The comment I've read about MK never having been about game play or depth so it doesn't have to be now makes no sense.

It like saying that because the game play has been sub par in the past or very basic, that is needs to stay that way now and in future games........No it doesn't. That's a bad idea. Especially when you look at the new competition.

The game play can and should be one of the main things that MK is about.

The game play should be as important as the story and fatalities if not more so.

It doesn't matter that it wasn't before, that was then this is now.

It just bugs me whenever I see someone post that.

Oh, Menthol, I have a question for you.

How do you defend a compilation like SF: AC, when it's nothing but old games all thrown together in one? Sounds to ME like those lame asses at Capcom are trying to get just a few more BUCKS out of your pocket for the same bullshit they sold you ten years ago, and yet you EAT IT UP. There is nothing new on the disc, just old SF games.

Sounds to me that you are living in the past, sadly. Instead of having an open mind when looking for new things, you just revert back to what you already know. It's like when a band re-releases the same album, adds a beat or two to every song, and re-releases it as a "new" album. You're supporting that shit?

Come on bro, lets be honest with ourselves here. Who is moving FORWARD in the gaming universe, MK or Street Fighter. I think we both know the answer to this.

MK will thrive forever, as long as the people enjoy it and support it. Street fighter never tried to move forward, oh wait, I forgot about that sad attempt of a series called EX.

I'm not here to argue with you, I'm just here to show you the truth. The TRUTH of it is, Street Fighter hasn't changed in over a decade. MK is moving forward, and that upsets you because people enjoy it for what it is. You call us "scrubs" because we enjoy it much more than you do. Pity, Pity.

It's all good though, because as soon as this game comes out, gets rave reviews and sells millions of copies, these people will all shut up. Then you will wonder where they went when they disappear from the boards.

Just buy what you like, and don't trust anyone's opinion but your OWN. Don't support it if you think it is a bad game, and support it if you think it is a good game. In the end, the bad seeds will be gone, and all will be well. Just wait and see.

EDIT --- WOW, and now these links to pictures that say "You got owned, Motherfucker!" Jesus christ man, how much of a fucking ignorant moron can you be? All they want is for you to say that they're better than you and that you lost the argument... HOW PATHETIC! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Wow. Speechless.

twistedspine Wrote: Oh, Menthol, I have a question for you. How do you defend a compilation like SF: AC, when it's nothing but old games all thrown together in one? Sounds to ME like those lame asses at Capcom are trying to get just a few more BUCKS out of your pocket for the same bullshit they sold you ten years ago, and yet you EAT IT UP. There is nothing new on the disc, just old SF games. Sounds to me that you are living in the past, sadly.

Well, I'll just answer that one little opening part.

That's the reason I know that I'm getting SF:AC. They're all old SF games. Good old SF games. Wouldn't you buy an MK compilation? Exactly.

P.S. SF3 Third Strike, a 2D game that came out more than four years ago has more actual playability and depth than DA.

I personally love the street fighter games. There have been many changes to the various games, but then if they are similar it's still good because the game play in those games is solid.

When you have an awesome system, you don't need to reinvent it.


The fact that they reuse sprites is ok with me, if they have all that work done, why would they do it all over again?

Unless it's to make that character kooler or something, they don't need to remake them from scratch.

I'm talking about the sprites, drawing all of them again.

Also I like to have the old characters in too, what would you think if they took out Scorpion or Sub Zero.

They have good reasons for reusing some things and for keeping things similar.

Like the saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


The 3D street fighters sucked bad, I never bought any of them, and never will.

I would love to see a street fighter game that's like Tekken5, VF4 or SC2.

That would be a dream come true for me.


My thought is that because the game is being made in 3D, but still has roots in a 2D world it does not mean that the 3D version has to play like the 2D games. I think it should evolve and play a lot more realistically like the other games. That's what I was hoping to see from the new 3D King of Fighters game, but I was expecting it to play like the 2D games, which is exactly what happened. I guess it's still kool, but I was hoping for a major change.

3D games that play like 2D games can still be awesome, but it's not what I would want. I mean like for example, I would rather have RYO from KOF mixed with Jin Kazama from T5 instead of the same old RYO from the 2D KOF games. A mix of KYO's special moves with Lee Cholan's martial arts arsenal would be so awesome. Sagat with Bruce Ervin's attacks would be way better IMO.

Actually, no, I wouldn't buy an MK Kollection because I just emulate them.

Apparently it's okay for Street Fighter to use rehashed shit every iteration, but not MK (even though they don't). You'd buy another SF collection next year, as long as it has the exact same thing it did last year.

I love past MK and SF games, but MK isn't just selling old bullshit, it is moving forward. Not only that, but the Midway Arcade compilation comes with other great classics like Total Carnage and Smash T.V. You don't get a few games for 50 bucks, you get like 20 for $20.

Anyway, MK is moving forward and SF is not, and yet the shit talking continues. The visual evidence should be quite clear at this point as to who is actually succeeding.

I'm not gonna buy the SF:AC either, It's just a waste of money IMO. I already have those games for my older systems, and I have almost every street fighter game on Mame.


What would make me buy the SF:AC is if they added new fighters to the games, or new moves. If it's the same exact thing, then no way I'll buy it.

Wait until the game comes out.You never know if it is a good thing or bad thing.I agree with one thing though.deadly alliance fighting engine sucked.

Bleed Wrote: The comment I've read about MK never having been about game play or depth so it doesn't have to be now makes no sense. It like saying that because the game play has been sub par in the past or very basic, that is needs to stay that way now and in future games........No it doesn't. That's a bad idea. Especially when you look at the new competition. The game play can and should be one of the main things that MK is about. The game play should be as important as the story and fatalities if not more so. It doesn't matter that it wasn't before, that was then this is now. It just bugs me whenever I see someone post that.

Thats not quite what I was saying. What I meant was that in the past it definatly was not the key part of the game but when they made DA they tried to fix that. Fatalites, pits, babalities all of that was afterthought almost. When they made DA they were mainly focusing on the gameplay. Unfortunatly the gameplay sucked and this time there were no cool extra redeaming qualities. It just sucked. Since Deception is based off of DA's fighting engine theres no way they can completely revamp everything and make it all about fighting and gameplay without makeing a new engine and realsing a new game years later while in the meantime everyones still pissed about DA. Instead they decided to do the best that they can do with the current engine plus put in whatever else they can so that the game is still fun, but we don't have to wait five years. I agree that gameplay is the most important thing and that the gameplay in the MK series should be better but until they redo the engine it wont help. By fixing as many problems as they can with the DA engine and adding back all the other stuff like pits, and then throwing in new ideas like death traps and chess they are managing to make a good game without having to start from scratch. I don't think the fighting in Deception will be terrific but it will be good and it definatly will be a hell of a lot better than DA.

For a better example think what would have happened if the gameplay in soul caliber 2 was less than average. Basically since thats all there is to the game the game its self would suck. In past MK's if the fighting was a little less than average it made up for it with unique ideas. In DA they tried to focus only on gameplay, failed, and there was nothing else good about it.

To be honest I'm surprised they would make MK:D at all. Most companies if they screwed up that bad wouldn't release another game until the fighting system was completely redone or everything was fixed. I think the deal here is that DA had potential to be very good but was executed horribly. With Deception there fixing the flaws in DA to make the game good and bringing back all of the unique stuff so theres replay and the game is even better.

Actually now that I think about it MK:D is basically the same as ultimate MK 3. While I don't know what the overall view of MK3 was when it came out it seemed to me that alot of people disliked it and it wasen't nearly as popular as MK2. Rather than just waiting for the next game they fixed what was wrong in MK3, added some more secerets, and brought back some old favorties and you had Ultimate MK3 which it seemed to me was liked alot better.

MK:D is fixing all the screwups that were in DA rather than just leaving them.

twistedspine Wrote: Oh, Menthol, I have a question for you. How do you defend a compilation like SF: AC, when it's nothing but old games all thrown together in one? Sounds to ME like those lame asses at Capcom are trying to get just a few more BUCKS out of your pocket for the same bullshit they sold you ten years ago, and yet you EAT IT UP. There is nothing new on the disc, just old SF games. Sounds to me that you are living in the past, sadly. Instead of having an open mind when looking for new things, you just revert back to what you already know. It's like when a band re-releases the same album, adds a beat or two to every song, and re-releases it as a "new" album. You're supporting that shit? Come on bro, lets be honest with ourselves here. Who is moving FORWARD in the gaming universe, MK or Street Fighter. I think we both know the answer to this. MK will thrive forever, as long as the people enjoy it and support it. Street fighter never tried to move forward, oh wait, I forgot about that sad attempt of a series called EX. I'm not here to argue with you, I'm just here to show you the truth. The TRUTH of it is, Street Fighter hasn't changed in over a decade. MK is moving forward, and that upsets you because people enjoy it for what it is. You call us "scrubs" because we enjoy it much more than you do. Pity, Pity. It's all good though, because as soon as this game comes out, gets rave reviews and sells millions of copies, these people will all shut up. Then you will wonder where they went when they disappear from the boards. Just buy what you like, and don't trust anyone's opinion but your OWN. Don't support it if you think it is a bad game, and support it if you think it is a good game. In the end, the bad seeds will be gone, and all will be well. Just wait and see. EDIT --- WOW, and now these links to pictures that say "You got owned, Motherfucker!" Jesus christ man, how much of a fucking ignorant moron can you be? All they want is for you to say that they're better than you and that you lost the argument... HOW PATHETIC! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Wow. Speechless.

So much ignorance. So little time.

SFAC hasn't been on console. HSF2 is a compilation of the older games. Pitting World Warrior characters against Super Turbo characters, etc etc etc? You kidding me? That brings up far more match-ups to one of the greatest fighters ever. Street Fighter 3 Third Strike's arcade version hasn't been seen on console. The Dreamcast version wasn't arcade perfect. PS2's version will be 99.9% arcade perfect. HSF2 is a brand new game and 3S arcade hasn't been seen on console. Totally worth the $30 price tag. I'll also be picking up MATII.

Living in the past? Hardly. I'm looking forward to Tekken 5 and play SC2 on occasion. I play good fighters these days. Not trashy ones.

It's already established game reviews mean jack shit in the fighting game arena. reviewers don't understand what is and isn't a good fighting game. Hence why all their coverage is about Puzzle and Chess. Smart move by Midway. Sway critics away from your fighting game product with fluff. But to fighting game fans, regardless of reviews, we know the deal. Perfect example is SFA3. Most of them said the Dreamcast version is arcade perfect. They were wrong on all accounts. Reviewers know nothing about fighters. Fact.

As for sales, yeah, MK will sell. But while MK sells 9 billion copies and collects dust by 100% of those buyers within a month, I'll still be playing the "old" Street Fighters. As will thousands upon thousands of other people.

twistedspine Wrote: P.S. Hey Menthol, I burned SF: Anniversary Collection JAP Version a few months ago off the net. It comes with a pretty cool SF DVD Anime movie right on the disc. How does it feel to know that I got it wayyyy before you did? Just thought I'd rub it in your face, considering you still don't have it yet. Bring on the flaming baby, I can take it all fucking day.

I must of hurt your feelings pretty bad.

You have HSF2 if you got the Japan version. 3S isn't included. And I do have HSF2 in my PS2 as we speak (though not burned. i give my money to developers who deserve it and make great fighters. not chess games and puzzle fighter rip-offs). Your weak rebuttles need work.

1st im not going to read any of these posts..im tired.. i get the idea though..



It doesn’t matter how many moves there are, or how great or crappy the game play is!!
It’s true for all the games....
Mk deception might not have all of the depth v.f, tekken, DOA, and sc2 have, but if u don’t play smart u won’t win...
I have many times walked away from the mk machine (sorry please don’t kill me) to play tekken street fighter and soul edge, beat up some one who plays the game 24/7, knows all the moves.. But they don’t play smart and lose.
What im getting at is having a lot of moves, depth and game play is great especially for the single player’s enjoyment, but it doesn’t mean anything vs. a smart opponent. Basically it doesn’t matter if the game has depth or none what so ever u still need skills to play....
I love soul cal 2!! I like it a lot more then mk3, mk4, mkda, but even w/ all there depth I still like mk 2 better w/ its inferior game play and depth, but the fighting is still better and funnier then all those depth games I still play it to this day (thanks to mame online )those others just sit there collecting dust)..... I hated mkda, but it could have been the lack of opponents I had...
The online play will add a lot to mkd...
They could have added online play to mkda and it could have ended up being a great game....
IM A FIGHTING GAME FAN I LOVE THEM ALL!!


Besides the fighting part of the game the story is by far the best of all fighting games!!
Now w/ the konquest, chess, puzzle, and online play ~ mkd will be a great game!!!! That’s a fact!!!!

Lets all remember they never really changed “the core fighting” of mk1-mk4, but if u have played them all you will know that each one is different in its own way. Each 1 added something new to the game play all four games mechanics were the same but the game play is way different from each other... this will probably be true for mk deception, the mechanics will be the same, most likely though, it will have different game play.. If you don’t understand just play mk2 for a half hour, play mk3 for a half hour then go back to mk2 u will see what I mean by different game play.

Well, like the saying goes...different strokes for different folks..

I would like the fighting engine to evolve and to improve and I'm sure they will be doing that in some aspects with Mortal Kombat: Deception.

As a fighting game, I don't think that it is quite dead yet. I think it could improve and even though the fighting engine in MK: D will be relatively the same as the one in MK: DA, that doesn't mean that they can't or won't make any improvements.

If this guy gets into Deception's roster all will be forgiven.

http://www.brandonbird.com/kingofcage.html

Heh, there are valid points on both sides in this thread. Although comparing MK to 3rd Strike is pretty stupid.

The last MK game I bought was Trilogy on PS1, I just havent really been into it since Tobias left. :/

Although as others have said, lets just wait and see if Boon fixes his fuck ups. The combo breakers idea is probably the worst thing Ive ever heard and Im not a fan of the slow and sloppy gameplay of DA.

Bottom line, anyone in here (including myself) who is ripping on the engine should simply rent it first. Ill might end up buying it cause Im a fighting game whore, but I certainly wont pluck down 60 hard earned bucks for a pre-order unless some positive feedback about the gameplay surfaces.

P.S. I agree that any time on chess and puzzle BS is waisted time if the fighting engine still sux.

Oh let me get my two 2 in this gameplay, please!!!!

Ok I been reading this post for two day now and what I read is a very good debate on the DA gameplay. I can agree that the DA gameplay engine suck and Boon has done little to improve it from what I read. I for one complain about the DA gameplay engine but I come to realize that it too late for it now because the game is coming out in two month and in the back of my mind I know and expect the gameplay engine to be the same as DA, that why I been posting other stuff about MKD. Now to end my post, I know that I going to buy MKD and expect the good and the bad from the game, if I find something wrong with the game I with post it and voice my opinion about it for the next MK game until then I won't judge MKD until I get it and play it.

MENTHOL Wrote: twistedspine Wrote: P.S. Hey Menthol, I burned SF: Anniversary Collection JAP Version a few months ago off the net. It comes with a pretty cool SF DVD Anime movie right on the disc. How does it feel to know that I got it wayyyy before you did? Just thought I'd rub it in your face, considering you still don't have it yet. Bring on the flaming baby, I can take it all fucking day. I must of hurt your feelings pretty bad. You have HSF2 if you got the Japan version. 3S isn't included. And I do have HSF2 in my PS2 as we speak (though not burned. i give my money to developers who deserve it and make great fighters. not chess games and puzzle fighter rip-offs). Your weak rebuttles need work.

Yep. his shit was just owned hard. He needs to shut the fuck up cause we all know he is just goating people and trying to get a rise out of people.

The 3rd strike port will feature the taken out: Unblockables. These were taken out of the later arcade versions and changed the gameplay for a few characters. If you played, you would know this. You would know the importance of a arcade perfect port and the port to DC. But you don't, so you lose....again. Good job twistedwhatever.