I can't stand how you can attack legs but it can't be escaped or reversed. If I were in video game land and I were being juggled by the opponent hitting my legs I would wanna twist my body out of that situation, since I'm defying gravity as it is. I can't stand how you can't do crap in Tekken 5 when someone is juggling you with dudes like Hwoarang and Baek. Same in MK, where are air blocks and air throws/reversals? Well there isn't much air game anymore in MK because the jumps are too short. Deception should have had large classical jumping with little flip noises like old MK!

Soul Calibur has air control when you are getting juggled.

It makes a lot of juggles miss.

I'd like to see some air reversals too while getting juggled. It could be punch or kick reversals or tight timing for it. So it doesn't make juggles useless.

There could be juggle escapes like Scorpion could do his telepunch.

Rayden could teleport.

Liu Kang could do a drop kick like Shun Di's u/b+blk+k in VF4, or Eddy Gordo’s ff+4, 4 in Tekken Tag.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you for once Bleed. Having a separate weapon based setup feels too much like SC.

Though and I think I mentioned this before.

2 fighitng styles per character, which can be trigged like it is now. Combine with a command that brings out the weapon kinda like MK4. Of course weapons shouldn't be able to be knocked out on a simple punch, but something more powerful of course. I'd love to see weapons can only block weapons.

Oh and another gameplay idea.
Scorpion's spear needs to be more dynamic and powerful. Blocking with a weapon, Scorpion can actually pull the weapon away. Then there is the standard comehere, but lets vary it up. Chest and lower body. If fallen body attacks are implimented, Scorpion can trip you up with his spear, then whip you with the spear ala his new rope dart style. Of course now to make things interesting, the spear takes a while to launch, and on command, Scorpion takes a step back like he does in the movies. So you can use this to your advantage. If you see someone going for a jump kick, do the spear move, and Scorpion will take a step back and automatically spear the person. On top of it, I'd love to see a fake spear move. He does the stepping back, so to maybe throw the opponent off. Heck I'd love to see fakes for everyone.

No one has ever thought of that before, fake moves to setup vulnerability. I pat my self.

Some one should have a head butt move that can be used to block high punches or kicks.

If you block a punch with it, It would cause the opponent to go in to a stun like their hand hurts.

If you block a kick, you get some frame advantage.


The fighter would be bald. Maybe a demon with small horns or a bony head.

The move would be very fast, like Ganriu's new head butt in Tekken 5 that looks like whiplash. I think it's b+1+2.

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There could also be some attacks that track by changing the direction the limb moves to by 45*. Like if you throw a straight right punch, and your opponent is in front of you, it will come out straight forward like normal.

If The opponent side steps to your front, the same right punch will come out but change direction 45* towards the opponent.

If the opponent side steps to your back side, the punch will come out straight like normal.

man, I wish they had a drawing board on these forums so we could make quick sketches to explain stuff real quick.

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If MK was set so you can only block a weapon with another weapon. Every body would always be in weapon stance because the empty hand stance would be too dangerous = you can't block.

A better idea would be to...
1) just leave it how they have it now.
2) Have evasions for blocking weapons instead of using their arms = sways, flips....
3) Have free hand and weapon combat be separate like Soul Calibur and Tekken. Could be 2 games sold separately.

I'd be happy with any of the 3.

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Fake moves would be pretty cool. They could have some of the fake outs go in to a special stance.

Like he could do the step back, move his hands like he's going to throw the spear, but then the animation blends in to a special stance, or different attack like a punch or kick.

Hmm I can see your point on staying in the weapon stance too long when people change to weapons, but I still hate blocking a sword with the hand. So gotta balance this area out.

Take away moves would be good. The fighter that has his weapon taken away would be vulnerable for a few seconds.

Weapon's take more damage, but you can take more damage when you hold them, like in the game now.

Simple blocks can't work against weapons, breakers won't work either. In fact breakers needed to be worked on, but we mentioned that before.

Certain fighters have various types of weapons, varying in speed, length and power and ability to hold when hit. Some fighters shouldn't even have weapons at all. They should have a 3rd fighting style. Certain fighters couldn't lose their weapons like Baraka, Scorpion and Sub-Zero. Some fighters though could have two weapon styles. Scorpion could use twin kitana swords, and rope dart spear. Subs could either have ice daggers or ice sword.
Of course to not make it too crazy, people with unlimited weapons can have their weapon use limited if a certain weapon block is done. So If Baraka goes for a stab at the legs and Liu does his flying up and stomp on the hand, Baraka would lose use of his hands for a few seconds! Try to grab Scorpion's spear in mid air, and his hand will be useless for a bit.



On the headbutt idea, give it to BoiRaiCho(he'll be too drunk to feel it), Kano/Kabal (metal side), or Mileena (she can bite).

i think weapons should be thrown out all together, very unrealistic, pulling a weapon out of thin air, it was discussed during mk4, anyway, definitly a 3rd fighting style, and possibly 4th, and so on, replace throw with reverse style switch, add more depth to these fighters, and onto breakers, leave the 3, but for each round, not match, as well as add manual combo breakers, but they are more or less not combo breakers, just move interupters, the only example off the top of my head i could give of a single button being broken is Scorpion's 3 in Hapkido, because it hits twice, that second hit should be able to be broken in a manner just like killer instinct, example, back forward kick, and create a reversal like pause ( mkda ) and shove ( mkda ), but basically just killer instinct...

It'd have to be something faster than b, f+attack to break Scorpion's 3 in Hapkido.

The move is very fast, so I think something like what they have now = tap f+Blk.

Or just tap Block by it self to do a just frame block.

You need something very fast like 1 input to break a fast combo like that.

I've thought it would be interesting to have a character created that would have his weapon and unarmed fighting stance in a combined manner. For instance, take a dagger, it would be held in a guarded position in hand, normal punches would be fist attacks, a strong jab however would be a blow to the face with the dagger. The characters fighting style would be designed in such a manner that actual dagger attacks should fall in at the end of a combo or mid combo. It would be predominantly fisted and kick attacks, with the dagger being a complementary tool during the attacks.

Another point, I'm sorry if this was mention before or if it is possible, but to allow breakers to open up an opponent (berhaps stun or pop up) in such a way that it would allow a combo to follow through.

It would be totally possible and very useful to have breakers like that. As long as they aren't overly easy to do like the ones in MKD.



A fighter with a knife would be kool. He'd be like a soldier. Like Snake from Metal Gear 3, or It could be like Kano from the MK1 movie.

but just like u said, too easy, and it would be if it were forward+attack, thats what u gotta love about killer instinct, the breakers were somewhat hard to execute, and i was using scopions move as an example, but i mean more like killer instinct, 3 hits plus, just an example, would probably ruin the whole system, but the more hits u add, the less damage.. plus maybe u can make scorpions attack 3 hits? noone really has it, so it probably wouldn't fit in, if u think about it, there is a manual combo breaker in MKD, in between styles during a combo, u can attack them, or can u?, i know the computer does it all the time, and i know ive done it before on them, not really hard, just awkward, because deceptions gameplay is too fast, if there was a meter, ( like the run meter ), that would give you only a certain amount of strength, ( like the run meter ), you know, that could have been good, or not, anyway, maybe if there were more lifebars, then that would equal a breaker at the end of one if u were getting pummeled and would make for long, more thought out matches, ( like max damage from mk4 ) and more action, guessing 3 lifebars..

but the idea would be to make that scorpion move hard to break also bleed, then again, slowing it down a tad, which i wouldn't like, : ) or making it possible to hold down the button, and do back, forward, release, like the fatality's in mk4, but the idea would be to make it hard, and to force an opponent to use different techniques, ( one hit, leading into 3 would be unbreakable, definitly gotta have that ) and more combos within styles, so if both opponents were going in for a hit at the same time, but one does it a tiny bit sooner, u would have already pressed that button down, and hold it, and do back and forward to complete the counter, maybe depedning on punch or kick.

a little more on the breaking, if u were to leave the speed at which it is, make it so the faster u input the combo, the harder it is to break, so who's ever quicker gets the move off first, no matter how fast it appears on screen actually, a little advanced, but the game must move forward, as it has.

another area is the time from block to attack, if these were added, this would have to be freed up some more, and make low hits much more quicker, as well as the ability to block ( and predict ) them. also, make moves like scorpions 3 in hapkido, blockable high or low, which i also wouldn't like, but theres too many opportunitys in MKD, maybe the idea should be to get in only few, ( depending ) and let the little damage off blocks do the rest,u absolutly cant hold block a whole match and expect to win, im sorry ( for all you turtle-haters) or just make it quicker for low attacks while blocking for better poking, and more moves like hellfire to resist constant low attacks except make them easier to execute, but not so frequent like the breakers, add another meter. or make harder when at low health, even a move like scorpions spear can be broke, 1 hit through the skin, one hit out, ( and alot more gory looking )

but i think weapons would only be good if u were looking at blood loss, a move may not take off so much, but inflict a considerable amount to your special meter if thats what u wanna call it, thats a definitly a good way to keep people remained to their fighting stances, moves like scorpions spear would little by little make u lose more blood, so even if your caught with it early in the match, it might come back to haunt u later. maybe make the special meter capable of regaining life at a considerable cost. make projectiles do more damage to your special meter than your health, depending

as well as adding so much to the game, more rounds wouldn't be a bad idea too, i would imagine 9 rounds, 5 wins, no clock. MAYBE different characters after 3 rounds of loss, to emphasize mortal kombat


the knife thing is a good idea

just random ideas from a decent mk / ki player

Yeah! Thanks, ~Crow~, for stickying this thing. We owe you one.

Damn,finally a sticky.Much respect and thanks to the mod who has done it.

Finally STICKY POWER! MKO cares.

Anyone up for only allowing weapons to people who have weapons visible on them (like Scorpion). I'm sure with the new systems, polygon count and memory will allow for weapons to stay attached to the body and be removed. If this is done, but vary the way the weapon can be removed. A simple remove may take a while, but like in MK4, integrate them into a combo they might come out faster. Kenshi could have a quick defensive move if his kitana is attached to his back more ninjaesque style.

Subs of course would have an animation of forming the daggers or sword. So a burst or energy kinda like the move could be an option, a simple forming, or a midair formation pushing himself off the ground into the air.

Awesome, thanks for the sticky!



Having some fighters with weapons and some without could be interesting.

Here is how I'd have it....

Fighters would only have 1 style. That 1 style could be a hybrid of several styles.

Someone like Scorpion could have a blend of an empty hand style or Hybrid style and a weapon style as 1 style.

The same way Lei Wulong changes styles in Tekken 5.

Or how yoshimitsu has free hand attacks and weapon attacks in 1 style.


Weapons would do more damage, but other fighters would be stronger to make up for the lack of weapon power.

They could have longer juggles or just stronger attacks.


Imagine Scorpion doing a combo, then pulling the weapon from his back in a smooth motion to continue the combo.

He could have some attacks that if you hold the last button he would go in to a weapon stance. Like how Ivi goes in to special stances if you hold a button in SC2.

The same thing could happen while using a weapon. Hold the last attack and he goes in to an empty hand style.

It could also be just part of the combo, no tricks. You just do the combo and it switches from an armed style to a free hand style.

Scorpion could even have 3 or more stances.

1-4 Free hand stances maybe more or less depending on his design.
1 or several stances could be with his sword.
1 or several stances could be with is spear. He could do moves like IVY using a rope dart.

OMG I can see it in my head.

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Another idea that came to mind when playing Tekken 5 today.


I was using Whoarang and if his d/b+4 get's blocked, you go in to a block stun. Like when Paul’s d+4 get's blocked in Tekken Tag.

(Edit: What's up with these extra letters that appear by them selves? I write Paul's and I get like 5 extra A's in there. I deleted all of them but some are still there)

What if you could do a power up and that would make it so you don't get a block stun when you normally would.

The power up doesn't have to look like a normal power up. It could, but it could also be an Ali shuffle, an extra animation after an attack, a taunt, an auto power up on a parry.

It could also be an Adrenalin rush or Rage power up.

You would taunt the opponent to hit you, like sometimes boxers do. "hit me, hit me"

If they hit you with a punch or kick to the head, you recover very fast and are powered up for a little while.

I've never seen that before in a game.

Except for dulley in street fighter 3 = the cross counter, but that's different.

I don't know exactly how much homogeny is good and when it crosses the line. Every fighting game has some homogenous systems. If one character holds back to block then so does everyone. Jumping is done the same and all characters are affected by the same physics. Imagine how a fighting game would work if you took Akira from VF, Kazuya from Tekken, Scorpion from Deception, Kilik from Soul Calibur, and Hayabusa from DOA. They're all in the same game and play according to the exact same engine and physics from their respective sources. What this means is that while playing Kazuya you'd have to hold back to block, won't have air control, and have four attack buttons each being assigned to a limb while Kilik has a block button, air control, and vertical, horizontal, and kick attack buttons. Aside from the fact that the balance would probably be horrendous (assume slight tweaking was done to fix any glaring problems) is that technically better? Would it be good for characters to play so unbelievably different that they feel like they're from different games or does that go beyond a reasonable level of variety? Capcom tried something similar to this with Capcom Fighting Evolution and it had questionable results. How much diversity is too much?

I think as long as it's not giving one fighter a drastic advantage over another, it's ok to have very different fighters. Not to the point where they have different controls though, it could be done but would be a mess.

You can already use weapons against empty hand in MK, so it's not a big difference. IMO.

They just have to balance things logically.

If weapons are too over powering, lower their potential and adjust the other fighters with more useful special moves and longer combos ect.


For another example, look at Heihachi on the PS2 version of SC2. He’s one of the strongest fighters in the game and he doesn’t have any weapons.

It can be done.

Well of course diversity is good as long as their is a common ground between all the characters. A good fighting engine is just not one of complexity but one of a strong base that along with various difficulties, possible to win a little. Yet there should be a diverse cast and not just clones of fighters. Fighting system's should be complex enough to make it possible to make it through difficult situtations.

All of my recommendations are feasible, and could be coded for everyone. I just don't give examples for everyone for sake of time. Somethings that seem individual are in fact just different ranking systems for the same property (starting to think like a programmer again).

MK's current system is very unbalanced and sometimes some physics are just downright horrible.

On another note, I metioned this before, downloadable content for patches. Boon still thinks hes programming for arcades, and with patches, he'll get the gameplay cleaned up, or show how shoddy his team is if he releases a lot of patches. Good old post 666.

lol this thread got stickied....I don't believe it.

There may be hope for this site and the MK community yet...

There could be different types of launchers.

A weak and fast launcher would do a low launch.

A slower or risky launcher would launch higher.

This would make you end up with different types of juggle combos.

High floaters or low floaters.

You can do a low floater off a high launch but you can't do a high floater from a low launch.

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I'd like for there to be moves that you can only do on a counter hit, or extra animations that happen on a counter hit. Like King in T4 and T5, his ff+4 kick on counter hit goes in to a throw automatically.

Some fighter could link a special punch or kick to some other attack or a special move on counter hit.

Someone could do a Knee or punch to the stomach. If it hit's as a counter the opponent will bend over stunned gasping for air. Then your guy will do a powerful hammer elbow strike to their spine making the opponent fall to the ground hard. Like what bison did to Ryu in the stf2 animated movie.

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Another move from that movie that would be cool is the counter attack Ryu did to Fei long. Fei long threw a kick and Ryu trapped his foot between his elbow and Knee. Then Fei long stumbled back and was limping for a while.

The move would look like a stepping forward right knee strike to the stomach.
If the opponent throws a Med Punch or Kick while you are doing this move, the animation will change slightly to a trap = touches his R. elbow to his R. knee trapping the opponent’s foot in between.

It only counters Med punches and kicks, normally it’s like a knee strike and pushes the opponent back.

If you counter a Punch, the opponent will have a short painful stun animation. They could grab their forearm like it hurts.

Secondary effect of the punch counter could be block damage or more block stuns, maybe even a guard break like in STFA3.

If you counter a Kick, the opponent will be stunned and will limp for a while. Like when you have a broken leg in Tao Feng.
Secondary side effects of the kick counter could be that it makes them loose balance more easily and they will fall more often. So you can come up and kick them while they are down.

I'd love Raul Julia as an hidden character. Every so once a while he could yell out "LIKE LIGHTNING"

hey guys

if anyone in the chicago area is down for some Tekken 5 when it releases, just message me aiight?

Hell yeah!!!!

How about next Saturday or Sunday?

Yes! Congratulations on getting this thread stickied, whoever did it.

http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?id=40406
It didn't take very much work since ~Crow~ is a very cool guy. The credit belongs to him for seeing this thread for what it is and HDTran for making it in the first place. I'd also say bleed deserves credit for keeping it alive for so long.

The throws in MK7 need to look like real throws from those martial arts.

The throws in MKD look nothing like what a throw would be using that martial art.

Scorpion = 2 punches to the stomach then a knee to the face???? It looks totally made up.


He should do some kind of complex grapple then stab the opponent like 3 times with his spear.

Same with all the other fighters, give them some style.