Look overall I was happy with MKDA gameplay. That doesn't mean I think it was perfect but it IS accessible and HAS variety. I enjoy being able to use every character and be competitive which just is not possible in a complex game like VF. I can see it will be worked on and improved in MK Deception. Switching and combo breakers alone must change the gameplay from MKDA as they simply weren't present before.

Sure, there is always room for improvement but I personally would not want it so overdone that people can only ever hope to be good with 1 or 2 characters.

The thought of playing against 90% Sub-Zeros and Scorpions is to be brutally honest, boring.

There needs to be a middle ground.

So what I am saying is, yes, add a few more elements to the gameplay but don't make it so we can't still compete with all characters.

I know I am a true MK fan by the way. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. It's not a defineable thing. It's something you know in your heart.

Cheers.

LOL!! Just a random thought, but cartmansp, I'm listening to some happy hardcore and your "can't touch this" dancing foo' is so grooving, lol. Too good.

Satyagraha Wrote: LOL!! Just a random thought, but cartmansp, I'm listening to some happy hardcore and your "can't touch this" dancing foo' is so grooving, lol. Too good.

sumixam Wrote: Look overall I was happy with MKDA gameplay. That doesn't mean I think it was perfect but it IS accessible and HAS variety. I enjoy being able to use every character and be competitive which just is not possible in a complex game like VF. I can see it will be worked on and improved in MK Deception. Switching and combo breakers alone must change the gameplay from MKDA as they simply weren't present before. Sure, there is always room for improvement but I personally would not want it so overdone that people can only ever hope to be good with 1 or 2 characters. The thought of playing against 90% Sub-Zeros and Scorpions is to be brutally honest, boring. There needs to be a middle ground. So what I am saying is, yes, add a few more elements to the gameplay but don't make it so we can't still compete with all characters. I know I am a true MK fan by the way. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. It's not a defineable thing. It's something you know in your heart. Cheers.

*sigh*

*X*BloodyEyes Wrote: u guys are only complaining about the game...I would like to see u guys doing a game as complex as mk....don't complain about a game that u only SAW 20%...including the gameplay...so U Stfu...like, boon and co are giving us the things that we asked and begged for...and we still complain about...it must be too frustrating for them... I repeat it AGAIN THANK YOU BOON...and listen to those guys...they know what they're talking about...they're experienced when it comes to diss PERFECT GAMES

nothing is perfect and mkda is far from it. i never begged for more and better fatalities. i wanted and asked for deeper gameplay and a much better fighting engine. they could have kept one fatal per character if the fighting engine was good, i wouldnt care. i just dont want extras covering up a bad fighting engine. sometimes it feels like boon hears us and fixes only the easiest things (more fatals, multi tier levels) and hopes we look forward to that more than the bigger, more difficult things to fix (fighting engine, balance).

sumixam Wrote: Look overall I was happy with MKDA gameplay. That doesn't mean I think it was perfect but it IS accessible and HAS variety. I enjoy being able to use every character and be competitive which just is not possible in a complex game like VF. I can see it will be worked on and improved in MK Deception. Switching and combo breakers alone must change the gameplay from MKDA as they simply weren't present before. Sure, there is always room for improvement but I personally would not want it so overdone that people can only ever hope to be good with 1 or 2 characters. The thought of playing against 90% Sub-Zeros and Scorpions is to be brutally honest, boring. There needs to be a middle ground. So what I am saying is, yes, add a few more elements to the gameplay but don't make it so we can't still compete with all characters. I know I am a true MK fan by the way. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. It's not a defineable thing. It's something you know in your heart. Cheers.

errrr no what you've described is everyone on the forum, the difference being some people want the series to become better before it's too late, others are happy with anything even if it's plainly not good enough for today's standards.

these kind of "blind" fans will be it's death, all this praise about fatalities, storyline and extras is just encouraging boon + co more + more to send out crap fighting games, at this rate it won't last long.

The same thing happened to Street Fighter when it went 3D, many of us tried out best to convince capcom to do something to make the fighting engine better for the 3D environment, but they did nothing and now Street fighter games are dead, with the exception of hyper street fighter. but thats not really a new game, it's just their version of MK Trilogy 10 years too late.

This will happen to Mortal Kombat, in 10 years time Boon+Co will be re-realising MK trilogy as a rememberence of gaming history.

This must be stoped before it's too late.

IMO,
Things that I don't like about MK: DA;
Ring Walls, Plastic like Character models and the combo system: I always felt there is something wrong with it... the animations are not that fluid (except scorpion hapkido)... and lack of manual combos and simple moves like sweeps, uppercuts, roundhouse kicks... if two people want to play in vs. mode they both need to know and memorise the "COMBOS"....

but there is a truth MK: DA sold good... and it made the MK series gain the attention and attitude it deserves... and overall I think MK: DA is a "GOOD" game...

Now I think MK: D needs; Sweeps, uppercuts roundhouse kicks... but with the same button combination for every character... and some easy to pull out combos like A,A,A or B,A,B... and some more complex combos and most importantly fluid animation sets... combo breakers... not reversals like MK: DA hehe you must first switch to Pi Gua and make a reversal... not for me... I won't memorise which styles have reversals... and more realistic looking throws...

I must say I LOVE MK, I remember "when I was a child" running to arcades after school and spending 20-25 coins for Mortal Kombat and Mortal Kombat 2.... those days were great...

and Lastly: a fighting system including both easy to pull out combos and complex combos... and more spectecular hits like roundhouses and uppercuts...

"Now and days everybody wanna talk like they got somethin to say, but nuttin cums out when they move their lips, just a bunch of jibberish, and motha fuckaz act like they forgot gameplay."

Versatile Wrote: "Now and days everybody wanna talk like they got somethin to say, but nuttin cums out when they move their lips, just a bunch of jibberish, and motha fuckaz act like they forgot gameplay."

..... dont write that again

Interesting posts. very interesting posts...

I would like more depth and authenticity to the fighting styles but at the same time, i want MK to keep its unique flavors if you know what i'm saying. but still, i think MK Deception is going to kick ass nonetheless.

Sub-Zero_7th Wrote: Interesting posts. very interesting posts... I would like more depth and authenticity to the fighting styles but at the same time, i want MK to keep its unique flavors if you know what i'm saying. but still, i think MK Deception is going to kick ass nonetheless.

it will do game sales wise but what will they do when they've run out of new extras and done everything possible to the online modes, a time will come when Mortal Kombat will have to rely on gameplay, i'm a bit worried about when and what will happen when that time comes to say the least

I've noticed that there's an arguement going around that people don't want MK to be "like those other games (VF, Tekken, etc)" because you can't get good with more than one character in those games. It's too complex. I don't know if it's been addressed but I want to say that's BS. There's basics within the system of a game allowing someone who understands the system itself to be at least competent with every character. The only time going so far in depth with one character is a necessity is if you're preparing for the top national tournaments. This all becomes a moot point then because how many of you guys are top tourney level players? I know I'm not. But how many of you would want to participate in top MK tournaments? What's that? There are no top MK tournaments? Hmm. How to fix that. Oh yeah! Make MK a game that allows more options and not just memorization of strings. See, it doesn't matter if you're the best in the world with all of DA's 23 characters. There's no outlet for you to bring that into the community. Even if Deception is online, it's not going to be the only game. Online is going to become more and more common for fighting games. Guilty Gear X2 #Reload, DOA Ultimate, and future games will be online. MK can't even call that it's own. It needs to be able to compete on equal terrain.

TonyTheTiger Wrote: I've noticed that there's an arguement going around that people don't want MK to be "like those other games (VF, Tekken, etc)" because you can't get good with more than one character in those games. It's too complex. I don't know if it's been addressed but I want to say that's BS. There's basics within the system of a game allowing someone who understands the system itself to be at least competent with every character. The only time going so far in depth with one character is a necessity is if you're preparing for the top national tournaments. This all becomes a moot point then because how many of you guys are top tourney level players? I know I'm not. But how many of you would want to participate in top MK tournaments? What's that? There are no top MK tournaments? Hmm. How to fix that. Oh yeah! Make MK a game that allows more options and not just memorization of strings. See, it doesn't matter if you're the best in the world with all of DA's 23 characters. There's no outlet for you to bring that into the community. Even if Deception is online, it's not going to be the only game. Online is going to become more and more common for fighting games. Guilty Gear X2 #Reload, DOA Ultimate, and future games will be online. MK can't even call that it's own. It needs to be able to compete on equal terrain.

when these and other games become online, and they start to have their own online extra modes made, Deception's main difference from Deadly Alliance, their new modes, will no longer stand out as something that great, and the big changes will have to come in the form of the fighting engine.

Admittidly i'm not expecting Deception to come without improvements in gameplay, but as mentioned before, no-one incuding Boon is exactly boasting about the gameplay so i'm thinking if not in Deception, these big gameplay improvements will have to come in the form of MK7.

I'm not saying Mortal Kombat should head down the road of realism like Tekken VF etc. because Mortal Kombat is about fantasy, not realism, but there is a point where you have to say, a fighting game must be good in the fighting section.

Hopefully Deception when it arrives, might have improved from Deadly Alliance, but i'm not expecting that big of a leap, which isn't good for the series, hopefully i'm wrong but at this rate without significant changes Deception will become the 1st game in a big line of fighters, that isn't any good at fighting.

How could anyone say the engine itself is not good enough.. I don't know about that one.

It provides perfect perception and movement. It's all in the animation. Fluidity of one move to the next and then input on how to do the moves, how they interact with the other model.. etc.. many people enjoy playing DA, I myself was whooping ass with Kano last night..

If MK7 doesn't have superb fighting I'm going to be angry. I gave them a chance with DA (it is afterall their 1st shot at this sort of fighting mechanic) and they did OK IMO and now with Deception they did SEEM to improve upon things fighting wise, hopefully they add plenty more moves and ways to use them manually.. I'm not holding my breath, though.

But because this is MK, because I grew up on the series and Im so use to its simplicity.. I just dont CUR.

Tekken 5, DOAU, and Durpety Durpy Dee will be right there next to MK:DA and MK:D.

Hmmm..yeah, I don't think MK: Deception will make too big of a leap in evolution from MK: DA but there will be improvements and such.

I think that other fighters such as Tekken and Guilty Gear need to improve as well because they seem to have familiar fighting engines. What I mean is that Tekken seems to be using the same fighting engine with every Tekken game. And with Guilty Gear, the fighting is pretty much like that of Capcom vs. SNK or Street Fighter.

When I play the MK games, I do see evolution in the gameplay. Maybe it's not the biggest of evoultions but at least they do make improvements and such so I think that they are on the right track to making their fighting system better and better.

Sub-Zero_7th Wrote: Hmmm..yeah, I don't think MK: Deception will make too big of a leap in evolution from MK: DA but there will be improvements and such. I think that other fighters such as Tekken and Guilty Gear need to improve as well because they seem to have familiar fighting engines. What I mean is that Tekken seems to be using the same fighting engine with every Tekken game. And with Guilty Gear, the fighting is pretty much like that of Capcom vs. SNK or Street Fighter. When I play the MK games, I do see evolution in the gameplay. Maybe it's not the biggest of evoultions but at least they do make improvements and such so I think that they are on the right track to making their fighting system better and better.

I noticed that too, that when i play Tekken games they all use similiar fighting engines, but it's a damn good engine, only now 10 years on from using it are people beggining to complain about it, whereas i've noticed that right from the start Deadly Alliance needed improvements, my imaginary hat goes off to Boon+Co, coming from a 2D game into 3D game isn't easy as proved by other games that tried to do the same, but they shouldn't stop there, they should continue to improve, hopefully Deception will have done this, i'm certainally impressed with their new characters so far, Hotaru looks like 1 hell of a fighter, hopefully all this mystery about him and the other characters can be backed up with some good fighting styles, i can't really see a samurai throwing fantasy projectiles like sub-zero and scorpion though, possibly take reiko's MK4 projectiles into the next gen consoles with hotaru, or maybe bow and arrows??? like they do in "the Last Samurai" that can be his special and his sword/s can be his weapon style.

Hotaru is quite interesting. He has a lava blast attack and a flying kick from what I've seen so far. I think the Naginata (Halberd) is a good weapon for him and Goju-Ryu, a style of Japanese Karate is good for him too.

Anyway, the MK: DA fighting engine does need improvements, lots of them. As for the Tekken fighting system, it is deep and all but I do feel that it's not without its flaws and they should try to enhance things with each Tekken game instead of just slapping on the same fighting engine every time.

I think MK can go quite far and it does seem to have improvements with each game though at the same time, there are still many more improvments that need to be made.

For example, styles like Hapkido and Ninjitsu use a lot of grappling moves. Hapkido's grappling moves come from Daito-Ryu Aiki-Jujitsu while Ninjitsu's grappling moves do vary in origin with each Ninjitsu style though there are many similiarities in Ninjitsu's grappling moves to that of Jujitsu's and Judo's grappling moves.

Anyway, my point is that in the MK games, Ninjitsu and Hapkido as well as other styles such as Shuai Chiao, Judo, Aikido, etc should have a lot of grappling techinques in it. This way, there'll be more depth and authenticity. And there also needs to be a huge evolution in the blocking/defensive system.

But still, I don't expect too much from them but I'm sure that even though MK: Deception will probably lack depth in the fighting engine and will need improvements, I think the fighting engine will still be good and fun.

TonyTheTiger Wrote: I've noticed that there's an arguement going around that people don't want MK to be "like those other games (VF, Tekken, etc)" because you can't get good with more than one character in those games. It's too complex. I don't know if it's been addressed but I want to say that's BS. There's basics within the system of a game allowing someone who understands the system itself to be at least competent with every character. The only time going so far in depth with one character is a necessity is if you're preparing for the top national tournaments. This all becomes a moot point then because how many of you guys are top tourney level players? I know I'm not. But how many of you would want to participate in top MK tournaments? What's that? There are no top MK tournaments? Hmm. How to fix that. Oh yeah! Make MK a game that allows more options and not just memorization of strings. See, it doesn't matter if you're the best in the world with all of DA's 23 characters. There's no outlet for you to bring that into the community. Even if Deception is online, it's not going to be the only game. Online is going to become more and more common for fighting games. Guilty Gear X2 #Reload, DOA Ultimate, and future games will be online. MK can't even call that it's own. It needs to be able to compete on equal terrain.

I agree whole-heartedly TonyTheTiger, I was wondering when someone was going to address this. And, you took the words right out of my head.

You don't see that many changes in games like Tekken now days because what they are changing are the little details.

Frames

Juggle height

Just frame moves

buffering

more combos

Different movement



It's all little things now, because they already took the huge steps with the older games.

Once you get to a certain level, the main changes you are going to see are in the little details.


There are still a lot of things to do though, none of these games are perfect.

When they mentioned the game was 20%, if i'm not mistaken they meant only 20% of the game was shown at E3. (a few characters/backgrounds, first part of Konquest etc.) Not that the game was 20% complete! I'm pretty sure it was said that it's closer to 75-80%. I don't think that this comeback is justified, at 80% the core of the game should be pretty much finalised and now they should be polishing it up/playtesting/fixing bugs.

And hopefully adding a few late additions to the core gameplay (if they can)

I agree Who the Fuck wants a big leap as long as the fightings better then DA thats all. If not I'll live so will you.

I'll be more specific on what I want MK to be. I want MK to be a perfect balance between simplicity and complexity. I don't want MK to be completely simple because simple games get stale and repeatitive once you've learned everything about it. Your options are very limited and the replay value is very low. I don't want MK to be too deep because deep fighting games can get very frustrating. I have to spend so much time practicing with a certain character, learning his/her strenghts and weaknesses. Also, I have to learn the gameplay mechanics or else I'll be no match for a computer controlled fighter. Although I have much more options, It doesn't make up for the time I wasted training with a certain character for so long.

I want MK to balance these two ideas, sort of like Super Smash Brothers Melee. SSBM is simple and complex at the same time. In SSBM, a button masher and complex fighter are evenly matched. If a player wants to use simple fighting skills he can, and if a fighter wants to use deep gameplay stratagies he can. Also, you don't have to learn all of the gameplay skills to fight evenly among other fighters. It stays fun and deep. That's probably why SSBM has so much replay value.

Yeah, I would be pretty happy with a more complex MK.

It doesn't have to be quite as complex as the other games, but I don't want it to be too simple either.

I never played smash bros, so I can't judge on that one.

Bleed Wrote: ...I never played smash bros...

*gasp*

Cartman I think you and I are pretty much saying the same thing.

Sure, add some depth.

Just don't overdo it.

MK online will be a reality and I for one would like to be competitive with all characters online. Not just 1 or 2. Variety in character usage does add longevity as well. I enjoyed learning 2 VF fighters but wished I could be good with them all, like I can be in MK.

I know I don't speak for everyone but surely others must feel this way.

Tony you put up a sensible reply to my personal reservations and I understand what you are saying. I don't care about being the worlds best player either but I'd like to go online and compete strongly, most of the time, even if it's a random select tournament, against average, even weaker players like myself.

Verse I read all of your ideas in another thread and think you have some brilliant ideas. I really hope some of those things are incorporated. Unfortunately I will never have the time to learn all of that stuff for one character, yet alone go online and use anyone and enjoy the gaming.

Hope you guys see where I am coming from as well. I want to learn Sektor, Raiden and Kira at this stage but I'd like to go well with anyone else at the same time.

May we get MKs in the future that most of us love.