I hope not.

I want Rayden in the game...but please, not as any form of "boss".

I like the idea of Raiden turning evil, and being the boss, but save that for MK9.

Doesn't make sense for Raidens character or personality. Past, present, or future.

You'd have to make him a "bad guy" first. Which means, he'd have to say...kill the people he was helping. But since he's still protecting Earth, I can't see that happening.

And besides, I hope they don't do that with this game. Last thing I'd love to do is combat n00bs over the fact that this bad idea isn't canon.

So, to clarify, if they wanna make Raiden a boss character, I'd take him, but he has to do a series of things that go against what he's been about, and what he's still about. It's possible from his perspective on things right now, but they'd have to be careful about how they do it though. DO NOT FORCE IT.

Like "tah dah, Raiden evil for no apparent reason". He's gonna have to go through a process...kill pure, innocent individuals...ect.

Otherwise, he still should only be aiming at the bad guys and protecting earth. I'd love to see him demolish a clan or two (or, fuck it, all of them if they wanna get rid of a few of these stale characters [lol]...exterminate whole sections of "the threats to earth" and blame it on Raiden and Zombie Kang. He would at least finally prove why all these individuals have been taken back by him in any past MK media..Him and Zombie Kang are capable afterall) and at least one Big bad guy in his "tainted" state.

Shinnok, Onaga, Shao Kahn...imagine the consequences of something like that...

a.) Shinnok: If Raiden Kills Shinnok, Raiden could take over NetherRealm. An indirect consequence that he may or may not want to take advantage of. But would at least leave the thrown open to the likes of Quan Chi, Scorpion, Noob Saibot, Drahmin...ect, ect..

But think about that. Before, Raiden probably wouldn't, or couldn't go to the NetherRealm because he was a pure un-tainted individual. Well, he's tainted now...he can go there. And if he does, and stays too long, along with his Champion Zombie....(??)

b.) Onaga: Virtually the same thing as Shinnok, but for OutWorld. Also might effect whether or not Onaga kills Shao Kahn first. Raiden might wait for that to get finished, then bounce on Onaga with Zombie Liu Kang.

Seeing as how Onaga doesn't have those Kamidogu anymore (so he's nowhere near as powerful.) He shouldn't have such a resistance to Raidens element, or God attacks now. Raiden & Kang CAN take Onaga anywhere. Raiden vs Onaga alone on Earth, Raiden prevails. Good fight though.

c.) Shao Kahn: If Raiden kills Shao Kahn, there's an opportunity to get rid of alot of the roster. 15-20 characters I think it was, depending on who has ever pledged allegiance to Kahn in the past.

Execute that, and we should get new good guys and bad guys in the future. Let alone alot of the universes realms would return to peaceful times.

========in the end===

What does "tainted" Raiden and Zombie Kang do then? Just...go back to normal, or what? That is...if they succeed.

What if Raiden and Zombie Kang die (again, but for good) trying to do any of this^^? What if you stopped Raiden and Kang, put Kangs body backin the ground, and made Raiden human for his malevolence as a "protector God"?

I'm still support having someone stop him, make Raiden Human, and having the elder gods challenge Raiden to Mortal Kombat in a human life (no god form to consider then). That way if they wanted to, Raiden could logically die in MORTAL Kombat. Or he could logically be granted back into god hood after learning a "life long lesson"....and winning Mortal Kombat. Has to win for it to work all the way though. Should be tough, right?


------

Anyway, you see? There's alot to consider when you just try to *poof* Raiden evil, and make him a boss character. "The shit has to hit the fan" in order to do that. ALOT of "SHIT"....cuz he, and Kang are still tied together, and they both are connected to the rest of the roster directly, and indirectly. .

Well, since this game is projected to take place between MK2 and 3, I don't think the tainted issue would come into play. But if it did, I don't think Raiden can be considered good any more as things stand.

From Konquest and Liu's MKD ending, it's pretty apparent that Liu's killed many innocent people, which would entail that either Raiden doesn't care or is unaware of the consequences of his actions. The latter is possible I guess, but I can't see Raiden being that careless. Tainted or not, he's still a god.

I think the real argument is whether Raiden is evil or insane.

I get that first point now that I know "when" this game kinda takes place. I posted this before I "heard it from the horses mouth".

On the evil or insane deal, he's neither. Responsible? Yes. Which leads towards the idea I have where he should be held accountable, and eventually punished.

But he's not insane, and he's not evil. He's almost, no where near those. Maybe rogue...that's close.

Twenty years later, bosses that are exclusively evil seems like such an outdated concept. Sure, that's always going to have the majority share, but where's our imagination?...

Raiden is just corrupt right?

I'm not saying make him evil...

It's one universe against the other... he is the protector of earth and leads the MK side into battle... that's why if you're playing as Batman for example u would fight Raiden once you've defeated his warriors or something... we don't know how the story mode will go yet

Well, he should either a) be decieved into protecting Earthrealm from percived threat of the DC people, or b) turned evil just like how Predator said.

Yea, well, "Tainted" is the word of the day....

The way I take what he's doing, is equal to "irritated" or aggravated to the point of action. "Ruthless" doesn't mean evil, or corrupt really. It means "by any means necessary"...even if it makes him look bad. But the mission he's on is quite clear. "Get Rid of the Known Threats to Earth No Matter what it takes".

Like, if people kept coming into your house unwarranted, and violating your rules, what would you do? Continue to not do anything? Or ACT on it?....you might even take a buddy with you, right? Same thing Raidens doing..

The only "problem", is the way Raiden's doing things. It is that he's going out of his way to get the bad guys. aka Rid Earth of the KNOWN Threats".

I figure as a God, the way he's doing things, AND what he's conveniently "letting happen" has gotta be against a "God Code of Honor//Credo" or something to resurrect Liu's corpse, and mingle with the bad guys to get a job done. And whoever the corpse hurts..kills, Raiden should be held responsible for. Cuz it is his fault. Raiden has no business exercising necromancy. Not unless it's like, to "guide a soul to or from Heaven or Hell.(Jonny Cage MK4)

But anyway, none of that makes an individual evil or insane. He knows what he's doing, what brought him to that point, and is methodical about what he's doing = not insane. And the purpose for which he is doing what he's doing is justified, because there are actually multiple real threats to Earth = Not Evil.



I would have to have you describe that vantage point on Raiden.

Something I learned from a similar argument with XD84 is that the other characters in the game could "perceive" him as Evil, and get in the way. Cuz, if you get in Raiden(or Zombie Liu Kangs) way right now....

Both of them would kill you. But that's not their intention. IF the other good guys stayed out of the way, Raiden and Liu Kang are a powerhouse as far as protecting Earth is concerned.

They could wipe the clans out, and even probably all of the current boss characters together. Zombie Liu Kang as the scout, Raiden as the commander.

thx for the answer Predator151

Well, there's two things I still disagree with.

Why the necessity of dead innocents? Liu Kang didn't act as an assassin so much as he just mindlessly rampaged (unless I'm misunderstanding the storyline). I'm not clear what Raiden was trying to accomplish, unless he just didn't know the extent of Liu's murdering. But again, I find it hard to believe that a deity wouldn't know what his pawn was up to.

Second, there's issue of rationality. He didn't seem to be too aggressive with Kahn in Onaga when he was discussing a possible alliance. I would have imagined they would of been Liu's first victims. I mean, if he truly thinks what he is doing is right, then he's guiltless. But both the audience and the other characters recognize his actions as, vaguely speaking, bad.

So my question is this: if everyone else can recognize Raiden's actions as evil, why is Raiden himself unable? Why would he be killing innocent villagers but striking deals with Onaga?

And let's remember what Fujin said:

"It is unclear to me what has caused the transformation in our friend and ally Raiden. I have conversed with gods from other realms about the possible reasons for his madness. Rumors abound that he may have sacrificed himself to defeat Onaga. But if that were true, his energies would have dispersed and then reformed in Earthrealm. His spirit would have been reborn, having no memories of the past. He would have become a new god of thunder, neither good nor evil."

So something already isn't right here. There may be the question of whether this is really Raiden as we knew him before.

Well, people don't like corpses? Idk where that's coming from actually. I don't remember it ever being stated that Zombie Liu killed a bunch of innocents.
You'll have to show me.



In his bio, Shinnok catches him in the act of resurrecting Liu Kang, and proposes an alliance. Anybody after that wouldn't be approched aggressively. And, I'd assume that if Raiden does actually "command" Z.Liu, he wouldn't have him attack while he was "spinning his web".

He'd need to show face, deceive those bosses(which is essentially all of their motives anyway, to decieve one another), and then get them when nobody is paying attention. Enter the fight with Taven. Taven gets in the way, raiden has to fight him ect.. The only questionable issue is whether that fight is canon or not....and if Raiden let him win for any reason that might give him gain in what he's doing. I hate that he looses to Taven though. Cuz it's totally unlikely.

Lastly, the only substantive reason I can gather people are calling what Raiden is doing "bad", is because of his black clothes. *shrugs* lol!

There's no other logic//illogical reason for not seeing through that...



Again, you gotta show me where Raiden or Zombie Liu Kang did something like that.

The only person that's notable, that's been killed by either of them, is Shujinko. Shujinko was essentially "innocent", but he was disruptive in his innocence. = In-the-damn-way.

*zap!*

lol



Naw, I believe it's him. He just needs to get a hold of the way he's doing things. Maybe after he kills someone worthy he'll calm down.

Who knows.

===============
Also, sounds like you missed few things, including the inference that he may just playing along with Shinnoks scheme in order to get what he wants for Earth.

No longer will I entrust the safety of Earthrealm to the free will of mankind. The time has come to take matters into my own hands

Centuries ago I defeated an ancient sect of necromancers, the Houan. Though their members subsequently were scattered to the winds, their ancient underground temple still existed, abandoned and unused for ages. On the stone walls within were etched enchantments that would revive the dead. Strewn about were the enchanted chains of binding the Houan would use to control their undead.

I laid the corpse of Liu Kang on a ceremonial altar and bound it with the shackles. Reciting the unholy enchantments, I brought to life the body of my former ally and infused it with a thunderclap of lightning. The corpse of Liu Kang would be no mere zombie; it would serve as my ultimate enforcer. Satisfied, I then set free this abomination to wreak havoc on those who have done harm to Earthrealm.

Though I tried to conceal my activities, my use of the dark energies did not go unnoticed. Shinnok appeared before me and proposed an alliance. He would help secure the protection of Earthrealm in return for my aid in some undisclosed plot. I am no fool. I know well the treachery of this former Elder God. I accepted his offer and will complete this task, but only to discover his true objective. Until then, I will use Shinnok to serve my own ends.

Raidens Bio

Fujins Bio

Shang Tsungs Bio

There's a couple of the relevant ones...I thought there was one more though...

I was really being more general, but Raiden's a character pretty well position to be a boss that isn't necessarily evil. I like to think the nobility of the character has been, at best, shortened by impatience and a sense of responsibility for everything that's beseiged the MK universe.

It's not hard to imagine the "evil" Raiden averting disaster by being more proactive, even if only by matching the manipulative exploits of his foes.
A zero tolerance policy, or even just a firm intervention, needn't be villainous.

It doesn't take a lot to imagine a more ambigous or well-intending Raiden as a boss, but the point is general. Why wouldn't Ryu -- not EVIL Ryu -- but the supreme martial arts warrior we've grown with for the past twenty years, be the boss? The students become the master!

For MK, we've arguably crossed the threshold of a new generation.
Maybe playing intolerant boss is the slap in the face Raiden needs to realise that, if anything, he needs to step back even further than he already was, into anonymity, to allow new legends to be born.

Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Liu Kang? These guys are the legends, now!

Hm, that's actually a really good point.

See, although I'd disagree on Raiden filling that position, "a Host" is not out of the question for once. Hell, a host with a purpose is not even out of the question...

I figure if we stop "merging the realms" here, we can get a good contest started again, and introduce some new characters that way. Old characters would just have to play new roles. Some playable, some secret, some un-playable.

I disagree on Raiden being that person simply because, look, the mere color of his clothes magically makes him "evil" in most n00b cases. And having Raiden associated with a boss roll would only solidify what I feel is a misinterpretation of the character. Especially right now.

I mean, you take light Raiden, and make him the "boss", except that he's merely the "host" after something like Armageddon?....then you got something.

But like said, I'd take Raiden as an "evil character", he's just not that right now. They'd need to dig in and actually develop the character in-to that....No character trait points to it at this point.

I'd much rather have a playable Human Raiden (non-god), with a backstory that brings him to this point in complex, and dramatic fashion. All mentors have complex pasts...Who would he train up as a human? Would he bother? Would he wither away and die out of shame? ect...

They could redesign everything (except the hat lol) about him then too, and it would be feasible.

That stuff is more interesting to me than, "Raidens a boss".....now what?

well i hope hes in it but not as a bad guy

Raiden has now sort of become the "Magneto" of MK.

.... im sure Raiden is gonna be in the game.... at least i cant imagine him not being in the game.... but yeah as boss??? no i doubt it highly... Raiden will be in the game but not as "Dark Raiden". he will be like he use to be.

right now im thinking the boss character is same for either side. if it were to be any one from MK to be the boss.... it would be Shao Kahn end of story.


Ed Boon said that this games story line is not canon but takes place around MK2/MK3. id say most likely some where actually between MK2 and MK3 considering the costumes....

Sorry I'm somewhat late with this. I've been busy with a heavy combination of working and drinking. But better late than never, I guess.

The dead innocents bit came from Liu Kang's bio in MKD:

"Somehow my corpse retains my knowledge of martial arts and has killed many innocents"

As far as I know, that is the only mention. One can read out another in Liu's ending if they tried, but the above is the only explicit evidence. Granted, there is still the issue of to what extent Raiden controls Liu Kang, but that just pushes the stage back further. Could he not foresee something like this happening? If he could, then he's morally apathetic, but if he couldn't... well, I can't imagine him not having the foreknowledge. It's possible, I guess. But isn't he a god?

As for the schemes between Raiden and MK villains, I'm reluctant to even argue being that I haven't played the games nor reviewed the story in so long. Given that everything you've stated sounds solid, I can see where you're coming from, and for the most part, agree.

But ya gotta admit, the red eyes and black clothes are typically symbols associated with evil, especially when seen in congruence. They aren't necessarily evil, though knowing that MK often utilizes cliches, there is the question of why they would attach the darkness motif to Raiden.

Since it takes place between two and three, I dont see Raiden being a boss. Hell since it takes place between two and three you might see Scorpion defending Sub-Zero.

But I think in future continuation of MK, Raiden will turn over to a darker, more violent, more threatening character. Making him available to be a boss in the Future.

Can someone please show me where he said that this game takes place between MK2 and MK3?

I don't think we should be afraid of losing characters to logical progress.

if he is ultra powerful(which him and shinok really should be more powerful then all other creats cause they are gods) i think it could be awsome idea
im sick of nightwolf and rain having the move that would ultimatly fit best with raiden

- Alright, now I remember reading that passage from Liu Kangs bio.

- I don't believe the gods in MK are all seeing. I used to, but now I don't. Cuz if they could, wouldn't they have seen Onaga + Shujinko coming? MKD probably wouldn't have happened if they saw what was going on before, or during it's progression.

However, I don't think that excuses Raidens behavior. In fact, I think it incriminates him further. I mean, he's eternal, surely experience has taught him that an action has a consequence. And in this case, he knew exactly what he was doing.

So yea, I don't think he knew Z. Kang was going to go off and kill innocents, but he knew that the Zombie was going to go cause problems for a lot of individuals. No matter the alignment.

- I'll admit that much. As a fan of the character though, I saw right through it from the start. Over here, I was waiting in anticipation for him to right out blatantly "do something bad".....and he never really did.

It's all perceptual interpretations after that.



Ha! Try and explain the logic in that progression.

And do note, I'm not "afraid" of loosing Raiden to a natural progression. Raiden was not in MK3 or UMK3, MK: Myth, or MKSM as a playable character. And those were for no real reason at all...

If I was, then why would I support the current costume?

Anyway, yea, you're gonna have to explain the logic in the progression you're talking about. I'm quite interested.