1. Tekken Tag Tournament - I still consider this the pinacle of fighting games. I started playing this in 2000 and its still so fun, so deep 4 years later. I hope Namco does a re-release of this game with an online feature soon.

2. Soul Calibur 2 - Very fun game. Good variety of weapons and styles.

3. Tekken 4 - A little too much emphasis on jab priority and upclose fighting. Very hard to move around too and a little bit too glitchy. I wasn't too crazy about the position change and small arenas but still good a game. Steve Fox was the shizzle.

4. Virtua Fighter 4 - I only rank it here cause I never really got into it. No competition unlike in Japan were its the biggest fighting game right now. I could tell that this game is good though I prefer the more arcade feel of the namco games than the simulation feel of vf.

5. MKDA - Coming in dead last. It was fun for about a week and then the shallowness kicked in. Just very flawed. The canned combos are especially lame. One jab leads into a long string and then a juggle, come on. Just too boring. Hopefully, MKD can fix the some of the big problems.

Then coming out soon is Tekken 5 and that looks fucking awesome. Looks like Namco too T4 as a learning experience and fix their problems in T5 much like Sega and VF3. You could learn something Midway.

true, I can't say that i find MK as enjoyable to play on as the other's, and if people are going to complain about the fact that MK is about its story, then you might as well make a game that has a intro and the endings.

The whole 3 style thing doesn't do it for me, it's a bit cheap, Tekken has been doing multiple style characters since Tekken 3, there are as many moves for each style as the others and they can all be linked together in nice, fluid strings.
(Lei Wulong + Hwoarang)

I love the whole technical ideas behind VF, it's the only game thats fighting is based on realism, and I don't mean making a movelist and labelling a well known martial arts style on to it.

Soul Calibur gets my pick for the most improved game ove the last few years.

Dead or Alive for me has a better tag system than Teken Tag, despite Tekken Tag being a better game overall.

I must admit for Boon + Co's first attempt at 3D Deadly Alliance didn't seem a complete waste of time dispite being (in mine and a lot of others opinion) the worst 3D fighter at this moment in time, hopefully Deception will be better, if it's not then i'm not bothering with the whole online thing until one of my other favourite games becomes online.

FLSTYLE Wrote: true, I can't say that i find MK as enjoyable to play on as the other's, and if people are going to complain about the fact that MK is about its story, then you might as well make a game that has a intro and the endings. The whole 3 style thing doesn't do it for me, it's a bit cheap, Tekken has been doing multiple style characters since Tekken 3, there are as many moves for each style as the others and they can all be linked together in nice, fluid strings. (Lei Wulong + Hwoarang) I love the whole technical ideas behind VF, it's the only game thats fighting is based on realism, and I don't mean making a movelist and labelling a well known martial arts style on to it. Soul Calibur gets my pick for the most improved game ove the last few years. Dead or Alive for me has a better tag system than Teken Tag, despite Tekken Tag being a better game overall. I must admit for Boon + Co's first attempt at 3D Deadly Alliance didn't seem a complete waste of time dispite being (in mine and a lot of others opinion) the worst 3D fighter at this moment in time, hopefully Deception will be better, if it's not then i'm not bothering with the whole online thing until one of my other favourite games becomes online.

Well, there is no question that MKD will be better than MKDA by a lot. Haven't you ever heard the old saying "It was so bad that it can only get better?". Well, that's how I feel about MKDA. It sure as hell won't be that good unless Ed Boon sees the ever so bright light, but I will still play it. I will still enter tournaments and enlighten those I play online to the errors of the game and teach them stuff with it, but really just because it's MK.

MK is MK. That arguement seems the most prevailent and it's also the most irritating. What if MK:DA was not an MK game? What everything was pretty much identical but the characters and title were different? Who'd be defending it then? It's like if Ed Boon took a dump in a box and labeled it MK people would still defend it saying it smells like peaches. Defending MK because it's MK doesn't fly. Forget the title and picture something like Tao Feng and Kakuto Chojin. Those are two games that have no history or mythos. Both have been slammed because of their engines but nobody is coming to their rescue proclaiming, "KAKUTO CHOJIN IS KAKUTO CHOJIN! LEAVE IT ALONE!" Heh. What are you defending? The game or the name?

That "smells like peahces" comment was friggen hillarious man. That made me laugh out loud..hahahaha.

"no its not shit! its peaches! it smells like peaches!"

ok IDIOTS... first of all mortal kombat fucking outdues any fighting game on this planet...second of all the kombatants on mortal kombat would pound the piss out of the characters in VF4...and mostly they should make a fighting game where mortal kombat vs. VF just to show you all how badly mortal kombat would fuck up VF.....NUFF SAID!!

ur-soul-is-mine Wrote: ok IDIOTS... first of all mortal kombat fucking outdues any fighting game on this planet...second of all the kombatants on mortal kombat would pound the piss out of the characters in VF4...and mostly they should make a fighting game where mortal kombat vs. VF just to show you all how badly mortal kombat would fuck up VF.....NUFF SAID!!

erm no, please don't post on this thread again that was just a waste of space, atleast the people argueing before give reasons why MK's gameplay was good even though they were proven wrong.

I'm just hoping Midway learns from their mistakes. Just like BusterWolf said, Namco and Sega learned from their mistakes and the following sequels were awesome or look very promising. Virtua Fighter 3 was considered crap and then they follwed up with Virtua Fighter 4, a significant improvement and now considered the most perfect 3d fighter. Many Tekken players considered Tekken 4 not as good as TTT. They didn't like the uneven terrains, the wall pushes, and enclosed areas, and the juggling system. So what does Namco do for Tekken 5, they listen to their fans and rather on expanding on a system that wasn't wildy popular, they revamp it and mix in more of the TTT engine that was more popular with their fans. Midway, however, I don't know what their thinking. They pretty much based Deception on the Deadly Alliance engine. I don't know if combo breakers or whatever else they're adding will be enough to compensate for the terrible DA gameplay. Now, most of us are probably willing to give Boon and Midway a break since DA was their first attempt at a 3d fighter, but they have to learn from their mistakes. And from the looks of it, they didnt. Deception's fighting system is headed towards oblivion, just like DA. Midway, learn from your mistakes, listen to your fans just like Sega and Namco!!!

Alright, I've gotta say that I'm getting sick of the people that bash MK taking the intellectual highroad.

Some people seem to think that coming onto an MK fansite and saying things like "MK's gameplay sucks ass" is okay, but then get miffed when the response is "if you don't like it, don't play it."

Now, I've been told in this thread that my liking projectile attacks has something to do with the fact that I like "pretty colors." So basically I'm being called an idiot. Okay, fine. We'll take out Sub-Zero's freeze, Scorpions Spear, Mileena's Sai Throw, etc etc. We'll have a complex throw system, reversals, a ton of moves for each character and...Does anyone see where I'm going with this?

People get mad about these types of comments because the stuff that a majority of you are proposing are just ideas ripped from other fighting games. I like my projectiles, my teleports, etc. If I wanted a 100 moves per character, a complex throw system, and only semirealistic moves, I'd play Tekken. I do play Tekken. I've owned T1, T2, T3, TTT, and T4. But the things that many of you guys seem to want in MK aren't what this series is all about, it's what other fighting games are all about. That's why there's so much conflict over change here.

Do you guys seriously want the MK franchise to be some lower class derivation of Tekken or VF? Well, I don't.

TonytheTiger seems to think that the only reason why people are defending MK is because, well, it's MK, and that if it were Kakuto Chojin, it'd be a different story. Well, let's see, we're on an MK fansite... So yeah, I think people have the right to like a series and defend it. We're not on a Kakuto Chojin fansite, otherwise you might hear that exact same argument there. But I do agree, it's not the best argument that can be made.

However, I tried to make an argument as to why I liked MK:DA, and I was shot down. I liked the projectiles, but apparently I'm a moron who only likes pretty colors. I liked the style changes, the branch combos etc, but I'm told that they weren't good, and that everything that I liked about the game wasn't good. Honestly people, you can debate me all you want about what you want in MK:D, and where you think the series should go etc, but you can't DISPROVE my opinion. It's my opinion, and you're not going to change it. So stop trying.

You might think I'm closed minded, but I've heard all of the arguments on this page, and they simply don't hold weight with me as far as MK:DA is concerned. No, I don't like playing "shitty" games. But to me, MK:DA wasn't a shitty game. We can have a mature argument here, and I'm definitely all for that, but calling someone's opinions wrong and insulting them does not make anyone look smarter.

If you want to argue with me about what MK:D should be, and why you think it won't measure up to your own personal standards, that's fine. I'll tell you what I like about the MK:DA/MK:D system, but in the end, we'll agree on some points and disagree on others. But in the end, all we're doing is giving our opinions, so stop thinking that you're right and everyone else is stupid. Alot of you think that MK fans are ignorant because "Ed Boon could shit in box and we'd defend it," well, I really don't think I'd go that far, but ignorance to me is not having the tolerance for dissenting opinions.

If you can tolerate well argued, supported, opposing viewpoints, then I salute you. That goes for FLstyle, who I talked with before. Good arguments all around.

To everyone else, keep the opinions coming, and I'll try to counter with my own opinions. I will agree on certain aspects, and others I will disagree with. But don't call me stupid for liking a game that you do not like. Let's look at, and analyze what MK is now, and what you'd like it to be, what I'd like it to be, but at least keep it civil.

erm your gay dont tell me not to post on this again im am defending mortal kombat you little panzy you shouldnt post here you shoud be on the VF4 message board not the mortal kombat prove me wrong but all got to say is how every one says that the gameplay isnt indepth enough WTF they give each character 3 fighting styles what else do you want you spoiled bastard!!!!???

FLSTYLE Wrote: ur-soul-is-mine Wrote: ok IDIOTS... first of all mortal kombat fucking outdues any fighting game on this planet...second of all the kombatants on mortal kombat would pound the piss out of the characters in VF4...and mostly they should make a fighting game where mortal kombat vs. VF just to show you all how badly mortal kombat would fuck up VF.....NUFF SAID!! erm no, please don't post on this thread again that was just a waste of space, atleast the people argueing before give reasons why MK's gameplay was good even though they were proven wrong.

ur-soul-is-mine Wrote: erm your gay dont tell me not to post on this again im am defending mortal kombat you little panzy you shouldnt post here you shoud be on the VF4 message board not the mortal kombat prove me wrong but all got to say is how every one says that the gameplay isnt indepth enough WTF they give each character 3 fighting styles what else do you want you spoiled bastard!!!!??? FLSTYLE Wrote: ur-soul-is-mine Wrote: ok IDIOTS... first of all mortal kombat fucking outdues any fighting game on this planet...second of all the kombatants on mortal kombat would pound the piss out of the characters in VF4...and mostly they should make a fighting game where mortal kombat vs. VF just to show you all how badly mortal kombat would fuck up VF.....NUFF SAID!! erm no, please don't post on this thread again that was just a waste of space, atleast the people argueing before give reasons why MK's gameplay was good even though they were proven wrong.

Since you have an obvious reading problem, I will say this only once more. Flaming will not be tolerated in this discussion, and if you have an issue with this I suggest not posting here. Please carry this discussion on without the use of derogatory terms, I very much do not want to end this thread.

OK im sorry but dont tell me i have a fucking reading problem ill admit i said some uncalled for "derogotory" things,im cool with it but i dont care who you are NOBODY tells me i have a reading problem ok? if you do it again im gonna put you in a wheelchair and have you reading coloring books for the rest of your life! ok im sorry i said a swear but i love mortal kombat and i dont want anyone saying that its not good. or comparing it too a lame game

~Crow~ Wrote: Since you have an obvious reading problem, I will say this only once more. Flaming will not be tolerated in this discussion, and if you have an issue with this I suggest not posting here. Please carry this discussion on without the use of derogatory terms, I very much do not want to end this thread.

ur-soul-is-mine Wrote: OK im sorry but dont tell me i have a fucking reading problem ill admit i said some uncalled for "derogotory" things,im cool with it but i dont care who you are NOBODY tells me i have a reading problem ok? if you do it again im gonna put you in a wheelchair and have you reading coloring books for the rest of your life! ok im sorry i said a swear but i love mortal kombat and i dont want anyone saying that its not good. or comparing it too a lame game ~Crow~ Wrote: Since you have an obvious reading problem, I will say this only once more. Flaming will not be tolerated in this discussion, and if you have an issue with this I suggest not posting here. Please carry this discussion on without the use of derogatory terms, I very much do not want to end this thread.

Making threats against me is not in your best interest, as you are already on poor terms with me. You do have such a problem if you did not see my warning at the top of this page. In reality, I did not need to repeat myself especially for you, instead I could have closed this thread. Sadly, I'm too lenient with you all. Flaming members is pathetic enough, but flaming a moderator is something you should watch. I really don't plan posting here again, unless it's with "thread closed". Cease your use of derogatory terms, because if I see this from you again I'll be removing you from these forums altogether.

ursoulismine: Just relax man, that's all Crow's saying. I don't want to see this thread get closed either. I don't like getting called names or derogatory putdowns any more than you do. Just be the mature one and either don't respond to it or respond without using putdowns that involve race or sexual orientation.

I just don't want to see this thread get closed because a lot of people on both sides of the issue are making very good points. I'm NOT telling you what to do at all here. I hope you don't think that. But let me give you some advice, if you don't mind:

See the other sides view, argue against it if you'd like, but don't waste your time with people that have to resort to name calling, it's just not worth it, and if you do, don't sink to their level.

Back on topic though, if I could give an opinion here:

I think the arguement goes back to the 2D versus 3D issue. I'm sure a lot of people on this board have been fans since MK1 and/or MK2. Back then, the point has been made, fighting games were simpler. Okay, fine. But now I think that there is a new group of fighting fans that don't like this approach.

Now I'm not sure if the people advocating for Tekkken, SC, VF etc either didn't like the 2D fighting games, got into fighting games after 2D games lost popularity, or have simply never played 2D fighting games, but there are fundamental differences between MK and the other 3D fighters.

If you take out the projectiles, the teleports, the simplicity, you take out the core of MK's gameplay. MK is not like Tekken, and I don't think it ever should be. Now if you grew up playing VF and SC, you might look at the old 2D MK games and think that they're flat out garbage, or, at the very least, what people my age might think when they look at games like pong: Old, outdated, ancestral to the more modern games of today.

The problem is that MK is trying to do something that no other fighting series has tried and succeeded at (yes, succeeded, so that doesn't include SF:EX), and that's bring a 2D fighting game, with its own pure, unique 2D style, to the 3D world. So yeah, MK might be behind the times, but it's had less time to evolve. Or perhaps maybe it's not a matter of evolution, it's a matter of finding a balance between the old status quo (traditional MK) and the new status quo (Tekken, SC etc).

I personally think that it's the latter. MK should not strive to be like Tekken or VF. It has never been, nor never should be that type of game. It should, in my opinion, attempt to create the best system within the MK:DA model. Projectiles, teleports, and a pick up and play quality. Translate the 2D world of MK that most fans here know and love into the 3D world.

Do I wish that MK had a few more throws? Sure. Would it be nice to see more combos? Of course. But just remember to argue in the context of what THIS particular series has been been. If you try to push 3D type counters, multipart throws, and realism on the fans of a series that has blood, fatalities, projectiles, and other such outrageous stuff, it just doesn't fly.

This isn't a matter of not liking projectiles or wanting uber-realism. I love the projectiles. Most people here do. I just wish I had a reason to use them. Sub-Zero's freeze is really not useful in the context of MK:DA. It's like Link's arrow in the GC version of Soul Calibur II. It's nice to look at but at even average level play, you're not going to hit anyone with it. As HDTran has said many times, because MK doesn't have a real properties system, most of the moves go out the window as useful. Why should I use a slower attack in DA when the faster one is right there at my disposal? We want more options than MK:DA offered. DA was set up a combo, rinse, repeat. That's really the only sucessful way to play the game. We want more freedom.

Good argument Tony, but what type of freedom do you want? I'm glad to hear that you don't want uber-realism, but where do you draw the line? That's not a rhetorical question, I'm seriously wondering.

When do you change MK to the point that it stops being what it has always been? Counter throws? Multi-part throws? Etc. I agree in your idea about having more options, but what type of options do you want? A wider variety of combos? I think MK:D will have that, I really do.

You draw the line at changing the style of MK not the engine. MK's style is based around it's story, characters, and mythos. It really has little to do with the fighting engine. Multi-part throws won't change that style.

Think of it like this. You've got Raiden. He's a freaking god so he should act like it. When you think of multi part throws you probably think of something like King from Tekken. Wrestling stuff. Well what if Raiden has a command throw that when you imput the first command he grabs you and puts you in a standard grapple. A basic headlock. Doing another combination will cause him to start running lightning through his body and, therefore, the guy he's holding. Bingo, one option. But let's say that there's another. After doing the basic grapple you can input a different command from the lightning one and instead of electrocuting the guy he throws him thirty feet in the air. The guy can just then fall and take damage. But, wait! There's more! Maybe after that command you can input an additional one and instead of the guy just falling to the ground, Raiden will teleport up to him and torpedo him downward chanting his famous "MY MOMMA'S FROM L.A.!"

See, you can take a basic concept like command throws and surround it with MK. Despite the general belief, the style of the game doesn't adapt to the basic fighting game elements. The basic fighting game elements are what adapts to the style of the game.

MK stops being MK when the design team forgets about things like Sub-Zero's freeze and stuff like that. As a matter of fact, a deeper engine can actually enhance the MK-ness of the game. Raiden doesn't really do much crazy god stuff in MK:DA but what I just described above is more like the things people would like to see Raiden do being this is MK and all.

Another example. Scorpion has his classic spear. The basic spear throw is there of course but let's say that you can input a command that puts Scorpion in a secondary stance from one of his styles. Let's say his new Moifah style has a mini stance where after inputting the command he pulls his spear out but instead of throwing it he moves his wrist in a horizontal figure 8 motion. Basically swinging the spear out in front of him. Any of the four attack buttons will cause him to throw his spear forward much quicker and in four different directions based on the button. Downward, upward, left, right, etc. If it hits the guy it acts as the same as normal. Draws the guy in for a free shot. Trick is, if Scorpion moves he automatically leaves this mini stance. He has to stand still. Also you only get one shot. Hit or miss, you leave the mini stance. Entering the stance doesn't take you out of Moifah. It still says Moifah at the bottom of the screen. Just what his standing animation looks like is different and he has a much more limited moveset. He can only use one move though before going back to the default Moifah stance. Let's also assume that Scorpion has a launcher in Moifah that sends the guy into the air. This launcher is very high risk so if it's blocked you're going to take a beating. But, if it does hit, the guy goes in the air and Scorpion automatically enters the spear swinging stance. This allows him to spear the guy out of the air before he hits the ground. You couldn't do this if you weren't in the mini stance and you gave the player a reason to use the high risk move. Something MK:DA fails to do. See what I mean by options?

These are all viable options. And the beauty of it is that MK stays MK. You don't see Gods tossing people in the air and crazy spear swinging stances in Virtua Fighter.

The sweetest part about all of it though, is that because there would be so many options none of them would be mandated. You don't have to use the multi part throws. You can stick to the dial-a-combos if that's what you feel works for you. But with a deeper engine, you won't have to use the dial-a-combos either. A person should be able to tailor his own play style based on the tools available. When the tools are so limited as they are in DA then everyone has to play the same.

I hope everyone understands that nobody, critics included, is looking to take away MK's identity.

Raiden is "God" tier, har har. Good points, Tony.

FLSTYLE Wrote: erm no, please don't post on this thread again that was just a waste of space, atleast the people argueing before give reasons why MK's gameplay was good even though they were proven wrong.

Opinion's of others can not be proven wrong. Just cause you along with others like VF more and gave points about the good doesn't make those facts. It all comes down to opinion on what game is better.

Some people like easier games that can be picked up and played, while some like very deep games.

VF is definitely more deep which can be a fact, but that doesn't make it better.

Also I give Boon credit since this is only his 2nd(1st true) 3-D game. Boon was use to 2-D games and MK ruled at that. VF,Tekken,DOA all started out as 3-D. I think he just needs to get used to it still. MKDA was truly the first 3-D game he made since MK4 was mostly a 2-D engine just just with 3-D models and side stepping.

I think everyone should just stop bickering like little kids and realize everyone will have their own opinion which should be respected by all.

-Mike

TonyTheTiger Wrote: You draw the line at changing the style of MK not the engine. MK's style is based around it's story, characters, and mythos. It really has little to do with the fighting engine. Multi-part throws won't change that style. Think of it like this. You've got Raiden. He's a freaking god so he should act like it. When you think of multi part throws you probably think of something like King from Tekken. Wrestling stuff. Well what if Raiden has a command throw that when you imput the first command he grabs you and puts you in a standard grapple. A basic headlock. Doing another combination will cause him to start running lightning through his body and, therefore, the guy he's holding. Bingo, one option. But let's say that there's another. After doing the basic grapple you can input a different command from the lightning one and instead of electrocuting the guy he throws him thirty feet in the air. The guy can just then fall and take damage. But, wait! There's more! Maybe after that command you can input an additional one and instead of the guy just falling to the ground, Raiden will teleport up to him and torpedo him downward chanting his famous "MY MOMMA'S FROM L.A.!" See, you can take a basic concept like command throws and surround it with MK. Despite the general belief, the style of the game doesn't adapt to the basic fighting game elements. The basic fighting game elements are what adapts to the style of the game. MK stops being MK when the design team forgets about things like Sub-Zero's freeze and stuff like that. As a matter of fact, a deeper engine can actually enhance the MK-ness of the game. Raiden doesn't really do much crazy god stuff in MK:DA but what I just described above is more like the things people would like to see Raiden do being this is MK and all. Another example. Scorpion has his classic spear. The basic spear throw is there of course but let's say that you can input a command that puts Scorpion in a secondary stance from one of his styles. Let's say his new Moifah style has a mini stance where after inputting the command he pulls his spear out but instead of throwing it he moves his wrist in a horizontal figure 8 motion. Basically swinging the spear out in front of him. Any of the four attack buttons will cause him to throw his spear forward much quicker and in four different directions based on the button. Downward, upward, left, right, etc. If it hits the guy it acts as the same as normal. Draws the guy in for a free shot. Trick is, if Scorpion moves he automatically leaves this mini stance. He has to stand still. Also you only get one shot. Hit or miss, you leave the mini stance. Entering the stance doesn't take you out of Moifah. It still says Moifah at the bottom of the screen. Just what his standing animation looks like is different and he has a much more limited moveset. He can only use one move though before going back to the default Moifah stance. Let's also assume that Scorpion has a launcher in Moifah that sends the guy into the air. This launcher is very high risk so if it's blocked you're going to take a beating. But, if it does hit, the guy goes in the air and Scorpion automatically enters the spear swinging stance. This allows him to spear the guy out of the air before he hits the ground. You couldn't do this if you weren't in the mini stance and you gave the player a reason to use the high risk move. Something MK:DA fails to do. See what I mean by options? These are all viable options. And the beauty of it is that MK stays MK. You don't see Gods tossing people in the air and crazy spear swinging stances in Virtua Fighter. The sweetest part about all of it though, is that because there would be so many options none of them would be mandated. You don't have to use the multi part throws. You can stick to the dial-a-combos if that's what you feel works for you. But with a deeper engine, you won't have to use the dial-a-combos either. A person should be able to tailor his own play style based on the tools available. When the tools are so limited as they are in DA then everyone has to play the same. I hope everyone understands that nobody, critics included, is looking to take away MK's identity.

Very good.

I still think it's hard to compare two different games. Okay, here's one: Which is better? Final Fantasy VII or Zelda: Ocarina of Time? Both are epic, multi-million dollar sellers with blonde heroes who battle epic, bad-@$$ villians in leather with giant swords. But... they're as different as can be. One is story-driven, the other game-play driven. On is CD, the other cartridge. Yadda yadda. Fans for both will argue their case, but, in the end, the best game is merely the game you, the gamer, like the best.

I, the gamer, like Mortal Kombat above Virtua Fighter. I have my reasons (several, including my history with MK, the game-play mechanics, the Fatalities, the characters and their designs, the story, etc.), and, ultimately, I prefer MK over Virtua Fighter, and I'm doing this completely unbiased, having played and owning both. If you like Virtua Fighter better, then it is the better game... for YOU. MK is my fighter, and always will be as far as I'm concerned. After all the hype from Soul Calibur, all the praise for Virtua Fighter, all the million-sellers for Tekken, all the Chun-li hentai for Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat remains MY game, and is MY best fighter. Fatality.

I think Tony makes some very good points. Unfortunately it's not like we can expect this style of game engine for MK:D but hopefully we can in MK7.
Tony's ideas for an MK fighting engine is almost exactly what I would like to see presented in MK games following Deception.

I have some ideas of my own for Kenshi and Ermac: Instead of having basic floorslams and telekinetic throws, players should be able to control Ke's and Er's telekinesis freely, for a limited amount of time, perhaps, represented by a 'mental power' meter. Only allowing them to use it for a maximum time of about 2-3 seconds. For example, playing as Ermac, the player has the ability access the telekinesis abilities by pressing in a command. From that point and for the next 3 seconds, the player has complete control of what/where/how he would like the enemy to be thrown around (multiple floor slams, thrown into the air for a juggle combo, thrown against a wall, or into a death trap). After this, the player must wait an extended length of time before Ermac's mental abilities recharge so that he can use them again, leaving Ermac with no special abilities in that period of time. Can you imagine a telekinesis war between Ermac and Kenshi?

Also, for Sektor, his heat seeking missiles should have limited use, say 3-4 per round, represented somewhere on the GUI. Only a desperate sidestep/jump/crouch should be able to avoid them. However, if the enemy manages to put Sektor inbetween the missile and himself (Jumping over, teleporting..) then the missile should automatically seek back to the nearest heat source being Sektor! Seeing him shoot himself would be classic!

The use of interactive backgrounds should be expanded ( although I'm currently pleased with the current situation ) to have more spikes and "things that hurt" around the level's walls and and floors. For example: being hit lighlty into a spike sticking out of the wall, will incur in a small amount of extra damage, being hit hard will penetrate the enemy's body, leaving them seriously hurt, or even dead.

Alot of the basic elements brought into MK:D by the team are awesome, and I can't wait to see how important the backgrounds will be for winning a match, expanding on these simple but awesome ideas will definately seperate MK from other games in the future.

Here's another thought... you know how on DOA3 you have like tag team combos, reversals throws, etc... well in MKT Noob Saibot had his shadow clone thing, so in using that, they could have Noob Saibot do a throw or sidestep and have him send his opponent into himself at a different location... I think Saibot's movements should be silent and fast and appear out of nowhere in these combo attacks, but I think it should be more difficult to pull off than the tag team battles in DOA3, because it isn't a tag team battle, its a one on one battle with someone that has the ability to make clones of himself...

Reptile using his tail more would be extremely useful and cool also. Using his tail in throws and whatnot, having different inputs after the initial grab with his tail slam the person on the ground or sling them across the arena, or a low throw/grapple from far away could be possible with his tail and making him more of a throw based character than striking... grabbing someone's foot with his tail and taking them off their feet, or using his tail in sweeping attacks, or spinning and hitting their upper body to stagger the opponent and then sweeping them with the tail...

I've listed something about smoke in another post, but it was similar to the Raiden teleport throw sequence stated by someone earlier...

later

Tony et all: I think that these ideas for moves are great. Awesome in fact. And Tony, your opinion that the number of options be increased for each character are both valid and well argued. Heck, when you were talking about Scorpion ripping a guy out of midair with his spear, my eyes lit up at just how freakin cool an idea that was. Obviously, you want to expand on MK, while keeping what makes the games what they are intact. I'm all for that.

I have been arguing against those that believe that MK's weak in comparison to VF, Tekken, and the like. These people seem to think that adding a more complex throw system, reversals, and removing projectiles would make the game better. But those kind of things wouldn't make MK better in my opinion. If anything, it'd just make MK like those other games, no different, thus losing all sense of uniqueness that this series has had.

I do think that certain things could be added to characters. Perhaps Jax could use his gotcha grab, but you control with the different buttons what type of punches he uses, or perhaps hitting the throw button could raise them up above him, still holding the opponents neck, and choke slamming him into the ground. I'm all for options. I just want, like many other fans on this board, to keep this game simple. If I wanted a complex fighting system, where each character had a hundred plus moves, I'd play Tekken, and I do, as I've stated already.

I noticed also that what most people have mentioned are simply moves. Adding moves. If that's all people want, then I'm not entirely sure that MK:D will be the disappointment that opponents are already touting it to be. Every character will have at least six special moves. Now we don't know what type of moves these will be. For all we know, Scorpion could use that very move that you suggested Tony.

I think that's why a lot of people keep saying that we should hold off judgement until we actually play the game. I know that we can get some good insight into the game through videos and what not, but I firmly believe that they only tell about 10% of what's going on in the game. Honestly, if MK:D is just a complete rehash of MK:DA, with no innovation or expansion in the ideas behind the actual gameplay, I'll be the first one to complain about it, but only after I've played the game.

As long as the expansion of options that you're talking about Tony remain within the realm of MK tradition, then I'm all for it. But I still believe that this has to be the case. Removing projectiles, taking out the teleports and unrealistic moves do not make MK better. They make it a clone of everything else out there.