That sounds cool, but almost like a recipe for juggles that would be too big. If you hit the opponent at their highest point with a move with quick recovery, then wouldn't you just be able to hit another couple of jabs when they reach level two (or whatever) and relaunch them for more damage?

I guess if there was some sort of system to escape juggles, or increase the distance between the characters mid juggle (hitting back as you get hit, almost like a just frame, increasing the distance between characters when hit), then it might work. But then again, if you had somebody at their highest point in the air, you may have time to walk forward and relaunch, unless juggles were all a lot lower, which means the lowest point in the juggle would be very, very low, and that the highest point would be high-ish, but not so high that you have enough time to dash/walk in and continue the juggle.

Add walls to mix, and you have a whole new set of problems, because the way MK's wall system works, you'd just be able to launch your foe near a wall, then keep relaunching them up into the wall for crazy damage.

All things that could be worked out I guess, but it seems like... uh... how to explain... Take T4 Lee for example. Imagine if he could just do an infinite 1,2, f, N... 1, 2, f, N... 1, 2, f, N (etc) juggle because there were levels, and when the second jab connected, it would shoot your opponent from say, level 2, to a higher level, which would give him time to dash/walk forward and connect with another 1, 2.
See what i'm sayin'?

It still sounds cool anyway.

Hmmm, OK an idea to fix the problem.

Using a Tekken-ish style juggle system = no double launchers that throw the opponent very high like in MKD.

Another launcher attack while juggling will just knock the opponent a little higher and further away than a normal attack.

For example, you would only be able to connect with 2 launcher attacks if you do them in a row. If you try a 3rd one, it will miss.

1) The high bounce = level 6 is not a very big difference from the normal bounce. It's just a little bit higher than normal to allow for a high hit in a normal or custom link combo to just connect. Not a custom juggle like jab, dash, jab.....


This makes it so you don't have time to dash in again and throw a jab. It has to be a fast link. If you dash in they will be too low and far away to hit high or med. You could dash in and do a low attack though.

Lee Cholan's 1,2, step,1,2..... would still be a problem.

The bounce height could lower if you keep using the same attack = It would change from a Tekken bounce to a VF bounce. You can only use the same attack 2 times during 1 juggle. On the 3rd hit, it will be a VF bounce.

That would allow Lee to finish the combo with his kicks and still get at least 6 punches in.

2) Against a wall, like in Tekken 4, you can block wall combos and tec. roll out of them. I'd adjust the angle bounce off the wall though so you do more of a VF style bounce instead of the T4 bounce. To help get rid of infinites.

When you iron out the kinks, I quite like that system. That would probably give more freedom as far as juggling goes, than any other game to date.

More stuff....

Would anybody like to be able to defend more while lying on the ground?

I'm thinking maybe a well timed roll could automatically avoid attacks.

A quick side roll like in DOA3 could work like the side step in VF4.

If timed just right, it would be safe.

You could just tap up or down + BLK to do it.

If you don't press block you won't stand up for a while like in SC2.

Some specific attacks for certain characters could be a reversal, parry with legs, throw like Brad Wong in DOA3, Teleport, use special moves like fireballs as stand up attacks. Like Shang Tsung does in the MKD intro.

I think we already mentioned rolls with rising attacks before. Man the thread is kinda long. It'll be truely hard to keep the thread fresh with original ideas by the time MK7 rolls around.

Konquest with an Unreal Engine?

I'm not talking about rolls with wake up attacks.

I'm talking about a late tec. roll like the same way the side step works in VF4.

If you time it right, almost every attack will miss you.

The point of it is to save you from ground damage when you are knocked down by an attack that doesn't allow you to tec. roll or if you just missed the tec. roll or didn't feel like doing it.


It's just another defensive option.

What if they had an option for turning juggles on or off?

You could have a juggle system like in street fighter 3 mixed with old style MK special move juggles = OFF.

Then have a Mix of a Tekken MKD and VF4 juggle system for the ON mode.

It could give them a way to experiment with a new system without freaking out the fans.

I've been wondering what a game like Tekken or VF would be like if they didn't rely so much on air juggles.

instead they could have more stun and set up moves for ground combos that can replace juggles to an extent.
Maybe you can make the opponent dizzy for a little bit allowing you to do juggle type combos while both fighters are still standing. Like the Critical status in DOA3.

It could also be something to make the game more unique for a complex / deep 3D fighter if that were to happen.

That one change would make the game seem more like a kung fu movie than a "video game".

One thing I thought would be cool would be if somebody was in their hand-to-hand fighting style and was fighting somebody in their weapon fighting style, they'd have the ability to do a special disarming throw (like grabbing and twisting and arm to make the opponent drop their weapon and stuff like that)...

But everybodys disarming move would be unique...

For example...

-------------------

Sub-Zero would freeze the opponent's limb(s) and break it (them) on his knee, causing the opponent to drop their weapon...

Scorpion would have a long range disarming move where he shoots his spear at the opponent and the spear would wrap around their weapon, then Scorpion would yank his spear and pull the weapon away from the opponent...

Reptile would have a disarming move like Scorpion's, but instead of a spear, he'd use his tounge...

Ermac/Kenshi could pull the weapon(s) away with his telekinetic powers...

Drahmin would just smack the weapon away with his iron club...

-------------------

Stuff like that...

I love that idea.



They could have it so the opponent starts with the hand and weapon styles.

If the weapon gets taken away then they only have the hand style. Either of the 2 fighters can pick up any weapon from the floor. Or if they have a weapon steal move, they can take the weapon from the opponent like Quan Chi in MK4 or by a reversal like something Jackie Chan would do.

I think, jumps should go over fireballs like before.

Some fighters like Rayden or Fujin could have a super jump or a double jump.

Every fighter could also have a hop = like a DOA jump.

Hop attacks could be different from a jump.

A back hop would be fast, so it could be used as a back dash that avoids low attacks.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Escapes during slower combos.


I'd like for evasion type moves like a side ways cart wheel could be done in the middle of blocking a combo as an escape move. Like if you know the opponent is going to do a sweep, you tap 3+4 and that would make you do a cart wheel leaving you either on the side of or behind your opponent.

Moves with autoblock properties should also be used as combo breakers.

Mini game idea = Free for all.

It would be like an adventure game like Onimusha or Ninja Gaiden.

Not a full adventure game, but a small fighting game that would work similar to the Unreal tournament or That Onimusha fighting game.

It could be mixed with something like power stone.


You could choose your fighter and their skills.

Combos
special moves
super moves
power ups
costumes

Fighters would have special moves specially for this mode.
The controls would be like in Rise to Honor, the Jet Li game. So you can attack in any direction and make the fights look pretty complex.

super moves

Double jump

air dash

run on walls

off wall attacks

air control

juggles would be different = like in SC2.

You could use objects in the environment = throw a rock, grab a weapon, throw a chair, throw one of the KO’d fighters. You could also throw characters in to other fighters with throws and strong attacks.

You might be able to attack in 2 directions at once, or do team attacks like in the DOA Tag mode.

Air combos like in Ninja Gaiden

The stages would be like something you would see in Power stone or in Smash Bros Milee. Where characters can jump to different platforms or whatever they could also be hazardous.

I think it would be fun to have something like that.

That’s the type of Mini game I know I’d play.

There could be an adventure type mode for this mini game also, like Tekken Force but like if you were playing through a level or Ninja Gaiden.

Well I mentioned the jump ideas before. Thinking alike isn't bad though.

Disarming is a great idea. Most original idea here in a while too.

Oh, also different attacks can recover or end up in different positions.

standing
crouching
special stance, sway, teleport
facing away
side step, quick dash or crouch dash
air born or jump
Laying down

Lets keep this thread going.... This thread deserves a sticky for the the size alone, but we know it wont get it...

I've been pretty barren when it comes to ideas lately. Considering HDTran, who started this thread, isn't coming around anymore and that maybe six or seven of us are left to keep this alive isn't an easy task. Looking through these pages there have been numerous people who've come and gone and most have given something meaningful. This thread alone could be used to design a game.

Too bad no one from Midway will ever see it. But I suppose that really dosen't matter, at least this thread is serving as the only real center of creativity on the MKD board. It's certainly more gratifying than reading about Goro's and Kahn's crappy MKD bios.


Props to Bleed for basically picking this whole thing up where HDTran left off.

I was playing Tekken 5 today and I pulled off a Chicken for the first time.


Right after, I realized how stale the animation for it looks. You just shove the opponent back and jab them in the face.

If they have Reversal Reversals (Chickens) in future MK games or even in future Tekken games. I'd like for them to look dynamic. Like a normal reversal or throw would look instead of just a jab.

-----------------------------------------------

What about adding special properties to normal combos and single strikes on normal hit if you input the commands with just frame timing.

Benefits of this could be....

1 ) Cause more damage on normal hit and extra damage on counter hit.

2 ) Some 2-4 hit combos can become unbreakable. They might cause an extended stun for custom combos and slower combos to connect.

3 ) Can give you frame advantage or quicker recovery.

4 ) Some delayable combos can be done in the same way, you tap the button for 1 frame and the same hit can still be delayed and will still have the extra properties from the just frame input.

5 ) Can effect the way your opponent bounces during a juggle.

perfect timing = reward

In response to the multiple reversals: That could be a cool way to implement certain special moves. Like Scorp's flip-kick, or Kano's eye laser, or (insert character)'s (insert move).

Anyone up for dynamic music? Like when the momentum meter of two characters starts to pick up then the speed picks up. If the reversal-reversal idea is implimented, the music picks up.

Yeah it sucks this thread won't get a sticky. It actually breaks apart MKD(A) system with logic that can't be argued with. I do think its sad that MKD was not in terms of DOA3 & SC at least in terms of visuals and some gameplay.

The next conquest might be kickass with the unreal engine, but it will feel dated on the next gen systems.

Boon is just repeating MK all over though. MKDA was more like MK with 1 fatal and a more reasonable scale. MkD is supposed to be MK2 with the darkness and 2 fatals. MK7 will be like MK3, huge system rehaul. It was even mentioned in the fight night transcript. So I'm guessing run will make it in. The fatality dismemberment system will become better, and god knows what he'll do the dial combos (if combos were just introduced into MK3, something else will show up).

Some regular attacks could have priority over other regular attacks.

For example, you can't stop a flying kick with a jab.

Some attacks could turn in to power blocks against certain attacks.

For example. Jin in Tekken 5. d/b+2, 2, 3 is a combo that goes....Right hook to ribs, R. chop to face, L. soccer style kick.

The first punch d/b+2 ( R. hook to ribs ) could become a power block against med height attacks. It would cause light damage and give you frame advantage with a light stumble depending which attack your opponent threw.

This move can also be done in the middle of blocking a combo as a combo breaker. Only against med to slow combos though. If it's too fast then you will take a hit.

If you do a just defend = it will slow the opponent's combo down a little, like after Feng Wei's parry or the parry in street fighter 3. Then you can throw the d/b+2 against any combo to power block the next med hit, then do whatever you want.


A back hook kick would have priority over a jab. It could still make both fighters stumble a little though. A stronger hit could make one of them stumble and the other fall down.


-----------------------------------------------------------------

I'd also like to be able to throw my opponent when they are stunned.

I was playing T5 again today and I was in a very close match I was Feng the other guy was Paul. I had him against the wall and I stunned him. He was in a side ways stun and I tried to grab him but my hands went right through Paul. The opponent recovered while I whiffed my throw and killed me. I was like nooooo WTF!!! That 1 throw would have won me the match.

So I want to be able to throw my opponent during any stun or collapse animation. Like in MKD but the throws can be escaped and the stuns can be avoided like a tec. roll.

How to escape a stun= like a throw escape, you have a few frames to tap block after you take the stun hit.

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Combining the ideas I posted before in to 1 juggle.

A quick recap of what means what....

: = Just frame = do the attack the second the previous one connects or tap the button for just 1 frame before the previous one connects.

A just frame could add extra damage to a hit, a longer stun, or make a combo unbreakable.

// = Custom link = using a max of 3 link levels like the super meter in STFA3. You can link "some" attacks that normally wouldn't. Like the combos in KI2.

(Jb2) = (Juggle bounce height level) = Level 1 is like a VF bounce = (jb1), Level 2 is a Tekken bounce = (jb2). A bounce is normally like in MKD or Tekken = 2 levels / high bounce, level 2 being 50% of the way up. Level 3 and 4 would be on the way down. If you hit an opponent before they are half the way up on the bounce, they won't bounce as high = 1+2=3 If you hit them at the high half of the bounce, they will bounce higher = 2+2=4.

Hitting the opponent at different height levels can change the way they bounce. Like if you delay a bit and hit them at the top of their bounce, they will bounce slightly higher.
JD = Just defend = tap block right when the opponent attacks like a parry and it will slow them down a little but won't stop combos. Sort of like a parry in stf3.
Blk = Block
oki. = Hitting the opponent when they are on the floor.

Note = This is using a button lay out like MKD or Tao feng = where you can do the same command for the same move whether you have your right foot forward or left foot forward.

Now the juggle-----------
It starts off with a "Just Defend" Let's say the opponent's 4th hit in their combo is a med punch or kick.
So here goes.
Using T5 jin as a base.
Blk, Blk, JD, d/b+2 :2 // f, d, d/f+1,...1, b, f+2, (jb2) 1,...d/b+2, 2 // f, d, df+4, oki = d+4

The just frame d/b+2 :2 makes the opponent stun a little longer, like a counter hit.
The last hit is not guaranteed, they could tec. roll after the sweep.
A variation in the last part of the juggle against a wall------------------
Blk, Blk, JD, d/b+2 :2 // f, d, d/f+1,...1, b, f+2, (jb2) 1,...d/b+2, 2 (wall stun) // 1+2, oki = d+4
1+2 is Jin's new auto 3 punch combo you can see it at the official site. Go here and watch the movie on the right under jin's story
Another variation against the wall-------------------
Blk, Blk, JD, d/b+2 :2 // f, d, d/f+1,...1, b, f+2, (jb2) 1,...d/b+2 // f, d, d/f+2 (wall stun), u/f+1+2, oki. = d+4
throw the opponent during the wall stun. Not guaranteed, the opponent can escape the throw.

Another variation against a wall with a built in power up.------------

Blk, Blk, JD, d/b+2 :2 // f, d, d/f+1,...1, b, f+2, (jb2) 1,...d/b+2 // f, d, d/f+2 (wall stun), 1, 3, :2, 1, :4, d+1+2 lingering soul power up, oki = d+4

The just frames during the Kazama style combo 1, 3, 2, 1, 4 make the combo unbreakable. If you don't do the just fames, the combo is blockable.

The f, d, d/f+2 punch makes the opponent spin, so if you are at the right distance from the wall. Your opponent could slam in to it face first with their back to you. If this happens, you can do the Kazama style combo like normal, It's guaranteed.

The power up makes the oki = d+4 cause a little more damage.

Bump, can't let this one go just yet.


By the way, if someone doesn't know. Heihachi Mishima has been released at the T5 arcade machines.Screen shots
A ton of people thought he wouldn't be in the game because in the trailer, he is blown up and Raven says, "Heihachi Mishima is dead".

But turns out he's not.

Sounds like Tekken pulled a "Mortal Kombat" ...



Anyways, This isn't really gameplay related, but I was thinking of an adventure mode that's kind of like Konquest but instead of playing as Shujinko, you'd play as whatever character you picked. There would also be a lot of fighting in it. The fighting part could be like it is in Iron Pheonix. (Except it wouldn't be just weapons)

You could also collect money and use it in the adventure mode to buy clothes, hairstyles, colors and other stuff for your character (like in Tekken 5) You could also be able to collect experience points and upgrade your character's Power, Speed, Defense, ect...

But now that I think of it, it could be a great game on it's own...

Just a thought though...

I don't remember if I already posted this but.

Some attacks can cause block stun to lead to other attacks before the opponent can recover from the stun.

For example, Liu Kang's flying kick could lead to a fireball. Blocking a flying kick will make the opponent stumble back. The opponent can still recover in time to block the follow up, but they don't have as much time to do anything else like attack, jump or maybe even side step.

If you do the flying kick near a wall, if the opponent blocks it, they will still get slammed in to the wall and take damage from the wall. That can leave them in a short stun where you can follow up with anything.


A lot of everly powerful attacks can work like this.

It’s the same frame advantage and block stun idea from other games, but the wall damage and stun is new.

Would this be good or cheap?


Maybe it should just be limited to certain attacks, like the flying kick or rayden's superman.

An escape for the wall stun and damage would be a tec. roll like in Tekken 4.

Also if you miss a flying kick near a wall, you will kick the wall or punch it, not keep flying towards it when you are up against it.

Good idea. I remember this when fighting the bosses in the MK3s. Also if near a level fatal, it could be possible to fall into it. Yet a trade off, if the person circles around, you can go flying into the deathtrap. Minor thing though, if the death trap is executed at the end of round 2 during finish him/her it should say fatality.

Anyone up for making weapons upblockable unless you have a weapon out? Blocking a blade with an arm?

Oh and I'm all for taunts for each player and entry animations/trash talk for players. It kinda can give us a feeling off the old vs screens. Off course some dialouge should vary from character to character. So putting Subs against Quan-Chi would be something more specific to the story, and Mileena vs Kitana would have something specific. Kinda like the DOA3 intros.

During sweeps, the opponent should have the ability to stay down, and rise at will, possibly with an attack.

On a new gameplay idea. First work on the dolby digital in the games and get better separation. Then have a fighter whose projectiles can attack from the sides off screen or front of the screen. So listen to the speakers, if your rear speakers go, then you know the rear projectile is coming. Now not everyone has a dolby digital setup, so I came up with a simple solution. HAH HAH HAH no err I mean then the left and right speakers will be used. Might make a boss very interesting.

Anyone up for a boss that can multiply and tag team you for certain moves?

What if they had the hand to hand fighting separate from weapon fighting.

Like before you fight you choose to use weapon combat or empty hand combat.

It could be like 2 games in 1.

Or they could do something like what Namco has with Soul Calibur and Tekken.


Have empty hand MK then a separate MK game that's weapon based.

They would make twice as much money that way and I'd still love both games.