I don't know what to think at this point. On one hand, I'm thrilled that this thread has such a good turnout and it appears that the gameplay conscious MK fans are speaking in a more united voice. But on the other, I'm pissed off that there's an endless flow of so called "better MK fans" that speak to us as if WE'RE the ones holding MK back.

WARNING: CEREAL MASCOT GETTING PHILOSOPHICAL AHEAD!

I've come to grips with the fact that we'll never be in the majority unless MK does improve and brings in the hardcore crowd that Ed Boon originally wanted to. But at the same time, MK will never improve unless the majority wants it too. Hmm. Lovely little circle. I do see a bit of a chance though. Basically it means a bigshot on the design team needs to somehow come in contact with these gameplay threads and not only like what he sees but at the same time also feel critical of his own game. Sometimes we can be our own harshest critic. It's almost futile though. The MK team is easily one of the most praised. They get their asses kissed by the media and press all the time. "Best Fighting Game of E3". In all honesty, if I made a product and people bowed before me every day I might start thinking the minority of critics didn't know what they were talking about. It all depends on what the MK team thinks.

We're lucky. Unlike other fighting game developers, Midway is based in the USA so western fans can voice themselves and actually be heard. I'm sick of seeing people waste that opportunity.

TonyTheTiger Wrote: I don't know what to think at this point. On one hand, I'm thrilled that this thread has such a good turnout and it appears that the gameplay conscious MK fans are speaking in a more united voice. But on the other, I'm pissed off that there's an endless flow of so called "better MK fans" that speak to us as if WE'RE the ones holding MK back. WARNING: CEREAL MASCOT GETTING PHILOSOPHICAL AHEAD! I've come to grips with the fact that we'll never be in the majority unless MK does improve and brings in the hardcore crowd that Ed Boon originally wanted to. But at the same time, MK will never improve unless the majority wants it too. Hmm. Lovely little circle. I do see a bit of a chance though. Basically it means a bigshot on the design team needs to somehow come in contact with these gameplay threads and not only like what he sees but at the same time also feel critical of his own game. Sometimes we can be our own harshest critic. It's almost futile though. The MK team is easily one of the most praised. They get their asses kissed by the media and press all the time. "Best Fighting Game of E3". In all honesty, if I made a product and people bowed before me every day I might start thinking the minority of critics didn't know what they were talking about. It all depends on what the MK team thinks. We're lucky. Unlike other fighting game developers, Midway is based in the USA so western fans can voice themselves and actually be heard. I'm sick of seeing people waste that opportunity.

lol on the philosophical mascot comment man. I see what you're saying, very good points. I think about it often too, whether the MK Design team really think their fighting system is the best due to American Home Console sales & the praise the get or whether they're aware of the issues the plague the game.

As an Aside: Which online versions are all the people on this thread going to be playing on? I own MKDA for my PS2 (which sports a superior pad for MKDA.. just couldn't bear using sticks for DA since it was so weird), but I'm going to get MKD for Xbox Live due to connection issues pretty much. I frequented Kaillera back awhile ago playing Alpha 3 a lot online, but even with a broadband/broadband perfect connection, people still had to play on good setting (20 frames per second) and since Alpha 3 runs at (30 frames per second) the game slowed down 10 frames every second to pace with the keystrokes. Anyways, technical stuff aside, I'm not getting the PS2 version because there might be non-broadband players on there as well as previous PS2 online games not connecting too well when I tried it at other places. So which MKD version are you guys getting?

TonyTheTiger Wrote: WARNING: CEREAL MASCOT GETTING PHILOSOPHICAL AHEAD!

I'll be picking up the PS2. It will actually be the first time I've ever gone online with a console, lol. So, we'll see what happens.

Oh, anyone know how the hell online service will be set up? Like, I take it there will be a fee, but what about servers? I'm praying we get to run our own servers and have server side settings for round count, time, etc. Meh...

Satyagraha Wrote: TonyTheTiger Wrote: WARNING: CEREAL MASCOT GETTING PHILOSOPHICAL AHEAD! I'll be picking up the PS2. It will actually be the first time I've ever gone online with a console, lol. So, we'll see what happens. Oh, anyone know how the hell online service will be set up? Like, I take it there will be a fee, but what about servers? I'm praying we get to run our own servers and have server side settings for round count, time, etc. Meh...

The PS2 version probably won't have a fee. The Xbox version has the Xbox Live fee, don't think there is a midway one ontop of that.
-PS2 Online allows Broadband & Dial-up.
-Xbox Online only allows Broadband.
Not sure about all the settings and stuff, but based on Capcom vs SNK 2 for the Xbox, you host games like Kaillera on their main server..like hmm.. Battle.net, etc. Therefore both people connect to the server and the server speed as well as distance and speed of the providers of two players come into play. In CvS2, the hoster decides all the settings and you can preview it, even though the setting is sparse and divided upto modes. (Arcade Mode, Console Mode, etc.) Console mode allows usage of modified custom colors and EO mode. (basically a newbie mode where you hit a direction and get a special move, a button and get a super, etc.)

DMitch Wrote: This thread had far exceeded its point. Enough arguing. CLOSE THIS THREAD!!!

Shut your ass fuckhole! (really, NOT just you, but all you stupid nubiles!) How do you people not see after 2 years how much MK actually does lack in what video games are created around? (uh, gameplay anyone?) It's not some fucking idiotic "final secret" (wah-wah cry me a river) that will drive fans away over time, it will be the shitty decision by Ed Spooge and his butt-pirate-producer (bl) that will continue to overlook other fighting games that are actually fighting games that actually focus on specific techniques the gamer can use and grow on, instead of taking a hint.

Saty was right... MK = Spam to the 10th degree... FUCK SPAM!

MENTHOL Wrote: God forbid people criticize MK.

God forbid ANYONE criticize MK!!!!!

Spooge, you know exactly what you ordered to have done yesterday... I shouldn't be the one to have to make you realize this... But you've just fucked yourself!

Would Vers, Saty, Bleed, TTT please send me a pm or an email to jay@schpfmut.com at your earliest convenience.

Thanks for your time and for listening to my heat. My comments are not meant to attack anyone here, just the fact that people say some brainless things.... And some "other" people *cough* spooge *cough* are just ignorant, too damn self-absorbed to realize people actually tried to help him, and to their face I would call to their attention by use of the N-word.... and i aint talkin about noob, beyotch!

Peace yaw!

MrSchpfmut Wrote: DMitch Wrote: This thread had far exceeded its point. Enough arguing. CLOSE THIS THREAD!!! Shut your ass fuckhole! (really, NOT just you, but all you stupid nubiles!) How do you people not see after 2 years how much MK actually does lack in what video games are created around? (uh, gameplay anyone?) It's not some fucking idiotic "final secret" (wah-wah cry me a river) that will drive fans away over time, it will be the shitty decision by Ed Spooge and his butt-pirate-producer (bl) that will continue to overlook other fighting games that are actually fighting games that actually focus on specific techniques the gamer can use and grow on, instead of taking a hint. Saty was right... MK = Spam to the 10th degree... FUCK SPAM! MENTHOL Wrote: God forbid people criticize MK. God forbid ANYONE criticize MK!!!!! Spooge, you know exactly what you ordered to have done yesterday... I shouldn't be the one to have to make you realize this... But you've just fucked yourself! Would Vers, Saty, Bleed, TTT please send me a pm or an email to jay@schpfmut.com at your earliest convenience. Thanks for your time and for listening to my heat. My comments are not meant to attack anyone here, just the fact that people say some brainless things.... And some "other" people *cough* spooge *cough* are just ignorant, too damn self-absorbed to realize people actually tried to help him, and to their face I would call to their attention by use of the N-word.... and i aint talkin about noob, beyotch! Peace yaw!

your comments are appreciated but you're just throwing abuse around, please don't do that again or this thread will be end up being closed when it needs to stay open.

back to the matter at hand i was thinking what the point was of having dial-up for PS2 it's too unreliable and slow to be able to keep up with Deception, i'm not expecting a fee for the PS2 either but if there is then not many people will get it dial-up, but i think it won't affect the amount of broadband users on the PS2 playing Deception.

I'm pretty sure that the PS2 version will also be broadband only. The developer can decide whether to allow dialup or not and in most recent cases, the PS2 Online games are often broadband only. It'll say either dialup and broadband or broadband only right under the PS2 Online symbol.

Please keep this discussion civil. If you need to flame others, or use a large amount of obscenities, then your opinions are not held in as high regards. In addition to causing you to appear foolish to your fellow forum members, it also will not be tolerated. Either debate things in a reasonable manner or you won't debate them at all.

I know i'd rather be fighting on versus mode of the various fighters than the extra games, they don't seem to be offering anymore than to provide a distraction from the main game, I know I've seen a lot of boasting about them from Boon + Co without seeing a great deal of good things about them, infact I thought they were stupid from the start.

~Crow~ Wrote: Please keep this discussion civil. If you need to flame others, or use a large amount of obscenities, then your opinions are not held in as high regards. In addition to causing you to appear foolish to your fellow forum members, it also will not be tolerated. Either debate things in a reasonable manner or you won't debate them at all.

See the thing is Crow, there isn't a debate going on here. There is just a ton of right and a ton of ignorance. I don't have a problem with people like cartmansp who realize MKDA/D's engine sucks total asshole and that MKDA/D is/will only be enjoyable because of all the others then gameplay. It is people like JadeMedli whoever or whatever that annoy the crap out of us thinking they know what they are talking about when they clearly don't.

This is a debating world we live in Crow, and I don't see why you would want to close a thread when there is a little heat going on. Let people be people. No one is getting hurt, and to me it seems like you guys are just trying to find a reason to close this thread because you know it is not good for your site or you just don't want to see the truth..or perhaps a little bith of both.

whao slow down there versatile, crow was just refering to that one person who went out of his way to flame for no reason(MrSchpfmut), the rest of the thread is no problem.

Versatile Wrote: ~Crow~ Wrote: Please keep this discussion civil. If you need to flame others, or use a large amount of obscenities, then your opinions are not held in as high regards. In addition to causing you to appear foolish to your fellow forum members, it also will not be tolerated. Either debate things in a reasonable manner or you won't debate them at all. See the thing is Crow, there isn't a debate going on here. There is just a ton of right and a ton of ignorance. I don't have a problem with people like cartmansp who realize MKDA/D's engine sucks total asshole and that MKDA/D is/will only be enjoyable because of all the others then gameplay. It is people like JadeMedli whoever or whatever that annoy the crap out of us thinking they know what they are talking about when they clearly don't. This is a debating world we live in Crow, and I don't see why you would want to close a thread when there is a little heat going on. Let people be people. No one is getting hurt, and to me it seems like you guys are just trying to find a reason to close this thread because you know it is not good for your site or you just don't want to see the truth..or perhaps a little bith of both.

I am not looking for any 'reason' to close this thread. If you read the Community FAQ, you'd know flaming other users is not tolerated here. I do not make special exceptions. My opinion on this matter has nothing to do with my reasons to want to close this if the debate drifts in an inappropriate direction; I'm simply enforcing the rules that have been set.

Before you ask why such a rule exists, allow me to explain it to you. People will have different opinions than yourself, and you must come to this realization. Forcing your opinions on other with the use of flames will not be tolerated. Rebuting is one matter, this is another. As for your comment on 'their' opinions being ignorant, that is your own choice. However, ignorance is something you cannot cure, no matter how many derogatory comments you include in your post. If your belief is that they are ignorant, then leave them be.

Do not respond to this message, as it will only cause this thread to venture off topic. If you wish for others to truly listen to you; convey your thoughts in a manner which does not insult anyone.

Continue.

~Crow~ Wrote: Versatile Wrote: ~Crow~ Wrote: Please keep this discussion civil. If you need to flame others, or use a large amount of obscenities, then your opinions are not held in as high regards. In addition to causing you to appear foolish to your fellow forum members, it also will not be tolerated. Either debate things in a reasonable manner or you won't debate them at all. See the thing is Crow, there isn't a debate going on here. There is just a ton of right and a ton of ignorance. I don't have a problem with people like cartmansp who realize MKDA/D's engine sucks total asshole and that MKDA/D is/will only be enjoyable because of all the others then gameplay. It is people like JadeMedli whoever or whatever that annoy the crap out of us thinking they know what they are talking about when they clearly don't. This is a debating world we live in Crow, and I don't see why you would want to close a thread when there is a little heat going on. Let people be people. No one is getting hurt, and to me it seems like you guys are just trying to find a reason to close this thread because you know it is not good for your site or you just don't want to see the truth..or perhaps a little bith of both. I am not looking for any 'reason' to close this thread. If you read the Community FAQ, you'd know flaming other users is not tolerated here. I do not make special exceptions. My opinion on this matter has nothing to do with my reasons to want to close this if the debate drifts in an inappropriate direction; I'm simply enforcing the rules that have been set. Before you ask why such a rule exists, allow me to explain it to you. People will have different opinions than yourself, and you must come to this realization. Forcing your opinions on other with the use of flames will not be tolerated. Rebuting is one matter, this is another. As for your comment on 'their' opinions being ignorant, that is your own choice. However, ignorance is something you cannot cure, no matter how many derogatory comments you include in your post. If your belief is that they are ignorant, then leave them be. Do not respond to this message, as it will only cause this thread to venture off topic. If you wish for others to truly listen to you; convey your thoughts in a manner which does not insult anyone. Continue.

Bleh crow..just bleh.

Well, I hope cancelling is in MK7. Imagine canceling out of ice shaker only to buffer straight into some wicked throw..oh wait a minute..this is MK..not a real fighter.

To make this post somewhat constructive, I am going to copy and paste one of Bleed's best(if not the best post in my opinion) posts about MKD. I disected it months ago and put my own flavor into it. This was back when I still had a love for MKDA and was JUST beginning to realize how bad it REALLY was. I was not upset or bitter towards any of my fellow fans, because I felt they would soon understand. Compare that Versatile to this Versatile. Notice by just simple conversation, we(on paper) created a game that would blow MKD to pieces. Now imagine what Ed and the team could do with some real effort..

"Well, it's 3:00 am right now, and Im pretty damn bored, so I guess I will just add some ideas to what bleed posted

"There could be special block, or evasion animations, for like a sweep, you would do a back flip."

Excellent idea! I think perhaps there can be 2 defensive buttons maybe? One for blocking and one for parrying? Parrying would throw the opponent's arm or leg or whatever to the side giving you massive frame advantage and free mix up. Blocking would work as usual, but like you said if the block is timed perfectly they'll do something else depending on the attack like a backflip. The real question is besides looking damn cool how would this effect gameplay? I wanna hear some more great ideas : )



"Look at Akira's high Reversal in VF4. He slaps the opponents hand then throws an elbow attack."

Oh I see...so when you parry by pressing a button immediately after the character would punish correct? If so, that's a really cool idea, and I think it would work a lot better than the reversals in MKDA.


"Also look at Steve Fox in Tekken 4 his counter is like this. Tap RP,> then tap LP."

Ok now this I am familiar with. I think this would balance out characters TREMENDOUSLY(SP!?!). In case those reading don't know what bleed is talking about, in Tekken 4 when Steve Fox is being punched you can tap triange~forward and he real do a punch parry. It will stun the opponent a bit, and if you quickly press square afterwards he'll do an uppercut that knocks them down. In MK6 this would lead to things like Oki or ground throws..too sweet!


"These attacks could be combo starters."

Yes, this is where diversity among character's reversal would come into play. Like everyone has them, but certain character's could have Just Frame reversal that if timed perfectly does either extra damage or knocks them into the air for a juggle.

"Another idea, is to combine 2 or more hand to hand styles in to 1 hybrid style, so you have one hand style, and one weapon style. It would depend on the fighters story."

Agreed, many people feel this way on the boards, bleed. Some characters just don't have uses for 3 stances. Some should just have 2 like Kung Lao(mantis and broadsword) while more intricate characters like Kitana could have 3.


"Also, make the fighting arsenals very intricate, more moves than in VF4, Tekken4, SC2. Beat them at their own game."

I don't think hardcore fighting fans like series like VF,Tekken and SC more because they have more moves, but because almost every single move for every character has some kind of use, and everyone plays totally different.

"If you use just frame moves, make it doable so it's not frustrating. Give the player at least 3 frames to react in."

Yeah, lets not make the Just Frames TOOOO hard, but make them hard enough to do to warrant the bad ass animation and the updated results.


"I have 3 examples for you.
In the MK movie the first one when Liu Kang fights Sub Zero. Liu Kang does a side kick, sub zero takes the hit, and links the falling back animation to a back flip, nailing Liu kang in the Jaw."

Heh...I remember seeing that very scene from the movie back when I was like 7..ahh..the memories. VERY COOL IDEA! BUT CHECK THIS OUT! What if liu kang punches sub-zero, sub-zero does back flip kick, but liu kang anticipates it and parries it,does a Just Frame Shaolin Cannon and launcher Sub-Zero sky high? It would keep players on their feet at all times making for quicker, more exciting gameplay. This "seasaw" effect could go very far..I hope Midway investigates this.

"And in the movie Fist of Legend. When Jet li fights his girls uncle. The uncle does a hook, Jet li is air born, spinning like a top, then while still in the air, punches the uncle in the chest, then lands on his feet."

Wow...I could just imagine that in a fighting game...wow.








"You could instead use a NEW version of the Juggle to be different. Instead of having the opponent bouncing like a volley ball, have them wobble while standing on the ground like they are dizzy."

I think the juggling system is really just fine the way it is. The only problem I have is how they ALWAYS fall down after 3 hits in the air and you have to "cheat" to maintain their float. I believe the next MK should take the approach of all other fighters and make it so the character slowly but surely "floats" away from the juggler.

"Also like in SC2 you would be able to get out of a ground juggle by holding the direction pad in any direction, causing your character to stumble in any direction. It gives you a chance to get out of major punishment."

That works in SC2 because SC2 is not a game about juggles, but in a fighter like MK where it's pretty much 50% juggles it would really hurt the system more than help it.

"Instead of just having a side step, make the characters do a cool evasion animation, depending on the attack. The fancy animation would link to an attack."

Sounds a bit too much like the "swoosh step" in MKDA. I think a regular sidestep would be fine.


“A lot of the combos in MKDA and every 3D fighting game are impossible, or impractical. You don't need huge combos, Max 2-7 attacks is good. Remember Every combo needs a variety of escape options. The only time a combo would be unblockable is if your character is Dizzy, or if it connects as a counter.”

Agreed once again..lol. Combos shouldn’t be too big and they shouldn’t do as much damage they did in DA. The only combos that should do damage of that caliber is counter hit combos. Like with Shotokan: if I hits 1,2 on CH they will crumble down. Then b+2 would be guaranteed and lead into another b+2,cs,1,2,cs like it did in DA. Or with Jax. His Muay Thai: 2,2 lead into a DAMAGING branch, this shouldn’t happen any longer. I believe Jax’s knee attack(3,3) should be slowed down big time, and if it hits on counter it causes them to crumple..guaranteeing judo: b+2 and a juggle afterward. I think certain things should be guaranteed NON CH and certain things shouldn’t be guaranteed non CH. Like simple jabs could be guaranteed on touch. Sub’s 1,2,Jax’s 2,2, Kung Lao’s 1,1 all should be guaranteed on hit, but full branches should be blockable. So 1,2 would be guaranteed on hit, but 1,2,4 would not be, nor would 1,2,4,cs,2,cs.

“Have it so you need special timing for linking moves, so you get rid of button mashing. Not impossible timing. Some combos will change depending on the timing, a different move may come out.”

Great idea once again. Timing should effect how a combo comes out. I also believe holding onto the button should increase the animation and perhaps do more damage and/or cause guard stun.

“When stumbling, you could tap block fast, so you don't fall down.”

Perhaps you could have a stamina bar. When the more full the bar is the easier it is for you to mash to not stumble down. When it’s really low it gets hard

“You should be able to chain special moves to combos, like in MK4, or have special energy moves for finishing combos, like extreme combo enders but restricted like a super move in street fighter.”

I think the special moves linking into combos would work only if combos weren’t guaranteed off first hit like in MKDA.


“You should be able to attack opponents when they are on the ground, like in Tekken, and VF. No super high jumps for down attacks like in VF4, it looks rediculous. Use Realistic attacks, and a lot of them.”

I don’t have a problem with the super high jump oki attacks in VF4. I think they are pretty damn cool, but they shouldn’t be in MK. MK already suffers enough from cartoonish moves and stuff, so I think a realistic oki game would help out a lot.

Besides having oki exclusives, certain moves that are non oki should work for grounded opponents. Jax’s ground pound, Bo Rai Cho’s stomp, Drahmin’s pound, hell fire, lizard ball etc would work for oki. Bringing back Sub-Zero’s air shower freeze would help, but you could also just make the ice shaker cover more of Sub’s body so it hits grounded as well. Grapplers like Kano and Jax would have ground throws too. Also, some moves should just basically hit those who lie down. Like sweeps and certain low attacks.

“There need to be close ups, and dynamic camera work when you connect with certain moves, or throws. Like in Tekken 4 or in the movies.”

DEFINITELY! Although this already in MKDA, I feel it’s not done for the right moves. Who cares if simple attacks hit. When moves like the spear or superman hit the camera should change angles or zoom in making it more dramatic so to speak. Just Frame moves should not only change camera angle, but I think they should instantly replay about 3 times to make it have more of a “wow” effect.



“There should be submission holds, or locks. Like when you locked swords in Samurai Show down, you would both be struggling, and whoever mashes the buttons faster would win, and go into their own lock, or a throw.”

LOL..well If you’d just click on page 3 or 4 you’ll see that I thought of that very same idea. I believe this would really help balance out weapons. It would work like SC2’s guard impact, but instead of repeling their weapon the character would clinch on and so begins the sea saw battle. If the player who didn’t do the “lock
wins then they will get some sort of free damage.

“There should be throw escapes, and throw reversals. “
I agree with throw escapes, but throw reversals? I dunno..it seems like a waste to me. No one expects throws, so no one is going to try and reverse it. I believe throw escapes are good enough.

“The throws should be really fancy and can be a regular throw, or a quick combo.

There should also be weapon throws, like in Soul Calibur.

Fansy!!!! Make the crowd go Daaaaaaaaaaaamn when they see it happen.”

YEAH MAN! MKDA really missed that “DAMMMMMMMMMMN! DID YOU SEE THAT?!?!” appeal like the old MK’s had. I like remember when someone pulled off a huge combo with Kung Lao when I was like younger everyone was just like “OHHHHH SHIT!” ya know? DA doesn’t have any moves or throws that make people do this, and I believe with a deeper system this will be possible. Everyone in DA plays all character pretty much the same way. I believe this should change by balancing out the stances and giving players more options.


“When you are attacked near a wall, and you spray blood, the wall should be stained, like the floor, and blood should run down too.”

I actually never thought of that, but since DA has no walls we’d need some before that would be a possibility..great idea though.


“Characters need awesome stand up animations, like in Devil May Cry 2.

Fighting stances need variety to look realistic.

Have it so when far from your opponent, your fighter will relax a bit, and lower their arms, and have a relaxed walking animation (8 Way) “

AGREED! As much as DA’s graphics were good, I feel most of the characters(with the exception of Jax,Scorpion and Shang Tsung) all felt VERY STIFF.



“You could also use the stage as a weapon, similar to power stone, but like for example. In Iron Monkey, there is a scene where the main bad guy, kicks some floor tiles on the ground, and they go flying towards the opponent.

You could even kick a chair to your opponent.

An automatic block animation would be like your character kicks the flying object, and destroys it.”
SWEET! Dude you should forget about design and consider pursuing a game design career..JK! But yeah, that would truly be cool man.


“Raiden's lightning should look like real lightning, and should shoot sparks, it if hits the wall.
He should also have his Superman move back, and it should go all the way across a stage, and if it slams you against a breakable wall, you should go through it, to the next room. “

Tightness once again. I think Midway did a good job with Raiden’s lightning, but they really need to work on his staff. I mean..play Raiden for about 3 minuites in Staff stance then play Kilik in SC2. Look how much he puts Raiden to shame.

Raiden would be the only character to do air juggles, because he can move super fast. It would be like in the One, with Jet lee, when he is attacking the cops, and they are floating in the air.

“Linking stances to combos is awesome. I'm talking about different stances in the same martial art. Like Ivy, or yung sung.”

YES! Combos that link into stances are some of the most pretty looking things in fighting games. It’s probably the reason why I use Hwoarang in T4(besides Hwoarang being a bad ass) and tried to learn Yunsung in SC2(too bad he sucks ASS).



“A suggestion for designing game play is to
sit and watch a kung fu movie with a controller in your hand and pretend that you are playing the movie like a game.”

A weird, but helpful idea. I’d check out Enter The Dragon, Fist of Fury, random Jet Li movies and maybe the Rush Hour movies so you can laugh and learn at the same time..heh.


“You could set the combos up with a tree branch system.

move 1 links to 2,4,8,1
Move 2 links to 5,4,9,6
Do this for every single move.

Even for ground attacks, and low attacks.”

Yeah, this is what a lot of fans, custom combos or atleast different options than the pre set ones.


“You need multi tired stages, like DOA2, not DOA3, falling from a roof top is too fake. Keep is semy realistic.

You should be able to slam through a wall to another stage.”

Well, since Boon said stage interaction will be taken to a whole new level, I would assume that they already have this in check, so I wouldn’t worry. I also think falling from a roof is just fine I actually think it’s pretty damn cool. The only realism the midway team should worry about is the moves themselves looking real. If a guy can survive getting a sword stuffed into a stomach a guy can survive falling off a roof.

“Take out crouching completely, no body uses the crouch. It is completely useless. Also you don't see it in movies. If you do have crouching, it would only be an automatic block animation. You could link Stand up attacks to the crouch evasion like in every other game.”

Ummm..no. I’ve gotta ask WTF you are talking about. The Crouch block is VERY USEFUL. It friggen avoids low attacks and it’s in every fighting game..maybe every fighting game ever made, so I don’t see why MK6 shouldn’t have it. It’s been in every MK, and it never bothered me.

“Multiple throw reversals back and forth, like in the movie with Jet lee called Fist of Legend, the fight with the blind folds.”

Yeah, mutli throws own. I’d check out Ganesha from Bloody Roar: Primal Fury for examples or even King/Nina/Paul in Tekken 4.

“Fancy Reversals

Check out the Reversals Pai has in VF4. the forward + pk, and down forward + pk. Very cool and fancy looking. I think reversals like that are a must.

Some of those reversals could be combo starters.”

Hmmm..unless it’s a Just Frame I don’t think reversal should be juggle starters, that is just screaming “BROKEN”. Lets not forget how one thing can break a game so easily.


“A big thing in kung fu movies is attacks going back and forth like block, attack, block, attack.....

This would be very satisfying to watch in game. If you could have the block work like a parry, similar to the parry in Street Fighter 3 3rd strike, there could be a couple frames after you block an attack, in which you could press punch, or kick to do a pre set counter move, depending on what block animation was used.”

Wouldn’t this be a reversal basically? I like idea. I love to watch hardcore players chill at the arcade and play SF 3rd strike. That game is just as fun to watch as it is to play IMO.


“Make the computer learn from it's mistakes, and adjust to an individual players fighting style, that would be great too. It would simulate playing with a real person.”

I agree 100 %. I know that VF4: Evo recruited the top players for the original VF4 and had them record the way they play into the game. Perhaps the top testers can put the way they play into the game. This would be great. If that’s not possible I atleast hope they can make the AI a LOT better.


“Have throws change animations when close to the wall, like in DOA3.”

Eh..why not just have wall throws period? That would be cool, and I don’t remember seeing that in a fighting game before.



“By the way, I might be getting a job as a Character Modeler at Midway. I took the art test, and they liked it, I just have to see if they are going to hire me.”

Good luck man."

Versatile Wrote: Notice by just simple conversation, we(on paper) created a game that would blow MKD to pieces.

I don't think there's anybody seriously participating in these threads who won't walk away with more knowledge than before. I know that I for one have learned tons of things about fighting games and as someone who seriously plans to start his own development studio, that's invaluable. I'm going to go through all these threads and copy every valuable post into a text file.

TonyTheTiger Wrote: I'm going to go through all these threads and copy every valuable post into a text file.

You should copy the entire thread as well. A lot of good rebuttals are here.

Yeah

I always take a lot of notes from threads like this too.

I'm designing a fighting game, and all of these debates help a lot when refining the little details.

If I ever get the chance to make the game I'll be ready to go. I already have a bunch of characters, and around 50 pages of design documents for just the game play.

It's along the lines of VF Tekken and SC, but designed to flow like a movie fight.

I'm itching to make a fighting game, but even if I don't get to make it, it's sill fun to work on.

Wow go away for two days and come back to find my first post disected yet again... and again.

First let me start by saying yet again, incase you missed my second post, I wrote that like I did for a reason. Was it to bas VF? No. Was it to be a MK fanboy? No. It was simply to prove a point. Point being that people on here who really like VF are craming your opinions down others throats through flaming (the majority anyway). And I write a post of the same nature only defending MK and immediatly get called a dumbass, a fighting game newbie, fucking stupid, etc etc.

It seems like you all want to shove your opinions down our throats and call it "fact", yet you cannot handle someone doing the same thing to you.

I will be the very first to admit that I think DOA has the best engine ever. I will also say that Tekken, while innovated at the time, has changed little since Tekken 2 yet people still love it. SC can still be won by a button masher (I have seen this on severeal occasions and not just happen to me). And VF for me is too generic and has very bland characters. Would I like to have 3 different options for attacking in MK off of a simple 1,2 combo? Hell yes! Do I feel the game needs to take ideas from other games to be fun? No.

A short story if you will....

I remember very well when a little game called Street Fighter II hit the arcades and completely changed video games, not just fighters, forever. And during the course of the next 6 years or so it seemed like every month there was a new clone of Street Fighter. Fatal Fury, World Heroes, and god knows how many more. And the only game that could hold a claim to fame was MK. Why? Because it was different that's why. It didn't try to be a SFII clone like everyone else did.

So now here we are 10 years later and it's still happeneing. Why does MK HAVE to be like VF? Why can't Boon do something different than what everyone else is doing? Like I said right above me there, sure I wouldn't mind if the combo system was a little more freebased, but I do not under any circumstances want the game changed drastically so it resembles VF. No offense to anyone, but if you want it so bad why not just play VF? Because you know MK, regardless of it's flaws, is still a fun game. More than one throw would be nice. But I'm not going to see here and cuss people out that might think differently. The bottom line is that MK is it's own game. It doesn't nor should it have to be a VF, Tekken, SC, SF, SNK, whatever...

Now with that said, what I meant by constructivly doing something... Why not just start a topic, "MK7 game ideas" Post there what ideas you have and things you would want to see changed in the next MK. I'm SURE a mod would make it sticky if you requested it to be. Just go there, post your idea(s), no debating, no flaming, no bickering. Keep it neat and clean. I guarentee it would have more of a chance catching someone at Midway's eye than this 12 page long flame war. Do you think anybody at Midway really wants to read through posts with people bickering for 3 pages? I don't think so.

Now with ALL of that out of the way... Yes I deserved flames after my first post and that's exactly what I wanted to get out of you all. If you can't take the heat then you (majority of you) shouldn't be flamming either. Incase I have yet to make myself clear.. I WROTE THAT POST BECAUSE I KNEW HOW YOU WOULD REACT!! I have never before on this board or MK:DA discussion board, ever, crammed my opinion down someone's throat like I did in my first post. And I did it to prove a point and that point was made. So, any further flamming towards me, I hope gets you banned. I think you all (again the majority) need to lighten up. Realize debate does mean stuffing your opinion down someone's throat. And lastly realize that just because it's your opinion that a certain game is better than another does not make it "fact".

JadeDragonMeli Wrote: Wow go away for two days and come back to find my first post disected yet again... and again. First let me start by saying yet again, incase you missed my second post, I wrote that like I did for a reason. Was it to bas VF? No. Was it to be a MK fanboy? No. It was simply to prove a point. Point being that people on here who really like VF are craming your opinions down others throats through flaming (the majority anyway). And I write a post of the same nature only defending MK and immediatly get called a dumbass, a fighting game newbie, fucking stupid, etc etc. It seems like you all want to shove your opinions down our throats and call it "fact", yet you cannot handle someone doing the same thing to you. I will be the very first to admit that I think DOA has the best engine ever. I will also say that Tekken, while innovated at the time, has changed little since Tekken 2 yet people still love it. SC can still be won by a button masher (I have seen this on severeal occasions and not just happen to me). And VF for me is too generic and has very bland characters. Would I like to have 3 different options for attacking in MK off of a simple 1,2 combo? Hell yes! Do I feel the game needs to take ideas from other games to be fun? No. A short story if you will.... I remember very well when a little game called Street Fighter II hit the arcades and completely changed video games, not just fighters, forever. And during the course of the next 6 years or so it seemed like every month there was a new clone of Street Fighter. Fatal Fury, World Heroes, and god knows how many more. And the only game that could hold a claim to fame was MK. Why? Because it was different that's why. It didn't try to be a SFII clone like everyone else did. So now here we are 10 years later and it's still happeneing. Why does MK HAVE to be like VF? Why can't Boon do something different than what everyone else is doing? Like I said right above me there, sure I wouldn't mind if the combo system was a little more freebased, but I do not under any circumstances want the game changed drastically so it resembles VF. No offense to anyone, but if you want it so bad why not just play VF? Because you know MK, regardless of it's flaws, is still a fun game. More than one throw would be nice. But I'm not going to see here and cuss people out that might think differently. The bottom line is that MK is it's own game. It doesn't nor should it have to be a VF, Tekken, SC, SF, SNK, whatever... Now with that said, what I meant by constructivly doing something... Why not just start a topic, "MK7 game ideas" Post there what ideas you have and things you would want to see changed in the next MK. I'm SURE a mod would make it sticky if you requested it to be. Just go there, post your idea(s), no debating, no flaming, no bickering. Keep it neat and clean. I guarentee it would have more of a chance catching someone at Midway's eye than this 12 page long flame war. Do you think anybody at Midway really wants to read through posts with people bickering for 3 pages? I don't think so. Now with ALL of that out of the way... Yes I deserved flames after my first post and that's exactly what I wanted to get out of you all. If you can't take the heat then you (majority of you) shouldn't be flamming either. Incase I have yet to make myself clear.. I WROTE THAT POST BECAUSE I KNEW HOW YOU WOULD REACT!! I have never before on this board or MK:DA discussion board, ever, crammed my opinion down someone's throat like I did in my first post. And I did it to prove a point and that point was made. So, any further flamming towards me, I hope gets you banned. I think you all (again the majority) need to lighten up. Realize debate does mean stuffing your opinion down someone's throat. And lastly realize that just because it's your opinion that a certain game is better than another does not make it "fact".

Okay, so you attacked people knowing that people with rebute you with facts in a tone just as harsh. I could have easily told you that would happen in ANY thread.

As for the rest, none of the posts are saying for MK to be like other fighting games, BUT there are fundamentals which make a fighting game good. Like the simple reason of using moves besides speed/power/delay. YOU KNOW that most of the moves in MK are worthless because MK doesn't have move properties and any other function than to do those 3. That's not enough because unsafe options are entirely wiped out of gameplay by anyone who is decent because they are easily blocked and retaliated with a combo. There has to be more of a reward, otherwise risk/reward ratio of those moves are pathetic, which is why 80% of the moves in MK aren't used.

Also at my university where Semi, Knockturnl, etc. play Soul Calibur 2, they have NEVER EVER lost to a masher. SC2 is very concise and simple because it is. But the depth comes in move selection, juggles, and pressure/frame advantage/thinking. You just need to think and react right in SC2. Mashing will get you no where because you will leave yourself open for the players that do know the safe options to poke the living hell out of you. If you lose to a masher, sure that's you and that's your opinion. However, average arcade level players and high-top level do not ever lose to mashers. Hell I'm not even average level at SC2 and I invite several friends over to do some console version SC2 and I CANNOT lose to a masher because it is so easy to block someone that's uncontrolled in soul calibur and punish them. You know, I always hear console people saying Raphael is Cheap or throwing is cheap or Nightmare is cheap, etc. when all those things are easily beaten and low tier. Raphael is low tier, throws get broken at high level play almost all the time, and Nightmare is low-mid tier. But SC2 is still very balanced, except for Yunsung and Raphael in the arcades, they can't ever win.

In MKDA, you hardly need to think. Simple reactionary things such as sidestepping, backdash cancelling, etc. are easy to manage on reflex. Mixup game is a shoddy low and mid game and combos are easily canned and spammed in the fastest manner possible.

Regardless, you cannot be beaten by a masher in Soul Calibur 2, if you do, you really need to train your eye-hand reflexes more by just playing the game and finding out the safer options. Because all the unsafe options are seen a mile away and easily blocked without a decent mixup game.

JadeDragonMeli Wrote: Wow go away for two days and come back to find my first post disected yet again... and again. First let me start by saying yet again, incase you missed my second post, I wrote that like I did for a reason. Was it to bas VF? No. Was it to be a MK fanboy? No. It was simply to prove a point. Point being that people on here who really like VF are craming your opinions down others throats through flaming (the majority anyway). And I write a post of the same nature only defending MK and immediatly get called a dumbass, a fighting game newbie, fucking stupid, etc etc. It seems like you all want to shove your opinions down our throats and call it "fact", yet you cannot handle someone doing the same thing to you. Now with ALL of that out of the way... Yes I deserved flames after my first post and that's exactly what I wanted to get out of you all. If you can't take the heat then you (majority of you) shouldn't be flamming either. Incase I have yet to make myself clear.. I WROTE THAT POST BECAUSE I KNEW HOW YOU WOULD REACT!! I have never before on this board or MK:DA discussion board, ever, crammed my opinion down someone's throat like I did in my first post. And I did it to prove a point and that point was made. So, any further flamming towards me, I hope gets you banned. I think you all (again the majority) need to lighten up. Realize debate does mean stuffing your opinion down someone's throat. And lastly realize that just because it's your opinion that a certain game is better than another does not make it "fact".

i understand how you're upset but i've just read through this post and the previous one you posted and most of what you've said has nothing to do with opinion, it's just wrong. If you read through threads like the MK Deception Gameplay Thread and the last few pages of this thread, read all the different forms of gameplay that are missing from mortal Kombat you can see it's obviously lacking, no-one is saying that Mortal Kombat should be like Tekken, Soul calibur etc. what people are saying that is Mortal Kombat is not good enough gameplay wise and that they just happen to be the best games gameplay wise, if you think different well you are disagreeing with 95% of the gaming industry, magazines, websites, people on this forum, people on other forums, when it comes to fighting on a fighting game these are better than Mortal Kombat, and the fact that you stick with the fact that you still disgree is getting annoying, everyone on this thread have given countless examples of gameplay that prove that they are right as well as proving people like you wrong several times, not by flaming but by using examples of gameplay that make a good fighting game that are lacking from Mortal Kombat and more specifically Deception.

Also in the post a few pages ago you've mistaken things like the definition of depth, you're really giving the impression that you don't understand what we are taking about and with the amount of people that have done that already people are getting annoyed explaining things to you and others so that we can continue with the conversation at hand.

everyone has also moved on from what you are talking about, it's old news and up to the point where crow intervined there was no-one flaming you, you were just being corrected.

right then back to the topic at hand.

Versatile Wrote: ~Crow~ Wrote: Versatile Wrote: ~Crow~ Wrote: Please keep this discussion civil. If you need to flame others, or use a large amount of obscenities, then your opinions are not held in as high regards. In addition to causing you to appear foolish to your fellow forum members, it also will not be tolerated. Either debate things in a reasonable manner or you won't debate them at all. See the thing is Crow, there isn't a debate going on here. There is just a ton of right and a ton of ignorance. I don't have a problem with people like cartmansp who realize MKDA/D's engine sucks total asshole and that MKDA/D is/will only be enjoyable because of all the others then gameplay. It is people like JadeMedli whoever or whatever that annoy the crap out of us thinking they know what they are talking about when they clearly don't. This is a debating world we live in Crow, and I don't see why you would want to close a thread when there is a little heat going on. Let people be people. No one is getting hurt, and to me it seems like you guys are just trying to find a reason to close this thread because you know it is not good for your site or you just don't want to see the truth..or perhaps a little bith of both. I am not looking for any 'reason' to close this thread. If you read the Community FAQ, you'd know flaming other users is not tolerated here. I do not make special exceptions. My opinion on this matter has nothing to do with my reasons to want to close this if the debate drifts in an inappropriate direction; I'm simply enforcing the rules that have been set. Before you ask why such a rule exists, allow me to explain it to you. People will have different opinions than yourself, and you must come to this realization. Forcing your opinions on other with the use of flames will not be tolerated. Rebuting is one matter, this is another. As for your comment on 'their' opinions being ignorant, that is your own choice. However, ignorance is something you cannot cure, no matter how many derogatory comments you include in your post. If your belief is that they are ignorant, then leave them be. Do not respond to this message, as it will only cause this thread to venture off topic. If you wish for others to truly listen to you; convey your thoughts in a manner which does not insult anyone. Continue. Bleh crow..just bleh. Well, I hope cancelling is in MK7. Imagine canceling out of ice shaker only to buffer straight into some wicked throw..oh wait a minute..this is MK..not a real fighter. To make this post somewhat constructive, I am going to copy and paste one of Bleed's best(if not the best post in my opinion) posts about MKD. I disected it months ago and put my own flavor into it. This was back when I still had a love for MKDA and was JUST beginning to realize how bad it REALLY was. I was not upset or bitter towards any of my fellow fans, because I felt they would soon understand. Compare that Versatile to this Versatile. Notice by just simple conversation, we(on paper) created a game that would blow MKD to pieces. Now imagine what Ed and the team could do with some real effort.. "Well, it's 3:00 am right now, and Im pretty damn bored, so I guess I will just add some ideas to what bleed posted "There could be special block, or evasion animations, for like a sweep, you would do a back flip." Excellent idea! I think perhaps there can be 2 defensive buttons maybe? One for blocking and one for parrying? Parrying would throw the opponent's arm or leg or whatever to the side giving you massive frame advantage and free mix up. Blocking would work as usual, but like you said if the block is timed perfectly they'll do something else depending on the attack like a backflip. The real question is besides looking damn cool how would this effect gameplay? I wanna hear some more great ideas : ) "Look at Akira's high Reversal in VF4. He slaps the opponents hand then throws an elbow attack." Oh I see...so when you parry by pressing a button immediately after the character would punish correct? If so, that's a really cool idea, and I think it would work a lot better than the reversals in MKDA. "Also look at Steve Fox in Tekken 4 his counter is like this. Tap RP,> then tap LP." Ok now this I am familiar with. I think this would balance out characters TREMENDOUSLY(SP!?!). In case those reading don't know what bleed is talking about, in Tekken 4 when Steve Fox is being punched you can tap triange~forward and he real do a punch parry. It will stun the opponent a bit, and if you quickly press square afterwards he'll do an uppercut that knocks them down. In MK6 this would lead to things like Oki or ground throws..too sweet! "These attacks could be combo starters." Yes, this is where diversity among character's reversal would come into play. Like everyone has them, but certain character's could have Just Frame reversal that if timed perfectly does either extra damage or knocks them into the air for a juggle. "Another idea, is to combine 2 or more hand to hand styles in to 1 hybrid style, so you have one hand style, and one weapon style. It would depend on the fighters story." Agreed, many people feel this way on the boards, bleed. Some characters just don't have uses for 3 stances. Some should just have 2 like Kung Lao(mantis and broadsword) while more intricate characters like Kitana could have 3. "Also, make the fighting arsenals very intricate, more moves than in VF4, Tekken4, SC2. Beat them at their own game." I don't think hardcore fighting fans like series like VF,Tekken and SC more because they have more moves, but because almost every single move for every character has some kind of use, and everyone plays totally different. "If you use just frame moves, make it doable so it's not frustrating. Give the player at least 3 frames to react in." Yeah, lets not make the Just Frames TOOOO hard, but make them hard enough to do to warrant the bad ass animation and the updated results. "I have 3 examples for you. In the MK movie the first one when Liu Kang fights Sub Zero. Liu Kang does a side kick, sub zero takes the hit, and links the falling back animation to a back flip, nailing Liu kang in the Jaw." Heh...I remember seeing that very scene from the movie back when I was like 7..ahh..the memories. VERY COOL IDEA! BUT CHECK THIS OUT! What if liu kang punches sub-zero, sub-zero does back flip kick, but liu kang anticipates it and parries it,does a Just Frame Shaolin Cannon and launcher Sub-Zero sky high? It would keep players on their feet at all times making for quicker, more exciting gameplay. This "seasaw" effect could go very far..I hope Midway investigates this. "And in the movie Fist of Legend. When Jet li fights his girls uncle. The uncle does a hook, Jet li is air born, spinning like a top, then while still in the air, punches the uncle in the chest, then lands on his feet." Wow...I could just imagine that in a fighting game...wow. "You could instead use a NEW version of the Juggle to be different. Instead of having the opponent bouncing like a volley ball, have them wobble while standing on the ground like they are dizzy." I think the juggling system is really just fine the way it is. The only problem I have is how they ALWAYS fall down after 3 hits in the air and you have to "cheat" to maintain their float. I believe the next MK should take the approach of all other fighters and make it so the character slowly but surely "floats" away from the juggler. "Also like in SC2 you would be able to get out of a ground juggle by holding the direction pad in any direction, causing your character to stumble in any direction. It gives you a chance to get out of major punishment." That works in SC2 because SC2 is not a game about juggles, but in a fighter like MK where it's pretty much 50% juggles it would really hurt the system more than help it. "Instead of just having a side step, make the characters do a cool evasion animation, depending on the attack. The fancy animation would link to an attack." Sounds a bit too much like the "swoosh step" in MKDA. I think a regular sidestep would be fine. “A lot of the combos in MKDA and every 3D fighting game are impossible, or impractical. You don't need huge combos, Max 2-7 attacks is good. Remember Every combo needs a variety of escape options. The only time a combo would be unblockable is if your character is Dizzy, or if it connects as a counter.” Agreed once again..lol. Combos shouldn’t be too big and they shouldn’t do as much damage they did in DA. The only combos that should do damage of that caliber is counter hit combos. Like with Shotokan: if I hits 1,2 on CH they will crumble down. Then b+2 would be guaranteed and lead into another b+2,cs,1,2,cs like it did in DA. Or with Jax. His Muay Thai: 2,2 lead into a DAMAGING branch, this shouldn’t happen any longer. I believe Jax’s knee attack(3,3) should be slowed down big time, and if it hits on counter it causes them to crumple..guaranteeing judo: b+2 and a juggle afterward. I think certain things should be guaranteed NON CH and certain things shouldn’t be guaranteed non CH. Like simple jabs could be guaranteed on touch. Sub’s 1,2,Jax’s 2,2, Kung Lao’s 1,1 all should be guaranteed on hit, but full branches should be blockable. So 1,2 would be guaranteed on hit, but 1,2,4 would not be, nor would 1,2,4,cs,2,cs. “Have it so you need special timing for linking moves, so you get rid of button mashing. Not impossible timing. Some combos will change depending on the timing, a different move may come out.” Great idea once again. Timing should effect how a combo comes out. I also believe holding onto the button should increase the animation and perhaps do more damage and/or cause guard stun. “When stumbling, you could tap block fast, so you don't fall down.” Perhaps you could have a stamina bar. When the more full the bar is the easier it is for you to mash to not stumble down. When it’s really low it gets hard “You should be able to chain special moves to combos, like in MK4, or have special energy moves for finishing combos, like extreme combo enders but restricted like a super move in street fighter.” I think the special moves linking into combos would work only if combos weren’t guaranteed off first hit like in MKDA. “You should be able to attack opponents when they are on the ground, like in Tekken, and VF. No super high jumps for down attacks like in VF4, it looks rediculous. Use Realistic attacks, and a lot of them.” I don’t have a problem with the super high jump oki attacks in VF4. I think they are pretty damn cool, but they shouldn’t be in MK. MK already suffers enough from cartoonish moves and stuff, so I think a realistic oki game would help out a lot. Besides having oki exclusives, certain moves that are non oki should work for grounded opponents. Jax’s ground pound, Bo Rai Cho’s stomp, Drahmin’s pound, hell fire, lizard ball etc would work for oki. Bringing back Sub-Zero’s air shower freeze would help, but you could also just make the ice shaker cover more of Sub’s body so it hits grounded as well. Grapplers like Kano and Jax would have ground throws too. Also, some moves should just basically hit those who lie down. Like sweeps and certain low attacks. “There need to be close ups, and dynamic camera work when you connect with certain moves, or throws. Like in Tekken 4 or in the movies.” DEFINITELY! Although this already in MKDA, I feel it’s not done for the right moves. Who cares if simple attacks hit. When moves like the spear or superman hit the camera should change angles or zoom in making it more dramatic so to speak. Just Frame moves should not only change camera angle, but I think they should instantly replay about 3 times to make it have more of a “wow” effect. “There should be submission holds, or locks. Like when you locked swords in Samurai Show down, you would both be struggling, and whoever mashes the buttons faster would win, and go into their own lock, or a throw.” LOL..well If you’d just click on page 3 or 4 you’ll see that I thought of that very same idea. I believe this would really help balance out weapons. It would work like SC2’s guard impact, but instead of repeling their weapon the character would clinch on and so begins the sea saw battle. If the player who didn’t do the “lock wins then they will get some sort of free damage. “There should be throw escapes, and throw reversals. “ I agree with throw escapes, but throw reversals? I dunno..it seems like a waste to me. No one expects throws, so no one is going to try and reverse it. I believe throw escapes are good enough. “The throws should be really fancy and can be a regular throw, or a quick combo. There should also be weapon throws, like in Soul Calibur. Fansy!!!! Make the crowd go Daaaaaaaaaaaamn when they see it happen.” YEAH MAN! MKDA really missed that “DAMMMMMMMMMMN! DID YOU SEE THAT?!?!” appeal like the old MK’s had. I like remember when someone pulled off a huge combo with Kung Lao when I was like younger everyone was just like “OHHHHH SHIT!” ya know? DA doesn’t have any moves or throws that make people do this, and I believe with a deeper system this will be possible. Everyone in DA plays all character pretty much the same way. I believe this should change by balancing out the stances and giving players more options. “When you are attacked near a wall, and you spray blood, the wall should be stained, like the floor, and blood should run down too.” I actually never thought of that, but since DA has no walls we’d need some before that would be a possibility..great idea though. “Characters need awesome stand up animations, like in Devil May Cry 2. Fighting stances need variety to look realistic. Have it so when far from your opponent, your fighter will relax a bit, and lower their arms, and have a relaxed walking animation (8 Way) “ AGREED! As much as DA’s graphics were good, I feel most of the characters(with the exception of Jax,Scorpion and Shang Tsung) all felt VERY STIFF. “You could also use the stage as a weapon, similar to power stone, but like for example. In Iron Monkey, there is a scene where the main bad guy, kicks some floor tiles on the ground, and they go flying towards the opponent. You could even kick a chair to your opponent. An automatic block animation would be like your character kicks the flying object, and destroys it.” SWEET! Dude you should forget about design and consider pursuing a game design career..JK! But yeah, that would truly be cool man. “Raiden's lightning should look like real lightning, and should shoot sparks, it if hits the wall. He should also have his Superman move back, and it should go all the way across a stage, and if it slams you against a breakable wall, you should go through it, to the next room. “ Tightness once again. I think Midway did a good job with Raiden’s lightning, but they really need to work on his staff. I mean..play Raiden for about 3 minuites in Staff stance then play Kilik in SC2. Look how much he puts Raiden to shame. Raiden would be the only character to do air juggles, because he can move super fast. It would be like in the One, with Jet lee, when he is attacking the cops, and they are floating in the air. “Linking stances to combos is awesome. I'm talking about different stances in the same martial art. Like Ivy, or yung sung.” YES! Combos that link into stances are some of the most pretty looking things in fighting games. It’s probably the reason why I use Hwoarang in T4(besides Hwoarang being a bad ass) and tried to learn Yunsung in SC2(too bad he sucks ASS). “A suggestion for designing game play is to sit and watch a kung fu movie with a controller in your hand and pretend that you are playing the movie like a game.” A weird, but helpful idea. I’d check out Enter The Dragon, Fist of Fury, random Jet Li movies and maybe the Rush Hour movies so you can laugh and learn at the same time..heh. “You could set the combos up with a tree branch system. move 1 links to 2,4,8,1 Move 2 links to 5,4,9,6 Do this for every single move. Even for ground attacks, and low attacks.” Yeah, this is what a lot of fans, custom combos or atleast different options than the pre set ones. “You need multi tired stages, like DOA2, not DOA3, falling from a roof top is too fake. Keep is semy realistic. You should be able to slam through a wall to another stage.” Well, since Boon said stage interaction will be taken to a whole new level, I would assume that they already have this in check, so I wouldn’t worry. I also think falling from a roof is just fine I actually think it’s pretty damn cool. The only realism the midway team should worry about is the moves themselves looking real. If a guy can survive getting a sword stuffed into a stomach a guy can survive falling off a roof. “Take out crouching completely, no body uses the crouch. It is completely useless. Also you don't see it in movies. If you do have crouching, it would only be an automatic block animation. You could link Stand up attacks to the crouch evasion like in every other game.” Ummm..no. I’ve gotta ask WTF you are talking about. The Crouch block is VERY USEFUL. It friggen avoids low attacks and it’s in every fighting game..maybe every fighting game ever made, so I don’t see why MK6 shouldn’t have it. It’s been in every MK, and it never bothered me. “Multiple throw reversals back and forth, like in the movie with Jet lee called Fist of Legend, the fight with the blind folds.” Yeah, mutli throws own. I’d check out Ganesha from Bloody Roar: Primal Fury for examples or even King/Nina/Paul in Tekken 4. “Fancy Reversals Check out the Reversals Pai has in VF4. the forward + pk, and down forward + pk. Very cool and fancy looking. I think reversals like that are a must. Some of those reversals could be combo starters.” Hmmm..unless it’s a Just Frame I don’t think reversal should be juggle starters, that is just screaming “BROKEN”. Lets not forget how one thing can break a game so easily. “A big thing in kung fu movies is attacks going back and forth like block, attack, block, attack..... This would be very satisfying to watch in game. If you could have the block work like a parry, similar to the parry in Street Fighter 3 3rd strike, there could be a couple frames after you block an attack, in which you could press punch, or kick to do a pre set counter move, depending on what block animation was used.” Wouldn’t this be a reversal basically? I like idea. I love to watch hardcore players chill at the arcade and play SF 3rd strike. That game is just as fun to watch as it is to play IMO. “Make the computer learn from it's mistakes, and adjust to an individual players fighting style, that would be great too. It would simulate playing with a real person.” I agree 100 %. I know that VF4: Evo recruited the top players for the original VF4 and had them record the way they play into the game. Perhaps the top testers can put the way they play into the game. This would be great. If that’s not possible I atleast hope they can make the AI a LOT better. “Have throws change animations when close to the wall, like in DOA3.” Eh..why not just have wall throws period? That would be cool, and I don’t remember seeing that in a fighting game before. “By the way, I might be getting a job as a Character Modeler at Midway. I took the art test, and they liked it, I just have to see if they are going to hire me.” Good luck man."

Read all of it and can't say much except that's some good shit. Also, a button for blocking and parrying might be something Pro-Simple that Boon would like. I mean I can't imagine Boon okaying a lot of even simple reversal motions for other games (like forward+block or back+two buttons), but hell, if it's a button he would probably okay it.

Also, how does everything think the Breaker option will work? I've been thinking about it since it was announced and either it's going to be really useful, or retarded. Here are the cases:

Useful:
The Burst Option like Guilty Gear XX, where you generally get a burst bar and based on the punishment you've taken is how fast you'll regain it. Burst out of any combo and shoot the guy back. In a 3 round match, this usually amounts to 2 bursts a battle. (Based on 2 years of experience)

OR

Individual breaks for certain stuff while you're in the air. EX. If you're being juggled and the next hit is a punch, you can do a punch break. Or if its a kick, a kick break. If its an elbow, an elbow break. If its a special move, it cannot be broken. Thus making the usage of moves in juggles more commonplace and useful, even though less damage.

OR

Only ground strings can be broken by simple motions. This would kill most of the ground chains and encourage juggling, of course it still has to be skill dependent. Maybe by increasing the complexity of the motions to break or different motions to break certain moves. (Breaking a punch, breaking a kick, breaking an elbow) OR (high/mid/low) OR for more complex (both)

OR

Both ground and air breaks, but individual motions based on joints, or hit section, etc.

Retarded:
After every block, if you do the motion fast enough, you can instantly knock them down. It's like classic breakers in Killer Instinct where you can just break it as long as you block. This break system only works in Vampire Series (Darkstalkers) since the game is so fast and chains are so fast. However, if anyone remembers Killer Instinct, anywho who was decent, the game was all breaking and there were no real ways to attack effectively.

OR

You can break anytime you're in the air without any effort other than motion. Meaning ground chains are again dominant and canned spam is unbreakable, but air juggles are.

I'm thinking it's going to be something like with break points.

maybe on every 3rd hit or so depending on the combo you can press the special button or something, and they will do some generic move to break the combo.


Or it could just be like if you tap block during a break point, you will be able to block the rest of the attacks.

IMO That sounds more like what they would do in MK, just a basic block or a generic breaker like in KI.

I guess that would work OK, but I'd rather have some really cool looking breakers that look more like reversals.

VF is very deep when it comes to the fighting engine but like many others have said, the characters, stories, and what not are just bland imo.

Also the only MK game I thought that didn't develop really well was MK4. MKDA should have been the first 3-D game. Then the jump from 2-D to 3-D would have been smooth for the most part.

I seen someone say MK has never had a good fighting engine or anything. No 2-D game(besides GGX2) has had a really superb fighting engine. I know UMK3 has way bigger and harder combos to pull off then any Street Fighter game or old fighting game for that matter. Also I can't compare VF or Tekken to the whole MK series since MK didn't start out in 3-D like Tekken and VF did.

As for the whole 3-D matter. I have always prefered DOA3 over VF and Tekken anyday due to the level interaction, not to mention the characters being alot kooler. I really like how MKD is coming along with everything.

The stages are interactive as all hell from the looks of things, people can be killed in an instant which is a first for any 3-D fighting game(makes it seem realistic), the fighting system is supposedly tightend up and made easier to move around in the back ground, add that all up to the great character roster in this game and you have yourself a winner.

If you're looking for the fighting engine to top the bars then you're looking in the wrong place since any MK fan knows MK was never about that. It was about pure fun. Easy to pick up and play with a friend but also had a deep enough fighting engine/combo system for those that good enough to master then. It was also the atmosphere, the characters and the gore which is still is to this day. VF isn't about that, it's more for advanced fighting players and isn't user friendly to new comes but it's still great. Just MK and VF are NOT alike. You gotta realize what you like more.

Seriously, look else wehere if you're looking for some top notch fighting game which takes alot of pratice because no MK game is about that and probably never will be. MK is the above average fighter these days with what is out. There are the really horrible games, then MK, then VF and Tekken. But MK wins the award in my book since it brings the most fun out and that's what all games are about.

VF4 is crap.

It may have good gameplay, but Mk can stand very well with its own.

What makes mk better then any other fighting game, is the "overall" power the game has:

All the elements, that includes the story and gameplay, make mk be the best.

VF is not crap, If it was it wouldn't be called the best fighting game ever made.


What is crappy is the story, but they make up for that with making the most important part of the game top notch.


If I had to make a list of my favorite fighting games it would go like this. Note, this is just for me.

1st is a tie between VF4E,T4,SC2 and TTT. I can't really choose which one is better, I love all of them, I usually play T4 the most.

2nd would be DOA3. I love the fluidity and the overall feel of this game, but the easy reversals bring it down for me.

3rd MKDA. There is a lot of kool stuff in MK, but the fighting doesn't really leave a good impression on me. Especially the unbreakable combos and the overall genericness of it. It just feels like it's missing some spice.

It's like I like it, but then I don't at the same time, but I see a lot of potential in it. I would be happy if it was at least around the complexity level of DOA3 but with Tekken style reversals, not the easy ones in DOA.

A lot of people hate DOA, but the only thing that really bothers be about that game is how easy it is to do reversals. If they made it like in Tekken or VF then I would love it.