"Of course you guys aren't wrong. You're just expressing your opinion."

But you see, saying MKDA sucked is not opinion because there is nothing that was good about it GAMEPLAY wise. Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance is a video game first and foremost, and as great as the story was, and as campy and warm as it felt(since it is Mortal Kombat) it sucked ass. Saying that MKDA sucked is an opinion is basically like saying Super Man 64 sucking is an opinion.

See you could go into battle without practicing too much because it was straight forward, but lets not forget that you had zero competetion. With Tekken 4, Soul Calibur 2 and Dead or Alive if you had zero competetion you could jump into battle without practicing much either, but the difference is, 2 of those 3 games have SERIOUS competetion and will not allow to do that. When MKD arrives you will be annihilated by people who know the glitches that plagued the game and will use them to their advantage. So thats not really a good reason to say you liked the gameplay because that fits for any other fighter without a competetion level.

I've played thoses games, except tekken 4, and when I went into battle without praticing enough, I got my ass kicked.

Any other reason you enjoyed MKDA's gameplay? Im talking in game, while fighting, what did you enjoy about it?

Hmmmmm, I guess that's all.


There's no doubt in my mind that MK can be better. I've even made a thread talking about how the gameplay in MK can be better. But honestly, the gameplay isn't the reason I even buy MK games, so if it doesn't change drasticly I'll probably still buy it. I own Soul Calibur 2 (Great game, I was thinking of buying the Xbox version. I only have the Gamecube version right now) and the gameplay there is way better than the gameplay in MK:DA. Anybody who says different either hasn't played it or is lying. But MK doesn't use gameplay to attract gamers. It uses violence, mini games, story and characters. MK was never about gameplay. There's no problem with wanting better gameplay, but if gameplay is the only thing that will get you to buy MK, you should either try harder to get Boon's attention or play another series.

Versatile Wrote: "Of course you guys aren't wrong. You're just expressing your opinion." But you see, saying MKDA sucked is not opinion because there is nothing that was good about it GAMEPLAY wise. Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance is a video game first and foremost, and as great as the story was, and as campy and warm as it felt(since it is Mortal Kombat) it sucked ass. Saying that MKDA sucked is an opinion is basically like saying Super Man 64 sucking is an opinion.

Sorry but it's still an opinion. It's like saying Mario is cool. Even if everybody in the world agreed with that, It's still opinion.

If the Mk team is going to put a fighter online you will see adn feel just how cruddy and garbage this system is. I can't WAIT to see everyone using ONE chaacter and trying to land one combo for a finish.

Is that fun? Cause that is what will happen. I garuntee it.

An ONLINE fighter musat have GOOD FIGHTING (balanced, not glitchy, good assortment of offencive and defencive options AKA: THE FUCKING BASICS!) in order to BE GOOD. Can you imagine MKDA online? GARBAGE. Pure utter trash. I am certain that if it was online it would be considered one of the most horrible fighters EVER. EVER! Look at the praise that game got when it came out and then the detailed trshing it got one month after. lol

Now we have MKD, I see very little difference in the engine. I am laughing at myself thinking how good people think this game will be. I chuckle to myself when I see people post about this being the 'greatest figher ever'. I laugh because those people must between the age of fetus and 10 to think such a thing after seeing those vids. Who could watch the fighting in those vids and even smile? Smile at what?

Does chess kombat make a good fighter? Does Konquest make a good fighter? Does a Krypt make a good fighter? Does a god damn rip off puzzle game make a good fighter? HELL NO! FIGHTING MAKES A FIGHTING GAME! MK is a fighting game. It does not have good fighting. It's not even considered GOOD mind you.

IF MKD came out in arcades it would get NO PLAY. It's going to come out online but it will be trash unless they change a lot. The FIGHTING, which is what most of you will be doing, is going to be QUICK, CHEAP, GLITCHY, and not a fun experience. I can't wait to see it. One style + one character = constant ownage.

Threads like this will live even after this game is released. Why? MK needs to improve its fighting. I care not about all that other shit. Things like the krypt and chess mean jack shit to me. I care about playing a good balanced, fun yet deep fighter. MK7 (if there is a mk7) should be totally focused on the fighting engine. They should spend two years working on the engine and getting it right. Play test at arcades around america for good feedback and release accordingly.

MKDA wasn't even fun.

God, it just makes me laugh that a person who likes a fighting game series, wanting better fighting is somehow in the wrong on this site.

It makes me really laugh.

Actually, Vers, I do understand where Cartmansp is coming from. I like the Street Fighter movie. If someone asked me why I wouldn't have an answer. It's a terrible film on every level. It does nothing at all right except maybe Raul Julia's over the top performance. Enjoying something isn't always the same as thinking it's good if that makes any sense. Liking something is based solely on opinion and taste but thinking something is good/bad is what's based on facts and warrants a defense of some sort. It wouldn't be fair for me to ask someone to defend themselves for liking anchovies.


Also, I'm sorry if this is off topic but everyone has to see this.
http://thisstrife.com/sluggy/flash/frencheroticfilm_tmst.swf

TonyTheTiger Wrote: Also, I'm sorry if this is off topic but everyone has to see this. http://thisstrife.com/sluggy/flash/frencheroticfilm_tmst.swf

That was hilarious!

AND MY AXE

I don't mean to jump in here, but I will, so I guess I mean to. Oh well.

Versatile: One man's garbage is another man's treasure. You thinking that MK:DA sucked is an opinion, it just is. End of story. I don't know why you're jumping on Cartmansp for liking the game.

I'll tell you what I liked about the gameplay: I liked the special moves that each character had. Projectile moves are fun, the knock up moves are fun, the three styles are fun. Changing styles are fun. And when you really learn a character in their entirety, sure the moves are somewhat limited, but I still liked thinking about what move or combo I was going to use next on my opponent. To me, those gameplay elements make for a good fighting game.

You can argue that MK:DA doesn't do any of these things as well as Tekken, VF, or SC, and you might be right on some levels in the matter of opinion. But that doesn't make those three series "good" and MK:DA "suck." It might just make those series better, while MK:DA, in my opinion, was a GOOD START.

In my opinion, Tekken has gone downhill ever since Tekken 3. The fourth game was GODAWFUL and ten times worse than MK:DA's worst faults. VF is a fun game, but it's too tight. I would never play the game with anyone that had never played VF before, or even just a casual gamer. If they picked Akira, they'd be ramming their heads through my TV twenty seconds into the first round. Soul Calibur was a fun game, SC2 was completely derivative. Nothing new at ALL. The graphics didn't even look that much better. Gameplay wise, there was nothing new at all, and it bored me rather quickly.

So yes, "good" is completely relative. I think that Tekken 3, Soul Calibur, and MK:DA are all good games. One being better than the other only depends for me on what kind of mood I'm in, and who I'm playing videogames with at the time.

Man, you naysayers are killing me. MK:D isn't even out yet and you already assume it's going to be a steaming pile. If you didn't like MK:DA, fine, no problem. But I seriously doubt the creators didn't tweak the gameplay and add a lot of moves for the sequel. If not, I have no problem admitting I was wrong. But honestly, stop judging a game that you haven't even played yet.

shakazulu, the person that started this thread: Very insightful post. The only thing that I would disagree with is about MK becoming obscure. Now I didn't comb through ten pages to see if anyone else already pointed this out. I'm sure they did. But MK:DA sold 3 million units, which is much more than VF4 and VF4:Evo combined.

Still, I get your point about the evolution of fighting games and I agree that fighting game fans have come to expect more everything. More moves, more combos, graphical penasche, more style, more innovation, more period.

That said, I still maintain my opinion that MK:DA was a stepping stone for the MK team. They spent a majority of time building the system, and it must not have left as much time for individual moves. Still, MK has never been about the amount of moves and strategic intracicies. It's always been about fun. Could there be more throws? Certainly. Could there be more individualized basic moves? Definitely. But I don't think that MK is in the stone age here. MK:DA was a good foundation, and I really did enjoy the gameplay. But you have to remember that it WAS a foundation. The MK team is building on that with MK:D, and while most people fear that it's just going to be the same crap with new RPG, puzzle, and chess minigames thrown in, I have to believe, until I'm proven wrong by the end product, that there will be more and better gameplay as well.

Every fighting game series has humble roots. Tell me Tekken and VF aren't the most hideous games you've ever seen. MK:DA is the origin of the new era for MK. It's not great, but it is good for what it is. It might take one, two, or even three games to enhance the formula and make MK the premier fighter again gameplay wise, but every othe series has had to go down those roads. Just remember. Tekken/VF/SC have always been in 3D. MK has evolved by leaps and bounds since its inception in 1992. It will continue to do so.

Maybe you should have atleast looked at page nine, there you would've found my post about a lot of the stuff you've mentioned, if you can't be bothered going to it i'll just take a few points out.


shakazulu, the person that started this thread: Very insightful post. The only thing that I would disagree with is about MK becoming obscure. Now I didn't comb through ten pages to see if anyone else already pointed this out. I'm sure they did. But MK:DA sold 3 million units, which is much more than VF4 and VF4:Evo combined.

"How many sales Deception will make is irrelevant, that will be based on all it's fans buying it because of the storyline, fataliteies etc.

If fighting games sales depended on whether it was a good fighting game or not, Deception wouldn't sell a tenth that other fighting games do, that isn't the case now i admit completely but it will be in the next few years when everyone is worn out and bored of fatalities and extra modes."


most people fear that it's just going to be the same crap with new RPG, puzzle, and chess minigames thrown in, I have to believe, until I'm proven wrong by the end product, that there will be more and better gameplay as well.

the majority are happy about this, that's why this thread is here, because the minority of people that release that "fighting is the main part of a fighting game." we're trying to educate the majority so that they won't ask for these kind of extras and gimmicks again.

Every fighting game series has humble roots. Tell me Tekken and VF aren't the most hideous games you've ever seen. MK:DA is the origin of the new era for MK. It's not great, but it is good for what it is. It might take one, two, or even three games to enhance the formula and make MK the premier fighter again gameplay wise, but every othe series has had to go down those roads. Just remember. Tekken/VF/SC have always been in 3D. MK has evolved by leaps and bounds since its inception in 1992. It will continue to do so.

Tekken and VF aren't the most hideous games i've ever seen.
Whether Mortal Kombat has evolved leaps and bounds since 1992 is irrelevant, that was when it was a 2D fighter, all of that gameplay wise has been thrown out of the window for the change to 3D
“I blame this to the lack of difficulty in MK games, they have never been made hard to complete so they have kept with that idea all throughout the series, this was ok in the 2D fighter world because 2D fighters were never about gameplay and depth, but now Mortal Kombat has become 3D, the rules have changed. the 3D fighting world is completely different and it's about time Boon released that.”

As far as I’m concerned MK was never the premier fighter gameplay wise as it only had competition from street fighter, and they were about level, but in the world of 3D gameplay, Tekken, VF and Soul Calibur own Mortal Kombat, and until something is done eg stop wasting time making crappy extra games and spending more time and people on the gameplay, Deception will be no better than Deadly Alliance. Not that much of a leap

FL Style: "Maybe you should have atleast looked at page nine, there you would've found my post about a lot of the stuff you've mentioned, if you can't be bothered going to it i'll just take a few points out."

My response: It's not that I couldn't be bothered, I just didn't have time at that particular moment. You're right though, I should've read the other pages before I commented.

I originally wrote: shakazulu, the person that started this thread: Very insightful post. The only thing that I would disagree with is about MK becoming obscure. Now I didn't comb through ten pages to see if anyone else already pointed this out. I'm sure they did. But MK:DA sold 3 million units, which is much more than VF4 and VF4:Evo combined.

FLstyle's response: "How many sales Deception will make is irrelevant, that will be based on all it's fans buying it because of the storyline, fataliteies etc.

If fighting games sales depended on whether it was a good fighting game or not, Deception wouldn't sell a tenth that other fighting games do, that isn't the case now i admit completely but it will be in the next few years when everyone is worn out and bored of fatalities and extra modes."

My response: I think you missed my point. I was responding to the comment about MK being OBSCURE. A game that sells 3 million copies is not obscure. Oh, and your little theory about people being bored of fatalities and extra modes in a few years, well, fatalities have been around for about twelve years now, so I wouldn't count on that idea coming to fruition.

I originally wrote: most people fear that it's just going to be the same crap with new RPG, puzzle, and chess minigames thrown in, I have to believe, until I'm proven wrong by the end product, that there will be more and better gameplay as well.

FLstyle responded: the majority are happy about this, that's why this thread is here, because the minority of people that release that "fighting is the main part of a fighting game." we're trying to educate the majority so that they won't ask for these kind of extras and gimmicks again.

My response: Okay, not to sound like an ass, but you do realize how snotty you sound when you say that you're trying to "educate" the majority, right? I've been playing fighting games since Street Fighter 2 in the arcade. If I thought that I needed to be educated, I'd play the games more. But I've already played almost all of them.

Anyways, who asked for an RPG mode? A chess mode? All of these gimmicks that have been put into MK:D? I've never seen a post on this or any other board from a person wishing that there were more game modes like these. Maybe an RPG type mode, in lieu of Soul Calibur's weapon master mode, but that's even a stretch.

I originally wrote: Every fighting game series has humble roots. Tell me Tekken and VF aren't the most hideous games you've ever seen. MK:DA is the origin of the new era for MK. It's not great, but it is good for what it is. It might take one, two, or even three games to enhance the formula and make MK the premier fighter again gameplay wise, but every othe series has had to go down those roads. Just remember. Tekken/VF/SC have always been in 3D. MK has evolved by leaps and bounds since its inception in 1992. It will continue to do so.

FLstyle's response: Tekken and VF aren't the most hideous games i've ever seen.
Whether Mortal Kombat has evolved leaps and bounds since 1992 is irrelevant, that was when it was a 2D fighter, all of that gameplay wise has been thrown out of the window for the change to 3D
“I blame this to the lack of difficulty in MK games, they have never been made hard to complete so they have kept with that idea all throughout the series, this was ok in the 2D fighter world because 2D fighters were never about gameplay and depth, but now Mortal Kombat has become 3D, the rules have changed. the 3D fighting world is completely different and it's about time Boon released that.”

My response: Alright, point well taken. Comparing MK1 to MK:DA is like comparing apples to oranges. MK4, the first true 3D MK game would've been a better example. Even then, MK:DA was a rather sizeable evolution from MK4.

Tekken and VF aren't the ugliest games ever, but they were rough as hell gameplay wise and graphics wise in comparison to their sequels. That's all I meant by that. They evolved.

2D games were never about gameplay and depth? Yeah, go back to 1993 and tell that to a Street Fighter fanatic. That's just plain wrong.

FLstyle wrote: As far as I’m concerned MK was never the premier fighter gameplay wise as it only had competition from street fighter, and they were about level, but in the world of 3D gameplay, Tekken, VF and Soul Calibur own Mortal Kombat, and until something is done eg stop wasting time making crappy extra games and spending more time and people on the gameplay, Deception will be no better than Deadly Alliance. Not that much of a leap

My response: Street Fighter was the only competition? How about Fighters History, Bloodstrom, Killer Instinct, X-Men, heck all of the Vs games for that matter, King of Fighters, Samauri Shodown, TMNT Tournament Edition, Eternal Champions, Darkstalkers etc etc etc.

"MK was never the premier fighter gameplay wise, as street fighter was it's only competition, and they were about level." Okay, so what was the premier 2D fighter?

You're right though, gameplay wise, Tekken, VF, and SC do own MK right now in the gameplay catagory. I agree with everyone that says that time would be better spent making more unique throws, combos, moves, etc for each character, than time spent rendering a background for the chess game. But I keep hearing that MK:DA's gameplay "sucked," partially because people could use one combo to get through the whole game. Well, you can play it that way. But you can also play VF, Tekken, and SC that way as well, just to get through the game. You can also learn the characters. I enjoyed MK's gameplay. Is it rough, hell yeah it is. But it can be better. Much better. And like I said, I'm still holding out hope that it will be.

Baraka: Virtua Fighter is the top fighting game in arcade sales charts, on average, the normal VF4 player who has been playing from the start of VF4 has already dished out $1000 US Dollars on the game playing over the period of 3-4 years. Combining VF4 sales are better than MK in every other country, Virtua Fighter wins by total money made at least 40x more than MK since MK fans, even the most avid, only pay $50. In Japan-Europe-Korea, the total amount of VF fans far outnumber the total amount of MK fans, and if each of them spent about $1000 US dollars are the arcade (from the start until now), do you seriously think that people paying $50 each compares?

Also, MK has NO Move properties and NO frame advantage. Do you really know what this implies? You don't get counterhits, you don't get staggers, you don't have any reason to use any move except for its speed/power/delay. That inherently sets the game up for imbalance because, obviously, you only need to find the best speed/power/delay ratio moves in the game and the character the has them. MKDA: Find the best low, find the best mid to chain combo, backdash/backdash cancel, sidestep. Thats all there is to it. Your character only uses those 4 things to play at their best level. Anything else is either a creation of glitches (infinites from BRC and Frost) as well as random inefficient and unsafe fighting.

I know that the whole point was about obscurity, but I felt what I said needed to be said, a lot of people on this thread have been hiding behind that fact that it outsold VF4 and VF Evo, I agree a game that sells 3 million isn’t obscure.

I know that point sounded snotty, but again that’s referring to what has been going on in this thread, some people have really been acting like 5 year olds, when you’re trying to have a opinionated discussion and people just come along with some of the stupid comments they people have done in this thread it really feels like you’re arguing with children, that wasn’t aimed at you, it was aimed at the people posting 2 liners saying it was only 20% complete or if you hate the game leave here, we’re giving constructive criticism not hating MK my apologies if you yourself or anyone else making valid points in this thread took offense to that.
As for fatalities well, I’m just gonna say the jury is still out on whether people will be sick of them in a few years time, I myself have noticed a drop in quality of fatalities since the jump to true PS2/Xbox 3D.
People may have not asked for extra modes, but they’re not exactly complaining about about the fact that they are in Deception, instead of more time spent on gameplay.

Tekken and VF’s first games were rough, but they were the first ever real 3D fighters, all the other 3D series have been made because of their influence, they may have not been the best games, but don’t underestimate their importance.

The premier 2D in my opinion is a toss-up between Mortal Kombat and Street fighter, I could never pick a favourite and to be honest I didn’t care much for the others, I gave 2D fighting a go in the early 90’s but it just wasn’t my cup of tea, sports were my thing back then so I apologise for my lack of knowledge about 2D fighters other than MK and SF. Having said that I did play MK and SF a lot and I don’t agree with associating SF with gameplay depth, looking at the introduction of 3D fighters a few years later in my opinion they had a much bigger impact concerning gameplay than SF and MK, putting all MK and SF character’s signature moves aside all characters used the same fighting styles, the animation on them was just different for each character.

I’m glad you agree with us in this thread about gameplay problems and it’s good that you’ve optimistic about the improvements but as said previously in the thread Boon + co haven’t been boasting about the gameplay much, the talk from them is about these new modes so I’m not expecting improvements in Deception as big as in other fighters.

"One man's garbage is another man's treasure. You thinking that MK:DA sucked is an opinion, it just is. End of story. I don't know why you're jumping on Cartmansp for liking the game. "

CartmanSP knows MKDA's engine was wack. He stated it in his own way. It sucked. That is not an opinion because there wasn't anything good about MKDA's engine. What you fail to see is I loved MKDA. It still stands as one of the most memorable experiences, if not THE most memorable experience in my video game life time. I enjoyed playing it in the beginning, and I still play it here and there just because it's MK, but the game is bad. CartmanSP says he doesnt play for gameplay, so his opinion on whether it's good or not isn't the most valid of things. I, however, play for a good balance of fluff and gameplay, but mainly gameplay, and MKDA is not good no matter how hard you try to make it seem good. I argued for hours with friends about how MKDA is not bad and that it can hang with the fighting game giants, but after months of convincing I have come to the realization that they are beyond right.

"I'll tell you what I liked about the gameplay: I liked the special moves that each character had. Projectile moves are fun"

How? There is not one projectile in MKDA that was useful besides the kiss of death. Did the pretty color get to you? Did the cool effects if one of them hit(which would never happen against a real opponent btw) got to you that much? I guess that would have to be the reason considering the absolute worthlessness of every projectile in MKDA. You want pretty projectiles with USE? Play any capcom fighter, or even the old school MKs.

"the knock up moves are fun"

I think you are referring to the launchers, and every fighter has launchers, and they are done much better in their respective games than they were in MKDA. MKDA had combos that lead into SERIOUSLY damaging juggles. It would be a lot better if most of the launchers were just a button press and not an actual combo. For example, Jax's 2,2,cs,4,b+2. That is so sick it isn't even right. Judo: b+2 is fine, but none of that branch shit before it. Way too much damage. Not to mention the lack of frame data made launchers extremely unsafe and kinda pointless unless it WAS linked off from a SAFE combo(case in point, Jax and Shang's branch). You look at the two best characters in MKDA(Scorpion and Bo Rai Cho), neither of them required launchers to win because they just aren't that effective unless under rare circumstances.

"the three styles are fun. Changing styles are fun."

Uh, they aren't fun when 80% of the time the other 2 stances are absolute garbage. You will RARELY if EVER see a Scorpion player use Ninja Sword or Hapkido because Pi Gua is infinitely better than both stances. You will never see Reptile use Karehashi, and you will never see Drahmin use Netherealm. I could keep going on about this, but changing styles would be fun if each stance had uses and weaknesses like in EVERY OTHER FIGHTING GAME. It was cool at first, but then you realize every other 3D fighter has this kind of system and it is much better because each of their stances has uses.

"And when you really learn a character in their entirety, sure the moves are somewhat limited, but I still liked thinking about what move or combo I was going to use next on my opponent."

What's the point when 2 things...

1. Only 2 characters in MKDA are worth learning.

2. Even those who arent that useful only have ONE useful combo, so what's the point of learning the others when they only do a fraction of the amount of damage than one that is probably easier to do and way more damaging?


"You can argue that MK:DA doesn't do any of these things as well as Tekken, VF, or SC, and you might be right on some levels in the matter of opinion."

No, none of that "on some levels in the matter of opinion" shit. MK:DA doesnt do anything better than Tekken,VF or SC on a gameplay scale. It just has better cosmetics and fluff. You cannot debate with me in that category because there is nothing to debate about. Seriously man..let's get real.

"But that doesn't make those three series "good" and MK:DA "suck." It might just make those series better, while MK:DA, in my opinion, was a GOOD START."

So you already realize the matter of opinion thing is BS right? You realize that "good start" aside, MKDA does suck compared to those games right?

And now that we're on the subject of a good start, I have LONG forgave MKDA, but when you look at MK:D I don't see any gameplay evolution. That's what makes old feelings come back. I see MKDA with death traps...straight up. That is all I see is a prettier MKDA with death traps and more characters(who for the most part will probably be low tier considering bo rai cho will own them all.)

"In my opinion, Tekken has gone downhill ever since Tekken 3. The fourth game was GODAWFUL and ten times worse than MK:DA's worst faults."

See right now I would normally explode on you for that comment, but there really is no point and will just result in me getting skulls, but Tekken 4 is superior to MKDA on a gameplay scale in every possible,conceivable, imaginable category whether you would like to admit it or not. T4 is not a perfect game, but it does what it does right for the most part and blows MKDA out of the water. 1999 Tekken 3 blows MKDA out of the water, and on a depth scale makes MKDA looks like it should of came out BEFORE Tekken 3. I would go as far as to say Tekken 2 blows MKDA out of the water on a gameplay scale.

"VF is a fun game, but it's too tight. I would never play the game with anyone that had never played VF before, or even just a casual gamer. If they picked Akira, they'd be ramming their heads through my TV twenty seconds into the first round."

That's because you don't know how to play VF4, not because Akira is broken. Every character in VF4 has a FAIR chance against Akira.

"Soul Calibur was a fun game, SC2 was completely derivative. Nothing new at ALL. The graphics didn't even look that much better. Gameplay wise, there was nothing new at all, and it bored me rather quickly."

Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance was a boring game. Nothing new at ALL. The graphics were decent. Gameplay wise, there was not only nothing new there, but nothing there period, and it bored me rather quickly.

Sorry..couldn't resist, but SC2 also blows MKDA out of the water, and I don't even have to get into how badly SC1 and SB own it as well.

"So yes, "good" is completely relative. I think that Tekken 3, Soul Calibur, and MK:DA are all good games. One being better than the other only depends for me on what kind of mood I'm in, and who I'm playing videogames with at the time."

Yeah, so if you're in "I want a shit game with fluff and cosmetics and pretty projectiles" mood you will play MKDA, but for any other reason you'd play the much better Tekken 3 or Soul Calibur right?

"Man, you naysayers are killing me. MK:D isn't even out yet and you already assume it's going to be a steaming pile."

We're judging from what people who have played the game have said and what we see. Newsflash, the only thing you are doing when you view a video of the gameplay is not pressing the buttons. Think about that.

"If you didn't like MK:DA, fine, no problem. But I seriously doubt the creators didn't tweak the gameplay and add a lot of moves for the sequel."

Gameplay has been tweaked a tad bit, but not so much as to say its automatically going to be good. It still has ALL OF THE GLITCHES THAT PLAUGED MKDA. Read that capped part of the sentence again. Two times if you have to. It's still simple minded, but only it's prettier with more modes. Can't you see you are being played. MIdway has implimented all these new modes BEFORE addressing MKDA"s gameplay problems. Does that even seem right you? That's not right at ALL. Midway thinks MKDA was fine, and that is why I am worried and that's why I believe MKD will suck.

"But honestly, stop judging a game that you haven't even played yet."

That line is getting annoying to, just because if we were hyping MKD up and saying how awesome its going to be you wouldnot be aggrivated by it, because we're pointing out MKD's obvious problem it's automatically a big deal.

colguile Wrote: If the Mk team is going to put a fighter online you will see adn feel just how cruddy and garbage this system is. I can't WAIT to see everyone using ONE chaacter and trying to land one combo for a finish. Is that fun? Cause that is what will happen. I garuntee it. An ONLINE fighter musat have GOOD FIGHTING (balanced, not glitchy, good assortment of offencive and defencive options AKA: THE FUCKING BASICS!) in order to BE GOOD. Can you imagine MKDA online? GARBAGE. Pure utter trash. I am certain that if it was online it would be considered one of the most horrible fighters EVER. EVER! Look at the praise that game got when it came out and then the detailed trshing it got one month after. lol Now we have MKD, I see very little difference in the engine. I am laughing at myself thinking how good people think this game will be. I chuckle to myself when I see people post about this being the 'greatest figher ever'. I laugh because those people must between the age of fetus and 10 to think such a thing after seeing those vids. Who could watch the fighting in those vids and even smile? Smile at what? Does chess kombat make a good fighter? Does Konquest make a good fighter? Does a Krypt make a good fighter? Does a god damn rip off puzzle game make a good fighter? HELL NO! FIGHTING MAKES A FIGHTING GAME! MK is a fighting game. It does not have good fighting. It's not even considered GOOD mind you. IF MKD came out in arcades it would get NO PLAY. It's going to come out online but it will be trash unless they change a lot. The FIGHTING, which is what most of you will be doing, is going to be QUICK, CHEAP, GLITCHY, and not a fun experience. I can't wait to see it. One style + one character = constant ownage. Threads like this will live even after this game is released. Why? MK needs to improve its fighting. I care not about all that other shit. Things like the krypt and chess mean jack shit to me. I care about playing a good balanced, fun yet deep fighter. MK7 (if there is a mk7) should be totally focused on the fighting engine. They should spend two years working on the engine and getting it right. Play test at arcades around america for good feedback and release accordingly. MKDA wasn't even fun.

Worst part is it's going to take probably most of the people in this thread and the ones who aren't vocal about the gameplay to show everyone online just how bad it is.

colguile Wrote: God, it just makes me laugh that a person who likes a fighting game series, wanting better fighting is somehow in the wrong on this site. It makes me really laugh.

Yes, I will never get that. Every other fighting game with their fans and series lovers ask for better gameplay, especially through comparison.

I don't know why but I get the feeling that everyone who doesn't want MK's engine to improve wouldn't even notice if it did. If MK:D comes out and it's nothing but DA with interactivity there's going to be a whole bunch of threads complaining. But if MK:D comes out and it's the best thing since sliced bread, there's not going to be any threads complaining that it's "too deep". Something tells me that people who want MK to stay the way it is wouldn't even be able to tell if it suddenly gained depth.

TonyTheTiger Wrote: I don't know why but I get the feeling that everyone who doesn't want MK's engine to improve wouldn't even notice if it did. If MK:D comes out and it's nothing but DA with interactivity there's going to be a whole bunch of threads complaining. But if MK:D comes out and it's the best thing since sliced bread, there's not going to be any threads complaining that it's "too deep". Something tells me that people who want MK to stay the way it is wouldn't even be able to tell if it suddenly gained depth.

They probably wouldn't and I think only through online play and effort from people such as Versatile to dissect the game like he did in MKDA would yield to everyone how much MK needs it after seeing how bad MKD will be if it doesn't change from MKDA.

Hell I don't think Boon would know what's wrong until he actually sees it himself. His precious three stance system and movelist will be reduced to only a few usable moves and stances by players will be a big wakeup call when he sees that more than 80% of movelists are entirely useless.

Of course it might most of the people on these boards will probably be bored with the game after a month and seeing them again to actually play the game will be rare if not ever again.

Hey I wonder if Ed Boon sees this and is insulted or if a thought was provoked... hmm.. deeper gameplay? I think that if he did want to make a game with a deeper system he should delay the game six months or so and give us a MK:Deception that would supply us with online and offline competition... but I doubt that will happen... he will see those of us who want deeper gameplay as the minority and not worth his time... but he'll have to shape up if all of the those who don't know what a good fighting system is figures out what is actually going on and sees things the way they are... later

MajinTsung Wrote: Hey I wonder if Ed Boon sees this and is insulted or if a thought was provoked... hmm.. deeper gameplay? I think that if he did want to make a game with a deeper system he should delay the game six months or so and give us a MK:Deception that would supply us with online and offline competition... but I doubt that will happen... he will see those of us who want deeper gameplay as the minority and not worth his time... but he'll have to shape up if all of the those who don't know what a good fighting system is figures out what is actually going on and sees things the way they are... later

Well he is a member here though I'm sure he rarely goes here since he's busy with MKD and all.

I must say that the fighting in MKD LOOKS just like the fighting in MKDA but with extra stuff in it although there are many reasons as to why this game is called Mortal Kombat: Deception...I'm not saying that they'll have a really deep system in this game and deceive us into thinking that it'll be relatively the same as MKDA's fighting system.

However, it's not like they are just going to slap on the same fighting engine. I think one of MKDA's main problems was the limited amount of time they had to work on it since they had to build the engine from scratch. Yes, it does resemble Tekken and Soul Calibur a bit and yes, the MK fighting engine needs major improvements.

Sub-Zero_7th Wrote: However, it's not like they are just going to slap on the same fighting engine. I think one of MKDA's main problems was the limited amount of time they had to work on it since they had to build the engine from scratch. Yes, it does resemble Tekken and Soul Calibur a bit and yes, the MK fighting engine needs major improvements.

i wouldn't defend Boon + co there, as discussed previously the Tekken series always have 2 years inbetween each other whereas Deception is being made in a year, i wouldn't complain one bit if another was took to add what the people in this thread want.

Yes it does resemble Tekken and Soul Calibur a bit???? what the hell??? i'm about 80% sure on this one that no-one in this thread has said that Deception resembles Tekken and Soul Calibur, i'm sure a lot of us here would be pretty happy if that was the case but no-one has actually mentioned that and gameplay wise Deception is not like Tekken or SL it isn't in the same league as them at this point in time.
Another case of people misunderstanding the points we are putting across or not reading the previous pages to see what has been said by others.

hopefully sometime in the future something will be done to the fighting engine, then some of us will like Deception for what it should be, a fighting game.

So I come back to this topic, and I still find many, many good points. Most things have been said already, however, I recall reading "if Midway delayed Deception..."

To my knowledge, Midway does the complete opposite. MK3 was a rush job, as was MK4, and MKDA. All to meet some supposed deadline. I've never once seen Midway delay a game to make it better. In fact, in order to make it seem better, they pull a Street Fighter II and create ADD-ON games for that title. MK3 had UMK3 and Trilogy (which was just to keep cash flowing). MK4 created MK Gold. Console-wise, DA didn't do this, but the GBA version did with Tournament Edition.

Yeah, that was sort of off-topic, but I don't remember Midway delaying ANYTHING in order to make drastic changes.

Versatile Wrote: Can't you see you are being played.

WHOOP, ther' it is, shakalaka shakalaka!!

FLSTYLE Wrote: Sub-Zero_7th Wrote: However, it's not like they are just going to slap on the same fighting engine. I think one of MKDA's main problems was the limited amount of time they had to work on it since they had to build the engine from scratch. Yes, it does resemble Tekken and Soul Calibur a bit and yes, the MK fighting engine needs major improvements. i wouldn't defend Boon + co there, as discussed previously the Tekken series always have 2 years inbetween each other whereas Deception is being made in a year, i wouldn't complain one bit if another was took to add what the people in this thread want. Yes it does resemble Tekken and Soul Calibur a bit???? what the hell??? i'm about 80% sure on this one that no-one in this thread has said that Deception resembles Tekken and Soul Calibur, i'm sure a lot of us here would be pretty happy if that was the case but no-one has actually mentioned that and gameplay wise Deception is not like Tekken or SL it isn't in the same league as them at this point in time. Another case of people misunderstanding the points we are putting across or not reading the previous pages to see what has been said by others. hopefully sometime in the future something will be done to the fighting engine, then some of us will like Deception for what it should be, a fighting game.

Hey, hey, hey, Mr. Tough Guy, no need to go psycho on me. lol

Actually, Deception will be around 2 years of development...well...a bit less but around there. Deadly Alliance was around 1.5 years of development and it was a good step even though there really does need to be major improvements like I said before...And also like I said before, there has been evolution with the MK games and between MK4 and MKDA, there was a huge evolution. Although, going back to what I said before, it needs major improvements.

What I meant before about MKDA being a bit like Tekken and Soul Calibur is pretty simple if you think about it. Tekken uses martial arts styles and Soul Calibur uses weapon combat. The controls for many of the styles in MK: DA resemble that of Tekken's controls with attacks 1 and 2 being more of the punching type moves while attacks 3 and 4 are more of the kicking type moves.

This thread is godly.

Man, what a damn good read.

I'll make my opinion clear.

MK can obviously use some improvements in its gameplay. If its gameplay improves, I'll be more than happy,BUT the gameplay was NEVER part of MK. I NEVER buy MK for gameplay. So if the gameplay doesn't improve, I'll probably still buy MK games.

cartmansp Wrote: I'll make my opinion clear. MK can obviously use some improvements in its gameplay. If its gameplay improves, I'll be more than happy,BUT the gameplay was NEVER part of MK. I NEVER buy MK for gameplay. So if the gameplay doesn't improve, I'll probably still buy MK games.

That's the thing Cartmansp, MK is still classified as a "fighting game." As long as it is, you will have people that advocate for a better system because like the rest on this thread, we ARE MK Fans that don't want MK to be less than what it could be. Everything other than the fighting game for MKDA kept most fans 90-95% the people for at most a month. A fighter with a real fighting system will keep fans playing and wanting more until the next game.