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T-rex
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03/30/2011 05:11 PM (UTC)
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Ugaking Wrote:

And you shouldn't deserve anything which is worth money. Things got their worth, because their owner had to offer something and they want something of equal or higher value in return.

Once again,just to drill it in - they are charging you for something that used to be universally free across the industry.

FREE

I don't play online all that much,aside from an occasional fighting game here and there,so maybe you can tell me - aside from dedicated,subscription-based MMORPG servers,what other games charge you extra for the privilege of accessing their multiplayer?

Gears of War? Modern Warfare? RDR? AC2: Brotherhood? Halo? Do any of these game make you pay extra for "server support" or whatever bullshit?

The only reason the corporations are starting to charge you for something that was free is because they've realized that can get away with it. And you're letting them. You are part of the problem.

Don't you realize that you're being had?

Ugaking Wrote:
I'm sick and tired of people who [...] want to unjustly reduce their personal cost, at the cost of others.

You mean like WB?

Fenix Wrote:

The fact is publishers do not see a dime on used purchases.

Do you see recording labels trying to get into the pocket of used record stores?

Do you see publishing houses getting butthurt over the existence of used book stores and libraries?

The reason they don't see any of the money on used game sales is because they don't fucking deserve it.

I'll stress this again - EVERY SINGLE USED COPY IN EXISTENCE was bought by someone once,so the publisher and the developer received their money for it fair and square.

Fenix Wrote:

get the fuck out of america

Fenix Wrote:
Its capitalism and its here to stay, commie.

Fenix Wrote:
Welcome to america.

ha ha ha,oh wow.

And then you wonder why the rest of the world doesn't like you guys.

Fenix Wrote:
The only people who are getting actually dicked here are people who play online from multiple accounts on one system.

And also the deplorable commie fucks who have the audacity to try to save money by buying used.

Seriously,fuck those guys. If they can't afford to plunk 60$ on a game on the release date,they should just be deported back to Mexico. Or China. Otherwise,the terrorists win.

Where do they breed people like you?
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Fenix
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03/30/2011 05:20 PM (UTC)
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bookstores, recordstores, and furniture stores don't provide any service AFTER the product is purchased which is why they aren't charging you 10 dollars just to play the game used. You can still play it offline to your hearts content. They ARE however charging you 10 dollars to play the game online, a service THEY provide, formally at no cost, now at cost.

Why can't you read?
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Wanderer
03/30/2011 05:22 PM (UTC)
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T-rex Wrote:
Gears of War? Modern Warfare? RDR? AC2: Brotherhood? Halo? Do any of these game make you pay extra for "server support" or whatever bullshit?

The only reason the corporations are starting to charge you for something that was free is because they've realized that can get away with it. And you're letting them. You are part of the problem.

Don't you realize that you're being had?


Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you say you had an Xbox and a Live membership? In which case, why are you willing to pay for something that other consoles get for free?

Also, publishing houses and recording labels have complained about that sort of shit since forever. There was a huge stink back in the day over recordable media like cassette tape and VHS just because of that.
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Remonster
03/30/2011 05:23 PM (UTC)
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T-Rex, I agree with alot of what you're saying, but Im just curious, are you going to get the game? I mean, its a lot of bullshit, and the only way to fight it is to voice your opinion on it, and not buy the game. Which is my problem, because I really fucking want this game. So, will you end up getting it?
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Fenix
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http://www.fenixware.net/fab/index.asp

03/30/2011 05:24 PM (UTC)
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Give it up wanderer, T-Rex lives on a magical island where people don't like to pay money. He thinks we should get rid of raises, new jobs, imports, exports and everything else that might cost extra money because thats not how it used to be.
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KlTANA
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03/30/2011 05:27 PM (UTC)
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Fenix Wrote:
KlTANA Wrote:
I have an EA online pass for several games, And play online on both mine and my roommates accounts. 3 different accounts, One hard drive. It'll be all good.


Oh word? If you recover your gamertag somewhere else does it work or is it one system only?


Gotta be on the same drive. :)
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lettman
03/30/2011 05:28 PM (UTC)
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@trex
you have loss all respect from mefurious
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Fenix
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03/30/2011 05:31 PM (UTC)
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@kitana, that's weird, i have a friend whose a maddenite and he was able to play it at my house once after recovering his tag.

In any event, I guess this resolves any multiple user woes. So yes, the only people who are dicked by this are people who buy the game new and then take it somewhere else (why?) in order to play online. ie: nobody.
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TonyTheTiger
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TonyTheTiger - Forum Director

Mortal Kombat Online - The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
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Nintendo is comprised of three Japanese words. Nin, Ten, Dou, and when combined it means we kicked the holy shit outta Atari.

03/30/2011 05:33 PM (UTC)
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I don't get where this whole "paying extra" thing is coming from. Even if you do buy the game used, you (in theory) wouldn't be paying anything extra. The cost of the used copy would go down approximately $10 to account for the online fee. Price reflects value. And since value goes down so does price. Therefore you'll be paying the same amount. The only difference is where some of the money is going.

The people who lose aren't the ones who buy used. The losers are the people who sell used because they have to sell at diminished value to keep competitive in the market since they'll be expected to eat the $10 future cost to the end user. At least that's how it would end up working out in theory. You don't sell a used car missing its headlights for the same price you would sell a used car with them intact. The seller is expected to eat that diminished value.

So if a used game with unlimited online goes for $30 at a given point, should that game charge $10 for online access, the used price would now be $20. I don't think used prices would be able to stay the same in the face of a $10 online fee unless the market is just that screwy.
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Espio872
03/30/2011 05:34 PM (UTC)
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Edit: double post.
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Espio872
03/30/2011 05:37 PM (UTC)
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Edit:Forget it, not even getting into this debate. @T-rex I agree with pretty much everything you said, good posts man.

fierypyre Wrote:
If everybody ignored everything that didn't affect them personally then our world would be a narrow and cold one. Fans are most likely gonna buy it new regardless, doesn't mean they have to love the business model that WB are advocating.


Quoted for truth.
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Fenix
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03/30/2011 05:44 PM (UTC)
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if your opinion is that companies should provide online play for free, thats one thing, and you're certainly entitled to that stance, but if you think providing online play is a free and costless endeavour, you're wrong.

This is just publishers deciding their not hosting leaderboards, lobbies, replays, and all that other stuff for second hand players for free anymore.
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T-rex
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03/30/2011 05:50 PM (UTC)
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Jackkkkk Wrote:

Personally as far as the gaming industry goes I think the game shop is dead and so is the cd format. It should be replaced with online stores and eventually a set up like steam. Eliminate the CD completely and distribute everything digitally. Steam offers such great value as it is, imagine if there were several competitors like this pushing each other for the best value.

Oh god no.

Are you mad?

If the physical data carriers are eliminated,everyone is fucked. Corporations could make you pay $60 for the privilege of installing a game. You wouldn't even actually own it,because the game itself would be stored on the company servers. And then charge you $5 just for the privilege of accessing it and another $1 for every hour you spend playing it,and there won't be a single thing you can do about it.

Fenix Wrote:
formally at no cost

Fenix Wrote:
now at cost.

OXYGEN IN YOUR AIR

FORMERLY AT NO COST

NOW AT A COST

TRY TO KEEP UP,CONSUMER MOTHERFUCKERS

Wanderer Wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you say you had an Xbox and a Live membership? In which case, why are you willing to pay for something that other consoles get for free?

Because all I have as of now is a 360.

Wanderer Wrote:

Also, publishing houses and recording labels have complained about that sort of shit since forever. There was a huge stink back in the day over recordable media like cassette tape and VHS just because of that.

Of course they did.

People buying a VHS of a movie and watching it however many times they want? Those communist motherfuckers. They should be charged every time they press the play button on their remote!

Remonster Wrote:
T-Rex, I agree with alot of what you're saying, but Im just curious, are you going to get the game? I mean, its a lot of bullshit, and the only way to fight it is to voice your opinion on it, and not buy the game. Which is my problem, because I really fucking want this game. So, will you end up getting it?

I'm a hopeless MKfag and I'm already too invested into this game,so there's no going back for me on this;I gotta see it through to the end.

And hell,all things aside,I'm sure the actual fighting engine will be solid for once.

Fenix Wrote:
Give it up wanderer, T-Rex lives on a magical island where people don't like to pay money. He thinks we should get rid of raises, new jobs, imports, exports and everything else that might cost extra money because thats not how it used to be.

Christ,you're butthurt. If you're that eager to bend over backwards for your unalienable right to get ripped off,who am I to stop you?

lettman Wrote:
@trex
you have loss all respect from mefurious

Oh no...

What... What will I do now..? ;_;




Who are you again?

TonyTheTiger Wrote:
I don't get where this whole "paying extra" thing is coming from. Even if you do buy the game used, you (in theory) wouldn't be paying anything extra. The cost of the used copy would go down approximately $10 to account for the online fee. Price reflects value. And since value goes down so does price. Therefore you'll be paying the same amount. The only difference is where some of the money is going.

What do you mean?

If I'm understanding you correctly,you're saying that normally:

NEW - 60$
USED - 50$

But because there is a need to account for the online fee on used copies,the price will accommodate it:

NEW - 60$
USED - 40$

Is that what you're saying?

Because there is no way Gamestop would be this nice. They'd still charge you 50$ for it,without giving a shit about you or the fact that you still have to buy a 10$ just to have a complete game.

NOT OUR PROBLEM LOL

TonyTheTiger Wrote:

The people who lose aren't the ones who buy used. The losers are the people who sell used because they have to sell at diminished value to keep competitive in the market since they'll be expected to eat the $10 future cost to the end user.

People who trade games to Gamestop are always the one getting the most ripped off,that's nothing new.
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Fenix
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03/30/2011 05:55 PM (UTC)
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This just in. Playing Mortal Kombat online; Now as valuable and relevant as air.

Up next on the T-Rex sour hour: Whats more culturally significant, Religion or DLC? The answers may surprise you.
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T-rex
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03/30/2011 05:57 PM (UTC)
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Okay,that was actually funny.
Fenix Wrote:

Up next on the T-Rex sour hour: Whats more culturally significant, Religion or DLC? The answers may surprise you.

FILM AT ELEVEN
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Trini_Bwoi
03/30/2011 06:00 PM (UTC)
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T-rex Wrote:
Jackkkkk Wrote:

Personally as far as the gaming industry goes I think the game shop is dead and so is the cd format. It should be replaced with online stores and eventually a set up like steam. Eliminate the CD completely and distribute everything digitally. Steam offers such great value as it is, imagine if there were several competitors like this pushing each other for the best value.

Oh god no.

Are you mad?

If the physical data carriers are eliminated,everyone is fucked. Corporations could make you pay $60 for the privilege of installing a game. You wouldn't even actually own it,because the game itself would be stored on the company servers. And then charge you $5 just for the privilege of accessing it and another $1 for every hour you spend playing it,and there won't be a single thing you can do about it.

Fenix Wrote:
formally at no cost

Fenix Wrote:
now at cost.

OXYGEN IN YOUR AIR

FORMERLY AT NO COST

NOW AT A COST

TRY TO KEEP UP,CONSUMER MOTHERFUCKERS

Wanderer Wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you say you had an Xbox and a Live membership? In which case, why are you willing to pay for something that other consoles get for free?

Because all I have as of now is a 360.

Wanderer Wrote:

Also, publishing houses and recording labels have complained about that sort of shit since forever. There was a huge stink back in the day over recordable media like cassette tape and VHS just because of that.

Of course they did.

People buying a VHS of a movie and watching it however many times they want? Those communist motherfuckers. They should be charged every time they press the play button on their remote!

Remonster Wrote:
T-Rex, I agree with alot of what you're saying, but Im just curious, are you going to get the game? I mean, its a lot of bullshit, and the only way to fight it is to voice your opinion on it, and not buy the game. Which is my problem, because I really fucking want this game. So, will you end up getting it?

I'm a hopeless MKfag and I'm already too invested into this game,so there's no going back for me on this;I gotta see it through to the end.

And hell,all things aside,I'm sure the actual fighting engine will be solid for once.

Fenix Wrote:
Give it up wanderer, T-Rex lives on a magical island where people don't like to pay money. He thinks we should get rid of raises, new jobs, imports, exports and everything else that might cost extra money because thats not how it used to be.

Christ,you're butthurt. If you're that eager to bend over backwards for your unalienable right to get ripped off,who am I to stop you?

lettman Wrote:
@trex
you have loss all respect from mefurious

Oh no...

What... What will I do now..? ;_;




Who are you again?

TonyTheTiger Wrote:
I don't get where this whole "paying extra" thing is coming from. Even if you do buy the game used, you (in theory) wouldn't be paying anything extra. The cost of the used copy would go down approximately $10 to account for the online fee. Price reflects value. And since value goes down so does price. Therefore you'll be paying the same amount. The only difference is where some of the money is going.

What do you mean?

If I'm understanding you correctly,you're saying that normally:

NEW - 60$
USED - 50$

But because there is a need to account for the online fee on used copies,the price will accommodate it:

NEW - 60$
USED - 40$

Is that what you're saying?

Because there is no way Gamestop would be this nice. They'd still charge you 50$ for it,without giving a shit about you or the fact that you still have to buy a 10$ just to have a complete game.

NOT OUR PROBLEM LOL

TonyTheTiger Wrote:

The people who lose aren't the ones who buy used. The losers are the people who sell used because they have to sell at diminished value to keep competitive in the market since they'll be expected to eat the $10 future cost to the end user.

People who trade games to Gamestop are always the one getting the most ripped off,that's nothing new.


I dunno...used Dead Space 2 is like $9 cheaper than used MvC3 iirc and they came out around the same time...Dead Space 2 has the pass.
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TonyTheTiger
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TonyTheTiger - Forum Director

Mortal Kombat Online - The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
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Nintendo is comprised of three Japanese words. Nin, Ten, Dou, and when combined it means we kicked the holy shit outta Atari.

03/30/2011 06:05 PM (UTC)
0
T-rex Wrote:
TonyTheTiger Wrote:
I don't get where this whole "paying extra" thing is coming from. Even if you do buy the game used, you (in theory) wouldn't be paying anything extra. The cost of the used copy would go down approximately $10 to account for the online fee. Price reflects value. And since value goes down so does price. Therefore you'll be paying the same amount. The only difference is where some of the money is going.

What do you mean?

If I'm understanding you correctly,you're saying that normally:

NEW - 60$
USED - 50$

But because there is a need to account for the online fee on used copies,the price will accommodate it:

NEW - 60$
USED - 40$

Is that what you're saying?

Because there is no way Gamestop would be this nice. They'd still charge you 50$ for it,without giving a shit about you or the fact that you still have to buy a 10$ just to have a complete game.

NOT OUR PROBLEM LOL


It's not about being "nice." GameStop is still a market participant. Here's an example. MvC2 for the PS2. At one point, it was selling upwards $80. It had a small print run, was a good game, and the PS2 was the most poplar console. Perfect storm, right? Well, people stopped buying it at that price eventually. GameStop never got the memo. They kept copies at $79.99. And you know what the end result was? Tons of unsold merchandise. Copies of MvC2 sat on shelves for months at a time.

As a regular visitor of nearly every GameStop within a 15 mile radius (that's A LOT in northern NJ) I saw it myself. Recently they readjusted to account for the new market value and it's now not so common to see unsold copies.

So unless GameStop wants to start losing out to Amazon, Ebay, and various other sources (Best Buy is getting in on used games now) they'll have to be competitive.
T-rex Wrote:
TonyTheTiger Wrote:
The people who lose aren't the ones who buy used. The losers are the people who sell used because they have to sell at diminished value to keep competitive in the market since they'll be expected to eat the $10 future cost to the end user.

People who trade games to Gamestop are always the one getting the most ripped off,that's nothing new.


That's not here nor there. You're always a loser when you sell through a middleman like GameStop. You eat some cost for the convenience of not having to do the legwork to sell it direct via Ebay or something. I'm talking sellers in the direct market. GameStop, Ebay sellers, Amazon sellers, flea markets, etc. Those sellers would be eating the cost for the diminished value when they sell to the end user.

Like I said, used car without headlights costs less than used car with them. Seller eats future cost to buyer for new headlights. If the seller refuses to account for the diminished value, their product does not sell. That's economics 101. The exception would be if the seller had a monopoly on the product which GameStop really doesn't. They're the strongest presence but even they sit on tons of unsold merchandise when their prices are out of whack. See: MvC2 and a bunch of other examples.
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queve
03/30/2011 06:07 PM (UTC)
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I misunderstood the article and didn't pay close attention:

Human mistake.

English is not my first language so I'm bound to make those kind of (silly/stupid/lazy) mistakes once in a while, no?

Thanks for explaining though.

*Peace. smile
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TortureLegend
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XBLGT: Canvas of Souls
03/30/2011 06:09 PM (UTC)
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LOL @ T-Rex, just wow.

On the subject at hand, I think it's a great idea, there's a lot of piracy now a days for music, games, and movies which happens A LOT LOT MORE then the purchase of used games. So what if you have to pay $9.99 if you buy the game used and want to play online for more then 48 hours, OH NO, /end game.

This is right up there with how bad Kitana's hair is, or SMOKE'S HAIR, or even HUMAN SMOKE TO BEGIN WITH, or all the CLEAVAGE oh god forbid. /sarcasm. You people that like to nit pick and complain about NRS/WB every move need to chill the fuck out and get a life, in this case, a job.
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Wanderer
03/30/2011 06:09 PM (UTC)
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T-rex Wrote:
People buying a VHS of a movie and watching it however many times they want? Those communist motherfuckers. They should be charged every time they press the play button on their remote!


I was referring to the ability to record media with them. Some could say it was the dawn of digital piracy, but it also brought to the table the topics of lending and rentals, which they don't get any money from either.

T-rex Wrote:
Because there is no way Gamestop would be this nice. They'd still charge you 50$ for it,without giving a shit about you or the fact that you still have to buy a 10$ just to have a complete game.


You don't have to buy used games at Gamestop. In America, at least, there are independent retailers and the advent of Craigslist and social networking makes buying and selling locally much less of a hassle.
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KlTANA
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03/30/2011 06:16 PM (UTC)
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The one thing game companies despise most is..... Game rental companies. In order to secure some revenue, And ad incentive for future purchase. This is their counter to quick rentals and the one time play through.
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MoodyShooter
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Dedicated, hopeless...Li Mei fan.

03/30/2011 06:58 PM (UTC)
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Wow, coming to it late but I guess I'm not going to be playing anybody online unless this game is so ungodly awesome in a non-usual-broken-MK-kinda-way. Kinda lame.
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TortureLegend
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XBLGT: Canvas of Souls
03/30/2011 07:04 PM (UTC)
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The_Truth Wrote:
Wow, coming to it late but I guess I'm not going to be playing anybody online unless this game is so ungodly awesome in a non-usual-broken-MK-kinda-way. Kinda lame.

Uh, what?
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jbthrash
03/30/2011 07:30 PM (UTC)
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I just gotta say that the whole argument of "what about books, movies, and cds that are bought used?" This really isn't a fair comparison, because there is no big store that takes in and promotes the sale of used media more than gamestop. Gamestop is willing to reward customers who buy and sell used games. This is why the game industry is hurting so badly from the used games market. Not to mention that the corporate juggernaut known as BestBuy is getting in on that action as well.

Ultimately I think it's fair to have the free pass codes. A customer who buys a new game should be rewarded for their purchase. When I buy a new cd off of itunes they sometimes give me a digital booklet. If you buy the used CD and don't get the booklet, then do you really have a right to bitch? No.

I do think used sales should still be around. However, I do think that distributors should wait a month or two before they can buy and sell a new release. Kind of like the whole redbox vs blockbuster thing. The used market should still be around, I just think it's bullshit that people feel ript off by not getting their free pass code. The developers (the people who actually make the games we love) are getting screwed and it makes a big difference when a game like Brutal Legend cost millions to make and they only see a marginal profit.
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|CAMK|
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03/30/2011 07:44 PM (UTC)
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fierypyre Wrote:
I'm not surprised but it's still disgusting. Sometimes I think DLC is one of the worst things to ever happen in gaming., when companies don't abuse it it's fine but too many of them pull shitty stunts like this and it just makes me wish DLC was never created.

I'll be buying ithe game new anyway but I do hope this despicable new business practice causes them to lose some profits. It's complete and utter greed.




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