(I ahvent through all of this thread lol.)

I think the hidden character thing will be a tribute to the hidden character fights in MK 1 and 2. only thing though is that Noob Saibot in MK2 wasnt available to fight in arcade mdoe it was versus mode.

So although I pray for Sareena, and to a lesser extent, Khamelon I doubt it .

Also, I seriously hope that Cyborg Sub Zeero is a non canon character and only added because of the fans (I still think Cyber Sub is an awful idea tho). Will be interesting to see how he looks tho.

can we just lock this thread? its leaking its butthurt all over my internets


seriously though, some people take this stuff way too far

@Shad
Hold on a second pal, I never tried to prove they aren't widely known or respected. Just that so are other characters. I never tried to tell you Cyber Sub Zero is a guaranteed win, either. Only that there's the possibility of it.

What I have tried to prove is that Scorpion and Sub Zero are not immune to change, and that there is no guarantee change to either (Sub, in this case, as has happened) would be bad. The proof is in the pudding, NRS have criminally dicked with their game before and they've still come up roses. The sales numbers on MKvDC should be fairly indicative of that. No western borne long standing serial has gone more than 10 years without majorly dicking with its principal cast and "mascots". Its a cultural imperative to shake things up because western consumers get bored easy.

In any event, I was re-watching some old videos today and realized this is moot. The Younger Sub Zero of before is already dead. The new Young Sub Zero already hates and is trying to kill Scorpion. He never left the Lin Kuei, so he'll never have to be hunted or rescued by smoke. If he does take over the lin kuei it won't be to spread peace and love and earn Raiden's respect. In all likely hood he probably willfully became cybernetic to get an advantage over his brothers supernatural killer.

I bet in the ending, CSZ is making frozen margaritas for Cyrax and Sektor while flipping burgers over a decapitated scorpion bbq. I can't wait.

it would be equally awesome if a truly lovesick Kuai Liang went insane and built a robot version of his brother so the two of them could be together forever.

... Or scorpion build it , so he can woop it daily.

Important to the plot =/= prominence. I don't know how in the world you have the two confused. Fenix referred to prominence when it comes to marketing, and I would have to agree that prominence is defined by how often a character appears in related media. By that logic, Scorpion and Sub-Zero are obviously the two most prominent characters that the series has to offer, and that is NEVER going to change. Would I place Raiden in the next 3-4 characters after those two in prominence? Sure, that can be argued.

Most important to the plot? Not so fast. In my opinion, at the very least Liu Kang is more important to the plot than Raiden is - he prevents the invasion initially by winning the first MK tournament. Kitana is very important to the plot. So is Sub-Zero. So is Scorpion. I'm not saying those last three are more important than Raiden, but they're certainly others to consider. Whoever is most important to the plot is entirely a matter of opinion.

@MoSeph, read my examples again. Scorpion being "everywhere" did not start until MKvDC. He was prominent in DA and Sub (with just as much baraka) was in DE. Prior to that? "Prominence" is all over. Youtube some old commercials. Check some old instruction manuals on gamedocs and wiki (or check my site) for some title screens. There's generally NO character precedent. Some of the game intros and attract modes don't even feature either of these "main" characters. Again, neither Scorpion nor Sub Zero have ever graced the side of an MK arcade machine.

More importantly, i'm not saying Sub Zero and Scorpion aren't popular. I'm saying other characters are too. Other characters who have all had to endure the sting of a plot or character design shake up. If anything, Scorpion and Sub Zero are all that's left. They tried dicking with Scorpion in MKDE and the Elder Gods angle remember Monster? It was a bad idea and they backed it off, but again, they tried.

So I'm not talking down Scorp / Sub or talking up Cyber Sub. I'm merely illustrating that it is both entirely probable and possibly (keyword) awesome that either of them suffer the same kind of major character shake ups that have plagued "Main" characters since the introduction of fictional media. Especially in this oversaturated era of reboots and reimaginings.

It is closed minded fans like you who are telling me that not only that this is and can only ever be a dumb idea, but also the people who have (in every other regard) impressed us, have some how dropped a catastrophically short sighted deuce on a beloved main character.

Aside; How is Kitana or Scorpion relevant to the plot? Scorpion only mattered between MK4 and DA, and Kitana never mattered. You have Mileena kill her back in MK2, nothing changes at all.

That post was so asinine that I'm almost afraid to ask... But here goes...

What would you rather have him fucking do? What kind of character development would satisfy your undoubtedly sophisticated palate?

Should he become a traveling circus performer? Would that be okay with you?


Exactly.

On one hand,we have 4 games worth of content,intricate continuity and wonderful character development.

On the other hand,we have something that will piss all over that intricate continuity but instead,comforts us a small probability that the new one might possibly NOT completely suck. You know,in theory.

Do you see the problem here?

It's like... It's like I have a bottle of pills in my hand. Whatever disease I might be using them for,they make me feel a hell of lot better so that I may actually enjoy my life.

And you are the shifty fucking salesman who takes my pills out of my hand,throws them away and then tries to sell me a bottle of snake oil. "Hey man,it MIGHT completely cure your cancer,you won't know until you try! Change is good,man!"

Fuck that.

...

Oh god...

I just realized exactly what your line of reasoning reminds me of...






I hate to break it to you,but there's one minor detail you're consistently missing out on.

Not all ideas are created equal.

Shang Tsung and Quan Chi forming the Deadly Alliance and completely reshaping the balance of power in the MK universe? That was a new idea that was good.

Kuai Liang becoming a cyborg? That's a new idea that is bad. Really bad.


I've said it before - for all intents and purposes,the entire premise of this game is a retcon of the events of Armageddon and Armageddon alone. There is absolutely no need to ruin the rest of the storyline along with it. Collateral damage is something that should always be minimized.

When you're renovating your bathroom,it's not necessary to demolish the entire fucking house along with it,now is it?


That's the thing - it doesn't.

You know why I can say that with utmost certainty?

Because the redundancy of another fucking cyborg running around aside,every single thing you can possibly come up with to follow up on Sub's cyberization will be a rehash.

That's the whole reason why Tobias had three cyborgs in the first place.

One volunteers for the cyberization.
One gets pier pressured into it.
One gets turned against his will.

I'm repeating myself again,but every single outcome that can result from this scenario was already covered by either Sektor's,Cyrax's or Smoke's story.

One embraces his new cybernetic body. Free of the restraints and weaknesses of his human form,he becomes exactly what he was created to be - a merciless,efficient killing machine. Also,he essentially becomes a walking Skynet later on,which is AWESOME,but that's beside the point.

One struggles to regain humanity. With the help of his allies,he does so and becomes self-aware.

One tries to get his soul back,but ultimately fails. He goes on to become someone's bitch who does what he's told,like a good little robot.

What else is there to do?

There's literally nowhere else to go for the cyberization plotline. It completely extinguished itself at this point. You're trying to squeeze blood from a stone,dude.

If Cyborg Sub-Zero is going to be a real in-canon character then 2 makes the most sense. It would make sense for the Lin Kuei to experiment the automation process on an already dead member than to risk killing [whether or not the Grandmaster kill Cyrax, Sektor to turn them into Cyborgs is up to personal opinion] their top assassins.

It is Kitana's fault that Shao Kahn's attempt to melt the two realms together is thwarted by convincing Sindel that Kahn is the enemy.

So yes, Kitana matters. Go read some MK lore.

Or, you know, just wait for the new game and draw your own conclusions.

Speaking of secrets, did anyone see the Australian ban report for this game? It confirms a few things like Fatalities for certain characters.

@T-Rex, I said it before, this'll be the last. I understand you're butthurt because the plot you love is never going to be continued, but its never going to be continued. Deal bro.

This isn't even about CSZ, this is about game scope. If MK9 was just a retcon of MKA they wouldn't have placed it 4 games worth of continuity in the past. They would not bother showing us this slice of history if the objective was only to replace a signifigantly later slice of history. That game would be called MKDE-2.

Find a way to drill this into your brain. MK4-DA-DE-A are not going to happen again, not the same way, not with the same characters. That was the whole point of this game. Tis true their may be some MK10 cliff notes on a network share somewhere at NRS, but I can guarantee you it doesn't say "lets just make MK4 with more robots everything else the same".

Cornerstone; You're saying all those guys who previously crafted all those "genius" plots for Sub Zero have now made a shitty one. Why would they do that? Are they trolling you or just retarded or did someone have a good idea? And if they're retarded, then why would you assume anything else they were cooking up for this "reboot" was good idea?

You'll note I've never said "this is whats going to happen with CSZ and its going to be great" well except for that BBQ joke, that would be fucking great. Because I don't know. BUt what I accept and you do not is that Cyber Sub Zero has the potential for an avenue unexplored. You don't see it, you fucking hate it, and thats fine, but thats what change is. Thats what a reboot is, thats what MK9 is. You can rage and kick and scream because the MK4 Scorpion - Sub Zero high five is not going to happen again, but it isnt going to happen again. CSZ or not.

@Jaded, I disagree but I am curious. Please illustrate the fault in my logic.

MK1 - Kitana irrelevant, Kang wins tournament, Kahn outraged.
MK2 - Kitana irrelevant, Kang wins tournament, Kahn outraged.
MK3 - Kitana irrelevant, Kang beats Shao, Kahn is defeated.
MK4 - Kitana irrelevant, Kang beats Shinnok, Quan is sent to Nether
MK5 - Kitana proposes, Kang refuses. Shang / Quan beat Liu et al, Onaga beats them.
MK6 - Kitana irreleavant, who the fuck knows what actually happens cause Armageddon sucks, Blaze arrives.
MK7 - Armageddon happens, Shao / Raiden are two last standing, Shao wins.
MK8 - Reboot.

Exactly where does Kitana matter? She frees Sindel and Edenia, but since Edenia doesn't do anything with their freedom but lose wars and get killed, its frivolous. Great character, yes, but totally irrelevant.

So in your case of scenario, the only characters that are relevant are Liu Kang and the bosses... Yeah, try make a good fighting game out of that.

^THIS.

It's far, *far* too early to declare that this game is a point-for-point remake of MK1-3, or that it is "only a retcon of MKA," as we literally have NO IDEA where this game will end. Tiny changes can cause entire futures to vanish.
Something seemingly small, like Kung Lao winning MKII, could prevent *everything* after MK3 from even happening. You're getting a little ahead of yourselves by proclaiming this game will end exactly where MK3 did, or exactly where Deception did. Such scenarios are unproven, and, IMO, unlikely.

No, I was just illustrating where Kitana comes in. Which is nowhere. A fighting game doesn't need to have a plot at all to be good as far as thats concerned (see: ttt, several kofs, most of street fighter, the vs games, etc)

Lots of guys matter occasionally, and ovbiously everyones got their own shit going on, thats why MKs plot excites me so. Its so multifaceted. But as far as "the plot would never recover if he / she were removed" ie: integral, Kitana is pretty low on the list.

I don't draw conclusions


I paint them.

Aside from the whole "convinces her mother to remember her past, turn against Khan, prevent the merging of the realms, saving all of the Earth, and weakening Kahn so that he could ultimately be defeated, freeing her realm from Kahn's control, then ultimately forging alliances with the Shokan and the Centaurs and making peace between these centuries-long adversaries..." yeah, Kitana hasn't done much at all... except pretty much saving all of Earthrealm by saving her mother in MK3. If it weren't for her, Kahn would still have every soul on Earth in his possession.

Uh, Kitana certainly freed Sindel, and Sindel certainly freed Edenia. But where exactly does that say it helped Earthrealm and its souls at all? Earthrealm got saved when Liu Kang dragon kicked the holy hell out of Shao Kahn, not when Sindel said she wanted a divorce.

I'm also missing the part where it said Kitana made the Centaurs and Shokan be friends. I know she made peace with Goro and the Shokan, but the Centaurs? When the hell did that happen?
In fact, Goro's stupid retcon DE plot says he made Kahn banish the centaurs.

I piss them in snow.

Whauw, you really need to read up on the MK lore...

MK Gold. Kung Lao's ending:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irCdSsmFWKA

You can read up on your MK lore here:

http://mortalkombat.wikia.com/wiki/Mortal_Kombat_Wiki

I'm asking where it says that. You say it happens I say where, you say where, thats how it works. What it says is, Kitana made friends with Shokan, Goro died, Goro didn't die and then made Shokan friends with Shao Kahn again.

Is there an ending or section of a konquest mode I'm missing here?

Not all plotlines have to be relevant or tied inexorably to the main focus. Not unless you want a predeterministic tale with a singular resolution.

Same with human history. Like how decolonization was part of the Cold War era and both superpowers had interest in 3rd world nations, decolonization was not exactly about being a democracy or a socialist republic.

Building blocks, not railways next to each other.

Hm. Lemme rearrange some wording here...



Yes, I believe Tekken is the name of this game. It's quite good and has a large comp scene. Its story is also quite retarded, but who plays Tekken for the story anyway? People shake in their boots about a Zebron in MK, but Tekken has like half a dozen Zebron characters.