,what makes the ninjas stand out and sonya r... for both ninja's r their stun moves and for sonya her leg grab and sweeps. also she doesn't get hit by low punching players, its hard to chip away at her.. scorpion's spear can be done over and over until he hits some 1.. in mk2 and umk3,they had to put a delay in that move...

MK2KungBroken Wrote: Ninjas in MK1 are definitely not top tier. Matt

But what about how long Scorpion is frozen after a spear is blocked? I mean if you block a spear you can jump in and uppercut if you are within 1/2 screen distance or so. If you are closer, like sweep or less you can do whatever you want.

Saying containment moves make a character top tier is only true if the containment is broken, in MK1, the Harpoon and Freeze are not broken. I believe there was a glitch where you could freeze someone as they were getting up even if they blocked it, but I don't remember if that was in the final version or not.

In MK3 Sub-zero's Ice Clone is broken, so is Kabal's spin, and it remains as broken in UMK3. In MKT Noob's Disabler is broken.

In MK1, Sonya and Johnny Cage are top tier, this has been exercised for years and proven. They are mathematically better than the other characters.

Matt

i never said anything about their moves being broken.. i said the spear,the freeze and the leg grab r the best counter moves..their easy to do and w/ scorpion and subby u follow them up w/ a uppercut,which is a big deal in mk1.. w/ sonya she could some times do 2 leg grabs,and its unblockable.it depends on how far away u do the 1st 1... johnny is not top tier in mk1.. we should play so u cant prove me wrong.. then ill eat crow..

MK2KungBroken Wrote: Saying containment moves make a character top tier is only true if the containment is broken, in MK1, the Harpoon and Freeze are not broken. I believe there was a glitch where you could freeze someone as they were getting up even if they blocked it, but I don't remember if that was in the final version or not. In MK3 Sub-zero's Ice Clone is broken, so is Kabal's spin, and it remains as broken in UMK3. In MKT Noob's Disabler is broken. In MK1, Sonya and Johnny Cage are top tier, this has been exercised for years and proven. They are mathematically better than the other characters. Matt

dreemernj SAID-But what about how long Scorpion is frozen after a spear is blocked? I mean if you block a spear you can jump in and uppercut if you are within 1/2 screen distance or so. If you are closer, like sweep or less you can do whatever you want.

hes not frozen at all after a blocked spear!! he can spear, spear w/ out any "pause" time like mk2 and umk3..u can not jump in and uppercut..i'd like to c u do that in the arcade verison of mk1. ill test it out and c..if u r right ill post and say sorry, but i dont c that happening . the spear has a fast recovery in mk1.. u may be able to jump and kick him,but u can do that vs any 1's projectile...

sonya and cage are top tier in mk1

the ninjas arent as good cos their sharp jump punches dont compare to cage's/raiden's/kano's, and if you dont know how to use them, well, you just havent played mk1 properly

sonyas leg grab is an infinite, even on the latest version. showing you the reasons why they are the best wont be that hard... and we are ONLY talking about arcade versions here, not home/mame.

Regarding this:

"and just ur comment about raidens Torpedo actually proves to me that u dont know much about the game...its a great move!!!"

Here's why it's NOT great:

Raiden can get punished by the opponent whether it hits or not!

I don't know if this is common knowledge, but if you let Raiden's torpedo hit you cleanly and don't hit any buttons while he's pushing you, you can do any special move during your falling down animation!

If you don't believe me then just try it. This means that the move is a huge liability becuase a) if it's blocked you're in for big punishment b) if you hit the opponent that knows what he's doing the very MOST you'll do is trade hits. In the case of Scorpion and Sub-Zero, though, they'll do easily 2-3x retaliation damage making the move essentially worthless.

As far as Sonya's ducking and LP properties you could very well be correct as I'm going off memory and haven't tried this stuff in years. I'm just recalling what I saw being done in Chicago.

KM

ok..i have made my point im not going to keep repeating myself..

mame is a arcade perfect version... what r u talking about? dont tell me its not!! i own a arcade machine and i have mk1 mk2 and umk3 w/ it...

depthcharge Wrote: sonya and cage are top tier in mk1 the ninjas arent as good cos their sharp jump punches dont compare to cage's/raiden's/kano's, and if you dont know how to use them, well, you just havent played mk1 properly sonyas leg grab is an infinite, even on the latest version. showing you the reasons why they are the best wont be that hard... and we are ONLY talking about arcade versions here, not home/mame.

In MK1 for the arcade scorpion is stuck for 1.5 game seconds after a blocked spear. Thats the pause I was referring to. That gives you time to jump in and attack. An uppercut would require letting go of block on the same frame that the spear hits. Also, if you are feeling a little pressured by the spear and want to back away, you release block the frame before the spear hits and it will connect and disappear and make your character wobble back about sweep distance with minimal damage and I believe that is still a state in which you can block.