Calling someone closed-minded for their views is hypocrisy, pure and simple.

Now that I have that out of the way, point me to where I said that this is a bad idea. My view on Cyber Sub, as of now, is indifferent. To me, this is just more fan service. A lot of people played the what if card when it came to Sub-Zero being a robot years and years ago, and I see this as NRS acknowledging it. So in this pissing match between you and Shad, I think you're both right, actually. There's a chance that Vogel can make something of this and all will be fine and dandy. I concede that. However, if this is done simply so that Smoke stays human, I'm not sure that I want that (I am a big proponent of Smoke remaining human in this game) at the cost of losing Sub-Zero into the same cyber obscurity that Smoke suffered.

As far as game manuals and cases and such not having characters on them, I know this. It's pretty much common knowledge. Any and all pushing of characters was done via plot devices during the older games, which is why the most important character was Liu Kang for at least the first two games (you could argue that Sindel was the most pivotal character in MK3, but I digress). However, Sub-Zero and Scorpion have become more prominent now than any other character has ever been. There's really no arguing that. They're all over everything MK these days, because NRS knows they're the most popular characters and they want to drive sales. It's a sound business tactic.

Scorpion being the device of the Elder Gods was completely lame, and the usage of Monster was to hide it, I suppose? I can't come up with a logical explanation for that move and I'm glad they did back off, and if anything that sets a precedent here for what happens when you fuck with your money character. I don't condemn it yet, but I'm weary. My judgment is withheld until I see where it goes.

I'm writing this off as another Zebron until some solid evidence arrives.

I don't consider Tekken a good fighting game storyline wise. As you said, the story is retarded... I play MK ALSO for the story, where a game as Tekken becomes boring after some time.

But as I've said numerous of times, people care for different aspects of fighting games. I do like graphics and gameplay, but I like a good storyline even more.

A good story can keep you coming back tis why!

Some of you really need to go outside and get out of the house.

Indeed. ^^

Yeah, the Tekken story is... serviceable at it's best. I would definitely say Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, and King of Fighters are up there with Mortal Kombat in terms of story and with those franchises I do enjoy the story more than the game.

@Jaded, I'm not sure what proof that ending does. Sonya dies in Jarek's ending, Liu Kang dies in like half the endings, Quan Chi kills Baraka and Reiko is Khan. Unless that game is the last word, and it ain't, all that matters is the following games interpretation of the events.

Nowhere in Kitana's MK:DA profile, Konquest or Ending does it say that happened. DA says she allied with the Shokan only. And in DE Goro demands the Centaurs get banished. Doesn't sound like there was any peace at all.

@Mos, you sound like T-Rex. Just let your beloveds go. NRS don't love them like they used to. If it were just fanservice, or just done for a laugh, why would some of the first things revealed about the redone plot have said cyber ninjas were getting shuffled? Remember:

"....the game spans Mortal Kombat 1, 2 and 3, retelling the story with an enlightened Raiden, and he's changing the course of things, so everything you've seen happen before – Liu Kang winning, the guys turning into cybernetic ninjas, are changed around, so you might see a character become cybernetic who wasn't before, and so you see a different version [of events]"

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/109/1098513p1.html

Again, he said this at the games first unveiling. They have been planning it a long time. Its not just "fanservice".

I was thinking and I guess it would be kind of lame, but still sort of keep the story line the same.

What is the younger Subs is turned into the cyber instead of smoke. And what would have been younger subs future in the story line up to MKA, would now become smoke's, except for the whole dragon medallion thing.

Qouted from the MK wiki:
"He would later resurface after Shao Kahn's defeat, during the events of Mortal Kombat 4/Mortal Kombat Gold. Despite having the intent to avenge his losses at the hands of Liu Kang, Goro began to take an interest in the matters of his own race and he joined his fellow Shokan in the war against the Centaurians. Kitana intervened and negotiated both races an uneasy truce and peace accord. Kung Lao interrupted the event because he wanted to kill Goro for vanquishing his ancestor. Kung Lao then slashed Goro's chest which left it scarred. Since it was a ceremonial blow, Kung Lao considered the score settled, the two shook hands. When Shinnok and his legion were defeated and Edenia was once again free, Goro and the Shokan race decided to ally with the Edenians. As a condition in their partnership, Goro signed a peace treaty with the Centaurians.

Years later, during the time of the Deadly Alliance, the united Edenians and Shokans marched on Shao Kahn's weakened army. Goro was exhausted from battle and was struck from behind by Noob Saibot. He was mortally wounded, apparently dying from the injury. So, Princess Kitana held a royal funeral for her former ally. However, Goro was able to survive, being saved from death by Shao Kahn himself, with the promise to return the Shokans to their former glory and the banishment of the Centaurians in exchange for his allegiance. Agreeing to these terms, Goro placed his royal seal on a nearby fallen disfigured Shokan (whom Kitana and the other Shokans found and mistook for him, successfully deceiving them while hiding his defection) and resumed his place at Shao Kahn's side. "

And given how much Boon has jerked us around with information on games pre-release over the years, you bought this straightaway? Bullshit.

Liu Kang winning? I can see that changed. That one I don't mind so much. However, you speak as though I have torches and pitchforks at the ready. Like I said, I'm indifferent to it for the moment. I'll form my opinion when the game comes out.

Okay, that's great but the wiki is written by anybody. The games are written by the canon makers and the games say nothing of the sort. I'm not saying its an impossibility, I'm saying there's no proof. And in MK proof is everything. NRS thrives on the kind of he said she said stuff we spend all day throwing in each others faces. They leave stuff vague just to dick with us all the time. Who beat Onaga? Remember the old Reiko is Khan debate?

Trust me, few follow fighting game stories (or fighting games in general) to the obsessive degree I do. Maybe you should visit my site before you call me out on lore.

@Mos, When has boon ever lied about a story development? When has anyone on the team ever done that?

-_-

There's more to games than just story, you know. You're right, Boon has never lied about the story. However, if he has said anything about the story that wound up being untrue, I'd chalk it up to him knowing less than Vogel and be done with it. I won't call the man a liar because toying with the fans with any information about the game (you know, like unlockables, that aren't story-related) has been his MO from the outset. It's brilliant.

Whatever you say,Quesada.

At this point,I pretty much mathematically proved to you that there is no possible way that anything good can come out of the "YSZ becoming a cyborg" plot. And your only defense is "BUT POSSIBILITIES!1!!!!"

I'm done with this.


There's a couple of reasons for them to go that far back.

1) From a purely story perspective,everything was leading up to an apocalyptic event of some kind ever since Deadly Alliance. Stakes were getting higher,and the power creep was getting out of control. To prevent Armageddon,the underlying cause leading to it had to be nipped in the bud. This requires traveling further back in time,back to the origin of the conflict.

2) To retell the stories of the original trilogy with all the benefits of modern technology and truly do them justice.

3) It gives them an excuse to whore out the classic nostalgia a bit more.



Notice how I didn't put "destroy 60% of their established continuity (including the unquestionably best parts of it) and pretend it never happened" there.



Wow,I think that's the only thing we actually agree on. If there's anyone who can take this bullshit concept and make it work,it's Vogel. I'm very curious to see what he's got.


And stop with this fucking reboot bullshit. Read Boon's interviews,the ones where he says that their main intent was to,first and foremost,properly retell the original stories.

None of this matters. Nothing matters. Certainly not the actions of any MKharacter, since everything is reconned in the following game.

Nothing ever matters. We're all gonna die. Why play MK? Nihlism. Herp. Derp. Dead.

So...one if the hidden fighters gets an achievement called "brotherhood of the shadow". Quan chi is a separate achievement and Noob is already selectable from the start, so who could that be? Sareena? Reiko? NIMBUS???

The achievement is for accessing the fight, not unlocking a character.

So it could just be Noob Saibot.

Noob isn't hidden, he's already on the select screen

That's my point. The achievement isn't for unlocking someone, it's for having the fight with them.

But it says "Discover and fight HIDDEN kombatant"

Yes, the kombatant is hidden on the arcade ladder.

Doesn't mean they're hidden on the select screen.
Look, honestly, if those four fights ARE four completely unexpected hidden characters they had time to make and put in the game, I will be VERY impressed. But given the names of the achievements, I honestly believe they're just Smoke, Jade, Reptile, and Noob fights, designed to recreate the nostalgia of fighting those characters when they were hidden in MK1 and 2.

all hidden combatants should remain hidden until discovered

Well pit master has got to be reptile, which would support your theory about Noob. If it is though, I really hope they bring back his secret stage from mk3, the one where you can barely see him against the darkness

Oh sure, edit your post so no one has any idea what I'm responding to...