Agter playing Virtua Fighter (4:Evolution) so much, MK:D looks like crap

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gabe687
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•06/09/2004 03:06 AM (UTC) •

Comparing MKD or MKDA to games like VF4 or Tekken 4 is unfair yes, but that's pretty much the whole point of this debate.

To make it fair, we all want MK to stand up to those other games.

All the ideas given are ways to try and make MK able to stand at the same or above the level of it's strongest competitors.

•06/09/2004 03:11 AM (UTC) •

Bleed Wrote:
Comparing MKD or MKDA to games like VF4 or Tekken 4 is unfair yes, but that's pretty much the whole point of this debate.

To make it fair, we all want MK to stand up to those other games.

All the ideas given are ways to try and make MK able to stand at the same or above the level of it's strongest competitors.

Oh, I see......but it's still unfair.

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•06/09/2004 05:58 AM (UTC) •

This isn't targetted at anyone in particular. I just want to make a point. What if it was the other way around. What if MK was considered the best of the best technically speaking and all over the world people gathered to play it in hordes at tournaments. Not to say that nobody would have complaints about the game but what if those complaints weren't as harsh as this for example?

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=208&topic;=14272713

Frankly, that pisses me off. I'm not mad at them for saying what they're saying. I'm mad that MK does nothing to defend itself from that. People don't just randomly choose a game to hate on. Something that the game did or didn't do had to spark it in the first place. My point is that only MK takes that kind of bashing. Why? Critics of Tekken don't talk about Tekken like that. Critics of VF don't talk about VF with such disrespect. Like I said, something had to spark the hatred. If that gets fixed the MK bashing will stop. If you're a fan of MK. If you genuinely care about the series, then you'd want to let the MK team know specifically what can be done to stop people from talking about the series like that.

Satyagraha

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•06/09/2004 06:20 AM (UTC) •

Dude...what in Sam hell are you doing at gamefaqs, lol.

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•06/09/2004 06:26 AM (UTC) •

Heh. I used to post at the various Megaman boards a few months ago until things got boring as hell. I'm CVGuile there. I lurk around the comics, animation, and fighting game boards a lot but I usually don't say anything since nothing of intrest comes up.

FLSTYLE

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•06/09/2004 10:42 AM (UTC) •

salbeinit Wrote:
i didnt saw all the replyies so i dont know if someone has said this but: IF YOU DONT LIKE THE GAME DONT BUY IT AND IF YOU HAD PREORDERED IT DONT PLAY IT as simple as that.

LMAO i knew someone would say something like that, well in answer to what you said salbeinit read my long post where it clearly describes what we are talking about for people like you who don't understand because i'm sick of argueing with people like you and i'm sure everyone else is, if you don't agree with what is said in this thread go post in one of those i think Deception is gona be brilliant because it has more fatalities and extra mode threads, it won't be hard to find one they're all over the place

Digital_Assassin

@Digital_Assassin

•06/09/2004 02:15 PM (UTC) •

TonyTheTiger Wrote:
This isn't targetted at anyone in particular. I just want to make a point.

What if it was the other way around. What if MK was considered the best of the best technically speaking and all over the world people gathered to play it in hordes at tournaments. Not to say that nobody would have complaints about the game but what if those complaints weren't as harsh as this for example?

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=208&topic;=14272713

Frankly, that pisses me off. I'm not mad at them for saying what they're saying. I'm mad that MK does nothing to defend itself from that. People don't just randomly choose a game to hate on. Something that the game did or didn't do had to spark it in the first place. My point is that only MK takes that kind of bashing. Why? Critics of Tekken don't talk about Tekken like that. Critics of VF don't talk about VF with such disrespect. Like I said, something had to spark the hatred. If that gets fixed the MK bashing will stop. If you're a fan of MK. If you genuinely care about the series, then you'd want to let the MK team know specifically what can be done to stop people from talking about the series like that.

man u already know the answer to dat
critics of tekken and vf dont "bash" tekken or vf cuz their actually good true 3d fighters...they dont suck unlike mk:da did... mk:da was one of the worse fighting games i had ever played in my whole life...but yea if it was the other way around and mk was the best n tekken n vf were the worst i'd "bash" (or watever u want to call it) those games... but it isnt dat way...

Raiden_is_God

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•06/09/2004 03:11 PM (UTC) •

I am on your guy's side. I just hate seeing you say the game sucks the game doesn;t suck the fighting does and it needs to be improved so email boon and them and tell them that.

SonOf100Maniacs

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•06/09/2004 03:43 PM (UTC) •

Digital_Assassin Wrote:

cartmansp Wrote:
its feels like a 2d fighter traped in a 3d world

It really does, not even side stepping was useful. it even has the old dial a combo type system from mk3, you just dont have to be up close to do it.

salbeinit

@salbeinit

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•06/09/2004 04:36 PM (UTC) •

FLSTYLE Wrote:

salbeinit Wrote:
i didnt saw all the replyies so i dont know if someone has said this but: IF YOU DONT LIKE THE GAME DONT BUY IT AND IF YOU HAD PREORDERED IT DONT PLAY IT as simple as that.

LMAO i knew someone would say something like that, well in answer to what you said salbeinit read my long post where it clearly describes what we are talking about for people like you who don't understand because i'm sick of argueing with people like you and i'm sure everyone else is, if you don't agree with what is said in this thread go post in one of those i think Deception is gona be brilliant because it has more fatalities and extra mode threads, it won't be hard to find one they're all over the place

yeah whatever the thing that most dont understand is that isnt the same say: vf4 is gonna easily overcome mk6 that saying i played vf4 and mk6 is crap. also people has to remember that all the other fighting games are japanese and as all know in japan is developed the best technology. also the game isnt finished and the midway team is doing their best so i dont think its correct to say that the thing in wich they're working is a crap.

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•06/09/2004 05:15 PM (UTC) •

Digital_Assasin wrote:
man u already know the answer to dat
critics of tekken and vf dont "bash" tekken or vf cuz their actually good true 3d fighters...they dont suck unlike mk:da did... mk:da was one of the worse fighting games i had ever played in my whole life...but yea if it was the other way around and mk was the best n tekken n vf were the worst i'd "bash" (or watever u want to call it) those games... but it isnt dat way...

I know. My questions were rhetorical in nature. They're more or less for the people who are critical of the critics to ask themselves so they better understand why MK needs to improve.

salbeinit Wrote:
yeah whatever the thing that most dont understand is that isnt the same say: vf4 is gonna easily overcome mk6 that saying i played vf4 and mk6 is crap. also people has to remember that all the other fighting games are japanese and as all know in japan is developed the best technology. also the game isnt finished and the midway team is doing their best so i dont think its correct to say that the thing in wich they're working is a crap.

The Japanese are great copiers but not the best inventors. An example would be the transistor radio, which put Sony on the map, was invented in Edison, NJ. Besides, all that is meaningless. The technology is there, the money is there. Midway has exactly what they need.

Satyagraha

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•06/09/2004 05:52 PM (UTC) •

Thats true. The japanese rarely ever come up with their own "trends", "ideas", and what not. They are simply amazing at knowing what is worth developing. When they develop it, it's the most amazing thing since, well, whatever it was that they developed before.

They are probably the greatest culture in regards to "adaptation" on the planet, bar non.

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gabe687
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•06/10/2004 12:11 AM (UTC) •

You don't need to be in Japan to make a game like that.

We have a lot of developers here with the brains for something like that.

I think it's marketing for the most part. Americans tend to like easy and fun stuff, while Japanese tend to like the more technical games.

So US developers make games that will sell the most, simple and fun.

That's what I've read several times.

But I wonder how those statistics look on a chart. I know a lot of people that like the more technical games.

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•06/10/2004 02:37 AM (UTC) •

I don't know enough about the European and Australian markets to comment on them but it's a well known fact that the Japanese game market is flooded with a lot more crap than its American counterpart. This means that the Japanese focus on liking what may seem more technical is reactionary based on them having to choose between the great minority of good games and the unbelievable amount of piecies of trash you couldn't pay someone to play. I've played a number of those games and they're both mindnumbingly simple and not fun in the least. If they run to something like Virtua Fighter it may seem like they prefer the technical but in reality they're just avoiding the majority of games available to them.

Comparatively, think of what our market would be like if games like Superman 64 were commonplace but games like Jak and Daxter were the great exception to the rule. That would alter people's perception on what our population tends to lean to. Sure, more bad games are released than good ones in any market but games as horrid as Superman 64 are far more rare in ours than they are in the Japanese. It's not practical to say one population leans toward something and another leans toward something else when the markets in question have distinct differences.

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gabe687
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•06/10/2004 02:51 AM (UTC) •

interesting

MENTHOL

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•06/10/2004 03:16 AM (UTC) •

Satyagraha Wrote:
Thats true. The japanese rarely ever come up with their own "trends", "ideas", and what not. They are simply amazing at knowing what is worth developing. When they develop it, it's the most amazing thing since, well, whatever it was that they developed before.

They are probably the greatest culture in regards to "adaptation" on the planet, bar non.

It's hard to say. I remember how they rejected DVD until it was a feature for PS2. but as far as making fighting games, yes. They're easily the best. But a lot of western and PAL developers have easily rivaled Japan's best when it comes to games in general. I'd say for making games, we're about equal with Japan. But they do certain genres better and vice versa.

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gabe687
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•06/10/2004 03:43 AM (UTC) •

Hey, what if the jump kicks were like in the old games or like in MK4.

so we could do the jump kick combos again.
I missed that from MKDA.

I'd like to have one old style jump kick, then one new style kick, like the ones in DOA3.

One could be used to set up juggles, and the other would cause a stun for a ground set up.

A jump punch could have the same effect as kung laos jump kick in MKDA. Or like a fierce punch in Street fighter. This would also open up for combos.

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•06/10/2004 03:57 AM (UTC) •

You know what really sacres me: The fact that they had MK1, 2, 3, UMK3, MKT, and MK4 to get a good, workable fighting system down and established.

Did they? No. The best they EVER did IMO was MK4. And I'm reffering to the fighting nothing else. MK4 was about as 'expansive' and 'open' as the MK autocombo engine could get. Very little lag off canceled combos made for great experimentation. More work and a moulding with the MKDA engine could give birth to something that is actualy playable.

Regardless, they had about 10 years+ to make a good engine. And they have not done it.

Am I to think that they will now? After what I have seen?

Let's get serious for a second. I am holding out hope for this game. I love MK and man I really want this game to get credit for the fighting not the stupid extras or the graphics. I can find those in other shallow fighters like DOA.

But when the street fighter pack comes out on Xbox along with DOAU and MKD. It's going to be interesting which get more play and praise online.

MENTHOL

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•06/10/2004 04:37 AM (UTC) •

I think they should of stuck and expanded on the MK4 system. That way they don't alienate the old school MK fans and they can also make MK games in 3d environments to please the newer crowd. I'm one of the few who liked MK4 but I also wonder how many people played the arcade version before saying how bad of a game it was. The majority base it off the home versions which isn't even fair. They couldn't conquer 2d. They won't conquer 3d. But if they stuck with the MK4 engine, they could of atleast conquered 2.5d lol. Of course they would be the only ones doing it but hey, "MK isn't like other fighters!" would actually have some credibility to it.

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•06/10/2004 05:03 AM (UTC) •

I really liked the custom combo feel of MK4.

I would like that back, but with the combo breakers, and the individual styles.

So MKD + something like the MK4 combo system.

So things to add would be a lot more freedom with the combos, and the ability to link special moves to combos.

This could be changed to some cool looking combo enders, sort of like what Liu Kang did to shang tsung at the end of the MK1 movie.

I'm not sure if the special moves should be linked like in MK4, or more controlled like just for enders. Maybe you can just do them as part of pre set combos, like with regular attacks.

Like If Jonny cage had Whoarang's 1,2,>+3 combo. Jonny could do it like 1,2,+3

So left punch, right punch, shadow kick.

What do you think?

This wouldn't just be it for combos though, I'd also have things like linking throws to a combo, a side step, a counter stance, cancels........

•06/10/2004 05:29 AM (UTC) •

Bleed Wrote:
I really liked the custom combo feel of MK4.

I would like that back, but with the combo breakers, and the individual styles.

So MKD + something like the MK4 combo system.

So things to add would be a lot more freedom with the combos, and the ability to link special moves to combos.

This could be changed to some cool looking combo enders, sort of like what Liu Kang did to shang tsung at the end of the MK1 movie.

I'm not sure if the special moves should be linked like in MK4, or more controlled like just for enders. Maybe you can just do them as part of pre set combos, like with regular attacks.

Like If Jonny cage had Whoarang's 1,2,>+3 combo. Jonny could do it like 1,2,+3

So left punch, right punch, shadow kick.

What do you think?

This wouldn't just be it for combos though, I'd also have things like linking throws to a combo, a side step, a counter stance, cancels........

Hmmmmmm, I like the idea of ending combos with specials. I also like the idea of custom combos. It would add a lot more options in the game. I'd definitely like to see this in MK:Deception.

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•06/10/2004 05:15 PM (UTC) •

It all comes down to execution. The MK team can do pretty much anything they want but whether it's a success or not isn't based on the idea exactly but the execution. We keep saying they need things like counter hits but let's hope they know how counter hits should work.

•06/10/2004 05:44 PM (UTC) •

MK has some of the BEST stories and characters compared to other fighting games, but when it comes down to gameplay...it's not so good, to say the least. Can you imagine if the MK Team made a Mortal Kombat game with a deep story, deep characters and deep gameplay? It would be an unstoppable juggernaut of a fighting game. I don't think the MK Team realizes the potential this game has. It has such a huge fanbase, and if they included better gameplay it would gather even more fans. It would, without a doubt, be one of the best fighting games out there. I hope that, one day, the MK Team uses MK to its full potential and shows just how great the series can be. It's sad that the people who are concerned about the gameplay are overshadowed by the people who want an old character to return or more fatalities or other things that aren't as important as gameplay. I see more people on this site asking for Kitana to return than people asking for improved gameplay, and when someone actually points out something that needs to be fixed, gameplay wise, they're attacked by around 20 fans saying "If you don't like the game, don't buy it."