Interesting.

Q?: Can you explain to me what the problem is with Sub-Zero's ice clone in close like that? "Why is it bad"? What should it be? ect...

I see the other stuff you're talking about, and I thought that it was quite funny that I pegged the close combat for MKA's KAF revamped when I first seen it back in April.

Something else that's prett funny is, as much as they're promoting the transitional fighting in the game, there's still stuff that is cinematic. Like the running through the building bit.

Shouldn't we have had control during that transition too? Heh..

One more thing that I noticed is that "3 hit" combo that they have in there. Looks like it's still dialed, and as you said, the end move can switch up a bit. It's going to be interesting if at E3, they show what a longer combo looks like. Both uninterrupted, and interrupted by cancels or parrys or throws. I wanna see how that's handled with this new engine. Oh, did you notice the parry during the close combat?

Good anylist though man. More people need to be able to see, and come to terms with these things so we can get a better playing experience out of it.

So far, it still looks old. But I'm still gonna hold off to definitively judge it.

the problem is that sub can walk right up to u, do D-U-(whatever the button is) and have a shield, and an extremly close range. we do not no what happens if shes not attacked, we dont no if he stays frozen for a couple of seconds, leaving him open to attack with a special, or if he goes rigth into the uppercut from behind, making that part blockbale and punishable.

Nice sig redsaleen02.

do you have an S7?
or a mustang

I agree with you Red concerning Sub's new "self clone" move, that move appears to be very cheesy/broken, but at the same time this is a very, very early build so to be fail to Midway/DC etc I'll hold with any hard criticism, but definitely feel that move needs to be fleshed out better.

The universal combos, honestly I wouldn't mind this as much as the problems as with MKD/MKA for example, mainly MKD....but anywho since there's no more dial ups I really have to disagree with you on the repetitive bit, you see in MK4 everyone shared the same boring, dial ups, thus combos were predictable and boring at times, with special moves making the only difference.

However, in this game everyone will have different specials, 6 specials to be exact and I believe it'll be like Check once said given the Special attacks being 6 per guy which is a lot, it'll come down to special attack kombat more then anything.

The chain attacks will take some getting used to but I think combined with the specials, I think this game is looking more like a combination between MK2 and MK4 in terms of limits, now I know some people had issues with the max damage, but honestly I didn't....reason why I didn't is because its for one. A. one of those MK games that had VERY difficult infinites as oppose to the previous two, so in that sense it's way more playable, less broken. Boring and predictable? Yes, but at least I know the chances of someone nailing me in an infinite combo are near to none.

We'll see how it shapes up and will get a better idea at E3.

Another thing that I noticed you didn't post much about that I wish to is this, Boon in prior interviews mentioned a "counter system" in which we saw in one of those clips the question is, is it a "parry" or "reversal" or "throw escape of some kind? Honestly, I don't care as long as it works.

There's also I believe the wake up system back again in terms of staying on the ground, I noticed in two different shots of Shang Gameplay, after getting knocked down twice, he stayed on the ground a little longer then in another shot after getting knocked down, so I'm curious to see how that shapes up.

I didn't notice any "wake up attacks" which is alright by me considering the change of gameplay in this game. With the last engine, it was necessary with this one, seems like they do something different or play around with other options honestly.

I won't judge this game "fully" until I've actually played it, MKA was easier to get an idea on because it was the same engine for the most part as MK:DA and MKD, however this game being that nobody has played it yet except Midway can't really judge until the game is actually out. My opinion.

I wonder what Malone would think about this first gameplay update honestly, and Check too.

Have a shield? You mean, just because he can perform the move that close, it's kinda like a free shot at the opponent if they take the bait?

If that's what you mean, it seems like that's the point of the move in the first place. You gonna have to explain that part to me...
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Other than that, the way you explianed it makes the move seem extremely pre-determined. I mean, if he freezes himself, and goes right into the uppercut, we can anticipate it, and move, or block, or side step, or parry, counter, or maybe even "dash" out of the way of the blow. Animation and the camera's gonna have to be on point if that's the case though.

But, I wouldn't want all that to be tied together. Seems like they'd be promoting a glitch if it's all attached like that. What I don't like about that possibility, is that that animation doesn't give us the same control over the move that we had back in MK3->> It's all pre-determined if you choose to perform that move. Nobody will want to use it online.

I know I really would'nt want to be punished for simply doing that move. Some of you guys see those types of moves coming before I even perform them. haha...

I think it'd be better if he "summoned" his clones in that case. At least it'd be more unpredictable. Not to mention we'd be able to move around after the clone was created. Keeping the action going like back in the day.
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The other thing that you bring to light, is if when he's standing there, does he stay frozen "as himself" for a couple frames (1 or 2 seconds) or not. And is it automatic.

If it's automatic, and after a couple seconds he tries to do that uppercut, then cool...but it doesn't seem like it is. It acts very similar to the old clone moves, just with him in it. If it's to where he's vulnerable in the clone....well that might work actually. Although he could be blocking while frozen if that's the case.

If he stays frozen for a couple seconds, we could also be able to anticipate when he comes out of the clone too. Think of that? Kinda instills a "risk" in even performing the move in the first place. I guess that'd be a good possibility if it's true. Seeing as how Subby doesn't look like he can do anything but stand there for the duration of the move.

eh...

both clips of this move show him getting attacked instantly, we dont no what happens if hes not attacked yet. but when he is attcled, the clone shatters, and he comes from behind with an uppercut. we no what happens when the clone is broke, we just dont no is the uppercut only comes if the clone is broken.

i would also like to bring up throws. there seem to be command throws, but no sign of regular throws. the klose kombat might be in place of regular throws, thus leaving only command throws, like the superman throw up in the air, slam down with a punch, and the catwoman jump on to punch uand kick u away.

as far as run the only visible sign of a running charatcer is the clip after supermans eye beam. i for one believe there is no run button, but that they finally added a FF dash to go with the BB dash.

mkf, if the only launch combo is say 11b1 for everyone than yes the combo system is mk4 again. being able to do 11b4 11f3 will mean nothing.
the only launches seen so far have been

punch punch launch (the exact same combos used by 4 guys)
punch punch launch(with a kick) used by superman
and upperct launch like kenshis
and the flash move where he jumps in with a punch (still not known what that is)

so yes as of right now the combo system is 100% universal.

we dont see the second half of subs ice shaker. so we dont know if its broke or not. if they make him have to unfreeze back to his toes, then its a semi-worthless move.

just be patient. we havent seen much yet or received any answers to our questions. you need to post in that sticky thread at midway these kind of things. its the only way we're gonna make progress with the game.

they have 12 pages of questions. most of which are not as important as this. post it. theyll see it.

later

I agree with that.

"6 special moves per character" kinda leans towards that idea. Also the statement of "no more dials".

Just looking at it though, it seems like those three hit combos are dialed. It seems. I do wanna know what else we can get away with inside that window, AND how defense will work with those things going on.

I've said before that I don't have a problem with the dials. But it'd have to lead into strings at least.

Seeing this early footage is kinda hopeful to that. Like "having a learning curb", and it seems like all they were showing is basic stuff.

Hope that's the case.

You know, we still haven't seen anything the way of implementing special moves inside of the combos themselves. Actually, there was the sequence with Shang and Superman, but it seems like the wrong interpretation of the idea. Or simply "kin" to that original idea.

I'm curious now, to the other special moves that are on the list for each character. Maybe at E3 they could show us more combos with the special moves happening during the combos, and a few different ways that one combo can happen....

That'd be my request along side seeing how defense works with all this.

Looks like their getting closer though.

e3 will only have 4 guys playable.


we have seen

punch- punch-launch-ground pound- heat vision

punnch-punch-launch-jab-leg grab

chains are dial to a point. its still just a stabndard 3 button sequence, but there are no limtiations to what 3 buttons u link.

Nice, I posted this in UMK if you don't mind, I gave credit.

The powers look awesome especially at the end of a combo chain.

However the basic punches and kicks look like MKA rip offs and will everyone be able to do the same attacks in Klose Kombat and free fall Kombat too? I do hope they don't go down the MK4 road again.

I do hope that everyone has enough unique basic attacks of their own in the final game for all modes of kombat.

p.s. the Parry in Klose Kombat looked kinda cool.

predator151 - the specials have helped make the last 2 games broke. dairou is top tier because of his tombstone drop in mkd. sareena is top tier because of her knives in mka. and the list goes on.

if m2dave were here he would back me up when i say: they need to lose ALL the specials, and im not even kidding when i say that. either they are too worthless or too broke.

If any of you have ever played Cpacom vs, SNK 2, Fatal Fury: Mark of the Wolves, or even any KOF containing Geese Howard or Blue Mary, then you know what Sub Zero's bait move is.


That move is what is known as a
"Bait n' Switch" move
And yes, Sub Zero should be able to perform the move up close. The way these moves work is if Sub-Zero, Geese, Yamzaki, Blue Mary etc gets hit after the move is performed, the attacker gets countered or, in this case, frozen.


If the attacker does nothing, Sub-Zero, Geese, Blue Mary etc. remain in stun animation, open to attacks that can still damage them without triggering the counter/freeze.

For example, you can hit Geese and Blue Mary with special moves, supers or even throws if they perform their counters. I'm sure the game-play guy that I spoke to during MKA's creation is behind this move. He is an avid Cvs2 fan and this new Freeze Counter borrows heavily from the likes of Yamzaki of KOF fame.


If this move could only be performed at sweep distance from the opponent, what would be the point of using it?

Take a look at this video of Geese Howard . Notice at 0:22, he performs a counter on Terry which ends in a body slam. If he could not perform the move up close, it would be useless.


I'm sure to be right on this one guys. My spider sense is tingling.

Nice reviews, guys. Sub-Zero's new move seems to act like a counter so I agree with Malone about it be able to work up close. There are numerous counter moves in other fighters including Smash Bros and Street Fighter that see these sort of moves usable in close.
Hopefully, if Sub-Zero isn't attacked he'll be open for attack due to remaining in the animation and he shouldn't be able to evade, counter or parry etc. Also, he should hopefully be punishable by projectiles and perhaps even a move like Flash's Spin Dash. Also, if they've fixed the camera, perhaps teleporting behind (possibly a reason why they've added so many) and attacking from behind might also help avoid it. In that sense, the move would gain actical use in the sense that you'd use it against an agressive player looking to rush you down. With the camera fixed you won't get Sub-Zero turning around like on MKD and MKA. Hopefully we'll see more footage with this move and can learn better about how it works.

In past MKs, not being able to do the Ice Clone within a certain distance from the opponent was one of the most annoying things in the entire game in my opinion.

The opponent was ALWAYS within that distance, and if they weren't then they were never going to be stupid enough to walk into your clone, making the move completely useless!

and how about agaisnt a wall like in mkd with smokes cloud???

i will say it could be the best move ever made to stop jumpers, since it a d-u motion to activate this move.

it also better have block properties like subbys clone in umk3, where if it touches u when u are in blocking animation to can counter with a dial.

and how much of him has to be frozen to make it work.

Ok, lol this is going to take a bit addressing everyone who's made interesting points.

@Malone, interesting post and I have to admit I never played those games except for Capcom vs. SNK 2, but I don't use that character. Does he have it in that game as well?

Anywho, now that I watch it again I have to admit I agree. It's ONLY useful apparently up close so I suppose the wiser tactic would be to NOT get to close to Sub, I still don't believe despite how some people feel about it it's not nearly as "broken or cheesy" as MK3 Sub clone(which was fixed in UMK3 anyway)

Another thing though that not many people are talking about is Sub's new teleport very similar to SmokesMKA teleport, I wonder if it'll be punishable ot safe online...example, some are and aren't. Raiden's for example is VERY punishable in the previous two MK's online if you have a guy that pokes well or say Kabal's UP+2 is a free hit every time on a Raiden teleport, so I wonder if Sub's will be worth the teleport with the exception of projectiles, jumping attacks etc. Shang also has a different kind of teleport now coming up from the ground kind of like Rain'sMKA.

@ Red, well it appears that the chain combos have limits. What I mean by that is that I can't see someone juggling another person across the stage forever in this game like say the past two with parry cancelling(Checks awesome vids) or say MK:DA or MKD having the insanely long ass branch combos that are like 12-14 button inputs.

We'll have to wait and see though, it's still way early but I still like what I see more then the previous two MK's from a combo point of view.

@Aquarius, dude which vid/part of the video did you see a parry animation? I know they'll be in there since Boon said it/counter move a way to get out of it, but which gameplay clip? Thanks

@ Predator, it's still very early like Check, Malone, myself and some others have said so in fairness I suppose it's too early to jump the gun with the string/chains/dial up theories for the moment, but perhaps they'll do something that combines them all, but at the same time have a limit to them, unlike the previous few MK games that had "tricks" to get more damage, know what I mean? There's no air kombat(thank god) lol but did notice the jumping still, which is good. That's why I feel this is like a combined 3D MK2/UMK3/MK4 into one game kind of....obviously it's not as fast as UMK3 or MK4, yet seems a bit faster then MK2 with similar MK4 combos(at least for now) and the similar limits.

I like the change though so far, have to admit. Can't wait to see more at E3

Pete - There is no "What ifs" anymore. all that has to be done is a simple post with the questions:

1) How many hits can we expect per combo? what is the longest string of attacks planned for each character in the air and on the ground?

2) How does Sub Zero's Ice Shaker Work? after it misses, does the opponent have an opportunity to hit him before he can block?

and the list goes on..

if i could get registered over there i would have 12 pages of questions on my own. lol

cmon guys, get these questions in before its too late.