HDTran Wrote: That's the thing Cartmansp, MK is still classified as a "fighting game." As long as it is, you will have people that advocate for a better system because like the rest on this thread, we ARE MK Fans that don't want MK to be less than what it could be. Everything other than the fighting game for MKDA kept most fans 90-95% the people for at most a month. A fighter with a real fighting system will keep fans playing and wanting more until the next game.

The thing is, MK was never meant to be a good fighting game. Ed himself said it was only meant to be a quick project. But since it made a lot of money, a sequal was made. MK was all about money. Other fighting games were meant to sell big. So a lot of emphasis was put into the fighting engine. MK is all about violence. I've never considered it a true fighting game. I'm not saying it's wrong to want better gameplay, I'm just saying chances of it becoming "deep" are very low. As I've said before, if better gameplay is the only thing that will get you to buy MK, you should either try much harder to get Midway's/Boon's attention or play another series.

Didn't this thread already serve its purpose. I think it's time to close it.

cartmansp Wrote: HDTran Wrote: That's the thing Cartmansp, MK is still classified as a "fighting game." As long as it is, you will have people that advocate for a better system because like the rest on this thread, we ARE MK Fans that don't want MK to be less than what it could be. Everything other than the fighting game for MKDA kept most fans 90-95% the people for at most a month. A fighter with a real fighting system will keep fans playing and wanting more until the next game. The thing is, MK was never meant to be a good fighting game. Ed himself said it was only meant to be a quick project. But since it made a lot of money, a sequal was made. MK was all about money. Other fighting games were meant to sell big. So a lot of enphasis was put into the fighting engine. MK is all about violence. I've never considered it a true fighting game. I'm not saying it's wrong to want better gameplay, I'm just saying chances of it becoming "deep" are very low. As I've said before, if better gameplay is the only thing that will get you to buy MK, you should either try much harder to get Midway's/Boon's attention or play another series.

It's obviously not the only reason why I buy MK. Anyways, MK is only $50. Considering I frequent the arcades at my University and Sunnyvale Golfland, $50 is a little price to pay, I've shelled out more than that easily on the better fighting games. Anyways, we ALL know that MK sells on gimmicks and fluff, I mean look at all the threads on the most random thing you can think of. Let me browse through the list right now.. hmm... Kitana's Baby, a Fatality Contest, Desiring returning characters, etc.

It's obvious that it doesn't sell for gameplay, BUT since MKD is going online and that certainly means competition for most people, MKD will be seen as such. When people say that the system right now is fine, it will be proven to be horrible online. I'm not asking for complex, I'm asking for a resemblance of required thinking to the game. When you play other fighters, you have to think and outsmart to win. When you play MKDA, you're playing a Rock-Paper-Scissors game that even a kindergartener can play. I'm sure most of the people on this thread will agree that the slightest miniscule hints of the basics would make them all too happy to see in MK.

I certainly don't think anyone expects perfection nor balance given the timeframe.

HDTran Wrote: It's obviously not the only reason why I buy MK. Anyways, MK is only $50. Considering I frequent the arcades at my University and Sunnyvale Golfland, $50 is a little price to pay, I've shelled out more than that easily on the better fighting games. Anyways, we ALL know that MK sells on gimmicks and fluff, I mean look at all the threads on the most random thing you can think of. Let me browse through the list right now.. hmm... Kitana's Baby, a Fatality Contest, Desiring returning characters, etc. It's obvious that it doesn't sell for gameplay, BUT since MKD is going online and that certainly means competition for most people, MKD will be thisthingisdisableduated as such. When people say that the system right now is fine, it will be proven to be horrible online. I'm not asking for complex, I'm asking for a resemblance of required thinking to the game. When you play other fighters, you have to think and outsmart to win. When you play MKDA, you're playing a Rock-Paper-Scissors game that even a kindergartener can play. I'm sure most of the people on this thread will agree that the slightest miniscule hints of the basics would make them all too happy to see in MK. I certainly don't think anyone expects perfection nor balance given the timeframe.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in that post.

Thing is, I don't buy MK obviously for only the fighting or else I wouldn't spend so much effort trying to make it better.

But it IS a fighting game and it needs a good fighting system. The worst part is in interviews, Ed Boon corellates how good MKDA's fighting system is based on American Console Sales (even though if he looks at it overall, MK doesn't come close to VF, Tekken, CvS2, MvC2, etc. in total money made). ED BOON sincerely thinks that his fighting system is good. That is why he is focusing on all of these little extras over the fighting system, BUT the fighting system should be the first thing he should be worrying about.

I have to agree with Cartmansp as I would like gameplay improvements but i wouldnt mind if they didnt change it because i like the DA fighting engine. It was fun and simple. If MK replaced all the characters with lame ass japanese guys(no offense) and took out the fatalities BUT added an extremely in depth gameplay would you still buy it? NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! It wouldnt be MK anymore.

reptile001 Wrote: I have to agree with Cartmansp as I would like gameplay improvements but i wouldnt mind if they didnt change it because i like the DA fighting engine. It was fun and simple. If MK replaced all the characters with lame ass japanese guys(no offense) and took out the fatalities BUT added an extremely in depth gameplay would you still buy it? NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! It wouldnt be MK anymore.

I'm not asking it to be anything more than MK, I'm asking Boon to consider the fighting system as a top priority. I'm not even telling Boon to consider the fighting system over fatalities, characters, etc. I'm asking him to place the fighting system before the puzzle game, the chess game, and the konquest mode because I would rather sacrifice all three of those and have a better fighting system, then vice versa. For me, having the puzzle game or the chess game having more depth than the actual fighting game would be just plain bad for a "fighting game."

HDTran Wrote: Thing is, I don't buy MK obviously for only the fighting or else I wouldn't spend so much effort trying to make it better. But it IS a fighting game and it needs a good fighting system. The worst part is in interviews, Ed Boon corellates how good MKDA's fighting system is based on American Console Sales (even though if he looks at it overall, MK doesn't come close to VF, Tekken, CvS2, MvC2, etc. in total money made). ED BOON sincerely thinks that his fighting system is good. That is why he is focusing on all of these little extras over the fighting system, BUT the fighting system should be the first thing he should be worrying about.

Meh, I've said MY opinion already. Just incase you haven't seen it...



MK can obviously use some improvements in its gameplay. If its gameplay improves, I'll be more than happy, BUT the gameplay was NEVER part of MK. I NEVER buy MK for gameplay. So if the gameplay doesn't improve, I'll probably still buy MK games.




BTW, I've already said you need to try harder to get the MK Team's attention. If you really want to tell them what's up, get some of your buddies and E-Mail Midway at...

pr@midway.com

...or...

games@midway.com

If you get enough people, Ed Boon might get the idea. Mabye you should send the MK Team a link to my gameplay thread so they can get some ideas.

You can't say MK never had gameplay though.. that would make it a non-playable game. It had rather good gameplay.. fun and challenging if the opponent was also.

You could say that MK never was about in depth gameplay..

reptile001 Wrote: I have to agree with Cartmansp as I would like gameplay improvements but i wouldnt mind if they didnt change it because i like the DA fighting engine. It was fun and simple. If MK replaced all the characters with lame ass japanese guys(no offense) and took out the fatalities BUT added an extremely in depth gameplay would you still buy it? NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! It wouldnt be MK anymore.

I'd buy it for sure, seeing how I buy games like Tekken and VF which don't have any fatalities. It wouldn't be any different, so I'd still be happy.

But nobody is saying to trade the fatalities for game play.

people are talking about adding better game play to what is already there.

But to tell you the truth, If I had to choose one or the other, I would gladly trade fatalities for a great fighting engine any day of the week.

IMO, Fatalities are kool, but game play is much more important, I hardly ever even do the fatalities. I usually just do an uppercut or something, that's it.

Bleed Wrote: ...I would gladly trade fatalities for a great fighting engine any day of the week... ...IMO, Fatalities are kool, but game play is much more important, I hardly ever even do the fatalities...

You are not a true MK fan.

MK has always had game play and it was ok, I had fun with every MK game.

It just needs a lot of improvements to make it really great, that's all.

I'm not, why because I don't think murdering your opponent is as important as the fight it self?


You can't judge me as a fan, you don't know me.

Actually, I'm a big MK fan, if I wasn't I wouldn't even be here.

I'm not fighting with you or anything because I don't like to argue about stuff like that, I just needed to clear that up.



We are both fans of MK, but we have different views, reasons and ways of thinking, that's all

Bleed Wrote: I'm not, why because I don't think murdering your opponent is as important as the fight it self? You can't judge me as a fan, you don't know me. Actually, I'm a big MK fan, if I wasn't I wouldn't even be here. I'm not fighting with you, or anything because I don't like to argue about stuff like that, but I just needed to clear that up.

[hint] sarcasm [/hint]

Mabye I should've posted a smiley.

That's the bad thing about forums, you can't tell if people are serious or not.


Unless you use smilies.

Bleed Wrote: That's the bad thing about forums, you can't tell if people are serious or not. Unless you use smilies.

This is a bit off topic, but I would love to have 2 lines of MK games. The 2D, and the 3D games.

I think that would be so awesome and Boon himself stated that he would love to do just that in one of the Gamespot interviews.

Of course, the Fight engine would need to have serious attention payed to it, for both the 2D and 3D games.

Bleed Wrote: This is a bit off topic, but I would love to have 2 lines of MK games. The 2D, and the 3D games. I think that would be so awesome and Boon himself stated that he would love to do just that in one of the Gamespot interviews. Of course, the Fight engine would need to have serious attention payed to it, for both the 2D and 3D games.

It'd be cool if Boon worked on the 3D games and Tobias worked on the 2D games.

reptile001 Wrote: If MK replaced all the characters with lame ass japanese guys (no offense) and took out the fatalities BUT added an extremely in depth gameplay would you still buy it? NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! It wouldnt be MK anymore.

Hell yes I'd buy it. Why? Becuase it's got deep gameplay. It would be a GOOD fighting game, most likely. Let me say that again, "a GOOD fighting game."

Look, I say this a lot, but there are two types of MKers. Those who are satisfied with the style of content which is currently present; and those who want a deeper playing experience. Sadly, the later is a minority - though growing, I think. Such is simply because of the demographic that the game caters to. I honestly think this demographic will never change.

What's so frustrating is that I, as well as many others, are not even spitting fire for an uber deep and intense, almost unplayable game. Verse said it nicely, "MK sucks at being a simple fighter." Or something along those lines.

I had an instructor who stated that, "if you're going to do simple, do it well and do it precise. If you don't, the flaws are just that much more evidant." Such is the case with DA and D is looking to follow the same path.

All we want, those advocating a resurgence in gameplay, is that the game is....well, good. That's all. I will never expect MK to be a VF, an SC, a Bloody Roar, a cheese sandwhich, a hanky-panky....just a game that has good, at least acceptable, fighting mechanics. Is that so much to ask? I mean, is it really?

HDTran: Dude, Sunnyvale, I take it you're from cali. I'm heading up to Anehiem this coming weekend for about a seven day vacation........think you could hook me up with some arcades and teriyaki shops? Maybe some other entertainment venues, besides Disneyland .

reptile001 Wrote: If MK replaced all the characters with lame ass japanese guys (no offense) and took out the fatalities BUT added an extremely in depth gameplay would you still buy it? NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! It wouldnt be MK anymore.

Not really.

Satyagraha Wrote: reptile001 Wrote: If MK replaced all the characters with lame ass japanese guys (no offense) and took out the fatalities BUT added an extremely in depth gameplay would you still buy it? NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! It wouldnt be MK anymore. Hell yes I'd buy it. Why? Becuase it's got deep gameplay. It would be a GOOD fighting game, most likely. Let me say that again, "a GOOD fighting game." Look, I say this a lot, but there are two types of MKers. Those who are satisfied with the style of content which is currently present; and those who want a deeper playing experience. Sadly, the later is a minority - though growing, I think. Such is simply because of the demographic that the game caters to. I honestly think this demographic will never change. What's so frustrating is that I, as well as many others, are not even spitting fire for an uber deep and intense, almost unplayable game. Verse said it nicely, "MK sucks at being a simple fighter." Or something along those lines. I had an instructor who stated that, "if you're going to do simple, do it well and do it precise. If you don't, the flaws are just that much more evidant." Such is the case with DA and D is looking to follow the same path. All we want, those advocating a resurgence in gameplay, is that the game is....well, good. That's all. I will never expect MK to be a VF, an SC, a Bloody Roar, a cheese sandwhich, a hanky-panky....just a game that has good, at least acceptable, fighting mechanics. Is that so much to ask? I mean, is it really? HDTran: Dude, Sunnyvale, I take it you're from cali. I'm heading up to Anehiem this coming weekend for about a seven day vacation........think you could hook me up with some arcades and teriyaki shops? Maybe some other entertainment venues, besides Disneyland .

i think the minority is growing, because some of the majority are understanding the points being but across and more people are joining in and supporting this thread, who knows we might turn MK into a good fighter yet.

one thing i was really annoyed with Deadly Alliance that better have been sorted for Deception was the fact the half the characters had the same movelist for their weapons, not to mention that some were unfairly better than others, they were more powerful fair enough in the case of scorpion but that should've been canceled out by the weaker weapons having more 4/5 hit combo's, but even there the most useful combo's came from the more powerful character's, and when you went into a style branch combo you'd only end up doing one or two moves with the weapon, this is where I feel should be more customisation for you characters, make a create a combo systemand test them online against people who have done the same.

Garlador Wrote: Characters in Mortal Kombat are better. Most of the characters in Virtua Fighter are terribly unoriginal and boring, especially when compared to a hell-spawn who shoots a spear out of his hand, a soul-sucking sorcerer, a chick with razor teeth and her sharp-toothed, blade-armed boyfriend, a four-armed half-dragon prince, an immortal thunder god, a blue ninja who turns people into ice sculptures, an Australian crimelord with a laser eye, and a Chinese ninja who just happens to be both an African man, but also a yellow tin man on steroids.

That is fucking hilarious.

FLStyle: While I admit more moves and such for weapon stances would be good I suppose and higher hit combos on the faster stances, that really doesn't pan out as well as you would imagine. Since if faster stances had more hits and compensate in damage, what's the point of using slower ones? The thing with MKDA is it has no move properties, speed/delay/damage isn't enough to warrant usage of most of the stances since the ones with the best ratios and is safe would inherently be better. Throw that in with certain special moves and you have an ideal character. Moves in MK don't give you frame advantage, don't stagger, don't counterhit, don't give you invincibility to certain attacks (generally), etc.

Satya: San Jose and Sunnyvale are like 6 hour drive away man =P hehe, wouldn't know what to show in California anyways.

They can use the same fighting engine, but with a couple of tweaks. Time delay between moves is the biggest problem I saw in Deadly Alliance. I've said earlier that I'm a huge fan of manual combos, and that's basically what I want more than anything in the fighting engine (hell, that would BE the fighintg engine). I discussed my system in cartmansp's gameplay thread.

Basically, I know MK really won't be up to par with Virtua Fighter or Tekken ever. However, giving it a 'kick' will at least make it competitive.

To people who say MKDA was fun and simple: You will not think it's fun and simple when you face people who know how to play it in the excruciatingly similair sequel coming out in fall. You will think it's simple, but definitely not in a good way. More in a glitchy, boring, half assed, dial a combo, repetetive gameplay, 5 useful moves per character kind of way.

I said it once, and I will say it again. I don't expect MK to ever be as deep as Tekken or Soul Calibur. It is a simple game. It is simple like Smash Bros and it is simple like Bloody Roar(tho I have seen high level bloody roar play, and that shit is pretty dope). The difference here is the fact that those games have depth with it's simplicity, and both of those games are clean. MKDA does not have depth with it's system because there isn't a system. I am serious..there literally is not a fighting system in that game. There are no 100% properties or safe situations for depending on your positions and what characters you are facing shit is fucked up. It's the dirtiest(as in not finished and not touched up) fighter I have ever played.

The thing that sucks here is that you can't realize it now and help us fight the good fight. Most of you will have to wait till fall to get your ass handed to you by people who knew MKDA sucked(because they were good at it) to realize what MKD should have been, sadly for all of us it will be too late. Let's just hope MK7 gets shit done right, or that combo breakers are the most revolutionary thing since side stepping.

Wow, I sure do hope I face Ed Boon in MKD online.