Even if you flesh Sektor and Cyrax out more...they still sort of exist in a vaccuum away from Sub-Zero as characters, because he's never at clan HQ until after they've already become programmable machines. There's no time for their human selves to interact with him and establish whether he likes or dislikes them. He's not there. He's in Outworld avenging his brother. And once they're programmable machines, they aren't supposed to have personalities, and Sub-Zero has no reason to hate them just because they've been programmed to chase him. The one he should really hate is the programmer, the Lin Kuei Grandmaster. So Sektor and Cyrax, during MK3, are just plot devices, not characters. And that's why the only interesting one was Smoke. He was the only one of the three, before or after automation, with either a will of his own or a personal relationship to Sub-Zero, and even as they flesh out what Sektor and Cyrax were like as humans in this game, that will STILL be the case.

Sure, they both malfunction and get their personalities back in later games, but like I said before about people not liking Smoke's Deception story, bringing up what happens in future games has nothing to do with THIS game, THIS game is the one where quality is important right here and now. "It's okay if it sucks now because it'll be better in the sequel" or "The sequel sucked so they should change what happens now" are both poor arguments.

Let me say that I want no part of this argument, but I've read this whole thread and it's getting kind of old. Razor has some valid points, as do the Pro-Smoke crew. Razor is correct that Sektor and Cyrax were not fleshed out very well until post MK3, which the next game does not cover. The only thing that made the cyborg storyline interesting was Cyborg Smoke breaking free. Sektor and Cyrax's former plots in MK3 were based on trying to kill Sub-zero and Smoke breaking free of the clan and saving Sub-zero. That's all he's saying. He enjoy's the story that developed between Sub-zero and Smoke, and Smoke's struggle to regain his humanity. He doesn't want that to change.

On the otherside, it is a new game and as much as I hate the 'Raiden went back so things can be different now' garbage that people throw around like cheap candy, the team can try to take the game and story what ever direction they'd like. If they choose to keep him human then hopefully they do it in a way that doesn't destroy the whole Lin Kuei cyborg story line.

In short, it's out of our hands and screaming at each other is just wrecking the thread. Also you should know that the non-Smoke fans really don't care about any of this. :p

NoobSaibot5, do not confuse "I'm not listening to the story ideas people posted because I'm biased" with "The story ideas people posted are legitimately bad."

When someone posts a story idea that's well written, makes sense, and has the same or better emotional impact as Smoke's MK3 story, I WILL acknowledge it.

But everyone here who has tried so far has written extremely bad fanfic. That's not MY fault, it's not me being biased if someone else really is a bad writer and their ideas sound like mary sue stories from fanfiction.net.

I see what your saying. I do. I even can agree with you that Cyborg-Smokes involvement is what gave Sektor and Cyraxs' stories somewhat of a purpose. But the game is being retold from the beginning. The MK Team can take any direction they want with it. What they'll do, we don't know, or have any control over it. And what ever direction they do decide to take, is going to change everything post MK3.

Sektor and Cyrax may not even malfunction and get they're personalities back in later games, or they may get personalities right away. Who knows. What happens is up in the air, and what has happend can't and shouldn't even be regarded as canon anymore.

Click.

I really don't even know what to say to you anymore. You're the only person saying that these ideas suck and you haven't addressed a damn thing I've said on the matter, so I'm going to disappear from this thread and let it run its course. I truly believe now that you are just biased and are being willfully ignorant of anyone who offers an alternative perspective.

"The Story ideas people posted are legitimately bad" -is- your opinion, but that is irrelevant when fan-fics don't matter. Fans aren't writing the new MK Game, the MK team is.
You saying 'when someone posts a well written story that has the same or better emotional impact as Smokes MK3 story' being the only way you'll acknowledge anyone elses idea's (which are moot) regarding Smoke's story is bias, period. What happens to Smoke is up to the MK team, emotionally impacting story or not.

Writing is like a science. Not a perfect science, mind you, but there are in fact rules and standards and tropes and all kinds of things that can actually be quantified in fact rather than opinion.
That's why classes on writing and literature exist in the first place. If anyone could write well, it wouldn't need to be taught and studied, now would it?

But that's the thing Razor, somebody could post the best, most intriguing storyline imaginable for Human Smoke, and I know for a fact that you being you would still hate it because you believe that Sektor and Cyrax are bland without Smoke being automated. You would do as you have repeatedly done already and either completely ignore it, or look down your nose as it and insult the author's ideas.

Face it, you are biased. Smoke has to be automated at some point in this storyline or else Cyrax, Sektor and Sub-Zero's involvement in the MK3 period goes to shit in your eyes, and there's no room for debate otherwise. The last 3 pages have at least had members give it a shot and be open minded towards Smoke's outcome, and all you've done is just dismiss it rather than even offer your own idea on what storyline could befall Human Smoke.

I get the impression from your posts that you genuinely believe your of higher intelligence and literary skill than some of the other members here, so I propose to you this challenge: Think of one, just one, storyline that could befall Human Smoke without him being converted into a Cyborg, and post it here for us to see. Considering you've had quite the snotty attitude towards other people's suggestions I'm dying to see what you can come up with.

Can he die at the end?

A character that nothing bad happens to has no emotional resonance.

So it's either he's turned against his will, he's murdered, or a character he cares about is the one who gets turned instead of him. And the only character Smoke cares about is Sub-Zero, and we all know Cyborg Sub-Zero is just plain horrible.

I guess I could try and think of a story where something good happens to him instead, like a romance plot...like he meets Jade while they're both sneaking around the Living Forest while he and Subby are in Outworld and shit blooms or whatever...but people hate romance in MK.

Smoke's existence inherently backs anyone who tries to write something emotional and worthwhile about him into a corner. He has only one friend no enemies, and no goals or missions other than "assassinate Shang Tsung", which is just plain never going to happen, and "get my humanity back" which you're challenging me to actively avoid. So where the fuck is there to go?

This is why I act so certain that there's no way to do him staying human and make it interesting. Because if you look at everything about Smoke and the directions he can be taken in, most of them are uninteresting, unpleasant, or impossible.

A lot of the stories other people suggest that I called bad fanfic were all about him turning evil for no good reason. Why would Smoke do that? What's the motivation? They never give one that makes adequate sense. You have to stay true to the character, and the character is a good guy. That's one of the few concretely known things about him. And once he is evil, what are you gonna do with him? Make him another enemy of Sub-Zero? He has a million already, and the point of the cyborg story was how Sub-Zero doesn't WANT to be his enemy and actively acts to get him his mind back so they'll be friends like they're supposed to. Make him another soldier of Kahn's? Like that guy doesn't already have 7 ninjas?
"He goes off on his own as a neutral character" isn't actually a story. It's the PROLOGUE of a story, but nobody ever comes up with a good next chapter, because a character with no ties to anything has nowhere to go. Infinite potential is NOT a good thing, it means zero direction.

Fuck The Smoke Argument. Take it To PM.

I've been trying to count the character who has the most votes so far (in terms of being number 1) but here's the thing some of the posts are a little tricky so I counted them as best I could and needless to say I'm not sure I did a good job on it so whoever doubts the accuracy of this I gladly welcome that person to do it themself.

1st Place: Kenshi (Not a Big Surprise)
2nd Place: Rain (VERY close between those two)
3rd Place: Oddly Enough Tanya
4th Place/ 5th Place: Cyborg Smoke and A New Character Tied
Last Place: Shinnok

To sum this up for the people who don't even want to read the long post that means absolutely nothing like the rest of his... It reads

"I WILL NOT DO WHAT YOU CHALLENGED ME TO DO. I SAID I WILL TRY BUT THEN TRIED GETTING OUT OF IT WITH MORE NONSENSE"

True, but assuming that these fan-fictions have any such coherency or legitmacy as stories is still -moot-. It's what the MK Team is doing, and what they're doing with Smokes story, we don't know. You wanting Smokes story equal or greater in quality to his MK3 story is what you want, and may not be what everyone else wants, because not everyone else may have liked Smokes MK3 story.

Ehhh, not entirely true. I refer back to Sektor, who is made an interesting character (Just ask Casselman) by virtue of his desire become a machine out of duty to his own clan, an important detail absent from Cyrax. A connection to another plot member helps, but isn't a complete requisite. If that's not enough, Stryker appeals to the fans he has by being the everyman trying to make sense of the chaotic scenario taking place around him. Neither does he have any connection to another cast member in particular.

The Lin Kuei cybernetic conversion is a worthy enough plotline as it resulted in Sub-Zero's decision to leave it. Smoke's part in it contributed indeed, but the event adds to Sub-Zero's character development with or without him converted.

(Again I'll refer to the future, but if anything, Sektor is the more necessary character to the overall plot as we know it. It's he who eventually murders the Grandmaster, and from whose hands future control of the clan is wrested).

razor you should at least try to see these points people have. you say that nothing should change in the game but ya know what? it's going to change, but some stuff will stay the same, if one story in one part of the game matters that much to you then don't get the game, the majority of the smoke fans here want to see him as a human. you say people don't like it but almost everyone here disagrees with you. please just try and accept it

Only if you stick to what you know though Razor, and all we do know about Human Smoke is three things:

1) He's the best friend of the Younger Sub-Zero

2) He's one of the highest ranked assassin's in the Lin Kuei

3) His purpose in Outworld was to assist Sub-Zero in killing Shang Tsung.

Aside from that there is absolutely nothing else that is known about Smoke. You cannot shoot down other member's attempts at fleshing his story out when you yourself are incapable of doing so.

His human form is a complete blank slate which works in his favour as he can be taken in any direction possible. For all we know there could have been a friendly rivalry with Sub-Zero, where Smoke being arrogant of his high rank in the Lin Kuei prides himself in being the more ruthless warrior. He could easily be portrayed as a man who becomes the victim of his own arrogance after becoming overconfident with his own skills and cast out of the Lin Kuei, or he could be the portrayed as the scheming underdog who plans to conquer the Lin Kuei for himself. I'm sure there's more to you than the friends you have outside of this forum, just as I'm sure there's more to Smoke than his friendship Sub-Zero.

His personality has never been formed, so there for it can be created. He could be ruthless, passive, arrogant, mysterious, or even comedic relief. Ermac had no personality up until Deception, and when the team made the effort on him the fans lapped it up. Don't be so dismissive of Human Smoke's storyline capablities, I too hugely value the story and the characters that make it and I can tell you I'm quite confident and relaxed with what direction the team could take him.

But--with all due respect--it was his only story. I can understand people wanting Reptile to go back to his MK2-MK3 story in lieu of the henchman limbo he's been stuck in since MK4 and on. But Smoke doesn't really have anything else to compare to. I believe Razor is understandably cautious to not think the best of this stuff. Otherwise, I agree with everything else you've said.

OT:
1.Kenshi
2.Rain
3.Tanya
4.Robot Smoke
5.New

Incidentally, I agree with this - or at the least, this discussion should be brought over to the recent Human Smoke thread. This one here's gotten way off topic.

If there are any Human Smoke stories in this thread that equate to more than, "Human Smoke escapes, becomes the (completely unnecessary) Kung Lao of Sub-Zero's story arc, d'awwww..." please let me know.

Until then...no.

Cyrax's storyline started to suck(gameplay and storyline) when he joined the the Outworld Invesgation Agency in Deadly Alliance. I wanted him to go rogue, and have his own goals. Instead he joined an already crowded rag tag team aka OIA.

Btw I've given up caring about the storyline with this game, since this game aims to void the last 19(?) years of Mortal Kombat in many ways. Old storylines are brought back that have been closed for years. Old characters have personalities that they had later in the series . Mileena a "Man-Eater", in the classic era?! Mileena didn't use sex till her Mortal Kombat Deception days. O well who cares right. I hope this game doesn't ruin John Tobais's kick ass storytelling legacy of Mortal Kombat 1- Mortal Kombat 4.

Depending on how this game ends is going to either be a reason to see classic era stages "one last time" since the MK team has been using nostalgia (many characters and stages) MK1, MK2, MKT, for the past 4 Mortal Kombat games.

As far as the topic goes, I am somewhat dissapointed at the selection. Overall I would choose Shinnok. After all he was the puppet master of Quan Chi and his connection to the older Sub-Zero.

Errr I hate reboots ,including this game's reboot. When can we move foward in the story? At least this is the first gameplay focused MK game since Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance, which has showed what the MK team can really do when it comes to gameplay instead of adding tons of pointless modes that add nothing to what Mortal Kombat is about, which is the fighting gameplay, not other modes of play.

I can't believe people are even comparing Sektor and Cyrax's automation to Smoke's. The first two were volunteers while the latter WAS A FUCKING RAPE VICTIM! Can people seriously not see why that has more meaning?

Dramatic value comes from character relationships. Cyrax and Sektor aren't sentient; they can't even fucking think much less have relationships with other characters! Before we go further, let's look at the components of Smoke's MK3 storyline:

1) Automated not only against his will, but right after his failed escape effort.

2) Was left behind by his ally, who now has to live with the guilt abandoning his friend to an artificial damnation.

3) Has to FIGHT his friend. I'll repeat that: he has to FUCKING FIGHT his friend. Not only does Sub-Zero have to carry the guilt of allowing his buddy become a monstrosity, but now he has to violently resist him in order to preserve his own life.

4) Regains his memory, and in beautiful irony, is able to fight along side the person he was suppose to kill.

Those tragic and ironic elements are not possible with Cyrax and Sektor alone. Razor is right: the best writer in the world couldn't give human Smoke a better story than Cyber-Smoke; human Smoke simply has less dramatic premises at his disposal. Specially, he's got two. The first being his friendship with Sub-Zero, and the second being his evasion of the Lin Kuei. In other words, if Smoke stays human, he becomes the Kung Lao equivalent of the Sub-Zero storyline. You could add more premises, but that would just fuck up MK3's story structure.

And I don't want to hear anyone say, "but this is a retelling!" That argument is a broken wine sac and everyone knows it. In order to give human Smoke a better story, you'd have to change Smoke's relationship to MK3's conflict in such a drastic way that in undermines the game's original essence. No reasonable person in the writing room would make that call unless they just hated the original MK3.

Granted, Shadaloo has a point: Cyrax may not have been a volunteer. Still, without the bond with Sub-Zero, and dramatic web we had in MK3 is still not possible. We're never told what Sub-Zero's relationship was to Cyrax, so it's a giant wild card that I wouldn't want to gamble on.

And for the record, no one likes Cyrax anymore because he spent all of Deadly Alliance chasing an orb... for a vampire.

Get Back to me when you have fact and not opinion

I'm very much on the Cyber Smoke side of the debate,but out of curiosity,let me try my hand at this. I was playing around with this possible plot direction in another Smoke-related ragefest when I was trying to think of ways to actually have Quan Chi fight somebody in the MK1-MK3 timeframe,so I'll just copypaste this shit right here.



I do realize I haven't actually set up a definite character direction for him,but I got him doing stuff behind the scenes which might shed the light on the previously unknown parts of the story and,more importantly,I set up potential character interactions,the main one being Quan Chi. Since Quan Chi is the master mindfucker of the series,only good things can come of this.

WAIT

MORE INSPIRATION!

Maybe he'll be the first one to discover Quan Chi's and Shinnok's plans and becomes the Ninja Who Cried Wolf when he gets the news back to the clan,which may or may not affect the Grandmaster's plans.

Hell,Smoke's report can actually be the whole reason behind the cyberization program,what with the Grandmaster starting to prepare for Shinnok's invasion. Imagine the horror and guilt he would feel when he'd start seeing his fellow clansmen converted into soulless automatons as a result of the news he delivered. BAM - potential character development.

I feel like we might be onto something here...

I love Cyrax. Sure, his story wasn't as good in MK:DA, but I thought his overall arc was great. What other character in the game parallels to his arc? Let me explain it how I see it:

1) Cyrax doesn't volunteer to automate, but his loyalty to his clan won't allow him any other option. If they want him automated, he's automated regardless of personal preference. Whereas Sektor is all for it, Smoke is completely against it, Cyrax is neutral in that his blind loyalty gives him no place for opinion.

2) He ends up having to hunt down Sub-Zero, who's relationship between the two we don't quite know at this moment, but maybe in the new game it will flesh it out more.

3) He gets lost and stranded in the desert, and with no programming, he shuts down until further instructions. A helpless soul with no orders, with such loyalty he is basically used by his clan, yet forgotten.

4) He is found by the Special Forces and is given a chance to gain his humanity back, and to be able to once again be in control of his own actions. To make his own choices, something he hasn't been able to do, due to his extreme loyalty. Meanwhile, his former clan mate Sektor, is now programmed to eliminate Cyrax since he no longer serves their purposes.

5) Cyrax finally gets his humanity back over time, and chooses to do GOOD, by helping the Special Forces since they helped him. It turns out Cyrax wasn't an evil person, he just pledged loyalty to people who ended up being evil, stripping him of his humanity just to serve their cause. He struggled, and eventually got his humanity back and chose to serve the right side.

It may not be one of the most interesting story arcs, but it's at least decent. It's also unique in that no other character shares the same story arc. That's how I see it anyways...no one has to agree. That's just part of the reason why I love his character and why he's my personal favorite.

In all reality, I think the existence of all 3 cyborgs, and their individual unique back story and arc, make each other better. One being pure evil, one being blindly loyal but turns good in the end, and one who was taken against his will, who never really overcomes the ordeal.

I used a ton of facts. I mentioned his only two dramatic premises in MK3, along with... you know what, this is not worth it. Trying to explain literary theory to someone who won't read is pretty much the same thing as arguing with a wooden board with someone's face drawn on it. You can't make someone understand if they have already decided they don't want to understand.

Yes you only used facts from the CURRENT canon mortal kombat, yet you fail to see that this is a retelling and SHIT GETS CHANGED