Actually, it's a retelling of MK1-T, derp. Stuff may or may not change. And if you had actually read my post, as you so often fail to do with others here, you would know that I dislike the cyborg Smoke because he's friggin' bland. When I first saw Smoke way back in MK2, I was like "cool, another ninja guy, and I like the fact that he's entirely mysterious. I want to play as this guy." Fast forward to MKD, and knowing everything I know now about Smoke, I now say "wait, THAT'S his story? smh -__-' come on NRS." Also, regaining his humanity =/= quality storytelling. They already tried that with Cyrax, and it clearly didn't fly, judging by how small his fan base remains. They went to all the trouble writing the why and how of Smoke becoming a cyborg, so if they keep that in the new game, he should remain a full cyborg.



I don't think having one of the cyborgs be against their will is the be all, end all for making them interesting. How interesting you find Sektor and Cyrax should not hinge on whether or not Smoke is their running buddy.



Because they're so damn interesting with Smoke. derp.



No, there doesn't. Sektor and Cyrax can hunt down Sub-Zero just fine without Smoke. How about a different angle where Smoke is presumed dead by Sub-Zero after barely escaping the Lin Kuei, and then in a later game, Smoke (still human here) tracks down Sub-Zero and they combine forces to eliminate their robotic pursuers? That's a perfectly valid path to take, but I'm sure that it's below you so it'll get no response.



lolwut



If I've brought a knife, then you've brought a piece of styrofoam. Open your mind man. I know you think you're smarter and better than everyone else, but this just in: you're not. That high horse that you think you're on ain't so high.

Refusing to acknowledge the obvious makes you look like a fool.

I...I like good guy Cyrax.

Sad to say that you're in the minority, my friend. I was certainly open to the idea of Cyrax becoming one of the good guys, but I feel as far as storyline is concerned, they botched it terribly.

Yeah, but I really thought they could've had a whole separate, earthrealm-centric, Tekunin and Special Forces storyline. Maybe Cyrax and Sektor could've had some sort of rivalry or something. I just always thought he had a lot of potential after DA.

1) Tanya
2) Rain
3) Shinnok
4) Cyborg Smoke
5) Kenshi
6) New Character

My picks. I also tweeted this to him(albeit late)

From the moment Sektor appeared and it was stated outright he volunteered for automation, I was intrigued. It's a guy who wants to be a robot, who does it out of loyalty. That's not interesting?

Cyrax didn't necessarily volunteer - that's not stated anywhere. Since his MKG ending specified that he wanted out of his shell, well, there's your angle of a soul trying to escape. I'd wager he was selected, but didn't run.

It would have been really nice had they actually followed through on Smoke's transformation and its effect on Sub-Zero, but they never did. I'll say it again - For all the relevance Smoke continued to have on Sub-Zero's plot, they might as well have killed him. And I don't care if it is a remake - I'd sooner see him given something with more promise for his future than go through that shit again. That might be because I'm actually okay with the notion of the story being told differently this time.

People who like Cyrax in the Special Forces are in the minority? I'm sorry, but where are you seeing people say that? Because I've never heard the opinion voiced that he was better as a badguy. People don't often voice opinions of Cyrax at all post MK3 and 4 because he lost his net and became boring to play as, but there's no majority movement out there complaining about the Special Forces Cyrax storyline, that's just making shit up. Most of the posts I see about Cyrax are people being surprised he turned out to be a black guy, or complaining about his weird Sleeveless-Robocop alt costume. They don't say word-one about his story.

And m0s3pH, if I don't respond to a point someone makes, it doesn't mean I didn't read it, it means I think it's completely without merit and I can't find a polite way to say so, so rather than getting Skull Points all the time, I take the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" route.

What's with the message in the last page I posted, RazorsEdge701?

Yes, to answer your question, I am fine with Human Smoke as a playable character as long as the plotpoint of him being captured and automated stays in the storyline.

I thought that was rather obvious from what I already said...

Sorry i think we all got lost from you trying to throw us off by saying scorpion colored gray by a pre-k student with crayons was the exact same thing as human smoke

Yeah, I too am wondering how Cyrax and Sektor will become obsolete without Robo-Smoke and how it is a universal rule that one has to become a cyborg against his will or else the whole cybernization loses its meaning...

The cybernization of the Lin Kuei warriors (last I checked) was because the Lin Kuei was fuckin around with some new way of improving their warriors' skills and efficiency and so they decided to turn em into robots. Killing Sub-Zero would be one of the first objectives for a few of these cybernized robots (Cyrax, Sektor, Smoke). Now tell me, how does Smoke not turning into a robot this time around defeat the purpose of cybernization? Do you think the Lin Kuei will go; "ahh fuck it, without Smoke, it is hopeless and useless" If this was the case, why go through the effort of cybernizing others in the first place? Sure Smoke was Sub-Zero's best friend bla bla bla, but is this seriously key to killing him? I don't think so.

I might have missed something and if I did, feel free to correct me.

What you missed is that Sektor and Cyrax, at least in MK3, are boring, empty characters because Sub-Zero has no personal relationship with either one, they're just bland henchman figures.

Smoke makes the cyborgs a worthy plotline by adding an emotional connection to it.

No emotional connection = boring storytelling. Characters should give a damn about each other, love or hate, they should feel something. This is really not the sort of thing a person should have to tell other people out loud, it should be common sense.

So are you telling me Jarek should have the hots for bo rai cho? Thats emotion alright. And we all know you would not want that emotion shown.

And sub-zero does have a connection with them, they were all in the same clan so how about you ask for an expansion of their relationships within the clan instead of whining about this?

And you claim to be mature
Do you think before pressing that "post message" button?

Really? You posted THAT and you're asking me if I think ahead?

I hate that I'm wasting my time trying to explain things to you. I gotta get a new god damned hobby.

Alright. It indeed was expectable but I wanted a clear answer to fully end this debate of cyborg vs human because I'm hungry and tired right now. From this on, let the Human Smoke anticipation live if it's to live now that Human Smoke gets to be in the shaft and I leave room for Cyborg Smoke in the future Mortal Kombat. Sounds like a sensible deal? Good. (hopefully)I myself am open to different storylines but anything goes as long as it's NetherRealm Studios of making the new deep plot.

May I point you this one thing though, now that you have criticized me (conciseness of my messages). This can be hard to take openly as constructive criticism but I hope you're able to do this. As m0s3pH already brought it up, I have noticed this too before; you believe you are over the top (better than anybody else) which derives your arrogance - you try to evaluate people "aloud" by after couple messages. But if you generalized me as an non-educated teenager, I've got to pick up that I have probably more degrees behind than you do, just recently passing one education. My respect towards people don't come by age or education though whilst they may allude somebody being wise and/or intelligent. If you haven't noticed this, maybe you can see the characteristic from you by your username of choice. "I am Razor's Edge, the sharpest kid in the block."

(Seriously, take it constructive, not offensive, because I'm out for tonight!)

Take up the hobby of learning how to make valid points when arguing something.

You really bring up the same 3 things over and over again and when you get in a spot where you realize you are wrong you don't reply to the post or you completely ignore it and continue ranting as if you run the place.

@ Razor

Except youre forgetting that Sub-Zero's killing is not the only reasons for Cyrax and Sektor's existance. Cyrax, for example, was captured and reprogrammed by Sub-Zero to fight alongside earth's warriors and his storyline became even deeper later on. Sektor started working for himself and disregarded the Lin Kuei grandmasters and even if these events happened later on during the plot, when going back in time and CHANGING things, they have tons of options to give these robots a decent storyline.

As for Sub-Zero, lets face it; he is not only targeted by the Lin Kuei. He has enough other friends and foes with whom he has an emotional bond whether hatred or not. I don't see what is wrong with two brainless robots with no emotional ties whatsoever chasing Sub-Zero with the intention of killing him. They are fuckin robots, they should not have feelings in the first place (until later on) and neither should Sub-Zero have feelings towards them (Cyrax and Sektor).

NinjasRock, you just responded to me explaining a fundamental rule of storytelling, that characters who are friends or foes with one another should have emotional reactions to and connections with one another or else their relationships are boring and meaningless, by making a non-sequitur joke about Jarek and Bo' Rai Cho in love.

It doesn't matter what you think of how I argue, you keep sabotaging yourself. Why would I ever take your opinion seriously when you continuously undermine yourself by saying idiotic things as poor attempts at comedy relief?

What I meant was that it's not like there was a big spike in the number of fans Cyrax had after he went to the Special Forces. No one really gave a damn... still. Remember, there are three opinions to every occurrence - good, bad, indifferent. The majority about him is indifferent, as you just explained. Come on man, I know you're smarter than that.

I'd almost rather you speak out against every idiotic post you see here instead of picking your battles simply because you're afraid of a few skulls, but to each his own. You're satisfied with what you're doing, and so am I.

But isn't that argument kind of moot, considering every character is expected to get a more fleshed out story through the games retelling?

I'm not gonna jump in the middle of the Smoke argument, but I do want to state my opinion. Cyrax has been my favorite character since MK4: Gold. I've always kinda liked his storyline. He may not be as interesting as some others in the MK series, but that doesn't make his overall story arc interesting. His sheer lack of loyalty to his clan, led to him being automated. In which he lost his soul and only did what he was programmed to do. Then he was stranded in the desert after he failed to receive a new mission. Eventually he was found by the Special Forces, and he attempted to get his humanity back. Slowly each game he has progressed from being an evil follower who lets his loyalty blind him into doing whatever, regardless of what he feels about it...into a free soul who makes his own choices. At least I find it interesting. Just wanted to say there is 1 at least. lol

I actually missed this earlier statement. As far as I know, it's never been established that Sub-Zero doesn't know who Cyrax and Sektor are on any level. Nor do they say that Smoke knows them, either. All of what you said, Razor, is certainly plausible here (though unlikely, as one would think that Sub-Zero would at least know who all of his fellow Lin Kuei are even though he wasn't the Grandmaster at this point), but until we get a confirmation I'm open to all theories about this Lin Kuei love rhombus.

I'm at the point of these storytelling debates where the more nonsense I see, the less I'm going to want to post anything other than "wait and see, folks."

Its called an example of how you think any emotion out there could connect any two fucking characters. Your acting as if i could say in real life hmm that m0s3pH guy looked at me the wrong way so now i feel a bit odd and could write an entire storyline about us. Fuck no.

And really I am saying idiotic things? That's why people have the same views of you right? That is why people agree with me and not you on this smoke topic right? Having people feel the same way as me is sabotaging myself? How so? Do explain O' great one. Since nothing on these forums can be talked about without your divine input, enlighten us all.

Seeing how you probably won't respond to this because it slightly hurts your feelings and you tend to ignore everything that doesn't go your way, get back to me when you are better than anyone in any way.

The one thing I've observed from your posts Razor is that you claim you want an intelligent, mature poster to make a solid arguement for Human Smoke's inclusion, yet blatantly refuse any sort of arguement or point presented to you on the crystal clear grounds that you're biased. Why ask for debate if your not willing to listen to the opposite side's arguement? It just comes across as if you want things your way, and your way only, and anybody who does not agree with you is stupid and incapable of mature debate. The comic irony of it all is that of all the people who have posted on this topic, it's yourself who is coming across as immature and childish during this debate by dismissing and insulting other member's opinions. One thing I admire about the likes of Queve and Luca is that when they engage in debate they at least take into consideration what the other members of the forum are saying rather than stubbornly dismiss an opinion just because they don't agree with it.

You're clearly not willing to consider other people's arguements because in your mind you believe that the Cyborgs are not interesting without Smoke's automation.

Sektor was one of my favourite characters in MK3, for the simple reason that he was a soulless, relentless hunter with a menacing look and cool abilities. I also liked him due to the fact that his design was original and he posed as a new threat to Sub-Zero aside from Scorpion, one who came from Sub-Zero's very own clan.

Smoke never came into the equation with my affections towards Sektor. Had Smoke remained human in the original timeline, it would never have in the slightest have had any sort of effect on my love of the other two Cyborgs. They are what they are, and with or without Smoke, they're badass. Sektor and Cyrax will always be more interesting to me and countless other fans than Cybernetic Smoke, and they didn't need to rely on him to acchieve that.

It is your opinion and belief however that without Smoke's automation the Cyborgs lack character. Well, that's your view...you're welcome to have that opinion, but it is just your opinion. Many fans out there would disagree with it purely because they like Sektor and Cyrax regardless of whether Smoke was automated or not. Had he not been in MK3, I'm sure Sektor and Cyrax would still have gained a whole legion of fans without his presence.

You seem to be fixated on the idea that this story needs to be an exact remake of the old games, when it's been stated from the word go from Ed Boon himself that the story will be told differently and things will be changed by Raiden. If you're not open for change within the series, that's quite frankly your loss. By the looks of things the whole past as we know it in MK will alter and change drastically, and I for one welcome it. At least if I don't like it, I can still slap on MK2 or MK3 and enjoy the stories and characters from the good old days. It won't be the end of the world in my eyes if things change.

Personally I don't understand why you'd continue to express interest in a game and a franchise that causes you to become so hysterical and hostile. If Smoke is human in this game, he's human, and there's nothing you or I can do about it. I personally would prefer Human Smoke because I would like to see where his story would have gone had he escaped automation, and I have every confidence the story they think up for him will fit him perfectly.

But, had we gotten Cyborg Smoke instead of Human Smoke, I'd still be happy to have him. At least he's included, look on the bright side rather than whine about how it's not to your personal liking. Fans wanted the Human Smoke for years, and by the looks of things Cyborg Smoke is going to be DLC. Whatever they do with the character, it's out of our control. You might as well just be happy he's included.

Yea, I'm going to have to curb you on this one. Enough with the personal posts. Take it to PM so that I don't have to see the back and forth and that we can get back to... well... this thread has been off-topic for a while now anyway, not that it hasn't spawned discussion.