shadowreaver Wrote: Thanx everyone for a pretty open-minded discussion on this topic. As stated before by several fellow MK fans on this thread, I am a HUGE fan of MK. You have no idea how burnt I was when MK the movie came out and was rated for kids. No blood, no fatals remotely close to the games, and no sign of even TRYING to relate to the games storyline. It seems to me that MK is being made to appeal to all ages yet trying to retain the M-rating. Kinda oxymoronish IMO Boon. LOL. But hey, it's ur call. I do wish Tobias was still involved. I personally believe he left because his vision was a lot different from Boon's for the future of their brain-child. And bear in mind that he has EVERYTHING to do with the creation of the "fatality". I agree that the number one flaw of the recent two MK's is that the fighting is just not fun. It's VERY stiff (Play Soulcalibur2, Tekken, or DOA and even Virtua Fighter) and you will see this within 10 seconds of playing the game. All this puzzle kombat and jenga-kombat and bubble bobble kombat crap is rediculous. I want to fight, ravage, own and destroy my friends in a fighting game, not drop some blocks on their puzzle. There are one-thousand games that I can do that in already. Fatalities. My MAIN gripe. Whether you agree or not, it was this unique and fresh idea that drew me so quickly to MK in the first place. There was no greater feeling that to reward your well-won victory than splitting your opponent in half and watching the blood fly. I can tell already that there is ONE formula for fatalities in MK:D and they have rode this horse into the ground and dug a pit with it's barely-beating hooves. "How many ways can we make people fall apart", must have been what Boon said when he approached the fatality ideas for MK:D. How everyone could agree that would be a good idea, I have no damn clue, but it seems there a lot of simple-minded people at Midway who loved the idea too. Just call the new game we all hope to love so much, "Fall-Apart Kombat: Deception". I guess I just expected some uncoiling intestines or slash marks where huge knives have layed open a helpless beated-half-to-death opponent. Silly me. LOL P.S. Scorpion's Fatals DO suck. Kewl ideas, bad animation and no follow through.

Anyway, because I am already discussing the fighting engine in another thread, I will point something else out.
[Scrub Mode]
The fatalities blow.
If they're running out of ideas, have fatality creation contests/sweepstakes. The top 5 with the best fatality ideas get them included in a game. We do not see things like acid fatalities anymore, as well as bomb fatalities, astral projection fatalities (Kabal), etc.
At this moment, I could think of 7 original fatalities off the top of my head. That's three characters' worth.
Anyway, they blow.
[/Scrub Mode]

I think MKD is still going to be a great game. I do believe the fighting engine needs work, but I think it's really cool that they took the time to add the mini-games, and konquest, it will really improve replay. Also online play will make this game so much more worthwhile.
Instead of ragging on the game I will just try to make suggestions for mk7, like some other posters have. I think they really should work on the clothing garmet... some aging would be nice, also the ripped torn, and SOME clothing falling off would be a really nice touch.
They should also rework the fighting engine, and make the moves they have more accessable, and give them a reason to be used.
Maybe some fatalities that don't end up the same way.
And I really agree with those who are saying more speical moves, and moves that should be more unique to the character.
I think those would be great improvments, but I mean that's what really matters that the games keep getting better, it's okay if MKD isn't as perfect as it was set out to be, so long as they keep developing and keep striving to make a better game... because this is allready lightyears better than MKDA IMO.

Galdrog Wrote: Wow, you guys are bashing a game that isn't even out yet. I don't like this... Well HOW THE HELL DO you know what you like and don't like when you haven't even played it yet. seriously... Even if you did play it at e3 or something you played a unfinished / unpolished version. So don't be ripping / knocking it until it comes out. For you Bo Rai Cho haters: there's 23 other characters to pick and choose from. stop crying.. Whhaaaaaa poor baby.

Are you for real?
Most of the complaints have nothing to do with actual gamaeplay. For instance, I dont need to actually have had a controller in my hand to think Nightwolf shouldnt have been brought back, or that the stage weapons are too big, or that some of the fatalities are stupid.
All the things I have a problem with thus far, are visual things... like body parts exploding for no reason during fatalities... or the blood looking like jello instead of a liquid.

The real downer for me was the lack of a tournament mode and ladders in online. C'mon, these are the bare essentials.

Well, ok fine.. I'm sure everyone has something they don't like about all of the MK games. Me.. I don't like the new fighting system. They should have kept the old HP LP HK LK BLOCK system. it was simple, easy to learn, and more fun that way. But who cares about what I think. its my own opinion and it has nothing to do with what is wrong with the game. It's a preference, I will learn the new system and proceed to beat up all you Bo Rai Cho haters with Bo Rai Cho and Nightwolf online. hehe... I can't believe some of you think it should be called robot combat.. sure the animations on some of the fighting styles aren't very fluid but look at it again. I noticed that MK:Deception to me looks much much more fluid and the flow of the game appears to be WAY improved over MK"DA. I watched plenty of gameplay movies and then played mk5 again to compare. Do this and see for yourself.. seriously it's a 100% improvement.

100% improvement doesn't mean its perfect or anywhere close

Knowledge31u Wrote: 100% improvement doesn't mean its perfect or anywhere close

yep hes rite

Things I seem to not like:
-The guy who have alot people moves (personally I never like this idea for any character)
-Character models/stiffness in gameplay.
- blood flow.
-Bo rai cho- I have never really just dislike a character until he showed up.
-To many minigames.
- Gameplay seem to be the same just faster. I believe the gameplay can be so much better.
On that note, MKD still looks fun to play and I'm without a doubt buying this game. The gameplay might not be best, but its playable and enjoyable. Also I really don't care whos in the game as long as they have worthwhile characters, hey Bo Rai Cho is just a character to pounce on.

I guess I'm out there on my own when I say I miss the "special attack" moves like neijins, taunts, etc.. Reversals and shoves weren't implemented very well, but with some tweaking they could've been made very useful. I'm not at all excited about the new combo breakers.
And although I like Scorpion's new fatality, I have to admit there are too many fatalities that involve dismemberment. I knew this would be the case when I first saw Mileena's leg rip and Scorpion's arm rip.
I'm slightly dismayed at the special move count for some of the fighters. Sindel - 3? Kabal - 3? Sub-Zero - 2?? What happened to the 5 or 6 that were spoken of earlier? This could change, so I'll keep my fingers crossed.
And finally, I liked MKDA. It was a good game - not a great game, a good game. I like how there are more ways to die in MKD, but I still have a nagging feeling that I'm gonna be buying the same car in October - just with a flashy new paint job, a coat of wax and some tricked out exhaust. But the engine is still the same. A lot of things could've made the game experience better - I'm too noobish to name them all.
Overall I like MK:Deception and I will be buying it next month. I just wanted to get some of the negative things off my chest before I do so.

hey digital didn't you used to make MD Concepts?

Digital_Assassin Wrote: Knowledge31u Wrote: 100% improvement doesn't mean its perfect or anywhere close yep hes rite

Yeah ture, it's far from perfect, but you can't deny it's a step in the right direction, and that's a big step forward. We can all agree there are things that are going to be missing, and things that should be changed in MKD, but as long as the game is an improvement over MKDA then I will be pleased.

stfu all of youz.. MKD pwns your 1yf3

kaishaku Wrote: stfu all of youz.. MKD pwns your 1yf3

This is a good thread. There needs to be criticism to help shape the next MK game.
1. Real-life actors as realistic MK characters.
As some of you may know, I'm a huge supporter of realistic actors in Mortal Kombat. MK:D's characters look a lot more cartoonish than they should. I think Midway needs to find a way to incorporate real-life actors into 3D.
2. Lack of realistic blood and internal organs in MK:D.
Let's all face it. MK:D's blood effects suck. I respect them for trying to make blood in 3D, but there comes a time when you need to get things right. Maybe MK7's blood effects will be a lot better.
As for MK:D's gore. Pathetic. Where are the realistic-looking blood-stained internal organs when someone's innards are opened up? MK:D has a few clean internal organs. Clean? They should be messy with the other bodily fluids inside the victim's body! Also, MK:D is missing several internal organs and muscle/bone groups.
Another negative of MK:D's gore is 'clean limb-ripping.' When a victim's limbs are ripped off in a fatality, it should be a messy, out-of-order process. Things shouldn't come off clean, as if cut perfectly, unless cut with a knife!
3. Recycled similar fatalities need to come to an end!
I do not like seeing the same fatality over and over again! Such is the case with Scorpion's stupid arm-rip and beat 'em fatality. I never thought this fatality was good. It's not a fatality because someone would survive an arm rip. A beating is done during the match, so, it's nothing special to be done during the fatality. We've all seen other fatalities that have been brought back. No thank you!
4. Weak, anti-climatic fatalities.
Nightwolf does what? He throws an axe at your head? Fatality? Come on, his arrows are impaling the victim during the match! That's more brutal than an axe being thrown at someone's head.
Sure, if you say the axe idea out loud, it sounds more brutal, and it should. However, MK finds a 'clean' way to make this fatality anti-climatic. We only get a little blood. The head and face are not disfigured, like they should be. Shame on MK for not taking advantage of a possible heavy gore situation.
5. MK:D fanboys that praise everything about MK:D and say that MK:D doesn't deserve criticism until its release.
Hey, fanboys, there are such things as screenshots and gameplay videos of MK:D. They are a look at MK:D, not another game. We will not like that which we do not like. The fans need to voice that which they do not like. That's how Midway shapes the next MK game. Let's just hope that enough criticism can rise up about things that need to be changed.
For you MK fanboys:

People are going to hate me......
I don't like most of the characters.
I don't like the fact that the GameCube Version is not in PAL.
I don't like the sory, Mortal Kombats story has taken a turn for the worst. The reason it got 9.5 score was because its full of violence and good graphics, but Mortal Kombat has lots its charm. Mortal Kombat was a real, evil looking game. Every stage, every fatality, every character had their look. Now its trying to be brought back into the 21st century. And its been done badly, its no longer the clever, evil looking beat 'em up we all grew up with, its now just senceless violence.
Now, let me hear the bitching abut my bitching.....

You don't like the characters? I'm having a hard time swallowing the fact there isn't one character you like, because it seems they did their best to throw everything we could want at us. Isn't there at least someone who you think is mediocre?
As far as Gamecube goes, being an ex-cube owner, I would say that some developers have yet to take it seriously, which is why when I go to the store now, I see nothing but crappy games for cube and Nintendo's top notch first party titles. Hopefully Nintendo gathers up their marbles real quick so developers see their console as a profitable cause.
Senseless violence? I'm not quite sure what you mean about this so I am going to attempt to initiate a discussion with you. I personally think that the violence in MK has been given purpose now. Because back before things went 3D, the reason there was MK was the tournament. Now what type of person is going to hold a tournament to determine a realm's fate. Yes I know that its the only way Shao Kahn and friends could legitimately take over Earth Realm. It would appear the tourney's no longer matter because Shang Tsung and Quan Chi really didn't give 2 shits about Mortal Kombat, they just wanted to take over. It would seem the Dragon King also feels the same judging by how he's being worked up. So now instead of fighting in tournaments, everyone has a much more real purpose for fighting that's much more believable then someone wanting to travel to another realm just to fight in a contest.
Now please don't take what I said the wrong way I'm not trying to bitch you out, I'm just asking for you to elaborate.

Keith Wrote: People are going to hate me...... I don't like most of the characters. I don't like the fact that the GameCube Version is not in PAL. I don't like the sory, Mortal Kombats story has taken a turn for the worst. The reason it got 9.5 score was because its full of violence and good graphics, but Mortal Kombat has lots its charm. Mortal Kombat was a real, evil looking game. Every stage, every fatality, every character had their look. Now its trying to be brought back into the 21st century. And its been done badly, its no longer the clever, evil looking beat 'em up we all grew up with, its now just senceless violence. Now, let me hear the bitching abut my bitching.....

I'm not taking it the wrong way. I'm glad someone actually replied without saying "Up Yours!"
what I mean about the characters is the new ones. They don't grab me as much as the old ones. As for senceless violence, I mean the fatalities, they're not as clever, they're just decapitations, and gore!! MKDA had some clever fatalities, and MK4 had really interesting fatalities, the fatalities, like the characters don't grab me like they used to. Another thing I miss is the evil look. I miss the stages where theres skulls on the floor, mutated evil faces with a soulnado in the mouth in the center of the stage and such and such. I miss the old Mortal Kombat. MKDA was okay, but in my own opinion, I miss the old look. MKDA was an awesome fightr game, but it didn't feel like Mortal kombat, and by the looks of MKD, its also not like the old Mortal Kombat. In my opinion, Mortal Kombat obtained perfection with Mortal Kombat Gold.

No gc version for eu.
No Reptile(green blood)
No Sektor(black blood)

Personally, I love the cast they put in the game. All of my favorite fighters are back.
But none of the new fighters really hit me like the old ones.
Except for Hotaru and Kobra those do interest me even though, I think Hotaru could have been done better.
The rest seem like they ran out of ideas, got lazy, ran out of time or something.
I'm specifically talking about how they fight, not their stories. The stories are good.

I've never really been interested in the MK story. Sure, it's there, but, it's more of a back issue to the blood-filled gameplay and fatalities. To me, at least.
What really drew me to MK in the beginning (Mortal Kombat, 1992), was the bloody gameplay, the fatalities, and the real-life characters.
Back in MK1, fatalities were serious business. I don't know why Midway decided that they needed to bring humor to MK fatalities. Sure, maybe a little dark humor to shake things up for shock value, but things are getting out of hand.
Bo Rai Cho's farting and belching fatalities are perfect examples. Ok, sure, let him belch, let him fart. But, does he have to comment on his fart stench? That's very stupid. There should not be any dialogue from the characters before, after, or during a fatality! Sounds of pain and agony are fine, but talking is just plain messed up.

Kira:
From looking original, to a total and complete waste.
About Fatalities:
I WONT complain. I dislike the multiple explosions BUT look at the ones of MKDA.
MKD has better fatalities, so I will keep my mouth shut.

Am I the only one who misses MK'S dark feel.Where's the evil.
MK2 was the darkest mk.I miss it's feel.

I've been one of the MK defenders on this board for a long time. Countless times I have seen someone bashing MK:D and I have come running to the rescue. But I won't do it anymore. Six months ago, it was a different story. The game was no where near completion and very few videos had been released. Now though, there have been tons of gameplay videos, fatality videos, death trap videos, etc. Anybody with an IQ over 5 can plainly see the things they won't like. Hopes of things being changed before the release is long gone. The game has already, or is moments away from going gold, meaning, we are looking at the finished product.
With that said, I just wanted to say that anybody who tries to tell people who have a gripe about MK:D, that they are not a true fan of MK, is just being silly. A true fan has the balls to say "Hey, this feature here needs to be changed like so...". They don't go around praising a game that has multiple things that they aren't going to like. Just because someone does not share the same opinion as you on something, does not make them a n00b that knows nothing.
We need more topics like this. The majority of people on here seem fine with keeping MK as a shallow fighter, just as long as it has new characters and fatality's. And that is really sad. I am an MK fan. I will post what I don't like about MK:D because I want the game to improve. I want MK to be the hands down best fighting series on any system. But, it won't be as long as we as a community are more concerned over "who has bigger tits, Kitana or Li Mei?"
I guess what I am trying to say is, if you truly have no problems at all with the way MK:D is looking, then that's fine by me. But, you don't need to come in here and tell those that do have problems that they are stupid in judging from the obscene amount of video's that have been released, and that they are not fans of MK. They are fans, just not fanboys. There is a difference.
Sorry for my off topic rant, just had to say it.
Now... the things I dislike thusfar about MK:D.
1. Creativity in characters.
Everything was looking good a couple of months back. Now we have Liu Kang returning from the dead, Kira's double palette swap, and Ashrah's obvious use of Raiden's and Kung Lao's specials.
As I am watching the Ashrah bio, Boon is telling me to my face that the preconception that she is a female Raiden, is wrong. Really? Why the white garb and oversized hat? Why does she have a torpedo look-a-like move? Why does the projectile she fires straight up look exactly like Raiden's horizontal projectile from MK:DA? Looks and smell's like a Raiden to me.
Kira? I was really hoping for a great new female character in MK. Instead, what do we do? We make her a double palette swap. As soon as I saw her weapons I immediately thought of Kano. And my worst fears were realized as in her bio video, it is plainly stated that she has both Kano's and Sonya's moves.
And what is with the the regurgitated fighting styles? There are far too many fighting styles in this world for characters to be "stealing" styles from one another. Not to mention, we have fighters from Earth, Outworld, Netherealm, Edenia, it's amazing that the Earth known martial arts seems to be the only fighting styles in the known realms. Why not pull a Drahmin and make up some fighting styles for characters that are not of this world?
2. Lack of Creativity in Fatalities.
Again, after E3, everything looked very promising. All the fatality's in that video were great. Sub-Zero, Mileena, Baraka, Kenshi, Ermac, Hotaru, Sindel... I had no complaints about any of them.
Fast forward to today...
Bo Rai Cho. Does he have to set the opponent on fire in both fatality's? I have no complaints about either of them, I just think you should pick one or the other, then use those creative juices to think of something else.
As it has been stated, it seems like the question was "How many different ways can we make someone fall apart?" What happened to just straight out brutal fatalities?
Nightwolf's Tomahawk to the head just reeks of Kung Lao's DA hat throw. Kira slashing someone axross their neck and then kicking them and they just fall to peices?
I guess in a way I am not too suprised at this though. It seems like in every MK since 2, every character has one creative fatality, and one lame fatality. Let us look at MKII...
Baraka - Decapitation.. would not of been so bad if it was not for the fact that so many characters had a simple decapitation.
He stabs you with his blades, your body twitches and then you slowly slide down the blades. Creative!
Kung Lao - Again with the Decap
He takes his hat off, slices you down the middle, and your body splits in two equal halves. Creative!
Kitana - Yet another Decap
She kisses you, you blow up like a ballon then explode into a million peices. Creative!
Liu Kang - Same old boring wheel kick & uppercut.
He morphs into a dragon, takes a bite, and leaves the bloody lower half of the opponents body. Creative!
There are a few exceptions to the rule. Both of Scorpions were great. Both of Jax's were lame. And all 3 of Shang's were creative as well.
So what's the problem? As someone else already stated, why not hold a contest or sweepstakes for designing fatalities if the creativity only last through one fatality? Hell, I'll come design them for free, you won't even have to pay me.
Ashrah's magical "you fall to peices" fatality could of been so much better.
What if she started the fatality like normal, but instead of the opponent just falling to peices, you see their skin start to rot. It turns green and brown as blood seeps out of their body. The skin rots to the point where it starts to drip off the muscles peice by peice. Then the muscles fall in chunks off of the bones and onto the floor. Then we see a skeleton standing there and seconds later it collapses into the pile of "goo" that was once flesh.
Ok, I thought of that in 30 seconds. That is tons better than just having them suddenly fall into peices.
3. Gameplay
I was excited to hear that combo breakers would be aded into the game. I was hoping they would be set up a little better though. Like having to hit block and forward and an exact moment, rather than just having 3 of them. Possibly only having a chance to break the combo at one or two points, rather than at anytime. There are far too many ideas that have been posted on this forum for this to be it when it comes down to it.
Combos... You have 4 attack buttons, USE THEM! MK is not a pick up and play game. Which really sucks when I have a friend over and we are trying to play but they keep having to pause to check which button can be linked with another. Every style only has about 5 or 6 combos to begin with, and only 1 or two at the very most are worthwhile. Why?
Why can't I start low then go high? Or Vice Versa? Why can't pushing back and 1, have a different attack than just pushing 1? Why am I so limited in the amount of ways I can attack my opponent? I don't want MK to turn into VF, or something.. meaning I don't want them to drop down to only a punch and kick button. I want them to make full use of all 4 attack buttons that they have. If they have to go back to HP, LP, HK, LK, that's fine just use the friggin buttons. This is not 1996 where it is acceptable that each character only has a handful of combos. I would gladly trade in Puzzle Fighter, or a handful of characters if the combo system had been revamped. The DA engine itself is fine, it just needed to be built upon and sadly it was not.
I want more combos, I want the ability to go high, mid, low. Low, high, mid. Mid to low. Low, to high, etc. etc. I want a well thought out reversal/parry system that is nothing as easy to pull off as DOA.
Those are my main gripes with Deception. Do I still think the game will be fun in the end? Yeah, sure. But if MK does not start to step up and try to make a fighting game that is on par with today's standards, they are going to get left behind. And I don't want that to happen.

Bravo! Wow! What you said is spot on!
As for MKTJ, you're right, I miss the evil look as well. It was was made me fall in love with it.
I miss past stages like The Soul Chamber, The Wasteland, The Pit, Khans Cave, Scorpions LAir. And So on.

You at least got to give it to them for what they did with Ermac. He's the only "new" character that I am completely content with. And now that you clarified that you were talking about the one fatality they are giving to everyone, you know the one where the body explodes reguardless of what you do to it, yeah its getting pointless. MK3 was the height of the fatality period, or at least I think so...
And as far as the dark feel you are on target what you say about it. Considering the Dragon King is aimed to be the best MK villain, they are falling short. The only stages that maintain the evil MK atmosphere is the Nethership. Now not all the levels should have dead bodies or bloodstained floors, but the ratio deffinately has gone down. The reason? That's anyone's guess but I know that I would absolutely die if they brought scorpion's lair back in 3D. So much potential...

Keith Wrote: I'm not taking it the wrong way. I'm glad someone actually replied without saying "Up Yours!" what I mean about the characters is the new ones. They don't grab me as much as the old ones. As for senceless violence, I mean the fatalities, they're not as clever, they're just decapitations, and gore!! MKDA had some clever fatalities, and MK4 had really interesting fatalities, the fatalities, like the characters don't grab me like they used to. Another thing I miss is the evil look. I miss the stages where theres skulls on the floor, mutated evil faces with a soulnado in the mouth in the center of the stage and such and such. I miss the old Mortal Kombat. MKDA was okay, but in my own opinion, I miss the old look. MKDA was an awesome fightr game, but it didn't feel like Mortal kombat, and by the looks of MKD, its also not like the old Mortal Kombat. In my opinion, Mortal Kombat obtained perfection with Mortal Kombat Gold.

Oh and JadeDragon you really hit the nail with the hammer as well. Unfortunely I have this feeling that the right people might never see this thread...

excellent thread
many things need fixed for mk7, and i hope they take their time on it instead of rushing it.
1. each fighter should have their own distinctive moves.
2. blood needs to be fixed, it looks pathetic.
3. i am very, very disappointed with many of the fatalities shown thus far. what are they doing???
4. fuck the chess and puzzle, that has obviously took away too much time from them thinking about improving the fighting.
5. i am glad i don't know the address of who decided to create bo rai cho and make him a foolish clown, and then they put him in deception and gave him the saddest fatality of all time. (i almost cried when i saw it)
summary,
gameplay, fatalities, blood, silly kontent, and a kharacter who farts!
why?