this is wht ive been saying since MK:A was announced. at least capcom is listening to fighting fans. all this 3d gameplay stuff gets tedious and boring and there really isnt any good easy learning curve to it at all. can you imagine mk8 being mk2 gameplay with teh run added in and button mash combos out with the graphics of mk:A now that would rock and would get players back. they could do an arcade version first then a console version kinda like they did in the past. i think SF4 is gonna revive the arcade from what it ended up being and i hope hey dont put it to where you have to pay a buck to play but keep it at 50 cents.

MK4...2D gameplay....What is point of having 3D characters and stages then?

I love 2D fighters. That said I strongly believe MK should never return to what it once was. However as long as they don't return to their old control style I'd be more receptive to the idea.

i have always thought about this since they announced SF4 9 its a great idea

Good idea... except for the comparation, because sadly, in every new vid of SFIV, is more slowly and calmed...

Well, they say they're getting rid of Fighting styles.
And it is another new Generation. I honestly don't think they bring it back like that.
Although I would so freaking Love that.
Who knows they may not do it. =[]....=/

i think he means have all the graphics being 3D and maybe instead of having it to where you can do a stage fatal during the match keep it as a fatality. but you can still have the good 3D goodness but hte 2D fighting gameplay. get back to being simple not hard. that is what is turning people off from teh games now.

Even without the weapon combat system, if MK8 were to play like MK4, it would suck. Don't get me wrong. I think MK4 is fun to play sometimes, and I think it has some good things about it. However, MK should not return to its old control scheme and gameplay-style, otherwise you might as well have MK die for good.

I personally would rather have a 3D MK game with 3D graphics, a new fighting system (but not really getting rid of martial arts and weapons), etc. But if MK were to return to a 2D fighting system, it should be different from before and be significantly improved.

so you think that is what killed mk in teh arcades? nope it was the kombo system and the weapons. the rest was just fine as it was. the "3D" movement also killed it. then the fighting styles hurt big time. the less you have to think bout the fight the better and more fun it is. especially if it is on a even base. more or less. if you think if they had kept the gameplay the way mk2 was it would've died? actually i know alot of people and guys that were excited about mk3 and teh run button addition but was turned off by the kombos thing. then when mk4 cameout and they did the same thing but made it 3D? nope sorry if htey keep what they are doing as it is now im done with the new mk games. if they go back to what was their most popular game of the series and just addedthe run button in along with the 3D graphics of the new series they could easily have a huge hit on their hands. and then make it online for all syatems and bingo multi million dollar game. btw i still play mk2 so often.

I didn't say that. I said that if MK were to return to its former gameplay system, it might as well die off. It's best for MK to revamp their fighting system and bring something fresh. Maybe if you want a remake of MK1 and MK2 with 3D graphics and somewhat enhanced 2D gameplay, that might be ok. But for MK8, they have to bring in newness and really step up.

A lot of fans still love the classics, but that doesn't change the fact that the old gameplay style is outdated. MK needs a lot of changes, especially since MK8 is to mark the start of a new era altogether.

well as opposed to Street Fighter, MK had a pretty successful jump in to 3D(not counting mk4 of course) so there isn't really much of a reason to go back. If street fighter got 3d right when they attempted it, they would've never looked back at 2d guarenteed.

anyway, i'm a happy fighting game fan this year...mk8, SFIV, soul calibur, tekken....it's a good year to be a fighting game fan....something for everyone.

Midway listens to the fans, trust me I know a friend on here MasterMalone who even went to 06's E3 and spoke personally with the MK team and what the fans want, not to mention they read info on here when they can as Boon even said, and as a player of all MK's especially the 3D MK's(myself) especially online and such, they did address MKD's problems in MKA, MKA had their own but the game overall was actually playable and not an offensive fest of 50/50s like MKD's gameplay was.

The problem is most of the time, a lot of MK fans are ignorant to certain elements or like most games, the fans all want something different....put your shoes as Midway or any game developer in general and you'll find it's near to impossible please "every" fan in fact most developers even admit "you won't please everyone" so no matter how MK8 turns out, mediocre or great...some fans I'll be anything will still bitch about something, especially on here.....

On this idea, I don't think it's a good idea to follow in SF4's footsteps because for one, it was reverse situation with SF vs. MK.

In SF EX going 3D the fans hated it because it sucked for the most part, thus why they wanted the oldschool gameplay back again with 2D, just with the 3D cell shade look to it. Still, a 2D game regardless.

Secondly, SF4 isn't even out yet for one so I think it's a bit presumpturous to assume this idea, and the gameplay looks good but nothing spectacular not to mention 2D, so with MK it wouldn't work out because they've done the 2D already and are concentrating on improving the 3D element.

I'm excited for MK8 with the UR engine and sporting a whole new everything. They just need to improve upon certain gameplay elements that they introduced in the past 3 MK's and adding new elements to the online department.

Mortal Kombat did what Street Fighter hasn't done yet. It made the transition to 3D without being awful. Street Fighter EX series can't say the same.

As much as people seem to already love Street Fighter IV, I'm not so thrilled, not yet. I want an evolution of my franchise, and this seems like a major, simplified step back. All the advancements from Alpha and III seem to have been rather ignored, and it's ultimately a flashier looking, 3D version of a 2D classic without major revisions... unlike, say, the fluid depth of Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter, or even Dead or Alive, that rather drastically change their formulas and evolve.

So far, Street Fighter IV sounds to me like Street Fighter II in 3D. That might be fine for some people, but I won't get excited about Street Fighter IV just because it's Street Fighter and I have fond memories of the game from fifteen years ago....

Mortal Kombat does not need to follow Street Fighter's lead... it needs to have Street Fighter follow its lead. It needs to be amazing, daring, deep, easy to use, hard to master, and just mind-boggling in every way. It should be like Call of Duty 4, which any "true" shooting fan knows has the gameplay and pacing that puts the "popular" Halo 3 to shame. One may be more popular, but purists know the difference.

Mortal Kombat can take as long as it needs. But it needs to redefine not only itself, but the genre as well. Street Fighter IV won't do that. It'll give us exactly what we expect, take few chances, and be a crowd pleaser, but I expect more from my games.

^^well put.

and don't forget TNA IMPACT for ps3 and xbox360!

Agreed, very well put

Street Fighter EX was actually a very good game. Perfectly done. (well as perfect as the technology allowed at the time) I think that for the most part fighting games have suffered because they play in 3D and that slows down the action. It did suffer from the slowdown that plagues ALL 3D fighting games.

Let's be honest here. It's way harder to execute the moves in 3D than it is in 2D. Like I said the characters feel slugish and making the stages interactive adds absolutely nothing. There is a reason why no one cares about these MK games anymore.

MK2 is by FAR the best game in the series and all it did was pretty much tighten the controlls up a bit and cleaned up the graphics from the first one. The 2D fighting style is great because like another poster said, you don't have to think. You just react. And pulling off a 4 hit combo in which you actually had to work for every single hit is way more rewarding than a 8 or10 hit combo in which you only had to tap 3 or 4 buttons.

They need to simplify the game. Give us good TIGHT gameplay and great graphics and we'll come back.

As it is right now the characters all feel like they all weigh 300 pounds. That's no fun.

No way should MK8 follow SF4, the only thing(s) I see it lacks, is mastery.

Show expertise in what is still selling the old games, and combine that with what has been selling these new games regardless of the gaping pot-holes in performance.

Issues that effect Game play definitely have grounds in the 2D verses 3D debate. But it's not necessary to go back, in order to improve. Nimble 3D fights, could solve the problem. Faster paced action also contributes to this too. Because it's about how fun it is to play, at the end of the day.

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The underlining factor here, is that the 3D fighters have been trying to establish an "adrenaline rush" through how complicated it is to pull off moves with the buttons. You see? The "action" only starts if you are squirming around the controller some kind of weird way. People don't wanna sit there, and have it be an issue just to "try to make the character move" (in any game really). Humans, move intuitively(eyes blink, brows scrunch, we frown on impulse, ect..). So, that needs to reflect in what we play....especially on a subject that is pretty much mindless like a fight is.

I'm saying, I don't wanna be challenged just so that I can be able to play a fighting game.(LET ME PLAY!)...I wanna have to catch up to what I see others doing, through what I am already able to do once I pick up the controller....throOouUugh a given possibility that says; "I can do the same thing as others who are already performing well. BUT if I try a little harder, i can do what that guy is specifically doing, better than he can". (I bought the damn game like you wanted me to. Now gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme....) It's primitive intuitive demand. sht, it's primitive logic. Which is all it should take to play a fighting game.

That's why 2D still is a threat to 3D....
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In reference to what Garlador stated: "easy to use, hard to master". Well what does that mean really?

To me, it means that the game has controls in it that let's me have things I can do immediately. Special moves to perform, and fatalities I can pull off as a novice. BUT, if I look a little harder at what I'm already doing with my controller, the fast pace action and nimble fighters I've been experiencing, becomes a sort of "gateway drug" to the more complicated things that have always been possible for me. Special moves I could be doing and specific fatalities I could be pulling off if I wanted to master the same controls.. Everything right now in the 3D MK games just seem kinda random...even though things are confined to a system.

It allows the novice player the opportunity to get away from button mashing and all that, instead of forcing every-single-person to sit there and have to learn how to play, right from when we pick up the controller.

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If I remember this scenario correctly, I played my woman once in MKA on Ps2 a few months ago. She never plays video games at all but she quits based on "not being able to move out of the way fast enough". Then, I pop in MKT on the Ps2 and somehow, she figures out how to do Sub-Zero's freeze and slide moves, as well as part of a combo. We were playing each of them for about an hour.
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Just a random story I remember base on mere playability and fun factor.
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Remedy?

3D immersion with 2D responsiveness.

SF4 has a good idea, but I think it may be presenting itself backwards as far as being innovative(I'll have to wait to play SF4 first to see). We can have immersive arenas that let us travel around in them like we've been able to do these last couple MK games. But responsive 2D-like controls keep players around the game longer.

So to rephrase, I'd go with something like this: 3D environments, 3D characters, with 2D inspired game play.

Problem is, that IS MK so far during the 3D fighting games it has put out.

It's something I think Mk has been doing with their 3D fighting games, and is why 3D fighting game enthusiast disagree mainly with it's game play. It's cuz it's OLD. It's an Oooold method, which gets into dial-a-combo vs strings.

That brings me back to the first line and paragraph I wrote in this post. They are missing Mastery. They're missing Expertise in what they have been doing. As a matter of fact, the nineties might have seen the mastery of the "dial-a-combo" from MK already. So that when they made the jump to 3D, it fucked it up......

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Lastly here, there's more "shit" consider now too. Now, they have to get the animation right...Now, they have to get the camera angles right, let alone configuring the buttons on the controller, for what a character is capable of in a 3D environment via Motion Capture.

When before, all they had to do is assign the commands to the move the person was doing in front of the green-screen. People on this site can do that much now...Less, using sprites instead of having to go through the green-screen process.

So, MK8 should absolutely not follow SF4 by principal, but more by concept. Re-innovate the adrenaline rush, re-establish itself as the most brutal, scary, gruesome fighting game ever made. Re-invent the guilty pleasure in how it presented it's secrets....And most importantly, elaborate and perfect on the Story and 2D gameplay elements(the mere elements) that made the game a fun experience.

hm..

Or how about the 3D MK8 has a "minigame" that involves a 2D version of itself? Then everyone will finally STFU.
All the anime-loving nerds will have their 2D version, and for the people whose brains have evolved concurrently with technology will have their 3D Kombat.

Well if you had been paying attention for the past 2 years, you would have known by now the "the slow multiple fighting styles "bullshit" is being thrown out in MK8. No sense in bitching about something that won't make a come-back.

mortal kombat should be a top-down tactical rts

Now, unlike SF (which would be an epic fail in 3d), MK has succeeded in 3d & been able to produce quality games in it, even if they're not as good as the 2d ones. Though, MK should still simplify their fighting down to the basics and have it have the pace of a 2d fighter. Though, keep 3d in gameplay to allow a more fluid and realistic/gritty game/feel (or atleast as real as you could go in MK).

Ok...

first anyone... and i mean ANYONE who says MK4 was good, obviously hasn't played very much mk.

second. everybody keeps saying that nobody likes the newest editions of mk ( deadly alliance, deception, and armageddon) but they sell, and sell well. someone is buying them cause they want to play them. MK4 killed mortal kombat in the arcades, it had the biggest launch campaign, they practically shoved it down our throats with the mk road tour. trucks running everywhere with MK4 units inside.... if the game was the slightest bit good it would have succeeded, guess what it didn't.

third. I loved mk1 mk2(especially) and mk3. so if i want my 2d fighter fix i fire up M.A.M.E. on my computer and go to town. or get out my arcades greatest hits on my psp.

The new MK's should be revolutionary, 3d, and take advantage of the hardware available. And it should be deeper than jump kick sweep, upercut.
the only thing they need to get back from the original is REALISM. Drop the cartoony fighters and gimmiky fatalities. lets get real

sf4 looks like shit.

I wish they would do 2D again using insane graphics but it's just not happening. If anyone hasn't noticed Mortal Kombat changed after Tobias left.