Raiden shouldn't be a final boss if most of the DC characters could whoop his ass! Captain Marvel, Superman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern would tear him to shreds.

Like last time, it was just a general statement. A response to the reluctance to move characters into new roles that may or may not suggest a transition out of the game.

Raiden's brushes with resigning to the role of Elder God are probably the most obvious references. I'm not writing MK8 fan-fiction here, but for the sake of the point:

If you really have to connect it to Raiden being a boss, there's always some hoohah about sense of responsibility, zero tolerance, and learning the error of his ways post-battle.

It's not like it would be a spontaneous shift in the character. They've played with a distanced, if not evil, approach to the character since the first game. The precedent for a shift is there, and it's arguably much easier to swallow than constantly asking us to accept Raiden as a character on human-level.

To the general point, if the team had had more conviction when putting Fujin forward, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. I think, when forced to accept the change, most people worried about losing Raiden would learn to accept a substitute. If we were lucky, we might even get a character who's more than a facsimile.

Why would Raiden have to be evil to be a boss? He could just be the boss for the DC side. Of course, as it is we're getting this "two conquerors combined" thing as the boss, most likely.

Seems like nobody in this topic picked up the hints in Deception that Raiden's turn to the dark side is due to the subconscious influence of the One Being.
Y'know...the same thing that turned Shao Kahn evil long, long ago, after all those villagers in Konquest made such an effort to tell you again and again that Kahn used to be a nice guy just like Raiden?

Okay, I'm definitely not one who is hard to grasp a concept. And I can see a way or two that they could "turn Raiden into a boss or evil boss character that'd make sense if they went in the general direction of that. But there's a condition or two attached to it based on what he's doing in his story right now.

You don't mentally just...decide to be an evil boss one day, it's either a perceptual thing imposed on you from a group of individuals, OR, it's a progressive inch in-to the role.
--

1. One way to take him from his current state into "just a boss", not evil or anything just as is, could see Raiden fight the inference that the One Being has something to do with the transition into "dark Raiden".

~This could see him demolished assuming the One Being is "All powerful". OR, it could see him returned to "light Raiden" if he, & or the other characters beat the taint within Raiden right now.

2. Another way, but to take him from his current state in-to an evil boss character, would see Raiden kill some baddies, and that success lead him to beleive that everyone is bad. And that his way is the best way. Include the Zombie.

~See number 1, but without the One Being as a force, and only dealing with the taint. Either way though, it would make sense.

3. Another way, the way I'd prefer, and think would be most interesting, would see Raiden punished for what he's doing right now, and actually demoted to exactly what they've been relating him to all these years...a human. Also, does he accomplish anything? and what is he punished for? Waay more interesting for the character.

~This way, he could either die as a mortal, or win Mortal Kombat and become a god again. Again, waaay more interesting to see a former god struggle with only being mortal.

aaaand

4. The last route I could see feasible, is if he were still "light Raiden", and would simply see Raiden as the host of a new contest.

~Doesn't effect his life or death, just breeds new characters for future games. Aligned with good and evil.

--

THAT's what you do to Raiden. Any variation, all with feasible, justifiable, reasonable consequences.

You don't just *poof* "Raidens a boss" all of a sudden out of the story that's there for him right now. THAT would deem him fit to an illogical and inconsequential death. And yea, THEN I would be pretty pissed off. lol!

EDIT:

Noh, I caught it. I just don't run with that, or the inference that "this may not be the real Raiden" first. It's almost too hypothetic for my taste at the moment.

I just use what's there, and if they switch it, I adapt to the facts that are most current.

EDIT: EDIT:

Prove it!

lol

I don't know if you're actually talking to me, but I agree with this, particularly matters of making Raiden evil. That hasn't changed since earlier in the thread, or my last post.

I'm personally not terribly fond of the One Being as such a heavy handed, boring function used for quick fix manipulations in characters, but that's a matter of personal preference.
I think it's much more interesting to think of 'the One Being' as a cosmic state, and a concept akin to a vague, quantum influential karma, rather than a consciousness that's in ur Realmz maken Ur evilz.

I also think the more we can distance ourselves from making Raiden an on-again/off-again human, the better. I'd much rather finally settling on pushing him into the background [as an Elder God]. It feels much more like progress than commiting to a permanent ten steps back, which don't really imply any kind of arc.

Raiden as a boss, whether it's the good version or the "somewhat" evil version, I wouldn't mind. I would actually be shocked to see him be a boss in this game.

I always though Raiden should be the boss, and a long time ago when MK3 first came out, I thought he was the boss for that game only because he wasn't in the roaster. Let alone my age during the time, I was not even 10 years old, which meant I wasn't aware that video games had story lines.

That's why children under the age of 8 should play. Just joking, but seriously getting back on the topic here... I would personally enjoy having a character such like Raiden to be the boss of this game. I'm really not too happy with this merging idea, but I'm praying that this merged character isn't a twat and is all shitty and shit like that.

I'm with ya on the One Being idealism. I mean, what else do you do with him after we wakes up and kills everybody then eh? It'd be the most lame copout ever. "Ya, letz yooz teh b1g unse3n m0nst3r to k1llz ev3ree-1'z




Oh come on...you mean to tell me, you wouldn't dig the irony?

"Raidens so close the the humans right? So he went against the Elder Gods wishes, lost Mortal Kombat, went and got himself tainted, and did everything in his power to defeat the threats to earth. Only to put himself in the position to actually become.....a human."

Dude that's awesome! lol I'm in love with that idea.

We'd get a new character out of him and everything...haha.

Fifteen years later and three or four rounds of Raiden relinquishing one status for another... I'm not so sure it has the resonance it used to.
If the character's going to change, I'd much rather it be motivated toward a conclusion. The last thing I want to do is have a human Raiden, which, as implied explicitly by a couple of the games, is effectively what we've been playing all along.

As protector god of Earthrealm he can keep doing what he's doing, or if we're going to change it up, I think going out with a big bang before being pushed aside (as an Elder God), is a better way to go. The other option's sailed.


My preference would be for the One Being to not be a consciousness or entity at all, just to clarify, too. That's probably the last circular discussion I feel like having right now, though.

An interesting concept, but I don't see it happening honestly.

I think the "one being" would be a better antagonist if they would actually enable it's presence more. Being that it's acting subconsciously, there is the possibility of it manifesting independently of the actions of other characters (which I agree, has gotten trite and hasn't gone anywhere).

Obviously, we can never encounter the character itself, since the realms as well as the creations of the realms are all fragments of it's mind. That need not mean the subconscious couldn't manifest itself as an actual character.

It wouldn't truly be the one being, but it's a step up from having another tyrant boss, or even worse, a wannabe tyrant alliance.

Well you know....just to toy with the idea a little bit here, he could be killed as a human. And if he were involved at all, or challenged//punished to participate in the Mortal Kombat contest, he could win or loose with an ultimate ending more logical than just immediate induction into the pantheon. I don't think the character is ready to go there, and stay there, yet.

a.) But, if he looses, and dies in Mortal Kombat as a human (plain & simple then), he dies logically. bit more irony there.

b.) If he wins, he'd probably stay where won the place to be(either to get his god-ship back, or possible re-induction into the pantheon). Yknow, "learn from a mistake" and be done with it.

Probably make him a more rounded elder god if that was his ultimate prize after all is said and done too.


I'd vote for "b.)", but could accept "a.)" without much fuss if it's done well.

/speculation.

This has been exactly my position since the "taint".

This is exactly what I couldn't be less interested in.
It's an unfair association, but when you start talking about escalation like that, it's just an even bigger character using the Onaga/Blaze roar. It just couldn't be less boring, and less creative.

I'd much rather 'One Being' be an abstract concept that might as well be gravity. A cosmic force whose influence can threaten everything that exists, not by any level of consciousness, but just as. A state that suggests splintering the realms too much causes problems, but merging them too far causes even more.
Drawing on some of the mythology we have you can start to build on that to suggest the fragments of 'the' One Being make up the key six realms, which are the perfect balance of cosmic stability. You splinter the realms too much and instabilities like MKvsDC start happening and the boundaries of your existence become threatened. If you merge the realms too far in the wrong ways, then the cosmic force of karma makes it all the harder to go back, and threatens to completely undo reality.

There are a lot of implied benefits for various characters, but just for fun, it does compliment something mentioned earlier about Shao Kahn once being a nicer guy. It's a little bit less about a [sub]conscious manipulation, and more about the fact that by merging splintered realms he was helping secure the cosmic balance, effectively doing something good -- but when he broached on Edenia, he started heading in the wrong direction.

To that end, it isn't a process Shao Kahn would necessarily be aware of, and you could certainly imply some influence by the One Being, but it's just boring if this is a tangible threat that should really be coming from the same plane so as not to dig yourself a Dragon Ball hole.

No doubt someone's going to have issues with the way this has been phrased, so to summarize, I think it's much more interesting to think of the One Being as something like gravity.
Gravity is an all encompassing force that can hurt you, but is not sentient in any fashion, and does not bare any ill will or motivation.


Speaking of boring... It's all still playing to the same themes we've already seen played out. Not played out particularly well to any satisfying conclusion, but played out, and boring none the less. Killing him as a human might have had some irony fifteen years ago circa MKII, but it's done. That ship has sailed. It would just be hamfisted now.

I just don't think you get any dramatic weight, and certainly not any irony, out of Raiden being human. Dragging it out to have him fighting for the right to be a god again? Conceptual pancreatitis!
It's essentially beginning the same arc again, albeit in a slightly more interactive and droning fashion. It's stepping backward from where we are now, I think.

I think it's important to establish the "evil" turn on Raiden's terms, and to honor something we've never really seen, which is Raiden fighting above the human level. Clarify his plotlines, create some kind of arc that can draw resonance from established plotlines, and conclude the changes we've seen in his attitudes. Give him the enlightenment that's eluded him with each subsequent human interaction, and push him off the board.

Fujin might wind up in a similar position, but the passing of the torch immediately gives that more dramatic weight than having Raiden replay his own plotlines. The student becomes the master, a new generation of Mortal Kombat begins.

How? The circumstances fifteen years ago would not have allowed the opportunity for what I'm talking about, to happen. Sequentially, relatively, logically. It'd a just been a really distasteful, radical change for the character.

So how do you figure the ship as sailed here? And give me an example of when a god-like character looses 2-3 times in a row, is challenged by his//her superiors to getting back what they obviously can not fully appreciate as a god character. Or even just a really powerful character...
Where? Cuz I don't see it....is it in the comics or something?

And also, what themes? In the early games, Raiden was depicted as an "angry, kinda loose cannon god". Well, if there's anything that's been played for this character before...it's that. The change I'm hypothesizing, humbles the last radical change (taint), and prepares him either for death, or a higher appreciation for a position on the pantheon.

The fact that he keeps denouncing the Elder God posistion, and going to clearly interfere in mortal affairs, again clearly infers that he ain't ready to be an elder god yet. So, you grow him into it....usually, and in human behavior, THAT means you have to go through some struggle and strife first.

None of that has ever happened in any of Raidens known plots, or sub-plots. Cuz he's usually mentoring, dropping hints and such.
So I don't see where you're getting a replay from the proposed. Or boring, really.

To speculate again, Raiden himself becomes a new character. And on top of that, I couldn't imagine him wanting to be bothered with "people" right away, but from that kind of story arc?, he could even pick up an apprentice. Legit. Through and through, because his personality wouldn't wouldn't change much. He'd still be the mentor type, just with alot less power and jurisdiction.



Ha! How so? Considering what I just mentioned above. And really, besides mentoring, thrawting evil forces, and then once, becoming even more intolerant, what other story arc has Raiden had that would be repeated here?

I've heard of ascending to, or descending from power and ultimate responsibility, but where are you getting that from anything Raiden's ever been through? His human and god forms?

And also here, how much more dramatic a change could you have in mind, other than what's happening in his story right now. And then, to a proposed concept like mine, that is essentially a consequence to ruthless acts?

--

Now, consider that within this thread, I've stated that if there was another change, or whatever in Raiden's personality, I'd support an evil Raiden. But again, you gotta grow him into the role.

I would LOVE to see Raiden kill off a couple of these stale clans off, and at least Shinnok, maybe Onaga and or Shao Kahn, and probably Shang Tsung and Quan Chi. Cuz they all touched the reason why he's like he is right now.

If that's the kind of drama you'd prefer to see from Raiden, then we agree. I've just got a duality about it that prefers the opposite then.

But, no drama?, and especially no irony?.....You gotta be kidding me man. haha...

Everybody understands that there is a particularly snug relationship between Raiden and the humans of Earth. How much more ironic could we get than if Raiden were to punished, and demoted so that he actually IS one? That's as clear as day.



*Fixed*

See what I'm saying though? Shinnok has actually "fallen", and hasn't ever really been explained in such a way(in any way besides saying that he's evil, actually). Shinnok's actually and evil character right now, and very few of his arcs and such have been explored.

Just seems like you're talking about an exploited Shinnok rather than Raiden. Raiden's almost nowhere near "evil intent", or interested in proving "above" human levels.....though it would be nice to see just how powerful he really is. I admit.

The objective going on in his most current story arc, rather, the question that needs to be addressed before they move him forward in any worth-while, logical direction is: "How are you going to get rid of the threats to Earth". Oh, and; "Who's gonna feel the wrath first?"

Other than that, you'd be out of context. Cuz he hasn't done anything towards that mission yet, really. 'Cept maybe resurrect a corpse and make some deals with the guys his trying to get rid of. We're still "setting the trap" in his story right now.

That has nothing to do with anything else but "Get Rid of the Bad Guys", right now.



Passing the torch happened in MK4, long time ago. But there wasn't much dramatic about it. Especially because Raiden's overzealousness brought him back to Earth in the direct-following game. The question(s) would be: "Where was Fujin during the same event?" and "Is he still less competent as a successor to Raiden, than Raiden himself is competent?"

Cuz I mean, if he doesn't "stand up" when the world is in danger, then what is he really there for? They could eliminate Fujins character, and it wouldn't really make a difference. heh, cuz he's never going to do anything in that sense.
--
Right now, if they wanna build Fujin up, we need to see him "flex" about an issue or two that really matters to him, that would have him react differently than how Raiden might have.

Fujin needs so much work....so much. But ultimately, Fujin desperately needs to step up, and out of Raiden's shadow. Cuz right now he's still pretty much suffering from being much more passive, and a clone of Raiden.

Passive gods are boring. We wanna see just how powerful they really are.

I'm really questioning my sanity for even attempting a reply, but flippantly casting aspertions about your abilities as a writer, or interpreter, without any courtesy, seemed a little unfair.
A short (recurring) answer would be that you just don't seem to be reading, interpreting, or understanding the metatextual influences on what you're doing, and how they relate to the sequential story of MK. I haven't quite been able to guage if your interests are writing, or coding, but on the former, I'd be very critical. These posts don't read like a writer's perspective, at all.


You seem to be too fixated on the details to realise that maneuvering into these positions is what's redundant. These are the steps backward that are essentially setting up for a do-over. We've been in this position and had MKII made Raiden human, and killed him off, you would've had your dramatic irony.


Which is exactly why it would be sophmoric to even consider going back to that. The establishment of 'lessons learned' can be immediately drawn from the historical weight of Raiden's story. We do not need to go back to the start to retread that from a first-person perspective. The story of his education is implied, and there's no reason we can't immediately forward the conclusion.


That's laughable...


If you want to talk about jaded mentors who've lived through an experience of their own fallability, and retreat to impart some wisdom on an apprentice, whilst getting some back, then that's a far more interesting Shujinko plot. Particularly as it doesn't involve regressing the character, and actually builds on what's happened.

[Some of these paragraphs are incoherrent, so I'm skipping a lot. Maybe work on using less words, and more words you're more confident with?]


It would've been ironic if it had happened the first time.
By now, it's just a consequence of a lot of fairly obvious and repeated events. You're right, it's so obvious, it's entirely uninspired and not worth the time.


An exploited Shinnok?...

When I say "evil," it's implying I think it's an inappropriate description.
I'm sure I mentioned more than once that I have no interest in an evil Raiden, even going back to my point about the absurdity of bosses needing to be evil.


Incoherrent set-up aside, obviously this is the foundation of a hero's frivolity, and is a story never to be concluded. So it's importance is negligible...


Fortunately, it was only abbreviated the once, and is still a lingering implication of the destiny of these characters. The only thing this conclusion is waiting for is the MK team to get the balls to force a little progress on the stunted fanbase.


This, almost obviously, is where you might actually have some footing for the role of Raiden as mentor. That relationship with Fujin is already implied, and gives more than enough opportunity to differentiate the character by reflecting Raiden's own attitudes back onto him. If Raiden has become jaded over the course of the game series, then Fujin is the opportunity to filter that positivity back on him, and put the punctuation on a conclusion that sees Raiden becoming excessively pro-active (and a boss), only to learn the error of that through his own teachings.

The student becomes the master; Raiden is pacified; we can move on to a new generation with Fujin getting, effectively, a fresh start as a character with a greater weight, but a very open future.

I suppose the key disagreement we have regarding Fujin is that I think the legwork is fairly minimal. His role has already been forecast, and is really just waiting for a catalyst to make it happen - a role Raiden fits into in various ways.


Just to clarify, I'm really not trying to be rude. Just impatient, and doubtful.
If you wait long enough there's probably four or five guys who dress like me (only yellow) who'll do the bitching for you, though.

It's because I'm not a "writer". Artistically inclined in any way I apply myself? Hell yea. Not to sound over confident either but, trial after trial I've learned to accept it. There's just a point where being modest makes me look like more of an ass if I don't admit it. Mainly though, I'm a speaker//interpreter//translator. Musician, and visual arts follow close behind. Then there's writing. I've always been exceptional in anything physically exhausting too...but that's besides anything. Yep, full blown, untrained conceptualist and visionary. I'm talented. whoop //end.
--

Far as the consequences of the position my proposed concept would maneuver Raiden into, yea, I've considered the ins and outs. Doesn't make the individual story less complex than it is at the moment though. And I think that a progression in Raidens story needs to consider exactly what the situation is right now. Still ties him into Mortal Kombat well very I think.

The only thing that's there to draw "from", in order to progress "to", is one ambition. And it's a quite gargantuan article to consider when we're talking about "Raiden as a Boss".

So? That one, and only ambition is "Get rid of them". Turning that into a boss, or as you propose, "progressing" him into the pantheon, needs to consider that he hasn't been in this specific territory or position before. MK1-current. Under-tone?...Sure Maybe? But according to what's there to reference about Raiden? Nothing suggest where you infer "we've been" with Raiden before.

I mean sure there's some inherent repetitions we could note, but nothing close the context that you're talking about. And look, if there is, I've given you opportunities to show me what you're seeing. So, show me?

But, there's nothing there, and nothing that has been there that suggests "he's ready to retire to the Elder Gods Pantheon".
---

I think we agree on a progression, I just don't agree with forcing the character into retirement prematurely again. That's the repetition I'd be sick of because, nothing is final about it except for the fact that the character is gone. That'd piss me off if they did what you're talking about right now. Doesn't end anything, it makes MKDA possible again for Raiden.

It's like you're saying "Raiden's tainted one second, the next, he's "chillin' amongst the Elder Gods for good". That wouldn't make any sense based on where he's at, or where he's been at all.
--

The point here, is that I'm trying to grasp the base you're drawing from without calling it baseless (cuz that's unnecessary if I'm trying to learn something from you). I figure you must be getting that from somewhere. But right now, I don't even see how your perception of the character is possible, because it's nowhere in any of the games' long-lived content. You have to show me..basically.

Like: "remember when __, and then __....well, ____. "

tah dah.



No, I'm not. Whether he'd effect other characters in the game, and the overall story hasn't been brought up. Now, the details...

The only "loop" in my concept only occurs if Raiden is ultimately successful. Which means, he'd have to win Mortal Kombat, and become the same god he was before the taint. But not even that is a correct loop, because Fujin is in his position. (~ this could actually tie right in to the propoed idea you have at the end of your post~)
And besides that, he'd stay where ever he won the honor of being after all is said and done.

That, or I've considered that he could die during Mortal Kombat. The End.
--

Beyond that, we haven't been anywhere near this type of concept before. Ever, in any of the games.

Especially concerning repetition. Because, the only repetition Raiden's had, is that he's went against the Elder Gods wishes twice.



We haven't been there, so how would we be "re-"? And as a matter of fact, I need to correct myself, Raiden's only been an elder god once that we know about. From MK4/G - MKDA.

Explain this "historic weight".

Far as his education, you mean this:

MKDA: "I can no longer stand idly by and watch this evil consume the world. I have relinquished my status of Elder God to return to Earth and lead you all to battle against our old adversaries.
We must act now.
We must stop this Deadly Alliance!"

and this:

MKA Bio: "No longer will I entrust the safety of Earthrealm to the free will of mankind. The time has come to take matters into my own hands"

?? Educational indication is there but:

#1.) The MKDA quote doesn't apply. Because it's knowledge gained, and action taken for the mortals (again, just like Raiden does everytime. give them the information, and assist.)

#2.) The MKA Bio quote doesn't apply to what you're saying. Because it's after he's tainted. Not during any earlier game.

--

So the question is still, "where" are we going back to, IF Raiden were to loose his rites as a god?



How so?

No more this power....none of that jurisdiction, less this skill...ect ect.

A new mentality, fresh start, and new motive is exactly a brand new character. Only thing relative is the name, and the hat. lol And the name could be swapped for an alias to accommodate the circumstance. So what are you talking about?



You know Shujinkos dead right? Raiden killed him. He's not even a reference point any longer. And I couldn't see "foolish" Shujinko teaching anybody anyway. Kung Lao...
--
Anyway, an utterly humbled Raiden produces a future hero. Any utterly humbled, previously high powered character for that matter, produces the next best thing. IF they teach while they're belittled & or powerless.

Happens all the time in vast variations, makes perfect sense for this character to do that.



No they're not, the you're just coming around. I'm still reacting to you btw, even though you're the better writer.



Describe.."the first time".

It does not exist, as much as I know "Raiden stuff".



Yes, to make more use of, to employ to a greatest advantage...ect

An exploited Shinnok.

It seems like what you're talking about fits the actually evil Shinnok, to an exploited degree, rather than Raiden. Because it doesn't fit Raiden. In your own use of the word, you have an evil perception of Raiden, more befitting Shinnok as a character.



BS.

Especially when I'm giving you options possible for the start, options possible for the body, and options possible for the end. All starting from, exactly where Raidens story is right now.

The only thing I could be marked for, is the fact that I'm staying away from Zombie Liu Kangs role in all this. Well, that and I'm not speaking specifically about all the other characters that could be effected by each option that I'm giving you. But why go there?

--

And, there wasn't a single thing about my apparent "set up" that was incoherent. I am essentially responding to you with an entire story arc, beginning to end, that starts from a point, and can go many different ways.



Why in the world would you say that, when you want a dramatic ending for Raiden? Shouldn't that feel like a missed opportunity on two counts to you?

1. Didn't end anything, 2. wasn't dramatic enough?



Well hell, I don't insist on the mentor thing being there. But since it's there, and considering the concept I brought up, mind as well use the skill on something that gives the character some depth.

Now, the whole "reflection of ones self" thing, now that's boring. Really all it might do, is solidify Fujin as a respectable God character, and the new lead Protector of Earth. But even then, Fujin seems so soft by that description.

I'll put it like this, that's not lame, it's thoughtful. If it were to go down like that, I'd place it at the end of the events of the concept I keep bringing up. Then, I could make sense of why Raiden would be leaving for good, and Fujin finally taking Raiden's spot for good.

See what I mean? That's another ending to a realized-again "Light Raiden".



Don't worry about it like that cuz neither am I. The topic is interesting. Nice and controversial.

===============

Gotta get some work done, later

Half of these responses don't seem to have anything to do with what I actually said... The other half, seems to have interpretive issues of a different kind. Among other things, copping out of the last game is hackery not especially befitting of a creative super machine. Armageddon was ambiguous, more than it was problematic, and any competent writer working in a sequential medium has no good reason to skip out on what's an incredibly open ended scenario.

I think we'll have to "agree" to disagree.
I'm really not patient enough to try to explain the same thing over and over.

The best I can do in closing:
MK: Raiden takes human form to participate on Shang Tsung's invitation.
MKII: Raiden takes human form to participate in Shao Kahn's false tournament on invitation.
U/MK3/T: Raiden becomes human when Shao Kahn begins merging the realms.
MKDA: Raiden dowgrades from elder god to rally the Earth forces.

Fifteen years later, it would just be lazy and insipid to keep going backward. There's no dramatic resonance anymore. Move forward.

"How many times he's been inbetween human and god form" doesn't mean it couldn't be a tool used to progress the character. All those instances you site are just Raiden exercising one of his rites as a god in order to protect earth. There's nothing wrong with him doing that as long as it makes sense why he's doing it. It should make perfect sense for that to keep happening time and time again considering that's within the parameters of his "job" and his abilities.

- Your mentions are also just circumstantial. But they prove the point I've been making all along. In that, the character is not ready for the progress you're talking about. Doesn't even relate properly. You don't tie a character ability in with a characters progress unless that ability is detrimental to the character. In this case, it has nothing to do with progressing the character.

- I'm talking about moving the characters mentality & behavior forward in a way that sets him up to be in a role like a boss, or as an indefinite Elder God, or to even die, indefinitely.

All you're talking about is how many times he's taken a human form to assist in protecting earth.

You're also talking about a scenario that is equivalent to an "ending". Which is fine, but we are nowhere near "the end". Raiden is in the middle of a story arc that still needs to be concluded if he is to do what you & I both want to happen. > > Move Forward.

It wouldn't move him forward by eliminating a rite he has....that's just taking away one of his powers so that he's less accessible in MK.
=======

And finally...



Stout "disagree". There isn't a repetition to note as far as progressing Raiden as a God character. All the mentions you make are based on his jurisdictional choices, and are circumstantial. The fact that he uses the rite to become mortal, doesn't stifle his story.

- What I propose takes the jurisdiction, and power choices from him, and develops the characters behavior and psychology. My proposal, forces him to choose one role through submersing him in the "form" he keeps going back to (Human), and explains why his destiny would // could conclude in MK. Your proposal doesn't, yours just...ends because you don't like that he keeps turning himself into a mortal.

--

Making him a human wouldn't be repetitive, or regressive. Because it develops the character as ultimately, either a God or a Human (hasn't ever been human-"mortal" before anyway). Something we know Raiden is pretty tied to. What you do is, you make him choose one role, by punishing him to the lessor role he keeps playing around with. Like a parent to a child = Elder Gods to Raiden. Pretty basic psychology, I think.

======

So now again, and in the exact same fashion I began.....it does not make ANY sense to "push" Raiden into a role, right now.

He's nowhere near a boss, evil boss, elder god, or death. The role he's playing right now is that of a puppet master, or a cynical manipulator.

I won't deny that those roles have contrasts with a boss type character, but his motive disputes the actuality of that. Thing he's closest to doing right now, is killing off all the bosses in MK. Not repeating any steps or habits.

Not even close.