Oh yeah, I forgot about the dial combos.
Ok, the dial combos are illogical because...
1 = They are inescapable once you run out of breakers.
2 = Long dial combos make short dial combos useless unless they are launchers.
3 = Because of the illogical risk VS reward system in MK. Doing mix-ups is not as effective. The long delays for most attacks makes that problematic.
4 = It just looks fake. Nobody would just stand there and take a combo like that without blocking a few of the hits.
5 = Some can launch = Cheep
6 = They are too restrictive to the player
7 = The illogical RVR system, makes it too easy to land after blocking almost any attack. Block a jab, and land a 10+ hit dial combo / juggle.
So you see, these are the reasons for dial combos being bad. At least in the way they are used in MK.
Dial combos can be good, if designed well.
Can you make a list of why they are not illogical?

Ok, well I'll take a shot at why I don't mind them as much:
1.Granted once someone nails you in one after you use your breakers up, you're screwed.That's the downside, however in competitive play lots will tell you to simply use your breakers WISELY.
2.The short ones do have a purpose I feel, not only with launchers but with quick knockdowns for field position, say you're fighting in a highly competitive match and you need a descent hit to end it.There are some short dial ups in Deception like Ermac's fast B+1, 3 for a two hit knockdown.I feel short ones like this have purposes in good matches like my example.Sometimes the smallest things can make a big difference.
As for the long ones, I would say they have a purpose due to the fact that they do good damage and players like myself for example can make new ones out of dial ups.(not easily though, you have to practice but it's fun)
3.I feel that the 50/50s with dial ups are a problem, however in MK A I think the parry will honestly help that a lot.We will see.
4.They look fake in all fighters man lol, Tekken looks too Jackie chanish at times, SF looks like anime in a game, VF same as tekken, DOA looks way too insane imo.Almost matrix like at times plus you can't grapple someone from half a screen away, MK's looks like a guy is doing martial arts without rest lol, it looks dragged out and all fighters that support juggles of some kind Tekken, VF, MK, SC, DOA etc look fake because there's no way that in a real fight anyone can define gravity when someone is hitting you across the air lol.
It's for fun, as long as there are juggles in fighters which there will always be now, you will never see "realistic" fighting.
Wrestling is not fighting but you have to admit, the moves they have and do are more realistic(similiar to real life) because you don't see guys shooting fireball, juggling off little punches or blocking or doing anything like in Tekken, MK, SC, VF, DAO, SC etc.
You need some fakeness to it man, it's a video game.Too much realism makes a game stale and boring.People don't want boring.
5.Launching is simply apart of the game and fighters in general, there are things that are a LOT more cheesy then lauches such as picking Dairou and doing the TS 10 times, picking Bo and abusing his glitches, or buffering moves like Smokey cloud(which most don't do but still)
6.They are restricted to the player sometimes if the character sucks lol.If they don't then I don't think they're restricted imo.I love making new combos up with the ones I already have, to me that's a fun and exciting challenge.
If I want more, I make up more in a nut shell. I just use what I have.
7.I know what you're talking about with this, it can be a problem but dealt with.I say honestly don't put yourself in these situations but I'm coming from a competitive point of view where in the law of fighting in a tough match, don't make mistakes to get yourself into those situations.
However, I know you're talking about a general point of view.There are ways I get out of them, say I'm facing Scorpion in Deception.He has auto tracking with that freaking hell fire up close especially, poke you to stun then quickly do a hell fire for a free hit that you can do nothing about.That is only with the hell fire though, you see the situation you're talking about say someone is coming at me with jab, jab, jab combo.This is what I do and it works for the most part.When someone is doing jabs one right after another, I poke immediately it hits my opponent, backs them off in the process.Then from that point I can proceed to get better field postion so that I DON'T let my opponent nail me with another situation like that.
I feel that MK's recent problems aren't with the dial up combs, but with 50/50's, infinites, partial's, free hits after throws, free throws and auto recovery.Fix these things and I'll be fine, dial ups have really nothing to do with these problems, they only add to it if your 50/50 is a launcher that can be followed by an immediate dial up.
I feel that the dial ups are fun and made MK a lot more aggressive once they were introduced back when MK 3 came out.That's my view on them.

And who made "The GRID?" Without John Tobias' characters and stories MK would be nothing without choppy, broken gameplay.

^ exactly

So? Your ability to avoid attacks shouldn't be limited by anything period. No matter how "wisely" you use your breakers, once they're gone, they're gone, and you can't escape combo's anymore. That's just fucking stupid. Why not just have strings instead of chains/ "dail a combos" instead? Then you can escape combos all the time, not just three times.

All of those things can be done with strings instead of chains just as well, if not better. Especially creating your own combos.

It's not the launching itself, it's the fact that the launch is guaranteed. With chains, you're basically launching off a jab/other quick hit because once the first hit connects all the rest of the combo is going to connect and your opponent is going to get launched. That might not be such a problem if the combos did minimal damage, but it's a problem because of the potential for combos that launch to do a large amount of damage before the opponent even gets tossed in the air. Imagine having one move that came out at lightning speed, did 30% damage, and was a launcher. That's what we could potentially be seeing in MKA, because that's the exact same effect a chain can have if it ends in a launcher.
Strings would solve this problem because the launch wouldn't be guaranteed, so the opponent might eat most of the combo but avoid the launcher at the end. Strings create more balance introduce actual skill into escaping combos. Anything chains can do, strings can do better.

Again, anything chains can do, strings can do better. Strings can do the exact same thing, plus they lessen character suckage to begin with.

So what you're saying is that you should never put yourself in the situation of having your moves blocked (ie; you should never throw out any moves whatsoever)? That's ridiculous. Your moves will always get blocked when you play fighting games, you can't help it, it's inevitable. You shouldn't potentially have to eat a huge combo just because your opponent blocked your jab. Strings instead of chains would solve this problem instantly. It wouldn't solve the shoddy risk vs reward system, but at least once your jab is blocked and your opponent comes at you with a huge preset combo you'll be able to escape it every time.
If you really want a game that requires skill and encourages creativity, then you need strings. Chains are obsolete, and there is no reasonable justification for having chains instead of strings, unless you're really lazy and just want to escape a combo by pressing a universal "escape combo" button instead of using skill to avoid the attacks in the combo and come out with an advantage.

True, but if you think MK would better with John running things you're out of your fucking mind. Tao Feng is the worst fighting game ever made. and people claim Ed doesn't know what he's doing, look at john's peice of shit.

Tao Feng has never had an established fan base like MK did.So,of course it's easy to pick on it.Besides,very,very,very few people actually know how Tao Feng really plays at its high level play.Just something to think about before posting the obvious.
MKF,dial-a-combos are an extremely lazy way to make a combo system like the above user already explained.Are they necessarily bad?Not really,but strings are better,especially for juggles where you can be creative in contrast to simply dialing a combo once you launch an opponent.
Many areas in MK:DA and MK:D are created in such a simple and lazy way that you have no idea.

How could anybody know how the game actually plays with the fucked up, random ass, rotating, camera and the shitty controls. I remember when that game was announced, I was fucking stoked then the demo came and it was ok but needed work, then the game gets released and its WTF !! THE DEMO IS BETTER THAN THE "FINISHED" PRODUCT.!! Two weeks after I baught the thing I traded it in for Street Fighter III. John Tobias should have his genitals flayed for that piece of shit game.

Nice post, you make some good points.
I’ll try and review some of these.

“I don't mind them as much”

That’s just covering the problem though.
They have to be used wisely no matter what, but they should not be limited.
Why? Because once the first hit of a dial combo connects, you are screwed. There needs to be a way out for the sake of balance / fairness.

Some of the short dial combos in MK are very useful like that Ermac spacer, but not all.
Like Ermac’s 222, or his 221 in his first style. 3 hit’s, doesn’t push back enough, and does less damage than his b+1, 3.
Why do those, when you can do his full style branch.
L+1, 1, 2, L
Or the b+1, 3
I was messing around with Ermac for a while, and I noticed that his b1+3 is probably his best combo. That 2 hit combo does like 23% damage, and his style branch 6 hit combo does 24% damage ????
I did a 10 hit juggle with him and only got like 22% damage, again ????
There’s seems to be no logic to this damage system.
I guess the # of hit’s is not the only problem with dial combos, it’s also the damage they inflict.
Why do a 10 hit semi complex juggle / custom combo, when I can do a 2 hit dial combo that does more damage?

Yeah, it should help. People will be afraid to attack you because of the parry, but if you attack low avoiding the parry, the opponent can predict that. Block and counter.
Problem is that you will still fall for the throws, because the parry can’t counter that. I don’t think...

You are absolutely right.
They look fake, but that’s OK, because games don’t always need to go by the laws of reality.
I don’t want to see 100% realistic fighting.
But I do want a good balance, between looks, and effectiveness.
Games can do the impossible, as long as it works properly / fairly.
Juggles are the reward for landing a launcher, because they have a high risk on a miss, or on block.
Grappling someone from a half screen away is OK, if there is a way out of it.
In MK dial combos are not a logical reward in that sense. It’s just block and attack against any move, or just do it on a clean hit.
Dial combos do look off to me, but If you take out how they look, then you are still left with their being unbalanced.

For launchers to work properly with a risk VS reward system, they need to be high or med risk with a high or med reward.
In MKD, the risk is high and the reward is high most of the time, because of the exaggerated recovery time for almost every attack. which is OK “for launchers”.
The problem is that there is no block stun or major push back for blocked attacks in MK.
This makes the Launchers, and dial combo launchers over powered, because you can punish a weak jab with a huge juggle.
Juggles are part of many games, but they need to work logically.

Dial combos are restrictive, because most of the time, they are just High and Med attacks.
They don’t give you enough options, to trick the opponent in to blocking the wrong way.
All of Ermac’s dial combos can be blocked standing. That’s a restriction on the player.
Instead of using combos to trick the opponent, you have to use single strikes.
They also don’t recover fast enough when cancelled, to do mix ups smoothly.
They don’t have enough variations either, to let you do even more custom combinations.
They basically don’t give the player enough freedom to do what’s needed in some situations.
And I’m talking about standing combos, not juggles.

MK has many problems, and dial combos are part of it. For the several reasons already listed.

Gee.....Let's all fight.....

If you are talking about this last page, were not fighting. We are having a legitimate discussion.
If you aren't, then never mind.