My take on MK vs. DC Universe
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posted04/23/2008 08:16 PM (UTC)by
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Raidenwins
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02/09/2003 05:37 PM (UTC)
Well, it's been a few days since Midway officially unveiled MK vs. DC Universe. I have been very conflicted about the whole thing but here are my thoughts.

From a purely storyline point of view I don't like the idea of mixing the MK world with any other, just because it taints the purity of the MK universe. With that said though, Midway created MK so they have the right to creatively take it wherever they deem fit. What is really important to me is why they are doing the crossover. There could be two reasons, one because they feel that would be a good direction to creatively take MK towards, and two because they are not doing well financially and are hoping the shock and sensation value of introducing DC characters into MK games would help their sales.

Now, if it was the first reason I can live with it, I still don't like the idea but I can say to myself, 'Well, I don't like the idea, but if it's well done I'll give it a shot". If it's the second one then I'd hate it, but the thing is there is no real way of knowing. It's most likely a little of both.

One thing that struck me in Ed Boon's interview is when he said that he's wanted to do a crossover since the time of MK3. That leads me to think that, at least to a certain degree, the decision was based on creative idea. But of course then he said that their marketing team approached them with the idea of doing a DC crossover, which is an obvious evidence that to a certain degree they did it to cash in on shock and sensationalist value.

Either way, as I said above if it's done well I can live with it, as long as the story in the MK vs. DC is not cannon, i.e. if it's just a one time think, a what if sort of scenario, that doesn't really affect the actual storyline in the real MK world I'll be totally ok with it.

The second concern I have is with how good of a game it will be. Knowing Midway I am skeptical, especially after the debacle that was MKA. As they say, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. So with that in mind, if we look at the history of MK games there are certain patterns we can observe that can give us some clues as to the quality of MK vs. DC.

Here are the patterns that I have established in the years 1992-2006:

1. When Midway makes a MK game from scratch they usually do a really good job. Such was the case with MK1. Seeing as how it was the original MK game it was obviously done from scratch and the game was phenomenal, for me it is still the best MK game of all time. All aspects of the game were done exceptionally well, from the never before seen photo realistic graphics, to the well thought out plot, to the amazing characters, great gameplay, and exceptional sounds and music.

The same is true of MKII. Another MK game done from scratch, and another phenomenal achievement. Actually most people still think MKII is the highlight of the series and with very good reasons. I still don' care about the Friendships though wow

Then came along MK3, yet another MK game done from scratch. Undoubtedly not as good as MK1 or MKII, but still a really good game. I personally enjoyed it a lot, except for the fact that Raiden wasn't in it. It had great graphics, great sound and music, and some good innovations in the gameplay department. Then came along UMK3. I thought it was a good game, but I was a bit turned off by all the palette swapping. That was the first time Midway started exhibiting the tendency for lazy programming, lack of vision, and greed that was to dominate much of their future projects.

The above tendency continued with MKT, which was just UMK3 on steroids and was the worst MK game at that time.

Then came along MK4, which is a weird exception to the pattern of making good games from scratch. It continued the trend of bad MK games and was the low point for MK in general. Many a gaming media announced MK was over at that point. The biggest gripe I had with MK4 were the graphics. Both the arcade and the PS1 version (don't know about the N64 one) featured graphics that were just plain bad. Other than that it wasn't a horrible game, but I think it just didn't rise to the expectations that were placed on it.

That was followed up by a Dreamcast port of MK4 called MK Gold which I know nothing about, cause I never played it.

Then in 2002 MKDA was released and it revitalized MK. It was another game made from scratch and again it was very well done. To be sure, it was not of the caliber of MK1 or MKII, but it was a great game in its own right. It had pretty good graphics, great sounds and music (as always), good story, a good mix of returning and new characters, and a very innovative and fun gameplay. In many was, MKDA was a new beginning for MK.

It was followed up in 2004 by MK Deception, which was an equally great game. It took everything MKDA had and improved on it by adding online mode and a couple of other nice modes (I still say Chess Kombat was a great addition to MK, I wish they'd gone further with it in MKA). There were problems to be sure, mostly with the online mode but all in all it was one of the best games in MK history.

And finally, MKA came along a couple of years later. I personally consider it to be the worst MK game in history. I've written at length about the reasons why so I am not going to go into it here.

So basically the pattern is that they release a good game and then if they re-use the same engine the games quality generally drops.

So based on all that and the fact that there will only be 20-22 characters in MK vs. DC I think there is a good chance it will be a good game. When I say good I mean for the game overall. I don't expect the fighting engine to be anything to write home about. It certainly won't be anywhere near to being on par with Tekken 6 or Soul Calibur IV, but it will probably be better than MKAs.
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04/22/2008 10:47 PM (UTC)
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A pattern man eh?

Cool read, it's hard to find people that see the string of events like that...or the tendency and actually admit or profess that it's there. It IS there, no doubt.

I've stated before, and will continue to state throughout this thing, that my main gripe about this game is that they're gonna have to convince me to buy it...AGAIN. I was sure fire gonna buy it before a couple days ago though...completely turned off when the reveal came through.

I can't stand being "sold" something I don't want...so as stubborn as I am about what I spend my money on, it's likely I won't buy this game at all. I'll rent, and there's a possibility I'll get a used copy later or something....warrant is that it's a fantastic game though...that's a doubt ridden possibility however.

I am a little peeved about the story and the two universes mixing together and all that, cuz it's a major part of what I pay for when I buy an MK game(as well as the expected mature content...adds prestige for me). And I don't want what they're doing with it at-all. Just not interested. I hope it's non-cannon too. But anyway, that's supporting anguish I guess. lol

Doesn't trump the other thing though.
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nastynate
04/22/2008 10:47 PM (UTC)
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man you could have created a 400 page book already filled with peoples "thoughts" and opinions on this game
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mkflegend
04/23/2008 02:00 AM (UTC)
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I see your point RW, but only disagree with ya on a few issues. MK:DA had the best sidestepping factually out of the 3 3D games, in MKD and MKA it got more stiff....Check also I believe did a video proving this. I must say I agree so in that aspect, I thought that MK:DA was the best in that sense as well as MKA being better then MKD in the gameplay department but hey, we all have our preferences.

On the second one, I don't like it when some people act as if Tekken, SC are "perfect" because they're not, SC especially is a pure button masher, that's not very in depth gameplay if you ask me and Tekken just hasn't changed "dramatically" in years, at least MK, SF try new things over the years but the older MK's were on par or just as good if not better then any other fighter out at the time MK2, UMK3 etc I mean it was the rival of SF and just killed KI like nothing....

Tekken, VF have always been 3D because it's all they know. I'd bet if they made say a 2D game, it would suck at first...just like we've seen SF and MK struggle a bit at first going 3D.

MK vs. DC isn't out yet so it's way too early to judge but the on par thing is just opinion, if it plays well then that's all that matters. Either way it'll bank lots of cash between both MK and DC fans and the gameplay will be better then the previous few MK's I'm betting.

Should be interesting thoughglasses
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TrueNoob
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04/23/2008 03:41 AM (UTC)
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Not to be off topic, but to address the first post:


MK4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MK:DA





There, I said it.





Eat it.
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Raidenwins
04/23/2008 01:31 PM (UTC)
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TrueNoob Wrote:
Not to be off topic, but to address the first post:


MK4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MK:DA





There, I said it.





Eat it.



You can say whatever you want, but unless you back it up with facts it means nothing.
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Raidenwins
04/23/2008 07:01 PM (UTC)
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mkflegend Wrote:
On the second one, I don't like it when some people act as if Tekken, SC are "perfect" because they're not, SC especially is a pure button masher, that's not very in depth gameplay if you ask me and Tekken just hasn't changed "dramatically" in years, at least MK, SF try new things over the years but the older MK's were on par or just as good if not better then any other fighter out at the time MK2, UMK3 etc I mean it was the rival of SF and just killed KI like nothing....

Tekken, VF have always been 3D because it's all they know. I'd bet if they made say a 2D game, it would suck at first...just like we've seen SF and MK struggle a bit at first going 3D.


First of, SC is not a button masher. I've played quite a bit of SCIII the last few months due to the lack of a good MK game, I practice with one of the best players in the country, and recently went to a tournament where some of the best players in the country participated and I can tell you for a fact that SC is absolutely not a button masher. There is a lot of skill and strategy involved and a noob player that attempts to button mash will have absolutely no chance against a good player.

However, I will agree with you that at the time of the old skool MKs the games were on par and better than any other fighters out there. In fact, in the period 1992-94 whenever MK and MKII were out in the arcades they were on top of the fighting games world. It wasn't until the time of MK4 that MK started falling behind (in terms of fighting engine). Sadly, again only in terms of the fighting engine, MK still lags behind the likes of Tekken, VF, and SC. As far as all other elements of the games though, such as graphics, storyline, characters, sound and music, etc. MK is more than on par with the rest of the fighting games. In fact, I consider MK's storyline, characters, and game atmosphere to be the best of any fighting games.
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mkflegend
04/23/2008 07:27 PM (UTC)
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Raidenwins Wrote:
mkflegend Wrote:
On the second one, I don't like it when some people act as if Tekken, SC are "perfect" because they're not, SC especially is a pure button masher, that's not very in depth gameplay if you ask me and Tekken just hasn't changed "dramatically" in years, at least MK, SF try new things over the years but the older MK's were on par or just as good if not better then any other fighter out at the time MK2, UMK3 etc I mean it was the rival of SF and just killed KI like nothing....

Tekken, VF have always been 3D because it's all they know. I'd bet if they made say a 2D game, it would suck at first...just like we've seen SF and MK struggle a bit at first going 3D.


First of, SC is not a button masher. I've played quite a bit of SCIII the last few months due to the lack of a good MK game, I practice with one of the best players in the country, and recently went to a tournament where some of the best players in the country participated and I can tell you for a fact that SC is absolutely not a button masher. There is a lot of skill and strategy involved and a noob player that attempts to button mash will have absolutely no chance against a good player.

However, I will agree with you that at the time of the old skool MKs the games were on par and better than any other fighters out there. In fact, in the period 1992-94 whenever MK and MKII were out in the arcades they were on top of the fighting games world. It wasn't until the time of MK4 that MK started falling behind (in terms of fighting engine). Sadly, again only in terms of the fighting engine, MK still lags behind the likes of Tekken, VF, and SC. As far as all other elements of the games though, such as graphics, storyline, characters, sound and music, etc. MK is more than on par with the rest of the fighting games. In fact, I consider MK's storyline, characters, and game atmosphere to be the best of any fighting games.


I agree with your second point except on the storyline, characters and intriguing overall game. I think MK has always owned the other fighters and still do even now, despite the changes in the currently storyline at least it's a storyline to work with...Tekken, SC, VF to me are a joke in that department but do agree in the gameplay department they've handled the 3D mechanic well.

But yeah, like I said I agree with the first part of your second post. The old MK's ruled the 90's with SF, that's why fans of both series can't get into the newer games now from either side because they miss and are in some cases "stuck" in the 2D era which I can't blame some of them honestly because those games ruled.

On the SC bit, I just happen to disagree with ya there. I've played all of the SC's and SC3 I hated the most....it's also known as the worst out of the series by most SC fans if you read around but hey I know some people like it, just like they like MKA or SF EX even or hell MK4 even has a little fanbase. SC having SW characters in it, ehhh I'll admit that turned me off a bit. I mean lol some people think MK vs. DC or Marvel vs Capcom is odd or silly but I think having vader and yoda in the SC universe is just pointless lol. I think they know SC3 struggled and are going for some SW fans to get it and get involved to get more money. Tekken is the only big fighter thus far that hasn't done a crossover with anyone. SC has with Link, Spawn, Yoshimitsu(tekken guy so not a big deal) and now with SW characters lol. Marvel has crossover with SF, MK with DC now, SSBB with Snake lol and even DOA4 with a female Halo character(MC) but a female MC

SC and Tekken to me, I don't know I think it's Namco they just don't seem to like "change" that much in terms of gameplay, now I understand that the same game over and over with little change satisfies the fans from the gameplay perspective but at the same time I think those fans are different then the MK and SF fans in the aspect of characters, storyline, online play and the jump from 2D to 3D. I really do believe that namco is afraid of 2D, side game or trying anything new because they'd most likely fail at it like MK and SF did going 3D at first, it's a risk but sometimes life it about risks in this respect I respect MK and SF for at least wanting change and improving upon it little by little since they didn't at first where Tekken and SC have always been the same game with little change other then a few newer characters.

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m2dave
04/23/2008 08:16 PM (UTC)
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Oh my...

TTT, T4, and T5 all play nothing ALIKE, MKF. Please stop the nonsense and play the Tekken series first competitively if you want to make such outrageous claims.

And, if Soul Calibur is a button masher / easy to play, only Lord knows what that would make MK:D.
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