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LucaTurilli
08/19/2010 04:51 AM (UTC)
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I just finished reading this conversation.









I now have aids.
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Mick-Lucifer
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08/19/2010 04:52 AM (UTC)
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~Crow~ Wrote:
It isn't random at all, because this is a fictional universe and the creators make that world whatever they want to make it.

Deriving a whole lot of material from the conventional wisdom of other sources in the pastiche some of us know, and all of us love. Which, again, isn't random at all. As it so very rarely is in any well conceived creative project (and some not-so).
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Cyborg_Hero
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Veni Vincere
08/19/2010 04:58 AM (UTC)
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Cyborg_Hero Wrote:
/\ Robotics has been around for hundreds of years too. Well, at least the concept. And I didn't claim anything was random in the first place. Look at my first post again. I was saying that it's an unbelievable universe, which is why a clan of Chinese assassins can shoot ice and automate people.

I was replying to the poster that claimed it was random. The convo should make a bit more sense now.
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Garlador
08/19/2010 05:07 AM (UTC)
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Back on topic people....

.... So, how 'bout that Clock Tower and Jade's Desert? All we need now is the burning inferno of the hellish Netherrealm and Goro's dungeon for me to be a happier camper.

And how much longer do you think they'll wait before showing us Baraka (you KNOW he's in the game), Sonya, Jax, and Kano?

And I'm still hoping Quan Chi shows up.
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LucaTurilli
08/19/2010 05:08 AM (UTC)
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They should have characters trapped in the desert, as Cyrax used to be. However, the character should change from match to match, and shouldn't be one of the 2-4 selected.
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scorpionpwns
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no one will ever be immortal

08/19/2010 05:17 AM (UTC)
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I am really surprised they havent shown liu kang yet....its kinda odd
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Manneen
08/19/2010 05:33 AM (UTC)
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scorpionpwns Wrote:
I am really surprised they havent shown liu kang yet....its kinda odd


I second that. I was honestly expecting the rest of the characters from MK1 to be revealed first. And as of now, we still have yet to see anything on Liu Kang, Sonya, or Kano. We've seen Raiden in the trailer, but other than that, nothing from him.
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RazorsEdge701
08/19/2010 05:35 AM (UTC)
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scorpionpwns Wrote:
I am really surprised they havent shown liu kang yet....its kinda odd


It's not odd at all, really.

The E3 reveals (except for Scorpion and Sub, obviously because they're the series mascots) were all characters who were not in MK vs DCU, to show off some newness.

These two reveals seem designed to answer questions like "Will Cyrax not be a robot this time, since Ed said someone different would be automated" and "does Kitana being chained up in the background mean she won't be playable?"

I can't even imagine who'll be next, though. Probably more obvious ones like Sonya, Shang, Raiden even though we've technically already seen him...I wouldn't be surprised if Liu wasn't far off. I'd prefer to see more MK3 characters, though, like Kabal or Sindel, personally. Just because that seems the least represented game so far.
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Darkhound74
08/19/2010 05:42 AM (UTC)
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Hooky-Fooky Wrote:
scorpionpwns Wrote:
I am really surprised they havent shown liu kang yet....its kinda odd


I second that. I was honestly expecting the rest of the characters from MK1 to be revealed first. And as of now, we still have yet to see anything on Liu Kang, Sonya, or Kano. We've seen Raiden in the trailer, but other than that, nothing from him.


Yeah I agree with you guys even though I'm a huge cyrax fan, I did not expect to see him and Katana. I would have figured they would have shown Lui Kang and I certainly thought we would see Sonya before Katana.

Or like many others have said it is possible we will see many other characters besides the obvious ones we all know will be in the game.
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SEGAmaniac7
08/19/2010 05:44 AM (UTC)
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Darkhound74 Wrote:
Hooky-Fooky Wrote:
scorpionpwns Wrote:
I am really surprised they havent shown liu kang yet....its kinda odd


I second that. I was honestly expecting the rest of the characters from MK1 to be revealed first. And as of now, we still have yet to see anything on Liu Kang, Sonya, or Kano. We've seen Raiden in the trailer, but other than that, nothing from him.


Yeah I agree with you guys even though I'm a huge cyrax fan, I did not expect to see him and Katana. I would have figured they would have shown Lui Kang and I certainly thought we would see Sonya before Katana.

Or like many others have said it is possible we will see many other characters besides the obvious ones we all know will be in the game.


Its kitana, don't worry though, you don't even know how much I used to spell scorpion like scorpian.
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Darkhound74
08/19/2010 06:12 AM (UTC)
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SEGAmaniac7 Wrote:
Darkhound74 Wrote:
Hooky-Fooky Wrote:
scorpionpwns Wrote:
I am really surprised they havent shown liu kang yet....its kinda odd


I second that. I was honestly expecting the rest of the characters from MK1 to be revealed first. And as of now, we still have yet to see anything on Liu Kang, Sonya, or Kano. We've seen Raiden in the trailer, but other than that, nothing from him.


Yeah I agree with you guys even though I'm a huge cyrax fan, I did not expect to see him and Katana. I would have figured they would have shown Lui Kang and I certainly thought we would see Sonya before Katana.

Or like many others have said it is possible we will see many other characters besides the obvious ones we all know will be in the game.


Its kitana, don't worry though, you don't even know how much I used to spell scorpion like scorpian.


Hahaha I feel like a dumbass I forgot my damn iPhone has a strict spell check, it's like the grammar Nazi. Hahaha
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scorpionpwns
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08/19/2010 06:17 AM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
scorpionpwns Wrote:
I am really surprised they havent shown liu kang yet....its kinda odd


It's not odd at all, really.

The E3 reveals (except for Scorpion and Sub, obviously because they're the series mascots) were all characters who were not in MK vs DCU, to show off some newness.

These two reveals seem designed to answer questions like "Will Cyrax not be a robot this time, since Ed said someone different would be automated" and "does Kitana being chained up in the background mean she won't be playable?"

I can't even imagine who'll be next, though. Probably more obvious ones like Sonya, Shang, Raiden even though we've technically already seen him...I wouldn't be surprised if Liu wasn't far off. I'd prefer to see more MK3 characters, though, like Kabal or Sindel, personally. Just because that seems the least represented game so far.



I kinda want to see shang as an old man this time around. I've always noticed as an old man he has purple robes even in mksm he went into the soul chamber with purple robes and came out with yellow ones it was really odd
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Vasculio
08/19/2010 06:21 AM (UTC)
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First off! Thank you Ed and the Netherealm team for another awsome update.

I want plea for Smoke, should he be Cyborg again. That he doesn't have that stupid rocket back and those tubs connecting to his mouth i want him to be sleak and cool like Cyrax and Sektor.

Always a Mortal Kombat fan, even if i don't always have my cake.
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FlamingTP
08/19/2010 06:56 AM (UTC)
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robs727 Wrote:
FlamingTP Wrote:
I think WB has got graphics covered given these character models are mainly placeholders, ... I'm more worried about the gameplay aspects at this point than the graphics.


That seems an odd thing to say. It's still the original MK team just under a new name, Netherrealm Studios, which is now owned by WB.

I don't think WB is offering more than paying their wages and possibly some more staffers for anything they might require.
perhaps, but that doesn't explain the drastic improvement graphically from DA-A to now. surely they could have done better with their last engine, frost's model was ok but most of the others had odd modeling problems. Why is it suddenly fine now but the animations are still choppy and slow for a fighting game?
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Tyrant-Cenobite
08/19/2010 06:58 AM (UTC)
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FlamingTP Wrote:
robs727 Wrote:
FlamingTP Wrote:
I think WB has got graphics covered given these character models are mainly placeholders, ... I'm more worried about the gameplay aspects at this point than the graphics.


That seems an odd thing to say. It's still the original MK team just under a new name, Netherrealm Studios, which is now owned by WB.

I don't think WB is offering more than paying their wages and possibly some more staffers for anything they might require.
perhaps, but that doesn't explain the drastic improvement graphically from DA-A to now. surely they could have done better with their last engine, frost's model was ok but most of the others had odd modeling problems. Why is it suddenly fine now but the animations are still choppy and slow for a fighting game?


It's because the actual game engine itself is the same engine used for MK vs DC, But modified.

In the press release however they claimed to be using a different graphics engine.
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SubMan799
08/19/2010 07:01 AM (UTC)
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btw, with Kitana confirmed that means characters appearing in the stages just might appear in the game. Kenshi you still have hope!
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Manneen
08/19/2010 07:15 AM (UTC)
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SubMan799 Wrote:
btw, with Kitana confirmed that means characters appearing in the stages just might appear in the game. Kenshi you still have hope!


Didn't Taven and Daegon appear in the background too? I Really hope they aren't in it. I'm personally just thinking they were placeholders for something else. Hopefully.
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TheAdder
08/19/2010 07:19 AM (UTC)
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Ninja_Mime Wrote:
ServantofSindel Wrote:
I think Cyrax looks bad ass....Everyone is Complaining..but At least he isnt a carbon Copy of Sektor...


My problem is that he looks nothing like Cyrax.

The helmet should have at least stayed the same. He's far too sleek and slim looking, which really should be Sektor's traits. Cyrax ought to be the bulky one.


I would have to disagree.

Just look at their techniques. Cyrax has always been the gadget guy. The net, the saw blade, and yes, a couple of bombs. He's prepared for an array of situations.

Sektor has always been the "If I can't kill it with fire, I'll kill it with explosions" guy.

Cyrax is a precision weapon, Sektor is a tank. Their physiques in this game now appropriately reflect that.
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mkreptile8860
08/19/2010 07:24 AM (UTC)
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Omg Loving every character so far cyrax looks freaking crazy kitana looks sexy as hell !! loving the mk team right now keep up the good work!! Ps seeing alot of people dissing the character designes people stop criticizing and just love this game cause he team is doin an amazing job! i have no complaints about any thing this is the mk game ive been dreaming 4!!grin
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Manneen
08/19/2010 07:25 AM (UTC)
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I'm also in the camp of people that says Sektor should be the bulkier one. I know people have already said my argument, that being that Sektor, with missles and flamethrowers, it's like he's built for war.
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TheAdder
08/19/2010 07:34 AM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
The design sensibility of this game is so strange...
It's all very 'do MK but be different' and doesn't seem to be driven by any kind of cohesive vision, or motivated by the characters.

Getting in close on Cyrax it doesn't look too bad, but the svelt quality and it's slight removal from human anatomy is what Sektor always should've been, I think. Cyrax was the one that went and joined up with the Americans (bulky machines), and Sektor went to the Tekunin, embraced his cybernetic condition, and should've really been getting into more diverse mecha territories and into advanced tech.

Obviously those ideas don't really matter when we're going back to 1993, let alone when we're separating characters with gimmicks (as has always been done). Just not sure what to make of it.


Hate to double post, but I'd like to address this.

Why would Sektor, the one who wants to be more machine, be the sleeker one? To appeal to some human sense of aesthetics? No. Sektor would be the one to add more and more machinery to himself. He would accrue bulk, but it wouldn't matter, because his tech would more than compensate. And he wouldn't CARE how he looked, that's something a human would do.

Cyrax, the one that wants to be human again, would be the one more likely to fall back on his Lin Kuei training instead of relying solely on his mechanical parts, he would strip down to the bare minimum, most efficient tech. And he would be the one more likely to care about his appearance, because somewhere deep down he's still a human.

But, more importantly, as I said above, it comes down to their skill set. A tank is going to need bulk because a tank hits its opposition and presses through,

The gadgeteer on the other hand would need to capitalize on its speed both in order to be in the right place to use the right kind of gadget, and to avoid taking hits to its less armored form.
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RazorsEdge701
08/19/2010 07:43 AM (UTC)
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TheAdder Wrote:
Why would Sektor, the one who wants to be more machine, be the sleeker one?


Because getting rid of internal organs would make a body skinnier and because he stayed a "ninja" while Cyrax joined the army. Thin and smooth is better for stealth and acrobatics.
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TheAdder
08/19/2010 07:47 AM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
TheAdder Wrote:
Why would Sektor, the one who wants to be more machine, be the sleeker one?


Because getting rid of internal organs would make a body skinnier and because he stayed a "ninja" while Cyrax joined the army. Thin and smooth is better for stealth and acrobatics.


But he'd be stacking on tons of technology, which would make a body much bigger than one that is a normal human with minimal technological additions.

And as previously pointed out, their techniques would disagree with your statement regarding who is more a "ninja."
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Mick-Lucifer
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08/19/2010 07:49 AM (UTC)
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TheAdder Wrote:
Cyrax, the one that wants to be human again, would be the one more likely to fall back on his Lin Kuei training instead of relying solely on his mechanical parts, he would strip down to the bare minimum, most efficient tech. And he would be the one more likely to care about his appearance, because somewhere deep down he's still a human.

You make some really interesting points about Cyrax.

I think, like some of the other assumptions that haven't been met by the MK team moving forward, it's a level of logic that's deeper than what we're getting. I think, based on what we've had, Cyrax has unfortunately never really been characterized as a sleek or deeply skilled character. We kinda know him as a more clumsy character who got stuck in sand, had wacky adventures with Nitara, and other unimpressive feats. He never really lived up to any Lin Kuei assassin ideals.

EDIT: I'm not sure sawblades or wacky digi-nets imply any more precision than homing missiles and wrist-mounted flame throwers. If I were going to read character into in-game gimmicks, I'd probably think the practicality was in Sektor's favour.

From the perspective of accepting that the characters will have slightly jarring logics, ones that derive from existing points and create an individual character around them juxtaposing the others, it makes sense to keep him the bulky robo warrior. He joined the Americans. He's been at the mercy of American tech. It's a vague commentary and keeps him as we've known.

Sektor might have surrendered to total mechanization, but he's done so out of the very human pursuit of power. References to a sleeker aesthetic -- or more accurately to the point, something that doesn't regard human anatomy with a CG model that looks like a person bits stuck to him -- is arguably more in keeping with the application of technology in Japan, where the character went.

I mentioned mecha and think going in any manner of Japanese referenced directions would be great, but I don't think, in the context of a two-axis martial arts fighter, we're likely to see any kind of Gundam or Evangelion robot. So it stands to reason he might maintain a sleeker, inhuman form, rather than something clumsy or Western, like a tank. Like most machines designed by humans, Sektor seems likely to invent himself with emotional inflections, and the Japanese direction implies a sense of refinement, I think.

Technology isn't getting bigger. It's getting smaller.
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TheAdder
08/19/2010 08:10 AM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
TheAdder Wrote:
Cyrax, the one that wants to be human again, would be the one more likely to fall back on his Lin Kuei training instead of relying solely on his mechanical parts, he would strip down to the bare minimum, most efficient tech. And he would be the one more likely to care about his appearance, because somewhere deep down he's still a human.

You make some really interesting points about Cyrax.

I think, like some of the other assumptions that haven't been met by the MK team moving forward, it's a level of logic that's deeper than what we're getting. I think, based on what we've had, Cyrax has unfortunately never really been characterized as a sleek or deeply skilled character. We kinda know him as a more clumsy character who got stuck in sand, had wacky adventures with Nitara, and other unimpressive feats. He never really lived up to any Lin Kuei assassin ideals.

EDIT: I'm not sure sawblades or wacky digi-nets imply any more precision than homing missiles and wrist-mounted flame throwers. If I were going to read character into in-game gimmicks, I'd probably think the practicality was in Sektor's favour.

From the perspective of accepting that the characters will have slightly jarring logics, ones that derive from existing points and create an individual character around them juxtaposing the others, it makes sense to keep him the bulky robo warrior. He joined the Americans. He's been at the mercy of American tech. It's a vague commentary and keeps him as we've known.

Sektor might have surrendered to total mechanization, but he's done so out of the very human pursuit of power. References to a sleeker aesthetic -- or more accurately to the point, something that doesn't regard human anatomy with a CG model that looks like a person bits stuck to him -- is arguably more in keeping with the application of technology in Japan, where the character went.

I mentioned mecha and think going in any manner of Japanese referenced directions would be great, but I don't think, in the context of a two-axis martial arts fighter, we're likely to see any kind of Gundam or Evangelion robot. So it stands to reason he might maintain a sleeker, inhuman form, rather than something clumsy or Western, like a tank. Like most machines designed by humans, Sektor seems likely to invent himself with emotional inflections, and the Japanese direction implies a sense of refinement, I think.

Technology isn't getting bigger. It's getting smaller.


While I like the way you do your analysis the thing is that if you compare the tech the characters use, Sektor really is making use of the things that would require more bulk than what Cyrax uses. And to become sleek he would have to rebuild from the ground up. And, as you said, Sektor is fery much in pursuit of power, so not only would I doubt he'd be doing that, I'm sure he's be looking to add more power to himself. Sure, he'd probably get the smallest most powerful versions of what he needs, considering his location, but they'd still likely be much larger than a medium sized version of Cyrax's equipment.

As for Cyrax, while he's certainly had his misadventures, the character's usually been portrayed, at least subtly, as a pretty slick customer. His fighting styles are Ninjitsu and Sambo, both of which are quite smooth when seen in action (Sektor had these in Tournament Edition, but in that he was pretty much a Cyrax Expy, since it was just a portable DA, when he made the consoles he got Kenpo). And compare his old win pose to Sektor's. He did the slick looking salute, whereas Sektor raised his hands above his head in victory. It seems to me that while he was to have misfortune befall him quite a bit, he was always meant to at least move pretty smoothly.

And here's the real rub. The Cyrax and Sektor we get in this game aren't those ones anyways. These two are fresh off the production line, meaning that they aren't going to be built based on their experiences or personalities anyways, they're going to be built to capitalize on their weaponry. And as I said, Cyrax needs a sleek build, and Sektor should be built like a brick shit house.

EDIT 1:To your edit, I'm thinking swiss army knife vs a machete. If they've both got heavy armor, the swiss army knife loses as the machete will get through it before the SA does. If they've both got light armor the Machete loses, as the SA gets in and out multiple times before the Machete guy can hit. If the SA guy has light armor, and the Machete guy has heavy armor it's anyone's game. That's Cyrax and Sektor. EDIT 2: Also, I've always seen them as having been built for different purposes. One for search and destroy, one for B&E and capture. Now ask yourself, who seems to have the more appropriate equipment for search and destroy missions, and who is better equipped for breaking into a place and capturing the target alive? Then ask which build you think is better for which task. (As a side note, I always saw Smoke as being designed for stealth missions, but could never figure out what the Sub Zero cyborg they wanted would have been for)
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