So then basically I was right. You disapprove because he judges a game in a different way than you. And how is it stupid? It's the truth. It's exactly what you do, and you just proved it.



First, it worked. It did liven the board up a hell of alot at the time. Second, I wasn't referring to myself. I was merely pointing out the blatent disrespect some of you have for others, which seems to be grossly ignored by the staff here. Yet I receive skull points for saying "moron" in a post, once. I find that funny, and incredibly biased.



If you don't care, why do you keep replying to what I say? That doesn't make sense now, does it?



I can say whatever I want. Your opinions of the game are predudiced because you judge the game according to how it's NOT like other current fighters on the market. But I take MKD for what it is, and I judge the game on it's overall fun factor. Sure it could've been better, but something is at least better than nothing, in my eyes. Sure you can't get much for a dollar nowadays, but I'd rather have a dollar than no money at all. And let's not forget that Midway is in dire financial straights right now. They probably can't afford to spend 3-4 years on a title, testing every single little detail.




How have I been proven wrong? I don't understand how you can tell someone that their feelings about a game are wrong. Again, it just don't make sense. And why do you keep thinking I was referring to myself. There is a handful of you that immediately attack anyone & everyone who openly doesn't share your views about the game.



Sorry, but a small group of people on some messageboard probably doesn't represent the vast majority of the fighting game world. And if I'm wrong, please show me the list of every single person who disagrees. Until then, well......



See previous statement.



Again, I can call it whatever I want. Stop trying to tell people what they can & can't say! It is a good fighting game. It's not a perfect or above average fighting game, but it is a good overall package and fun to play.

MK7 better be good

lmao...and you guys keep going on and on. the bottom line is that we're giving you the facts and you're replying with "I see fun different from" etc etc. Admit it..you all got owned..again. Just like you guys got owned when MKD came out. Just like you guys got owned when MKDA came out. I swear if I see any of you guys online I am so picking NS and just infiniting you to death. I hate morons.

I can't say MK7 better be good since I know I am gonna play it regardless, but I can say it should definitly be better than MKD. With all these topics and the future MK board's topic(TTT's) pointing out MK's obvious flaws it would be really fucked up for Ed Boon to make Anihilatilities and MK Hop Sotch and throw in the game piece of shitgameplay.

It's amazing how difficult it is for us as human begins to acknowledge the error in our ways of we think and perceive things.

Lol, first time to see 1TruKing get Powned.

Anyway, 1TruKing is right in the sense that MK5-6 fails as an overall game compared to others with slightly (slightly ?!?)better functional engines. owever the game is fine for me, and i can call it a good game becouse it fulfille what I would have wanted in it.

BUT, I also care about MK, and thats why I could also see the flaws (more flaws evetually as time has gone by) in it. MK needs improvement beco-use if this trend goes on, MK will loose it's fandoms most loyal region, namely the more competitive players (anyone remember UMK3?). That is what we cannot allow.

So, eventually the game is good, but still not good enough. It's far from being the awesome games MK1-MK2-UMK3 were in terms of engineering and gameplay. Other aspects fall secondary currently (presentation, story andything)

Or maybe it really did stop selling significant numbers after a few weeks. It isn't unheard of and judging by how much garbage was found in the game within those few weeks, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. Let's do some work on this. I actually want to find out genuine numbers even if I am wrong.

According to this NPD report from 2003:
http://www.dkvine.com/interactive/forums/index.php?showtopic=445

"41 PS2 MORTAL KOMBAT: DEADLY MIDWAY Nov-02 873,848 $42,819,040"

The Xbox and GCN numbers aren't even on the list (which is organized by sales of the top 100 games) so it can be inferred that Deadly Alliance sold far less on both of them. This is especially true since the last item on the list sold less than 400,000:

"100 XBX MECH ASSAULT MICROSOFT Nov-02 398,764 $19,531,140"

In all practicality a year is enough time to figure final sales since very few people will be buying year+ games in massive quantities. So we can estimate the GCN and Xbox Deadly Alliance sales as each being less than 400,000. But for the purposes of this estimation, let's say that DA sold 400,000 each on GCN and Xbox despite the fact that it's more than likely a huge overestimation, especially for the GCN. So if you add them all up you get:

PS2: 873,848
GCN: 400,000
Xbox: 400,000
Total:1,673,848

So we can say at the absolute most, DA sold a little over a million and a half.

Now according to this article:
http://ps2.ign.com/articles/556/556641p1.html

"[MK: Deception is] outselling even Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance by 35 percent in its first week on shelves."

This is only for the first week, and that percentage more than likely dropped substantially over time but again for what we're doing here, let's assume that number stays constant and Deception outsold DA by 35% in total.

We then have:
1,673,848(0.35) + 1,673,848 = 2,259,694.8

So at the absolute most (which again is a gross overestimation since I counted DA's sales on the two consoles not present as the maximum possible number and used the 35% as a constant) Deception sold barely more than 2 million which to be honest if it were true is pretty freaking good. That's roughly what Halo sold. But, seriously, Deception isn't getting numbers anywhere near Halo. What this all means is that it is possible that Deception sold like crazy for the first month and then tapered off pretty damn quickly. Otherwise we'd be seeing it on more top sales reports since October 2004 which we haven't. I've searched, believe me.

Trueking and Versatile,just because i simply disagree with the both of you doesn't mean,i'm stupid,you see you guys prove your immaturity by putting down other users for what reason??I understand this frame rate info,trust me,it's just the same song over and over again with tekken.Thats all i'm saying.Because i think Tekken is not a good game,so what.And once again,i have said this for like 1000,000 times now.I never said that Deception wasn't broken,it is a bit,but so what,because it's broken that means i still can't play the game anymore the right way???I have played Tekken,i have done the commands yet they don't come out all the time not nearly as smoothly as MK,SF KI.If you over do a game sometimes,it's just not any fun.It's not my cup of tea,ok,i'll leave it at that.

And a fighting engine isn't everything ok,this is where opinions come into play,lets face it people ok,some of us like fighting games for different reasons.Some are obsessed with the fighting engine and nothing but,others for characters,others for storyline,others for series longevity(MK and SF example)others for variety in a fighter,like Deception,you have the Kombat,Puzzle,Chess,Konquest etc,others for Depth,others for graphics.

So everyone just has their likes and dislikes about their fighting games,bottom line.I enjoy MK.

And one more thing,Fuzzdork,thats a very interesting FACT that you posted there,it's funny how people mock me for not believing their false banter about MK and Tekken stats,in the future i think i'll ask you first before certain people who think they know it all.Just checked out the link.LOL.Amazing,simply amazing.

Hey versatile,perhaps i can't argue frame rates between MK and Tekken,but i can definitely argue thats utter BS for someone to post false selling units about MK.Like Fuzzy mentioned earlier,GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE POSTING!!LOL

"Trueking and Versatile,just because i simply disagree with the both of you doesn't mean,i'm stupid,you see you guys prove your immaturity by putting down other users for what reason??"

Because you ARE stupid. You back up something blindlessly without giving any reason why besides it being fun and the gameplay being better than Tekkens, which it isn't. You don't play tekken outside of going to arcade mode, looking at the move list and doing the moves that do the most damage. You are a moron and you don't deserve an opinion.

"I understand this frame rate info,trust me,it's just the same song over and over again with tekken."

Again, stupid. No match in Tekken is the same. There's a variety of ways to win and different strategies to use that go way over the head's of feeble minds like yours. How can you possible say "it's the same song over and over again with tekken". Have you EVER seen a GOOD Dairou that doesn't play nearly the same way that M2Dave does?

"Thats all i'm saying.Because i think Tekken is not a good game,so what.And once again,i have said this for like 1000,000 times now.I never said that Deception wasn't broken,it is a bit"

HOLD IT! It is a bit broken? MORON ALERT! MORON ALERT! How can you say it's a bit broken? Tekken 4 is a bit broken. Soul Calibur 2 i a bit broken. MKD is trash and is not broken, but SHATTERED by thorough testing(not by testers, but gamers) and through trial and error. EVERYTHING YOU SEE AT HIGH LEVEL 90% OF THE TIME WAS NOT MEANT TO BE IN THE GAME YOU FOOL. Don't you feel stupid backing up a bunch of 30-40 year old developers who get PAID to make quality games when people 15-22 are finding game breaking shit the FIRST DAY IT COMES OUT?

"but so what,because it's broken that means i still can't play the game anymore the right way???"

Funny how you talk about how great MK's gameplay is, but yet I hear you're one of the biggest bitches on the Xbox side. Complaining about everything, but guess what, dumbass, you wouldn't be complaining if Ed Boon did his job.

"I have played Tekken,i have done the commands yet they don't come out all the time not nearly as smoothly as MK,SF KI."

That's only because Ed Boon made this game for morons like YOU who can't do a simple crouch dash or qcf motion.


"If you over do a game sometimes,it's just not any fun.It's not my cup of tea,ok,i'll leave it at that."

If you UNDER do a game ALL THE TIME it's just not any fun trying to convince morons like YOU that it FUCKING SUCKS. I'll leave it at that.

"And a fighting engine isn't everything ok,this is where opinions come into play,lets face it people ok,some of us like fighting games for different reasons."

No shit, sherlock, but you're saying that a game can't have good story AND good gameplay? That's just being narrowminded and simpleminded as well.

"Some are obsessed with the fighting engine"

Me

"others for characters"

Me

"others for storyline"

Me

"others for series longevity"

Me

"others for variety in a fighter,like Deception,you have the Kombat,Puzzle,Chess,Konquest etc,others for Depth,others for graphics."

Ummmm.....so? Don't tell me you'd rather have Chess,Puzzle Kombat and Konquest OVER good gameplay. If so, you're a moron sine those are side games.

"So everyone just has their likes and dislikes about their fighting games,bottom line.I enjoy MK."

Bottom line....WE ENJOY MK. Which is why we want it to be a better game. It sucks, and you know it. You probably just don't want to admit it. When it all comes down to it you can't blame the player for using infinites and glitchy cheese. Sure they're fags,but if Midway didn't put these things in the game they wouldn't be able to use it. So take all those tears, pour it in a bucket and toss it in the faces of Ed Boon and Company.

"And one more thing,Fuzzdork,thats a very interesting FACT that you posted there,it's funny how people mock me for not believing their false banter about MK and Tekken stats,in the future i think i'll ask you first before certain people who think they know it all.Just checked out the link.LOL.Amazing,simply amazing. "

I don't care about sales. Super Mario 64 sold more than Super Mario Sunshine..I like Sunshine more. I love Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time near equally, but if i had to choose..Wind Waker all the way. I'm almost sure Metroid Prime 2 didn't sell as well as Super Metroid, but I like that better too. I CAN say I like one better than the other because when it all comes down to it those are QUALITIY games made by QUALITY developers.

It's funny how the only thing you can SOMEWHAT argue intelligently about has nothing to do with the game itself. Go eat a f+3,throw,free combo from a random Bo scrub cry yourself to sleep, jackass.

"Hey versatile,perhaps i can't argue frame rates between MK and Tekken,but i can definitely argue thats utter BS for someone to post false"

That's funny seeing as how anyone with half a brain who's read my post on page 5 will tell you straight up that I'm right and you're wrong.

"selling units about MK.Like Fuzzy mentioned earlier,GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE POSTING!!LOL"

It's amazing how I'm more intelligent than several people nearly a 8 years to a decade older than me. I guess you can't grow out of retardation. Thank god I was born with a fully functional brain.

As a fair warning so you don't waste your already useless gaming existence replying, if you keep talking about sales and all this shit about yo thinking it's fun I won't reply. As far as I am concerned M2dave,myself,hdtran and tony destroyed your shitty opinion on pages 1-5. So if you nothing substancial to say I'll just let one of the other handle it and say simply that you're a fool. I love Yankee fans. They're always the dumbest. It's funny how my BoSox are nicknamed "the idiots".

Versatile,you see now you're getting desperate LOL,go a head keep calling me stupid,dumb,bla,bla,bla,bla.Wheres my violin LOL.

Little do you know that i have one of the best Dairous on live,but with your one tracked mind, some of you Ps 2 players think with half a brain instead of a whole one,you think all box players suck which is truley STUPID AND ARROGANT,(especially before even playing them)which you guys seem to prove you are.You all come on the xbox forums talk shit run your mouth about us,yet we never did a god damn thing to you.

You see,despite whether or not you want to admit it,you all know that you feel threatened,and don't tell me you don't because thats BS!!!!!If you didn't you wouldn't be coming on the xbox forums running your mouths like a drunk truck driver.So you try to wear us down,but it failed with your joke for a hostile takeover LOL.PLEASE.

You call yourself a MK fan,BS,your not.Deception is not perfect,but i still enjoy it.Tekken is crap,keep making excuse for it.I really don't care,I love it how when actual smart people like Fuzzdork post TRUE facts within both series,you tekken fans/anti-MK fans ignore it and just post your useless banter about how Deception sucks and Tekken is the perfect game,fuck that BS.I have played Tekken 5,it's just like Tekken 4 with a few tweaks here and there IMO.Same shit different day.

Even though online gaming is a big part of the future of games,its a big part of it,games like Tekken insist on avoiding it at all costs.Online isn't everything granted,but it's very important.

Hey listen,i'm a Nintendo fan ok,and even as a diehard Nintendo fan i MUST admit that without online for it's future consoles/games,the system/company would die.Guess what my friend,you really think that Tekken will last 10 years down the road in America without any drastic changes,without any kind of online play.Yet MK,SF,DOA,KI,GG,SC and every other fighter will be online except the little innocent perfect tekken series,AAAAAAAAAWWWWWW,wheres my box of puff tissues


Please just stop with the PS 2 arrogance,stop with the immature insults,stop feeding me this nonsense banter that i have heard time and time again.I'm not impressed.Enjoy playing Deception on a console that supports GS codes LOL,(even though you hate it and claim to be a MK fan)and i'll play on my cheat free system,thanks anyway.

Can't wait to play MK 7,i'll be looking forward to the changes.I'll play it regardless of what the future holds. Listen Versatile,i don't want to fight with you,lets just agree to disagree ok.This is only going to go back and forth between the Deception fans and Tekken fans.If you are game for a truce i am.

I didn't read any of that besides the last sentence. Sure....I still think your opinion sucks though.

That was a low blow man.



You don't understand and it looks like you never will. I won't sit here and explain what it means to be a fan of something. I'll just leave you with this: MK's failures are and will continue to be your fault, MK fan.

I will believe this post completely if you tell me:

1) What "SNB" stands for in reference to Tekken 5.
2) How a fighting game doesn't need a good fighting engine to be good

If not, I will carry on believing 1truKing, TTT, neo, m2dave, HDtran, versatile, konqrr, FLSTYLE etc, and politely request that you stay out of gameplay discussions which you are obviously unequipped to handle (

This here paragraph has been my favourite so far, it defines Mkflegend right down to the last brain cell.

Like I said, I judge games as a whole and not by certain aspects. For your information, I have problems with Tekken 5 other than things like the audio and some of the characters. Like I said, I didn't like the walls, because it tends to be a pain in the ass. Another thing I didn't like was the walking. I still feel that it's a bit of a problem. The jabs and crosses seem kinda cruddy in this game as well except for maybe some characters. I don't really get that feeling of safeness with those moves like I did in the earlier Tekken games. And yes, Steve is a cheap bitch. Nothing like my good friends 2, 4, and U + 3

If all I care about is fluff and cosmetics in a fighting game, why would I say that I find Tekken 5 to be a GOOD game?? And yes, MKD does have a lot of problems in the gameplay department. I know this already and I've constantly said that improvements MUST be made. How many times do I have to make that clear, 50? 100?? You tell me....

What's really sad is that you fail to read things carefully. Maybe you have symptoms of ADD like I do, except much worse. I don't know... Either way, I DO care about the gameplay in fighting games a lot. Otherwise, why the hell would I waste my time coming up with lots of interesting gameplay ideas for MK??

*thinks to himself* And they said my reading comprehension skills weren't that good....sheesh...

Are you trolling? No one (read:no one important/no one who comprehends the game) walks in Tekken.

Why doesn't anyone walk? Movement options beyond backdash cancel+walking.

Like I said before, Tekken is an interactive medium and MKF doesn't even understand the basics to make a moderate argument. When he says ignorant stuff like Tekken 4 is the same as Tekken 5, it's so hilarious it's laughable. It's like saying MK4 is the same as MKDA or MKD, only someone ignorant who doesn't understand the game would say something like that. It's like meeting some beach boy talking like "dur... dude... MK4 has Sub-Zero, he has freeze, weapons and combos, just like MKDA and MKD. Those games are exactly the same." It's just simply ignorant. I already made a big post addressing MKF in an unoffensive manner and since, like others have tried to enlighten him, he is one of those people who will and always understand only one game and thus defends it because he doesn't wish to understand other games of the similar genre. Thus his opinion has no scope when commenting on fighting games.

Anyways, I know a lot of you guys are frustrated trying to explain it to him, but really... you guys don't have to put yourself on his level by insults and personal attacks. He isn't going to listen, even from objective posts. I don't think anyone should try to give an opinion no matter how much factual information about the gameplay's system there is because frankly, he's too narrow-minded to even try to understand what the other side is saying for anyone to ever have a conversation with him unless you agree with him.

Mkf, you have such a one sided view of fighting games. Though you claim you have, I doubt you have played any fighting games besides MK.

I mean, you said MKD Online is superior to DOAU's online...are you an idiot? You then said you didn't like DOAU online because it was laggy?

When DOA has lag, it keeps you in the game with a little lag, when MKD has leag, it drops you both from the game in seconds, giving you a disconnect.

So shut up now plz.

Like I said, I judge games as a whole and not by certain aspects. For your information, I have problems with Tekken 5 other than things like the audio and some of the characters. Like I said, I didn't like the walls, because it tends to be a pain in the ass. Another thing I didn't like was the walking. I still feel that it's a bit of a problem. The jabs and crosses seem kinda cruddy in this game as well except for maybe some characters. I don't really get that feeling of safeness with those moves like I did in the earlier Tekken games. And yes, Steve is a cheap bitch. Nothing like my good friends 2, 4, and U + 3

You're a noob.Jabs are the safest moves in any Tekken.You got the games confused.MK is the one where a jab can be -20 on block.What the fuck is 2, 4, and u+3?Why are walls a pain in the ass?You basically didn't say anything in that paragraph.A legit argument would be that due to walls some characters can get a lot of damage because of the lack of wall-tech.

You see,you can talk about the gameplay,but you cannot talk about it without looking ignorant as MKF always does.It's so easy.If you don't play competitive Tekken or any other fighting game,simply do NOT post.You will look silly 95% of the time.Trust me.

m2dave, I believe he means Steve's uf+3, and 4~2.

Because, you can obviously loop those two like BRC's f+3, throw. (

OK,M2Dave,Little 15 year old kiddy,(wow you truly know NOTHING if you think DOA is better online than MK LOL)Versatile and X.


I'm done here talking about this topic.I really don't care if you guys believe me or not,and the low blow by Versatile is nothing.The statement is a typical sterotype that only a mental patient or an idiot would say.

FStyle,keep on the flaming kid,my advice find a tekken site you wanna be MK fan.

LOL,i love it,i love being hated by all of you,a 15 year old know it all,a guy that already has me beat yet has never played me in a single fighting game,a guy that thinks he made tekken,and a guy that just pops out of no where and starts giving me a Tekken test on a Mk forum LOL.I love it.And they call me ignorant lol.

The only one out of all of you that i have respect for after these posts are Tiger,Tiger,no listen man,i want MK to improve,i just love MK at the same time and have played all of the other fighting games besides,i just don't like them for my own reasons,just like you guys have your about MK,i have mine on others.


No you see tiger here's the difference man,theres a Fan of something and then there's a Perfectionist.Half the people in this thread want PERFECTION in MK 7.Yet NO game is perfect.And you know something say MK 7 is improved alot,i will bet you any amount of money that some of these PERFECTIONISTS will find something wrong with it.


Thats all from me,please feel free to flame me because i'm out of this ridiculous thread.

Like I told you all before, there's no use trying with someone ignorant like him. I don't hate you MKF, I feel sorry for you. You don't understand a thing about any other fighting game even at it's basic level and you even went out to copy/paste something incorrectly that you got off a forum thinking that you'd make a compelling argument. Oh well, there can't be people that are informed or smart if there weren't people that were ignorant or stupid.

Every person on this thread doesn't expect perfection, but if you weren't so one-sided, you would have read it several times already. Everyone here would be happy with at least a below average game. A game where 90% of the moves are useless, where there are a ridiculous amount of game-breaking glitches and infinites, and lack of strategic play is far from average. Also, your snide remarks about respect and crap like that, no one cares because I certainly as hell don't respect someone that puts his fingers into his ears and goes "na na na" everytime someone says something he doesn't agree with like you. Hell, I'd be happy if you didn't remember my user name because I'd hate to be associated with someone who fires off about things he doesn't understand NOR attempts to understand.

Anyways, onto bigger things than one individual's questionable intelligence, anyone think Shaolin Monk's VS mode is gonna be better than MKD? Wait, does Shaolin Monks have a VS mode? Not sure, but if it does, it'd probably be better than MKD's system. Kinda sucks though that it's not online nor in the arcades, would be fun to play a new MK at my university's arcade or go to Sunnyvale Golfland and play it there.

I concure that peeps need to nerf the insult shit...it's getting old. That goes for both parties.

MKFL:

We don't want perfection, man. We simply want it to work. It's that simple We don't want complexity. We want it to work. We don't want it to be tekken. We want it to work.

All these peeps are trying to do is explain why it doesn't work, which they have. Though some have done so in a more jadded, somewhat arogant sort of way "cough" VERSE!! "cough" . Whether or not particular individuals want to take the info for what it is or not, that's another issue. What these peeps are saying is not opinion, though. There are many, not just flaws, but failures both in design and implementation, pure and simple.

These problems that exist are very real. We want people to see that. We are not hating MK, we are trying to express what it really is and what it could be. What it should be and what we want it to be. That is the bottom line. In order for people to see these issues, however, they need a certain understanding. An understaning, not just of MK but, of basic fighter principles. The fundementals of why such works and how it works in conjunction with other mechanics.

As many have said, we aren't even asking for a super hardcore fighter. Many just want an average figher that can be played. Not some broken, half assed piece of trash. That's not asking much at all. I want a bannan split, but I don't want half of it laying on my tray. We just want an average bananna split with all the shit in the boat.

If you think about it, we are not asking for innovation or fresh, new, ground breaking ideals and mechanics. We just want what's there to work. That's the point we're at. Honestly, that's really sad, too. We are begging for something to be...average...that's not cool. What's even worse is that we haven't seen something average since UMK.

Though, something needs to be playable before it can be innovative. Knowing that really pisses me off. I look at MK and see something that could span soooo many player archetypes and so many types of players. There is so much shit MK could do. So much innovation and style it could express....but it simply doesn't. I myself DON'T want an average MK. I want a mind blowing, brain fuck of an experience. A multitude of experience says I'll be getting otherwise, though;, so I doubt such potential will ever be refined.

Edit: Regarding MK:SM - Dude, it has a wake up system, lol. Kang has a DP, too, so it's all good I hope it has a verse mode, because if it does I wouldn't be a bit suprised if it owned up MKD.

I thought there is a versus mode. Wasn't it shown in some videos already? I may be wrong, but I could've swore I saw a versus mode.

Haha I love these threads.

As far as sales figures go, MKD did drop pretty bad after it released in october. It hasn't reached Platinum Hits or Greatest Hits yet. For a game to be Xbox Platinum Hits, it needs to reach 500,000 sales. PS2 Greatest Hits, 700,000 sales. Great first month. Flopped after that. Tekken is far more popular. Fact.

Dude, you have NOTHING against me besides my age, how fucking sad. Now, 12 year old kiddy thats lying about his age saying he's 22, why don't you reaslise your wrong and leave.

Oh and yeh I'm 15, thats why I'm on a gaming forum. Your 22 and on a gaming forum, damn. I bet your some fat lonely man that has no job and sits on his comp all day.